| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Paul Abeles" |
| Date: |
10 Feb 2004 04:49:22 PM |
| Object: |
Muslims who support secular French |
" But other Muslims here believe the key to successful integration is to
adopt the values of their adopted land.
"I arrived in France and adapted to this country," said 65-year-old Telly
Naar, who came from Morocco 40 years ago. "Everyone should be able to
practice religion at home. If one wants to wear the head scarf outside,
fine, but not inside a school that is secular."
Some said the debate exposed the danger of Islamic fundamentalism and will
help roll back radicalism.
"Until now, families were alone in fighting fundamentalists, often in the
shadows, and at danger to their safety," said Hanifa Cherifi, a mediator for
the national education system on the head scarf issue.
The debate "lifted the veil on fundamentalist thinking, which is taking a
population hostage," she told parliamentary television.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/02/10/international1505EST0668.DTL
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
11 Feb 2004 09:08:02 PM |
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"Bernardz" <Bernard_zzz@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:df7fb09a63e460b49cb2e8e0c99894d8@news.teranews.com...
In article <BLfWb.40734$9k7.839827@news.xtra.co.nz>, Bright1_3
@hotmail.com says...
Luwit wrote:
I've been following this closely. My esteem of the French has
certainly risen. Well done.
Agreed and since it is applied equally to all religions it is fair.
Fairness has nothing to do with it, a person that wants to practice his
beliefs should be allowed too. Its suppose to be a fundamental right.
Nor is it fair as crosses can still be worn.
Where did you hear that? I heard "no"!
Susan
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| User: "Tilly" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
11 Feb 2004 10:25:26 PM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
Where did you hear that? I heard "no"!
Susan
They can be worn as long as they small and not visible. In other words
inside a shirt.
Tilly
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| User: "amigocabal" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
12 Feb 2004 07:29:30 AM |
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"Tilly" <Bright1_3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kfDWb.41843$9k7.864255@news.xtra.co.nz...
Susan Cohen wrote:
Where did you hear that? I heard "no"!
Susan
They can be worn as long as they small and not visible. In other words
inside a shirt.
Tilly
You could always put your star inside your twat nobody will think of
looking for it there!
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| User: "Tilly" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
12 Feb 2004 05:02:10 PM |
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amigocabal wrote:
You could always put your star inside your twat nobody will
think of looking for it there!
Obviously you have some experience at hiding things internally.
Did you swallow the drugs ,or shove them up your rectum?
Tilly
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
12 Feb 2004 06:34:56 PM |
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"Tilly" <Bright1_3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QBTWb.42552$9k7.881391@news.xtra.co.nz...
amigocabal wrote:
You could always put your star inside your twat nobody will
think of looking for it there!
Obviously you have some experience at hiding things internally.
Did you swallow the drugs ,or shove them up your rectum?
How could anyone tell the difference, least of all him?
Susan
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
16 Feb 2004 12:31:52 PM |
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Bernardz says
Fairness has nothing to do with it, a person that wants to practice his
beliefs should be allowed too.
Any beliefs? Surely you don't say that.
Its suppose to be a fundamental right.
Having beliefs is a fundamental right.
Acting on some them is corrrectly prohibited.
Nor is it fair as crosses can still be worn.
Only small ones.
But, then, small hair coverings can still be worn too. They're called hair
ribbons.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
17 Feb 2004 04:27:04 AM |
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On 16 Feb 2004 18:31:52 GMT, jenny6833a@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
wrote:
Bernardz says
Fairness has nothing to do with it, a person that wants to practice his
beliefs should be allowed too.
Any beliefs? Surely you don't say that.
Its suppose to be a fundamental right.
Having beliefs is a fundamental right.
Acting on some them is corrrectly prohibited.
Those that harm others should be forbidden. Covering one's head is
not a danger to others.
Nor is it fair as crosses can still be worn.
Only small ones.
They are usually small, and, furthermore, "small" was undefined.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
17 Feb 2004 06:14:00 PM |
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Thomas P. days
jenny6833a@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
wrote:
Bernardz says
Fairness has nothing to do with it, a person that wants to practice his
beliefs should be allowed too.
Any beliefs? Surely you don't say that.
Its suppose to be a fundamental right.
Having beliefs is a fundamental right.
Acting on some of them is corrrectly prohibited.
Those that harm others should be forbidden.
So should acts that proclaim or forment rebellion.
Covering one's head is not a danger to others.
Would you prohibit carrying a sign that says, "I will not fully particiapate in
the school curicula"?
What about a sign that says, "I'd like to participate in the full school
curricula, but I fear what my brothers' friends will do to me with my brothers
standing idly by"?
Nor is it fair as crosses can still be worn.
Only small ones.
They are usually small, and, furthermore, "small" was undefined.
Those that aren't small will soon be prohibited.
In the French tradition, school principals have the authority to make more
precise rulings within the scope of broad policy.
In the United States, that's called states' rights, local option, and such.
Those concepts are very popular in, for example, Texas.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
18 Feb 2004 01:52:37 AM |
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On 18 Feb 2004 00:14:00 GMT, jenny6833a@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
wrote:
Thomas P. days
jenny6833a@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
wrote:
Bernardz says
Fairness has nothing to do with it, a person that wants to practice his
beliefs should be allowed too.
Any beliefs? Surely you don't say that.
Its suppose to be a fundamental right.
Having beliefs is a fundamental right.
Acting on some of them is corrrectly prohibited.
Those that harm others should be forbidden.
So should acts that proclaim or forment rebellion.
non sequitur
Covering one's head is not a danger to others.
Would you prohibit carrying a sign that says, "I will not fully particiapate in
the school curicula"?
non sequitur
What about a sign that says, "I'd like to participate in the full school
curricula, but I fear what my brothers' friends will do to me with my brothers
standing idly by"?
non sequitur
Nor is it fair as crosses can still be worn.
Only small ones.
They are usually small, and, furthermore, "small" was undefined.
Those that aren't small will soon be prohibited.
Remains to be seen as does the definition of "small".
In the French tradition, school principals have the authority to make more
precise rulings within the scope of broad policy.
In the United States, that's called states' rights, local option, and such.
Those concepts are very popular in, for example, Texas.
So what?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "Tilly" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
11 Feb 2004 06:30:31 PM |
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Bernardz wrote:
Fairness has nothing to do with it, a person that wants to practice
his beliefs should be allowed too. Its suppose to be a fundamental
right.
Nor is it fair as crosses can still be worn.
Yes it is fair,it doesn't apply the rule to one religion but all
religions.The Muslims would have more leg to stand on if it applied to them
only.
A country has every right to do this, especially as France is a secular
country. It only applies to schools and is practical.It means everyone is
able to play sport without being obstructed by unwieldy clothing and I
suspect it may stop or lower the numbers of children who are bullied and
picked on because of their religious beliefs.
Tilly
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
11 Feb 2004 09:10:01 PM |
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"Tilly" <Bright1_3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HOzWb.41644$9k7.860154@news.xtra.co.nz...
I
suspect it may stop or lower the numbers of children who are bullied and
picked on because of their religious beliefs.
The school should be doing that by punishing the perps, not going along with
their bigotry.
Susan
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| User: "uragoner" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
11 Feb 2004 05:51:31 AM |
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Then what do you think of Islamic countries that out law the Bible and
confiscate them. That burn churches and do just what Jesus foretold?
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| User: "Paul Abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
11 Feb 2004 05:59:40 AM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7HoWb.129$W74.58@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Then what do you think of Islamic countries that out law the Bible and
confiscate them. That burn churches and do just what Jesus foretold?
I'm okay with that provided they burn mosques as well and ban the Koran
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Muslims who support secular French |
11 Feb 2004 06:37:35 AM |
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:51:31 GMT, "uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Then what do you think of Islamic countries that out law the Bible and
confiscate them. That burn churches and do just what Jesus foretold?
It's not hard to predict that if you make assholes of yourselves by
rubbing your religion in the faces of people of other religions who
don't want it, they will REACT.
But your pretend friend is merely a character in somebody's religious
mythology and didn't foretell anything.
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| User: "uragoner" |
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| Title: Didn't fortell anything? |
11 Feb 2004 08:18:37 PM |
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Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks that
your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating insects. Oh,
and the whole world should have "faith" in that story......
READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF -
http://www.arabicbible.com/
http://www.theophilos.sk/download.htm#free
http://www.thegrace.com/download.htm or Check Google or another search
Our Infinite God, The One who can truly see the end and the beginning has
given the proof of His omniscience in the form of Biblical prophecies. Here
is where the Koran fails miserably in its attempt to replace the Bible. Here
the plans of Satan and His attack on the church and The Christ are revealed.
Here despite death for all of the earth's inhabitants, salvation is
revealed.
Not by works, but by faith and that not blindly for God has provided
prophecy that all may see.
Islam is a satanic counterfeit that attacks Jesus Christ directly. It
states
that Christ was nothing more than a prophet, and that Mohammed is greater
that Him and all the other Biblical prophets that pointed to Christ- the
Savior and the Son of God. ( see Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, 7:14, Micah 5:2,
Zechariah 9:9, Deuteronomy 18:18 (the one Muslims try to hijack the most),
Genesis 49:10&11, Psalm 2:7; there are several hundred others. Yet it
doesn't
address the fact that there were other prophets after Christ, true
prophets - the apostle John and his Revelation, (also Act 15:32 And Judas
and Silas, being themselves also prophets, exhorted the brethren with many
words, and confirmed them.)
It rejects future prophets, not those chasing falsehoods and bred in
deception and violence, but rather those who are blessed with the latter
rain having kept
Gods commandments through Jesus Christ - His Son. Acts 2:17 And it shall
come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon
all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young
men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: It rejects Gods
Ten Commandments, written by His finger, an unchanging and eternal God, and
the faith of Jesus Christ. see Revelation 14:12 & Revelation 19:10. It
shall bring about the end of civilization as we know it see Daniel 11:35 to
12:5, Isaiah 24. Serving a god of war, and not the God of Righteousness.
Prove it you say?...
engine
Psalms 14:1 ¶<<To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.>> The fool hath
said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done
abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if
there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
none that doeth good, no, not one.
Christianity and Crusaders? Biblically there is a difference and like Islam,
it was forewarned about in the Bible.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He
is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Mathew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your
Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.
The Pope
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:
and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the
dividing of time.( The Pope thinks to change the Ten Commandments, The
Sabbath - the sign of the True Creator, and Idolatry) Note despite Christ's
warning the Priests of this faith call themselves father, and the pope - the
most holy father.....hence blasphemy of the True Father in Heaven.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall
not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that
is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing
himself that he is God.(Thinking he's changed God's sabbath to Sunday,
killing and conquering in the name of Jesus (and neglecting the cross) for
filthy lucre and power. He calls himself the most holy father....total
blasphemy against Jesus' own words)
Revelation 13:1 ¶And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise
up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten
crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as
the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon
gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly
wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. (Wounded by
Napoleon in 1798, healed by Mussolini)
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they
worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to
make war with him?
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things
and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two
months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name,
and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome
them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not
written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the
world.Revelation 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth
with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the
faith of the saints. (written to avoid any wavering of faith due to the
Roman church's claims versus her actions)
Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed
fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the
wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a
woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having
seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with
gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of
abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE
MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(Babylon the source of may nations, tongue peoples, and faiths despite
Ephesians 4:5)
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the
blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great
admiration.
7 ¶And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell
thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which
hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the
bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth
shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not,
and yet is.
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are
seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that
keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
The seven heads are the mountains of Rome - the city of 7 hills . Check an
encyclopedia.
The church - a virgin. So then, a corrupt church - a *****.
This power sought to destroy the Bible, keeping it in Latin so that very few
could read it.
This power sought to resolve various worldly religions with itself - selling
its virtue in the process:
Prayer beads - the rosary
The merger with paganism - the worship of the Heavens including the sun -
Changing God's Sabbath to Sunday (Daniel 7:25) the venerable day of the sun,
and the day Christ rose from the Dead. Made law by Roman emperor Consantine
in 538 AD
The merging of pagan holidays within the so called church. (Mostly around
the equinoxes and other seasonal changes)
Idolatry - images of who?
ISLAM THE TRUTH - A prophet greater than Jesus Christ? Revelation 16:13
Daneil 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire
of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
(Mohammed)
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his
fathers(Abraham and the true Prophets) knew not shall he honour with gold,
and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things (Mosques).
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god (Allah),
whom he
shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule
over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and
the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with
chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into
the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land (Israel), and many countries
shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and
Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of
Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and
over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians
shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him:
therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make
away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the
glorious holy mountain(al aqsa in Jerusalem,oh yes and the dome of the rock
...it did say tabernacles didn't it); yet he shall come to his end,
and none shall help him.
Daniel 12:1 ¶And at that time shall Michael stand up(Judgement on the earth
is past. Read the Book of Hebrews in the New Testament), the great prince
which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of
trouble, (Started by the destruction of the oil fields,of which some sheiks
& clerics are already planning, but will not be able to accomplish til the
Lord allows it.)
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at
that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found
written in the book
The burning of the oil fields including Iraq (Babylon).....oh yes America
will be involved in this!
Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying,
Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is
thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man
buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls,
and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and
all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood,
and of brass, and iron, and marble
adios Iraq,Saudi Arabia, oh yeah and I guess the world's economy.....oh
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Written by God's finger in stone... an unchanging God!
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any
thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is
in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD
thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my
commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD
will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt
not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor
thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in
them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath
day, and hallowed it. (Saturday , actually from Friday sunset to Saturday
sunset)
12 ¶Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the
land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy
neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor
his *****, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
18 ¶And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the
noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it,
they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let
not God speak with us, lest we die.
Matthew 5:17 ¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. ( Christ speaking here)
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to
destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it
more abundant
Another thread:
America:
Revelation 13:11 ¶And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;
and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
After the nuclear destruction of the Middle East oil fields
US shall mandate its own religion and make and image to the Beast
(Catholicism & the Pope) . There shall no longer be a separation of church
and state ( the two horns ) but Sunday laws (in contradiction to God's
Sabbath) and Christian (?) mindset .
IN OTHER WORDS -- forced religious observance, hence speaking as a dragon
(no longer
a lamb)
Sound familiar.........forced religion (The beast)
And so you have the puzzle of Rev. 16:13 Catholicism and its forced
observance, Protestantism and its upcoming force observance (Sunday Laws,
despite the Sabbath being the 7th day, and Islam and its forced observance
of religion). All shall have power to control your ability to work - to buy
and sell as it were. And all ignore God's fourth Commandment, as do the
Atheists (needless
to say, but they'll do what the various governments tell them)
Compare Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine
hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. (Ten Commandments)
w/ :
Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come
down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those
miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them
that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which
had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast (church state
albeit dominantly Protestant), that the image of the beast should both
speak, and cause that as many as would not
worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,
to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the
name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Some of the Jews wear these things on there foreheads (phylacteries?), but
the gist of the passages are what you do and how you think ,The Ten
Commandments, or man's variation thereof....
Anyway we're getting close to a real economic bummer....Cities will
burn,(already seen this in LA & New York, etc. from little incidents like
power outages, or police aggression, but this will be world wide and much
worse), famine throughout the entire world, fallout from the oil fields...-
desperate men will do
desperate things
Again:
Peace in the Middle East.... (or anywhere?) When our world leaders talk of
this, WE SHOULD BE FRIGHTENED
1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden
destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they
shall not escape.
Kind of makes me wonder what Bible our world leaders are reading
anyway.......
Anything less than this is a lie
The True State of Death
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know
not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them
is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done
under the sun.
In a nutshell
John 11:8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to
stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in
the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light
in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend
Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of
taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may
believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let
us also go, that we may die with him.
17 ¶Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days
already.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning
their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met
him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother
had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will
give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the
resurrection at the last day. (Important there are many who seem to be
confused here)
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou
this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the
Son of God, which should come into the world.
28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister
secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where
Martha met him.
31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when
they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying,
She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at
his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not
died.
33 ¶When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which
came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and
see.
35 Jesus wept. ( for the great unbelief of man)
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the
blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a
cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was
dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead
four days.
John 11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou
wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid.
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast
heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which
stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come
forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes:
and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose
him, and let him go.
45 ¶Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which
Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what
things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said,
What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans
shall come and take away both our place and nation. (Lucifer's interjection,
no doubt)
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year,
said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for
the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he
prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in
one the children of God that were scattered abroad. Jews and Gentiles
1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that
we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent
them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
Lord. (Meet Him in the Air - ANYTHING ELSE IS A LIE ! )
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
BUT just before.... Satan appears for one last lie:
Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an
angel of light.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them
that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they
might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should
believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had
pleasure in unrighteousness.
Why so many denominations and religions ?
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but
holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 2:1 ¶But there were false prophets also among the people, even as
there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable
heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves
swift destruction.
---
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
11 Feb 2004 09:05:05 PM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:1oBWb.865$hm4.103@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks
that your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating
insects. Oh, and the whole world should have "faith" in that
story......
As compared to those people who have "faith" in ancient myths and
superstitions with absolutely no basis in reality.
READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF -
I have and it really isn't a very good bit of fiction. But if you read
it carefully and with an open mind, it can sure help convince you that
gods are a figment of imagination.
(snip a ton of bible *****)
Are you really so stupid as to post 500+ lines of crap from your bible
and think that people in alt.atheism give a ***** about it?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 06:48:48 AM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:1oBWb.865$hm4.103@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks
that your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating
insects. Oh, and the whole world should have "faith" in that
story......
So it makes more scientific sense that we were created by a
invisible pixie out of dirt and bone?
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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| User: "uragoner" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 02:40:23 AM |
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That's the easy way out. No thinking on your part required. Just complain
about those who do, after all that's so much easier. However, you're a good
example of what happens with unbelief. Thank you!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.573 / Virus Database: 363 - Release Date: 01/28/2004
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 08:27:40 PM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:XZGWb.1227$hm4.351@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
That's the easy way out. No thinking on your part required. Just
complain about those who do, after all that's so much easier. However,
you're a good example of what happens with unbelief. Thank you!
First. If you want to have a discussion in this newsgroup, you need to
leave sufficient text from the previous post so that people can follow
along.
Second. What specifically are you referring to?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
11 Feb 2004 09:45:18 PM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1oBWb.865$hm4.103@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a fucking bleating moron who honestly
believes that the universe was magicked into existence by an all powerful
sky pixie. Pathetic.
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| User: "uragoner" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 02:51:32 AM |
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Hmmm... wouldn't God be the judge of that? Oh .. and of you, just look...
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your
pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again
and rend you.
Hey, you're already fulfilling Christ's words. Did you notice?
So, again...
Psalms 14:1 ¶<<To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.>> The fool hath
said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done
abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if
there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
none that doeth good, no, not one.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 05:04:02 AM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:o8HWb.1228$hm4.879@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hmmm... wouldn't God be the judge of that? Oh .. and of you, just
look...
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye
your
pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn
again
and rend you.
[snip missionizing]
Keep this stuff where it belongs, which is on none of the groups to which it
was spammed.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 02:38:25 AM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1oBWb.865$hm4.103@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a fucking bleating moron who honestly
believes that the universe was magicked into existence by an all powerful
sky pixie. Pathetic.
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| User: "Boony" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
13 Feb 2004 03:37:13 PM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1oBWb.865$hm4.103@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks that
your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating insects.
Oh,
and the whole world should have "faith" in that story......
<snip>
Our Infinite God, The One who can truly see the end and the beginning has
given the proof of His omniscience in the form of Biblical prophecies.
If he is infinite, there is no beginning or end.
***** for brains.
Boony
aa #1444
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| User: "uragoner" |
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| Title: finite |
15 Feb 2004 01:57:35 PM |
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"Boony" <winpro@nospam.internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:402d437f$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1oBWb.865$hm4.103@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks
that
your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating insects.
Oh,
and the whole world should have "faith" in that story......
<snip>
Our Infinite God, The One who can truly see the end and the beginning
has
given the proof of His omniscience in the form of Biblical prophecies.
If he is infinite, there is no beginning or end.
*** The creation isn't infinite, He is.
***** for brains.
****Was this a phrase you learned from your Mother?
Boony
aa #1444
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| User: "Alan Hobson" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 11:42:06 AM |
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"uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<1oBWb.865$hm4.103@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks that
your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating insects. Oh,
and the whole world should have "faith" in that story......
As opposed to having some all-powerful, infinite, invisible deity
breathe on a handful of dirt and having a full blown human spring
forth? Yeah, that's *much* more believable -- DUH!
<snip biblebabble>
You know... atheists don't believe in the Truth(tm) of your bible, so
why should we give a rat's ***** what it says?
-Alan
aa#1608 BAAWA
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 11:38:15 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:18:37 GMT, a stranger
called by some "uragoner" <uragoner@earthlink.net> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks that
your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating insects. Oh,
and the whole world should have "faith" in that story......
Actually, the whole world should learn the science and understand the
fossil record.
READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF -
I have. Took a college course in it. Some parts were interesting,
some deadly dull, and most of it laughable.
(snip)
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Gregory A Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 01:09:34 PM |
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:18:37 GMT, uragoner
uragoner@earthlink.net said...
Hmmm ..... Let me guess, you're a monkey believer who honestly thinks that
your relatives used to swing from trees, and spent time eating insects. Oh,
and the whole world should have "faith" in that story......
We know from evidence that evolution happens. No faith
required.
We know from evidence that much of the bible is false (pi
isn't three, rabbits don't chew their cud, the flood never
happened, the exodus never happened, slavery is wrong, etc.).
That's why christianity requires faith. Because faith is
believing in something you know isn't so.
So, please explain to me, why you want to believe something
that we all know is untrue. Also, why is it important to you
that we believe it as well?
You can reject science and evidence if you want, but that's
what has made this world a better place. Not religion. While
science has given us things like computers, modern medicine,
the Internet, cars, airplanes, refrigeration, etc, religion
has given us crusades, inquisitions, death camps, book
burnings, witch burnings, people flying planes into
buildings, etc.
I'll pass on the bible, if you don't mind.
Greg the Reprobate
Missionary of Death
-------------------
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
12 Feb 2004 06:29:56 PM |
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"Gregory A Greenman" <see@sig.below> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a958c0c9905d58e989b76@netnews.comcast.net...
We know from evidence that much of the bible is false (pi
isn't three, rabbits don't chew their cud,
Who said they did??
I'm really curious.
Susan
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| User: "Gregory A Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Didn't fortell anything? |
15 Feb 2004 01:16:14 AM |
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:29:56 GMT, Susan Cohen
flaviaR@verizon.net said...
"Gregory A Greenman" <see@sig.below> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a958c0c9905d58e989b76@netnews.comcast.net...
We know from evidence that much of the bible is false (pi
isn't three, rabbits don't chew their cud,
Who said they did??
I'm really curious.
The bible.
Leviticus 11:6 (KJV)
And the hare, because he cheweth the cud...
Greg the Reprobate
Missionary of Death
-------------------
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
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