MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	""
Date:	23 Jun 2005 05:55:43 AM
Object:	MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE
For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005
Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org
AMERICANS UNITED WELCOMES AIR FORCE REPORT ON RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT
ACADEMY
Air Force Officials Must Follow Up To Ensure Climate Is Changed At Military
Institution, AU's Lynn Says
Americans United for Separation of Church and State today welcomed a U.S.
Air Force task force report addressing religious bias at the Air Force
Academy in Colorado Springs as an important first step toward resolving the
problem - but the group says more work needs to be done.
At a Pentagon press briefing this afternoon, the Air Force Deputy Chief of
Staff for Personnel, Lt. Gen. Roger Brady and other Air Force officials
released a 40-page report on the religious climate at the Academy. In early
May, the Air Force announced formation of the Task Force to respond to
"lingering allegations from sources such as Americans United for Separation
of Church and State" of religious intolerance at the Air Force Academy.
The report denies that overt religious discrimination exists at the Academy
but concedes there is "a failure to fully accommodate all members' needs
and a lack of awareness over where the line is drawn between permissible
and impermissible expression of beliefs."
"This report is not perfect, but it is an important first step," said the
Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. "It
acknowledges the extent of the problem and promises changes. It is now
incumbent upon the Air Force to make certain that promise is fulfilled."
On April 28, Americans United sent a letter and a 14-page report to Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Air Force officials detailing allegations
that Academy staff and cadets have used coercive tactics to promote
evangelical Christianity at the institution.
Since the report's release, Americans United has received more complaints
from former and current Air Force cadets regarding the mixing of church and
state at the Academy. The allegations have also drawn national press
attention. Capt. MeLinda Morton, a former Lutheran chaplain at the Academy,
told USA Today of pervasive proselytizing on behalf Academy staff,
describing the situation as "malfeasance in the chaplaincy here."
Lynn emphasized that AU will continue to closely monitor the situation and
work with members of Congress to make certain that all religious and
philosophical points of view are welcome at the institution.
"I wish the Air Force Academy had been more forthcoming in admitting that
religious intolerance does exist at the Academy," said Lynn. "Members of
our military are charged with defending our way of life, which includes
religious liberty. It would be ironic indeed if the Air Force failed to
protect that basic right for Academy cadets.
"We intend to remain involved to ensure that the basic constitutional
rights of all cadets are respected," Lynn concluded.
Americans United is a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington,
D.C. Founded in 1947, the organization educates Americans about the
importance of church-state in safeguarding religious freedom.
_____________________________________________
For Immediate Release
June 21, 2005
Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
202.466.3234 telephone
202.466.2587 fax
www.au.org
HOUSE RETREATS ON STOPPING RELIGIOUS BIAS AT AIR FORCE ACADEMY
AU's Lynn Calls Members' Actions 'Appalling' and Debate 'Ugly'
Americans United deplored the House of Representatives' vote to yank a
provision from the Defense appropriations bill urging military officials to
correct religious intolerance at the U.S. Air Force Academy.
After contentious debate, the House voted 210-198 yesterday evening to
strip the provision from the $408.9 billion defense spending bill that
criticized the Academy for allowing, "coercive and abusive religious
proselytizing."
The provision sponsored by U.S. Rep. David Obey (D-Wisc.), noted that while
"expression of personal religious faith is welcome" in the U.S. military,
aggressive proselytizing of cadets and others at the Air Force Academy must
not be condoned.
Obey's provision also called for the military to provide a plan to Congress
"no later than 60 days" following the enactment of the appropriations bills
for ensuring the Academy "maintains a climate free from coercive religious
intimidation and inappropriate proselytizing by Air Force officials and
others in the chain-of-command...."
Additionally, Obey's measure required the Air Force to report on the
circumstances surrounding the transfer of Captain MeLinda Morton, who had
served as a Lutheran chaplain at the Academy, to Okinawa shortly after she
went public with her concerns about a climate of religious intolerance at
the Academy in Colorado Springs.
Following removal of Obey's language, the House voted to include a
watered-down amendment on the religious climate at the Air Force Academy
pushed by U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.).
It is appalling that House members would retreat from calling on the Air
Force Academy to take swift action against religious intolerance within its
cadet core, faculty and staff," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn. "Congress
should have stood against the acceptance of religious bias within the Air
Force Academy."
During floor debate, Rep. John Hostettler (R-Ind.) sparked strong rebukes
from his Democratic colleagues when he accused them of continuing their
"Long war on Christinianty ... ." Hostettler also said, "Like a moth to a
flame, Democrats can't help themselves when it comes to denigrating and
demonizing Christians."
Rep. Obey asked the House secretary to strike Hostettler's last words from
the record and prevent the Indianan Republican from speaking on the floor
for the remainder of the session.
The House secretary did not sanction Hostettler, but the Indiana
representative voluntarily asked that his last sentence accusing Democrats
of demonizing Christians be removed from the debate's record.
"Today's debate was easily one of this congressional session's ugliest
moments," Lynn said. "For House members to accuse Obey and other law makers
of waging war on Christianity is beyond the pale. Obey and his allies are
trying to make the Air Force Academy a welcoming environment for all
cadets, regardless of their religious affiliations.
"Many of the cadets who have complained to Americans United of heavy-handed
proselytizing at the Academy are Christians," Lynn added.
In May, Americans United sent an extensive 14-page report to Secretary of
Defense Donald Rumsfeld listing examples of officially sanctioned
favoritism toward evangelical Christianity at the Academy. In response, Air
Force officials formed a task force to look into the matter. The task force
is expected to issue a report this week.
During yesterday's floor debate, Obey and other supporters of his measure
noted that recently Lt. Gen. John Rosa, the superintendent of the Academy,
publicly acknowledged problems at the institution that could take years to
correct. He told the Anti-Defamation League, "I have problems in my cadet
wing, I have issues in my staff, and I have issues in my faculty." He added
that concerns over aggressive proselytizing at the Academy keeps him awake
at nights.
Americans United is a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington,
D.C. Founded in 1947, the organization educates Americans about the
importance of church-state separation in safeguarding religious freedom.
www.au.org
**************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.

User: "Unpleasant Truth"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 12:16:25 AM

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

These left wing anti-Christian bigots would have demanded the Continental
Congress remove Gen. George Washington as commander of the revolutionary
army for ORDERING his officers to attend Christian services. Of course,
the public would have given them the respect they deserved - by tarring
and feathering them.
----
*Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and
humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of
Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to
the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer,
to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal
favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity
peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and
happiness:"
Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of
November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the
service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of
all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all
unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind
care and protection of the people of this country previous to their
becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable
interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the
late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which
we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we
have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety
and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted'
for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the
means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in
general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased
to confer upon us.
And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and
supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to
pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether
in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative
duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a
blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise,
just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and
obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such
as have show kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments,
peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true
religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and,
generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity
as He alone knows to be best.
Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d dy of October, A.D.
1789.
*(signed) *G. Washington*
.

User: "Greywolf"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 01:21:59 AM

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:JM5ve.2032$Qo.991@fed1read01...

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

These left wing anti-Christian bigots would have demanded the Continental
Congress remove Gen. George Washington as commander of the revolutionary
army for ORDERING his officers to attend Christian services. Of course,
the public would have given them the respect they deserved - by tarring
and feathering them.

----
*Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and
humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of
Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to
the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer,
to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal
favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity
peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and
happiness:"
<snip>
I find it fascinating to see how much and how often Conservative
Christians hearken back to the Founding Fathers and their beliefs and
practices. There is no doubt that America was, for all intents and
purposes, a Christian nation. Well, times have changed. The founding
fathers (who owned slaves!) didn't have the benefit of all the biblical
evidence concerning the bible (both pro and con) that we have today. The
nation is now multi-religious so we can't go back to "the good ole' days"
when virtually every American (excluding the Native Americans!) was a
Christian. I doubt the Founding Fathers would put up with the religious
intolerance we see today for more than ten minutes (I exaggerate here).
And being the educated, often open-minded men that they were, I wonder how
many of them would have remained "bible-thumpers" knowing what we now know
about the bible today. Even Thomas Paine ("The Age of Reason") noticed a
few problems with the "Good" Book back then. Imagine what they would think
if they had copies of some of the Commentaries written since their time
(including "Conservative" commentaries like Gundry's "Commentary on
Matthew" for example). They would just die. They didn't have even an
inkling back then as to the Tsunami of evidence against an inerrant Bible
that has been amassed today. And no, Washington would not be removed as
commander of the Revolutionary Army for what he did. What he did at the
time was not out-of-step for the time. It would, however, be today. Keep
those evangelicals at bay. They have not business, or right, to infringe
upon someone else's religion or lack thereof. Put a zipper on it! Damn you
right-wing evangelicals. You're sickening.

Greywolf
.

User: "Bob LeChevalier"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 04:48:15 AM

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

Since there was no constitution the, there would have no basis on
which to do so.

Of course,
the public would have given them the respect they deserved - by tarring
and feathering them.

Not likely. Jews in those days weren't treated *too* badly in the
colonies.

*(signed) *G. Washington*

Who always left the church rather than take communion.
lojbab
--
lojbab

Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.

User: "Unpleasant Truth"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 08:06:32 PM

"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:ev9qb1160759fmrg7p9aubsj7t6ohkmhoh@4ax.com...

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

These left wing anti-Christian bigots would have demanded the

Continental

Congress remove Gen. George Washington as commander of the

revolutionary

army for ORDERING his officers to attend Christian services.

Since there was no constitution the, there would have no basis on
which to do so.

And even after the constitution, there is still no basis for doing so (as
is proven by the overtly religious themes of Washington's Thanksgiving
Declaration). The lack of any such basis is irrelevant to leftist
anti-Christian bigots.
.

User: "Michelle Malkin"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 10:53:50 PM

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:scnve.3345$Qo.739@fed1read01...

"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:ev9qb1160759fmrg7p9aubsj7t6ohkmhoh@4ax.com...

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

These left wing anti-Christian bigots would have demanded the

Continental

Congress remove Gen. George Washington as commander of the

revolutionary

army for ORDERING his officers to attend Christian services.

Since there was no constitution the, there would have no basis on
which to do so.

Since Washington was a deist, not a Christian, you are
probably vastly exaggerating his intent.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	26 Jun 2005 03:10:48 PM

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote:

Washington's Thanksgiving proclamation means nothing
He wasn't a religionist man.
Therefore a man, not religious, signing off on something Congress wanted
was being the political person. With regards to religion, it means.
Do you know who is the greatest perverter of religion is?
It's politicians. Every time they speak of religion they are reducing from
something that might be sacred to profane.
They devalue it
* A Baptist minister and follow warrior with Jefferson, Madison and
others in the struggle for religious freedom gave this advice about
electing public officials: "...guard against those men who make a great
noise about religion..."
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/leland5.htm
********************************************************************************
And be it further enacted, That, in addition to the devices and legends
upon the gold, silver, and other coines [sic] of the United States, it
shall be lawful for the director of the mint, with the approval of the
Secretary of the Treasury, to cause the motto 'In God We Trust' to be
placed upon such coins hereafter to be issued as shall admit of such legend
thereon."
The motto was applied here and there to various denominations of coin after
1866. President Teddy Roosevelt commissioned an artist to design new coins
in 1905 and the artist disliked the inartistic intrusion of the god motto
and opted for 'E Pluribus Unum' which Roosevelt also liked. Roosevelt tried
to have the motto removed, saying that it was offensive to truly religious
people, that it cheapened religion, etc, but Congress refused to remove it,
and so it remains to this day.
The first coins with that motto were issued in 1907.
When religious factions discovered that the religious motto had been
replaced by a more proper and secular motto a political hot potato
resulted.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/motto.htm
************************************************************************
Theodore Roosevelt Disapproved
Theodore Roosevelt disapproved of the motto "In God We Trust," but not
for artistic reasons. He felt essentially that it was blasphemous for such
a motto to appear on mere coins. He expresses those sentiments in a letter
to William Boldly on November 11, 1907, which said in part:
My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that
to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only
does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which
comes dangerously close to sacrilege....It is a motto which it is indeed
well to have inscribed on our great national monuments, in our temples of
justice, in our legislative halls, and in building such as those at West
Point and Annapolis -- in short, wherever it will tend to arouse and
inspire a lofty emotion in those who look thereon. But it seems to me
eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins, just as it would
be to cheapen it by use on postage stamps, or in advertisements.(3)
Again the religious community fell upon the Congress and the President
with letters of protest and with numerous petitions demanding the
restoration of the motto "In God We Trust" that had appeared on *some*
coins since 1864. Roosevelt realized that he could not buck public opinion
on the issue. A bill was introduced into Congress in 1908. When it became
obvious that the House was going to vote in favor of the bill, Roosevelt
talked to Senator Thomas Carter, a Republican from Montana, about the bill,
referring to a statement by a member of the House Committee on Coinage,
Weights and Measures, saying:
The Congressman says the House Committee wants to pass a bill
restoring the motto to the coin. I tell him it is not necessary; it is rot;
but the Congressman says there is a misapprehension as to the religious
purport of it -- it is so easy to stir up a sensation and misconstrue the
President's motive -- and that the Committee is agitated as to the effect
of a veto. I repeat, it is rot, pure rot; but I am telling the Congressman
if Congress wants to pass a bill reestablishing the motto, I shall not veto
it. You may as well know it in the Senate also.
The bill was passed in the House on March 8, 1908, and the Senate on
May 13, 1908, becoming Public Law No. 120. The law said in part "Be it
enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of
America in Congress assembled, That the motto 'In God We Trust,' heretofore
inscribed on certain denominations of the gold and silver coins of the
United States of America, shall hereafter be inscribed upon all such gold
and silver coins of said denominations as heretofore." Theodore Roosevelt
signed it, as approved, on May 18, 1908.
http://www.atheists.org/public.square/coins.html#roosevelt
*****************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.

User: "Cary Kittrell"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	27 Jun 2005 11:04:37 AM

In article <scnve.3345$Qo.739@fed1read01> "Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> writes:

"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:ev9qb1160759fmrg7p9aubsj7t6ohkmhoh@4ax.com...

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

These left wing anti-Christian bigots would have demanded the

Continental

Congress remove Gen. George Washington as commander of the

revolutionary

army for ORDERING his officers to attend Christian services.

Since there was no constitution the, there would have no basis on
which to do so.

As underscored yet once again in today's decision, the Supreme Court,
seven of whose members were appointed by Nixon, Reagan, Bush, or Ford,
seems to have a different understanding of this than you do.
- cary
.

User: "Strabo"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	26 Jun 2005 10:40:49 PM

In Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY on Fri, 24
Jun 2005 22:16:25 -0700, by Unpleasant Truth, we read:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

This implies a comparison of apples to oranges.
Washington was a deist and the Christianity at those services
was not modern fundamentalism.
His objective was group reinforcement and the call to higher
powers for moral and spiritual comfort.
<snipped>
.

User: "Gray Shockley"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 12:25:33 PM

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005, anonymous poster boasted:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

And made Thomas Jefferson get
rid of his slaves, too.
And made both of them accept blacks,
AmerInds and women voting.
And you know what He thought about standing armies.
It would prolly be enough to make Geo Washington go get
some of the output of His still and use some of that hemp
which had been carefully separated into male and female
plants.
My, my, my.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier

Of course,
the public would have given them the respect they deserved - by tarring
and feathering them.

----
*Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and
humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of
Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to
the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer,
to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal
favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity
peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and
happiness:"

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of
November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the
service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of
all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all
unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind
care and protection of the people of this country previous to their
becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable
interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the
late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which
we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we
have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety
and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted'
for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the
means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in
general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased
to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and
supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to
pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether
in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative
duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a
blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise,
just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and
obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such
as have show kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments,
peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true
religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and,
generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity
as He alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d dy of October, A.D.
1789.

*(signed) *G. Washington*

User: "Strabo"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	26 Jun 2005 11:00:49 PM

In Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY on Sat, 25
Jun 2005 12:25:33 -0500, by Gray Shockley, we read:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005, anonymous poster boasted:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

And made Thomas Jefferson get
rid of his slaves, too.

This had little to nothing to do with their personal feelings
concerning slavery.
There were local laws against mass freeing of slaves
on the grounds of security and economics.
Single manumissions were common in the cities.

And made both of them accept blacks,
AmerInds and women voting.

More modern misinterpretations.
Many Blacks were accepted. Richmond, Virginia and other
cities had more free Blacks in those populations than slaves.
Some Blacks had slaves. Some Indians had slaves.
Indians had their own lands and ways of life.
Women could vote. Few did so.

And you know what He thought about standing armies.

He would, as the Constitution later demanded, disband the army
after the war.

It would prolly be enough to make Geo Washington go get
some of the output of His still and use some of that hemp
which had been carefully separated into male and female
plants.

There were free men in those days, unlike the effeminate
wastlings that pass for men today.
Every farm of size grew hemp and had a still. Hemp was used for
manufacturing cloth, rope, sails, containers, etc., and alcohol
was used in manufacturing, preservatives and medicines.
And yes, free men could make and smoke marijuana and drink
liquor.

My, my, my.

Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier

User: "Cary Kittrell"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	27 Jun 2005 11:08:53 AM

In article <aftub15lnpqouf02m0n7beul4g234rlk5s@4ax.com> Strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> writes:

In Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY on Sat, 25
Jun 2005 12:25:33 -0500, by Gray Shockley, we read:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005, anonymous poster boasted:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

And made Thomas Jefferson get
rid of his slaves, too.

This had little to nothing to do with their personal feelings
concerning slavery.

There were local laws against mass freeing of slaves
on the grounds of security and economics.

And yet Washington freed his on his death. When, presumably,
he would have no more use for them.

Single manumissions were common in the cities.

And made both of them accept blacks,
AmerInds and women voting.

More modern misinterpretations.

Many Blacks were accepted. Richmond, Virginia and other
cities had more free Blacks in those populations than slaves.
Some Blacks had slaves. Some Indians had slaves.

Indians had their own lands and ways of life.

Women could vote. Few did so.

Beg pardon? When and where? And if so, what was the entire
suffragette movement about?
-- cary
.

User: "Gray Shockley"
Title: Past Tense, AmerInds, Women and GirlyBoys [was: More Air Force Religious Atmosphere at Academy]	27 Jun 2005 12:57:22 AM

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:00, ""'Strabo'"" wrote

In Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY on Sat, 25
Jun 2005 12:25:33 -0500, by Gray Shockley, we read:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005, anonymous poster boasted:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

And made Thomas Jefferson get
rid of his slaves, too.

This had little to nothing to do with their personal feelings
concerning slavery.

Of course, it didn't. TJ is well known for his "sleeping
god" statement as well as other, longer statements.
The comment was for emphasis.

There were local laws against mass freeing of slaves
on the grounds of security and economics.

Single manumissions were common in the cities.

And in rural areas, also. In the 1600's, in Gloucester
County, VA, one of my ancestors inherited a slave and,
immediately set him free ("for one dollar and
considerations"). My ancestor, in this case, was a Quaker.
[This is the origin of the "black Shockleys".]
The comment was for emphasis.

And made both of them accept blacks,
AmerInds and women voting.

More modern misinterpretations.

Many Blacks were accepted. Richmond, Virginia and other
cities had more free Blacks in those populations than slaves.
Some Blacks had slaves. Some Indians had slaves.

Oh, yes; I think everyone knows that by now; it's used by
every racist - or so it seems - on UseNet.
The comment was for emphasis.

Indians had their own lands and ways of life.

Uh, are you familiar with the definition of "genocide"?
You're correct in that AmerInds //had// "their own lands"
and //had// their "ways of life".
The importance of the "past tense"
cannot be over-emphasized.

Women could vote. Few did so.

Okay, I'll call you on this one. Back up your
statement, please.

And you know what He thought about standing armies.

He would, as the Constitution later demanded,
disband the army after the war.

Okay, I'll call you on this one. Back up your
statement, please.
{If I recall correctly (and I may well not) the US Army
Corps of Engineers is the oldest branch of any part of the
US Military in continuous service - apparently, there was
an Engineer Installation that never stood down. New York?}

It would prolly be enough to make Geo Washington go get
some of the output of His still and use some of that hemp
which had been carefully separated into male and female
plants.

There were free men in those days, unlike the effeminate
wastlings that pass for men today.

No joke! There are even those who don't have the modicrum
of courage necessary to sign posts on UseNet with their
names but hide behind the falsies they wear in shame.
And there are those who claim to be warriors without
ever donning their country's military uniform.

Every farm of size grew hemp and had a still.

Okay, I'll call you on this one. Back up your
statement, please. [My ancestors in the 1600's and 1700's
were split into farmers and those who followed the sea and
the farmers left no record (and they left pretty good
records) of any stills or hemp growing.]

Hemp was used for
manufacturing cloth, rope, sails, containers, etc., and alcohol
was used in manufacturing,

Manufacturing of what?

preservatives

Preserving what?

and medicines.

[chuckle] There were /much/ better things to use in
medicines than alcohol although, certainly, alcohol was
used.
---------------------------------------
The original recipe for Lydia Pinkham's
Vegetable Compound is as follows:
Unicorn Root (Aletris farinosa L.) 8 oz.
Life Root (Senecio aureus L.) 6 oz.
Black Cohosh (Cimicifuga racemosa (L.) Nutt.) 6oz.
Pleurisy Root (Asclepias tuberosa L.) 6 oz.
Fenugreek Seed (Trigonella foenum-graecum L.) 12 oz.
Alcohol (18%) to make 100 pints
<http://www.mum.org/mrspin17.htm>
---------------------------------------

And yes, free men could make and smoke marijuana and drink
liquor.

Still can and still do. [I drink Boodles {and Burnett's
when I'm broke} but just the smell of marijuana makes me
throw up. [I'm prolly the only person in this area who
can't be around marijuana that supports its legalization.]]

My, my, my.

Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier

Gray Shockley
---------------------------------------
President George W C Bush's business professor at
Harvard Business School, Professor Yoshi Tsurumi, recalls
our President as "not just as a terrible student but as
spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar".

User: "The_Real_God"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	27 Jun 2005 07:36:25 PM

Unpleasant Truth wrote:

<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:895lb1tutid221fgknnmtllosi0u1vtg1h@4ax.com...

PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 22, 2005

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Contact: Rob Boston or Jeremy Leaming
www.au.org

........
=== politician rapping cutter activated ........
....

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d dy of October, A.D.
1789.

*(signed) *G. Washington*

Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
Like all the old men, that send young men, to die in their wars,
George W. (then) could lie, as good as the George W. (now). :)
"The United States is in no sense founded upon
the Christian doctrine."
-- George Washington --
But, G.W. Bush *IRAQ LIES* were/are *High Crimes and Misdemeanors*
according to U.S. laws, and he *MUST* be Impeached!
Ignorance of laws has *never* been an acceptable plea!
GOD'S CREATOR
...That was my only sin... :(
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men explore the unknown seeking more wisdom, while other
men fall on their hands and knees and start mumbling...
Todays U.S. Holy Wars News:
http://www.antiwar.com
.

User: ""
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	26 Jun 2005 09:48:12 AM

"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:

"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:

:|You ignored my question as to the source of the complaints against the
:|cadet email at the USAF.

You can toss this one in the mix as well
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Religion+++air+force+Academy+&btnG=Search
Results 1 - 10 of about 705,000 for Religion air force Academy
(obviously not all of those apply but many especially in the first couple
of pages do apply)
and this one makes for some interesting reading as well
Do any of you have the May 2005 issue of Harper's Magazine? If not it
would be worth your while to get a copy and check out the following three
articles that will be found in it:
Soldiers of Christ: I. Inside America's most powerful megachurch
Soldiers of Christ: II. Feeling the hate with the National Religious
Broadcasters.
**************************************************************************************
From Soldiers of Christ: I. Inside America's most powerful megachurch
The city's mightiest megachurch crests silver and blue atop a gentle slope
of pale yellow prairie grass on the outskirts of town. Silver and blue, as
it happens, are Air Force colors. New Life Church was built far north of
town in part so it would be visible from the Air Force Academy. New Life
wanted that kind of character in its congregation.
"Church" is insufficient to describe the complex. There is a permanent
structure called the Tent, which regularly fills with hundreds or thousands
of teens and twentysomethings for New Life's various youth gatherings. Next
to the Tent stands the old sanctuary, a gray box capable of seating 1,500;
this juts out into the new sanctuary, capacity 7,500, already too small. At
the complex's western edge is the World Prayer Center, which looks like a
great iron wedge driven into the plains. The true architectural wonder of
New Life, however, is the pyramid of authority into which it orders its
11,000 members. At the base are 1,300 cell groups, whose leaders answer to
section leaders, who answer to zone, who answer to district, who answer to
Pastor Ted Haggard, New Life's founder.
Pastor Ted, who talks to President George W. Bush or his advisers every
Monday, is a handsome forty-eight-year-old Indianan, most comfortable in
denim. He likes to say that his only disagreement with the President is
automotive; Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas Pastor Ted loves his Chevy.
In addition to New Life, Pastor Ted presides over the National Association
of Evangelicals (NAE), whose 45,000 churches and 30 million believers make
up the nation's most powerful religious lobbying group, and also over a
smaller network of his own creation, the Association of Life-Giving
Churches, 300 or so congregations modeled on New Life's "free market"
approach to the divine.
Pastor Ted will serve as NAE president for as long as the movement is
pleased with him, and as long as Pastor Ted is its president the NAE will
make its headquarters in Colorado Springs. Some believers call the city the
Wheaton of the West, in honor of Wheaton, Illinois, once the headquarters
of a more genteel Christian conservatism; others call Colorado Springs the
"evangelical Vatican," a phrase that says much both about the city and
about the easeful orthodoxy with which the movement now views itself.
Certainly the gathering there has no parallel in history, not in Lynchburg,
Virginia, nor Tulsa, nor Pasadena, nor Orlando, nor any other city that has
aspired to be the capital of evangelical America. Evangelical activist
groups ("parachurch" ministries, in the parlance) in Colorado Springs
number in the hundreds, though a precise count is hard to specify. Groups
migrate there and multiply. They produce missionary guides, "family
resources," school curricula, financial advice, athletic training programs,
Bibles for every occasion. The city is home to Young Life, to the
Navigators, to Compassion International; to Every Home for Christ and
Global Ethnic Missions (Youth Ablaze). Most prominent among the
ministries is Dr. James Dobson's Focus on the Family, whose radio programs
(the most extensive in the world, religious or secular), magazines, videos,
and books reach more than 200 million people worldwide.
The press tends to regard Dobson as the most powerful evangelical Christian
in America, but Pastor Ted is at least his equal. Whereas Dobson plays the
part of national scold, promising to destroy politicians who defy the
Bible, Pastor Ted quietly guides those politicians through the ritual of
acquiescence required to save face. He doesn't strut, like Dobson; he
gushes. When Bush invited him to the Oval Office to discuss policy with
seven other chieftains of the Christian right in late 2003, Pastor Ted
regaled his whole congregation with the story via email. "Well, on Monday I
was in the World Prayer Center"--New Life's high-tech,
twenty-four-hour-a-day prayer chapel--"and my cell phone rang." It was a
presidential aide; "the President," says Pastor Ted, wanted him on hand for
the signing of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. Pastor Ted was on a
plane the next morning and in the President's office the following
afternoon. "It was incredible," wrote Pastor Ted. He left it to the
press to note that Dobson wasn't there.
No pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of
evangelicalism than does Pastor Ted, and no church more than New Life.
**************************************************************************************
From: "Mark S." <mshapiro2@ [delete]
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.education
Subject: Re: The Separation of Church & Air Force
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:22:45 -0700
The complaints about the harrassment of non-Christian cadets at the Air
Force Academy have been well documented.
See http://irascibleprofessor.com/comments-04-22-05.htm for a link to
detailed news reports.
Dr. S.
************************************************************************************
Actually I didn't. I pointed put that you were demanding of another that
which you were unable or unwilling to provide yourself;
I also pointed out that the very thing you were asking for had already been
provided by me in the original post
Kindly note from the original post:
but in a more serious vein
consider a recent (May 14) New York Times editorial entitled "The
Separation of Church and Air Force":
* Pressure from "dozens of faculty" upon cadets to "adopt Christian
beliefs and practices."
* Cadets instructed by one chaplain to warn their non-born-again
comrades that "the fires of hell" were waiting for them.
* Those who decline to attend chapel forced to march in "heathen
flights." * A football coach's "Team Jesus Christ" banner.
* Official pressure to view Mel Gibson's film, The Passion of the
Christ.
* Non-Christian religions including Buddhism and Judaism cut from an
educational videotape.
* A Lutheran chaplain who complained about the deletion dismissed
form her position. These are not all new abuses. Some of them were
identified as much as a year ago. What has become clear, according to the
Times, is that the Air Force Academy's own chain of command is not about to
correct the abuses. The editorial concludes: "It is time for the higher
chain of command to deproselytize this institution of national defense."
AGAIN
a recent (May 14) New York Times editorial entitled "The
Separation of Church and Air Force":
AND
* A Lutheran chaplain who complained about the deletion dismissed
form her position. These are not all new abuses. Some of them were
identified as much as a year ago. What has become clear, according to the
Times, is that the Air Force Academy's own chain of command is not about to
correct the abuses. The editorial concludes: "It is time for the higher
chain of command to deproselytize this institution of national defense."
Funny you didn't see that.
*********************************************************************************
There is also the following as well
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050601/ap_on_re_us/academy_religion
[excerpt]
Air Force Cadet E-Mails Religious Quotes
By ROBERT WELLER, Associated Press Writer Wed Jun 1, 2:43 PM ET
DENVER - On the eve of his graduation, the top cadet at the Air Force
Academy sent out a religious-themed e-mail to thousands of fellow
cadets, even as the school is grappling with complaints that some
evangelical Christians are harassing others at the school.
***********************************************************************************
and this
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/living/religion/11757060.htm
A recent incident attracting national attention arose from a Bowden speech
at a Fellowship of Christian Athletes meeting in Colorado Springs. In
defending Air Force Academy football coach Fisher DeBerry's organizing of
his team around evangelical Christian norms, Bowden said DeBerry was
fighting against the U.S. government, "fighting a heck of a battle because
he happens to be a Christian, and he wants his boys to be saved. I want my
boys to be saved.... We know we're going to get challenged on it, but
that's what we believe in. I ain't gonna back down."
This is consistent with what he says to many groups in many places. This
time, though, the context is problematic.
The Air Force Academy is being officially investigated over complaints that
its faculty, officers and cadets penalize those on campus who do not hold
evangelical Christian beliefs. We're talking documented accusations and
protracted investigation here.
The latest inquiry is not complete, but Acting Air Force Secretary Michael
L. Dominguez is awaiting a task force's report. It might have been wise for
Bowden to refrain from airing his views on the separation of church and Air
Force right now.
****************************************************************************************
and this
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Religion+lutheran+chaplain+air+force+&spell=1
Results 1 - 10 of about 25,400 for Religion lutheran chaplain air force
and this
http://rising-hegemon.blogspot.com/2005/05/evangelicals-at-air-force-academy.html

:|And since you are the first person to ask, I got my information from
:|USAFA home page. As I have said elsewhere I have not seen this cadet's
:|particular email.

But newspapers have.

:| But the USAFA note about the incident describes the
:|God/Bible references in the email as only a modest percentage (about
:|10%) of the total number of quotes in the email which included quotes
:|from several other people ("...Buddha, Gandhi, Confucius, poets,
:|authors, presidents, military leaders and a host of others.").
:|
:|The bottom line is that the cadet was wrongly accused of sending an
:|email that pushed specific religious beliefs.

That is your conclusion.
The email was only the latest of a series of events that are under
investigation there. as the above information shows.
***********************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
.

User: "The Bandit"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	24 Jun 2005 07:22:40 AM

wrote:

Americans United for Separation of Church and State today welcomed a U.S.
Air Force task force report addressing religious bias at the Air Force
Academy in Colorado Springs as an important first step toward resolving the
problem - but the group says more work needs to be done.

Oh my, just think if there was no bias in the world.

On April 28, Americans United sent a letter and a 14-page report to Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Air Force officials detailing allegations
that Academy staff and cadets have used coercive tactics to promote
evangelical Christianity at the institution.

Bet Rummy fell off his chair laughing at these idiots. You'll never
remove christianity from the U.S armed forces, and American's United
certaintly are off to a bad start in attempting by showing they have no
basic understanding of this countries history or constitution.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 01:33:38 PM

"The Bandit" <no-reply@idexer.com> wrote:

:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
:|
:|> Americans United for Separation of Church and State today welcomed a U.S.
:|> Air Force task force report addressing religious bias at the Air Force
:|> Academy in Colorado Springs as an important first step toward resolving the
:|> problem - but the group says more work needs to be done.
:|
:|Oh my, just think if there was no bias in the world.
:|
:|> On April 28, Americans United sent a letter and a 14-page report to Defense
:|> Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Air Force officials detailing allegations
:|> that Academy staff and cadets have used coercive tactics to promote
:|> evangelical Christianity at the institution.
:|
:|Bet Rummy fell off his chair laughing at these idiots. You'll never
:|remove christianity from the U.S armed forces, and American's United
:|certaintly are off to a bad start in attempting by showing they have no
:|basic understanding of this countries history or constitution.

Why don't you give us your basic understanding of this countries history or
constitution.
*****************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.

User: "Bill"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	24 Jun 2005 10:34:09 AM

You are narrow mindedly ASSUMING that your religious beliefs are the only
correct ones. There are thousands of religious beliefs and there is NO
OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that only one of them is the correct one.
And you have no understanding that our government was founded on the
separation of church and State. We have millions of citizens of different
religions or no religions at all. These non Christians should not be forced
into Christian practices.
This would be a serious infringement of our freedoms. Quit be a begot!
"The Bandit" <no-reply@idexer.com> wrote in message
news:1119615760.610590.274170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:

Americans United for Separation of Church and State today welcomed a

U.S.

Air Force task force report addressing religious bias at the Air Force
Academy in Colorado Springs as an important first step toward resolving

the

problem - but the group says more work needs to be done.

Oh my, just think if there was no bias in the world.

On April 28, Americans United sent a letter and a 14-page report to

Defense

Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Air Force officials detailing allegations
that Academy staff and cadets have used coercive tactics to promote
evangelical Christianity at the institution.

User: "Unpleasant Truth"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 08:13:55 PM

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6CVue.2247$Bm.159@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

You are narrow mindedly ASSUMING that your religious beliefs are the

only

correct ones. There are thousands of religious beliefs and there is NO
OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that only one of them is the correct one.

Nor is there any OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that we are "endowed by our Creator
certain inalienable rights..." or that tyranny is wrong, or that taxation
without representation is wrong.
Nonetheless, those beliefs are the founding principles of our country.
And they have produced the freest and best country in history - which the
left is trying to destroy.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	26 Jun 2005 03:12:05 PM

"Unpleasant Truth" <no.one@nowhere.com> wrote:

:|
:|"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
:|news:6CVue.2247$Bm.159@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
:|> You are narrow mindedly ASSUMING that your religious beliefs are the
:|only
:|> correct ones. There are thousands of religious beliefs and there is NO
:|> OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that only one of them is the correct one.
:|
:|Nor is there any OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that we are "endowed by our Creator
:|certain inalienable rights..." or that tyranny is wrong, or that taxation
:|without representation is wrong.
:|
:|Nonetheless, those beliefs are the founding principles of our country.
:|And they have produced the freest and best country in history - which the
:|left is trying to destroy.

Church state separation played a major role in producing a lot of that
freedom you talk about.
The theocrats (Radical religious right) are trying to destroy that.
*****************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.

User: "Curly Surmudgeon"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 10:37:31 PM

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:13:55 -0700, Unpleasant Truth wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6CVue.2247$Bm.159@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

You are narrow mindedly ASSUMING that your religious beliefs are the

only

correct ones. There are thousands of religious beliefs and there is NO
OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that only one of them is the correct one.

Nor is there any OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that we are "endowed by our Creator
certain inalienable rights..." or that tyranny is wrong, or that taxation
without representation is wrong.

Nonetheless, those beliefs are the founding principles of our country.
And they have produced the freest and best country in history

You were on a roll this far, unpleasant.

- which the left is trying to destroy.

Then you fell off the swing with pejoratives and assertions. Please
define "the left" and how they are "trying to destroy."
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://curlysurmudgeon.com/documents/bush_lies.txt
------------------------------------------------------------------------
.

User: "DanielSan"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 11:07:00 PM

Unpleasant Truth wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6CVue.2247$Bm.159@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

You are narrow mindedly ASSUMING that your religious beliefs are the

only

correct ones. There are thousands of religious beliefs and there is NO
OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that only one of them is the correct one.

Nor is there any OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that we are "endowed by our Creator
certain inalienable rights..." or that tyranny is wrong, or that taxation
without representation is wrong.

Nonetheless, those beliefs are the founding principles of our country.
And they have produced the freest and best country in history - which the
left is trying to destroy.

Moron.
.

User: "The Bandit"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	25 Jun 2005 02:30:06 AM

Bill wrote:

My "religious beliefs"???? I have none personally because I am atheist.

And you have no understanding that our government was founded on the
separation of church and State. We have millions of citizens of different
religions or no religions at all. These non Christians should not be forced
into Christian practices.

Wasn't our country founded on existing colonies, some more than 150
years old? Wasn't religion an important part of the colonies both
socially and politically? Wasn't it nearly impossible for anyone to be
elected into any office if he wasn't christian? Would there ever been a
general constitution adaped by the several states if it would had
impossed a wall of seperation between church and state? Not in a
million years. One of the great things about the federal constitution
is it kept the congress of the states religious affairs they had long
enjoyed. This is a nation of "states" and not a nation of congress or
the supreme court.
I would be a ashamed of myself to admit such a historically inacurate
statement like that. Bet you are used to it though.

This would be a serious infringement of our freedoms. Quit be a begot!

Don't tell me, you are one of those looneys who feel you have a
constitutional right to be protected from religion?
.

User: ""
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	28 Jun 2005 12:05:18 PM

"The Bandit" <no-reply@idexer.com> wrote:

:|Don't tell me, you are one of those looneys who feel you have a
:|constitutional right to be protected from religion?

The only looney is ones that fail to understand that without the freedom
from there willl never be a freeom of
A Discussion of Freedom of Religion And Freedom From Religion
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/freefrom.htm
****************************************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.

User: "Strabo"
Title: Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY	26 Jun 2005 10:31:43 PM

In Re: MORE AIR FORCE RELIGIOUS ATMOSPHERE AT ACADEMY