| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"dgillesp" |
| Date: |
12 Feb 2004 09:46:21 AM |
| Object: |
My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
"Editor of EvilBible.com" wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Feb. 12, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
God Admits He Did Evil Things (Jeremiah 42:9-10 NAB)
[The prophet Jeremiah speaking] "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel,
to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly in this land
I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant you, not uproot
you; for I regret the evil I have done you."
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your simplistic
interpretation of the ancient texts. For example, take your favorite
word "evil." Kenneth Grayston, a tutor in New Testament Language and
Literature, Didsbury College, Bristol, England, explained the biblical
use of the word [evil] as follows: "The Hebrew term ra' [evil] conveys
the factual judgement that something is bad (e.g. figs, cattle),
displeasing (e.g. a woman in the eyes of her husband), or harmful (e.g.
wild beasts, poisonous herbs, disease). Quite generally it means
anything that causes pain, unhappiness, or misery, including the
discipline of punishment sent by God [e.g. your quote above 'the evil I
have done you']. The context must determine the exact meaning; thus a
man whose heart is evil may be either sorrowful or vicious. When God
says: 'I make peace and create evil' (Isa 45.7; cf. Job 2.10), what is
meant is that he is the author of both prosperity and adversity. The
knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2.9, etc.) does not imply the ability
to make moral distinctions, but that perception of what is beneficial or
harmful which cannot be expected of childish inexperience (cf. Isa.
7.15f)." Further he says, "the development of a moral connotation is
very natural; a harmful action, as viewed by the injured party, is a
wicked one."
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
methodios (Denny))
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and plunder?
Read more about the evils of the Bible at www.EvilBible.com
.
|
|
| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 11:20:24 AM |
|
|
"dgillesp" <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in message
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net...
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
I like them.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
"Editor of EvilBible.com" wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Feb. 12, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
God Admits He Did Evil Things (Jeremiah 42:9-10 NAB)
[The prophet Jeremiah speaking] "Thus says the Lord, the God of
Israel,
to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly in this
land
I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant you, not uproot
you; for I regret the evil I have done you."
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your simplistic
interpretation of the ancient texts. For example, take your favorite
word "evil." Kenneth Grayston, a tutor in New Testament Language and
Literature, Didsbury College, Bristol, England, explained the biblical
use of the word [evil] as follows:
As I said to your original post: Why does Yahweh allow it
to be ambiguous or misinterpreted?
When did he designate Grayston to be his interpreter?
"The Hebrew term ra' [evil] conveys
the factual judgement that something is bad (e.g. figs, cattle),
displeasing (e.g. a woman in the eyes of her husband), or harmful (e.g.
wild beasts, poisonous herbs, disease). Quite generally it means
anything that causes pain, unhappiness, or misery, including the
Yes, that is applicable to Yahweh and the bible.
discipline of punishment sent by God [e.g. your quote above 'the evil I
have done you'].
So, a just punishment is good evil?
Why did God regret it then?
The context must determine the exact meaning; thus a
man whose heart is evil may be either sorrowful or vicious. When God
says: 'I make peace and create evil' (Isa 45.7; cf. Job 2.10), what is
meant is that he is the author of both prosperity and adversity.
And when he makes adversity it is... what?.... "good"?
The
knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2.9, etc.) does not imply the ability
to make moral distinctions, but that perception of what is beneficial or
harmful which cannot be expected of childish inexperience (cf. Isa.
7.15f)." Further he says, "the development of a moral connotation is
very natural; a harmful action, as viewed by the injured party, is a
wicked one."
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
As I said, Editor is a bible scholar. You just don't
like his observations.
methodios (Denny))
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book
of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and
plunder?
Read more about the evils of the Bible at www.EvilBible.com
--
Ron Baker
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 12:22:04 PM |
|
|
"dgillesp" <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in message
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net...
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
"Editor of EvilBible.com" wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Feb. 12, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
God Admits He Did Evil Things (Jeremiah 42:9-10 NAB)
[The prophet Jeremiah speaking] "Thus says the Lord, the God of
Israel,
to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly in this
land
I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant you, not uproot
you; for I regret the evil I have done you."
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your simplistic
interpretation of the ancient texts. For example, take your favorite
word "evil." Kenneth Grayston, a tutor in New Testament Language and
Literature, Didsbury College, Bristol, England, explained the biblical
use of the word [evil] as follows: "The Hebrew term ra' [evil] conveys
the factual judgement that something is bad (e.g. figs, cattle),
displeasing (e.g. a woman in the eyes of her husband), or harmful (e.g.
wild beasts, poisonous herbs, disease). Quite generally it means
anything that causes pain, unhappiness, or misery, including the
discipline of punishment sent by God [e.g. your quote above 'the evil I
have done you']. The context must determine the exact meaning; thus a
man whose heart is evil may be either sorrowful or vicious. When God
says: 'I make peace and create evil' (Isa 45.7; cf. Job 2.10), what is
meant is that he is the author of both prosperity and adversity. The
knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2.9, etc.) does not imply the ability
to make moral distinctions, but that perception of what is beneficial or
harmful which cannot be expected of childish inexperience (cf. Isa.
7.15f)." Further he says, "the development of a moral connotation is
very natural; a harmful action, as viewed by the injured party, is a
wicked one."
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
Ahh, you chose the "baffle them with *****" option. Excellent choice sir.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "cooper1" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
14 Feb 2004 05:32:00 PM |
|
|
"dgillesp" <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in message
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net...
[awesome clip..]
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
Here is where your thesis is delusional.
Anone who has even a simple knowledge of a language. just by reading a few
verses of the bible translated into that language, can tell that the bible
is 90% nonsense.
methodios (Denny))
What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book
of
myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and
plunder?
Read more about the evils of the Bible at www.EvilBible.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 04:03:33 PM |
|
|
And so upon Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:21 -0500 didst dgillesp speak thusly:
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your simplistic
interpretation of the ancient texts.
Nope. The problem with believers is the constant rationalization of things
in their religious text that are quite evil...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 01:32:54 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:21 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net>
wrote:
:
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
:
I think you'll find that a lot of atheists *are* biblical scholars
though.
That has been my experience to date, anyway.
I expect that a higher percentage of atheists have studied biblical
texts in detail, than have your everyday christian.
That means actually analysing them, not merely regurgitating them.
In addition, I find that most atheists are significantly more
knowledgable about religions other than christianity than your average
bible-basher.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "DJ Nozem" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 02:46:00 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:21 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net>
wrote:
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
(snippety snip)
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
Of course the editor of evilbible's quotes only work on literalists.
Still, there are plenty of those out there. As many have said, the
bible can be interpreted to justify just about anything. Centuries of
exegesis have only added to the confusion. Its status as a supreme
moral source is to be dismissed.
In that context, the Evil Bible site has something going for it. The
actual problem with mr. editor is that he's a troll who unnecessarily
crossposts potentially inflammatory material to christian newsgroups.
Luckily no one there seems to respond to him anymore.
--
We give meaning to each other
DJ Nozem aa#1465
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Thomas P." |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
14 Feb 2004 01:55:12 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:21 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net>
wrote:
snip
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
Are you able to criticize the Bible (that would include both positive
and negative conclusions) if you are not a Biblical scholar? Are you
a Biblical scholar? Are the majority of Christians Biblical scholars?
Are the majority of even Christian clergymen Biblical scholars?
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
.
|
|
|
| User: "William Klee" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
15 Feb 2004 12:34:31 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:21 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net>
wrote:
snip
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
But do you have to become a biblical scholar to *accept* and *believe*
the bible as well, or is ordinary, every-day reading ability OK then?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
17 Feb 2004 06:20:05 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:21 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net>,
Message ID: <402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net> wrote in alt.atheism;
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
So? That's your personal problem. If you don't like it, don't read it.
You have no integrity with anyone in this newsgroup, Denny. You've
metaphorically burned all your bridges.
(snip Denny's excrement)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "SMChristenson" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
15 Feb 2004 10:53:24 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:21 -0500, dgillesp wrote:
use of the word [evil] as follows: "The Hebrew term ra' [evil] conveys
the factual judgement that something is bad (e.g. figs, cattle),
displeasing (e.g. a woman in the eyes of her husband), or harmful (e.g.
wild beasts, poisonous herbs, disease). Quite generally it means
anything that causes pain, unhappiness, or misery, including the
discipline of punishment sent by God [e.g. your quote above 'the evil I
have done you']. The context must determine the exact meaning; thus a
Yeah, but the really fun evils you didn't elaborate upon are "displeasing"
IN THE EYES OF GOD. Which is where you get all the lists about pigs,
catfish, rabbits and the like in Leviticus. Those evils are literally
TABOOS same as the taboos any anthropologist would find in primitive
tribal cultures with bones through their noses. And that is why they had
to be dealt with so harshly.
So, yes, context is important.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 12:35:38 PM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
I find them rather enlightening, amusing. Also, a good source for
knowledge and ammunition. If you don't like the posts, use your kill file.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
______________
The fool says in his heart "there is no God".
The wise man says it to the world.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 04:05:54 PM |
|
|
And so upon Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:35:38 -0600 didst Vic Sagerquist speak
thusly:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
I find them rather enlightening, amusing. Also, a good source for
knowledge and ammunition. If you don't like the posts, use your kill file.
Not to mention he's complaining about this *to atheists.
Who I suppose are going to rally to the defense of the bible?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
17 Feb 2004 06:17:29 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:05:54 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.02.12.22.05.54.509132@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
And so upon Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:35:38 -0600 didst Vic Sagerquist speak
thusly:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach dgillesp:
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
I find them rather enlightening, amusing. Also, a good source for
knowledge and ammunition. If you don't like the posts, use your kill file.
Not to mention he's complaining about this *to atheists.
Who I suppose are going to rally to the defense of the bible?
Senility. (shrug)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 03:26:45 PM |
|
|
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net:
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible
quotes. Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as
old B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
"Editor of EvilBible.com" wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Feb. 12, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
God Admits He Did Evil Things (Jeremiah 42:9-10 NAB)
[The prophet Jeremiah speaking] "Thus says the Lord, the God of
Israel,
to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly in
this land I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant
you, not uproot you; for I regret the evil I have done you."
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your
simplistic interpretation of the ancient texts. For example, take your
favorite word "evil." Kenneth Grayston, a tutor in New Testament
Language and Literature, Didsbury College, Bristol, England, explained
the biblical use of the word [evil] as follows:
The word 'evil' is English. If words used in the english translation
bible don't mean what they normally mean then who has the authority to
say what they really do mean. The same thing can be applied to the source
texts. Maybe the whole thing is actually an unabridged mother goose
stories that has been mistranslated.
Llanzlan.
<SNIP>
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Adam Marczyk" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 04:20:15 PM |
|
|
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in message
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net...
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
"Editor of EvilBible.com" wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Feb. 12, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
God Admits He Did Evil Things (Jeremiah 42:9-10 NAB)
[The prophet Jeremiah speaking] "Thus says the Lord, the God of
Israel, to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly
in this land I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant
you, not uproot you; for I regret the evil I have done you."
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your simplistic
interpretation of the ancient texts. For example, take your favorite
word "evil." Kenneth Grayston, a tutor in New Testament Language and
Literature, Didsbury College, Bristol, England, explained the biblical
use of the word [evil] as follows: "The Hebrew term ra' [evil] conveys
the factual judgement that something is bad (e.g. figs, cattle),
displeasing (e.g. a woman in the eyes of her husband), or harmful (e.g.
wild beasts, poisonous herbs, disease). Quite generally it means
anything that causes pain, unhappiness, or misery, including the
discipline of punishment sent by God [e.g. your quote above 'the evil I
have done you']. The context must determine the exact meaning; thus a
man whose heart is evil may be either sorrowful or vicious. When God
says: 'I make peace and create evil' (Isa 45.7; cf. Job 2.10), what is
meant is that he is the author of both prosperity and adversity. The
knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2.9, etc.) does not imply the ability
to make moral distinctions, but that perception of what is beneficial or
harmful which cannot be expected of childish inexperience (cf. Isa.
7.15f)." Further he says, "the development of a moral connotation is
very natural; a harmful action, as viewed by the injured party, is a
wicked one."
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
While I agree with you that excessive and belligerent cross-posting serves
no purpose (and indeed I killfiled that individual long ago), I must say I
harbor doubt as to your motives. Are you of the opinion that a person who
*believes* in the Bible should have an equal level of understanding as one
who criticizes it? I've encountered many Christians who hold a double
standard (and some of them have actually admitted this) in believing that
any level of understanding is sufficient to accept Christianity, but no
level of understanding is sufficient to reject it.
--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
| User: "dgillesp" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
13 Feb 2004 06:45:51 PM |
|
|
Adam Marczyk wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in message
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net...
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
"Editor of EvilBible.com" wrote:
Evil Bible Quote of the Day for Feb. 12, 2004 from www.EvilBible.com:
God Admits He Did Evil Things (Jeremiah 42:9-10 NAB)
[The prophet Jeremiah speaking] "Thus says the Lord, the God of
Israel, to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly
in this land I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant
you, not uproot you; for I regret the evil I have done you."
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your simplistic
interpretation of the ancient texts. For example, take your favorite
word "evil." Kenneth Grayston, a tutor in New Testament Language and
Literature, Didsbury College, Bristol, England, explained the biblical
use of the word [evil] as follows: "The Hebrew term ra' [evil] conveys
the factual judgement that something is bad (e.g. figs, cattle),
displeasing (e.g. a woman in the eyes of her husband), or harmful (e.g.
wild beasts, poisonous herbs, disease). Quite generally it means
anything that causes pain, unhappiness, or misery, including the
discipline of punishment sent by God [e.g. your quote above 'the evil I
have done you']. The context must determine the exact meaning; thus a
man whose heart is evil may be either sorrowful or vicious. When God
says: 'I make peace and create evil' (Isa 45.7; cf. Job 2.10), what is
meant is that he is the author of both prosperity and adversity. The
knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2.9, etc.) does not imply the ability
to make moral distinctions, but that perception of what is beneficial or
harmful which cannot be expected of childish inexperience (cf. Isa.
7.15f)." Further he says, "the development of a moral connotation is
very natural; a harmful action, as viewed by the injured party, is a
wicked one."
And that's just for starters. If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
While I agree with you that excessive and belligerent cross-posting serves
no purpose (and indeed I killfiled that individual long ago), I must say I
harbor doubt as to your motives. Are you of the opinion that a person who
*believes* in the Bible should have an equal level of understanding as one
who criticizes it? I've encountered many Christians who hold a double
standard (and some of them have actually admitted this) in believing that
any level of understanding is sufficient to accept Christianity, but no
level of understanding is sufficient to reject it.
I'm having trouble getting my head around your question, if you'd care
to elaborate a bit on it.
methodios
--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Doc Smartass" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 08:09:46 PM |
|
|
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net:
Subject: My Beef with EvilBile Ed
All you have to do is not read it. Problem solved.
--
Dr. Smartass, who should really get paid for point out the obvious
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Brought to you by the letter 'H'
Without it, you'd be eating doug nuts.
.
|
|
|
| User: "William Klee" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
13 Feb 2004 04:17:08 AM |
|
|
In article <Xns948DCD8F730B7askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc Smartass
<gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net:
Subject: My Beef with EvilBile Ed
All you have to do is not read it. Problem solved.
But that could be construed as <gasp> tolerance! That's unchristian.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Doc Smartass" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
13 Feb 2004 10:54:08 PM |
|
|
William Klee <fnord2k@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:130220040417087258%fnord2k@yahoo.com:
In article <Xns948DCD8F730B7askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc
Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net:
Subject: My Beef with EvilBile Ed
All you have to do is not read it. Problem solved.
But that could be construed as <gasp> tolerance! That's unchristian.
Well, yeah. I thought about that _after_ I hit send :/
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Brought to you by the letter 'H'
Without it, you'd be eating doug nuts.
.
|
|
|
| User: "William Klee" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
15 Feb 2004 12:33:17 AM |
|
|
In article <Xns948EE9AB43201askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc Smartass
<gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote:
William Klee <fnord2k@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:130220040417087258%fnord2k@yahoo.com:
In article <Xns948DCD8F730B7askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>, Doc
Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote:
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in
news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net:
Subject: My Beef with EvilBile Ed
All you have to do is not read it. Problem solved.
But that could be construed as <gasp> tolerance! That's unchristian.
Well, yeah. I thought about that _after_ I hit send :/
The best thoughts are always a bit too late.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
17 Feb 2004 06:18:13 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:09:46 GMT, Doc Smartass
<gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com>, Message ID:
<Xns948DCD8F730B7askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18> wrote in alt.atheism;
dgillesp <dgillesp@pemtel.net> wrote in news:402B9FCD.19A62F18@pemtel.net:
Subject: My Beef with EvilBile Ed
All you have to do is not read it. Problem solved.
The temptation is too overwehelming for the poor deluded sot.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Wieland the Smith" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 02:59:53 PM |
|
|
dgillesp wrote:
A thousand pardons for repeating myself, but I doubt that by now many
posters on this NG feel the need for a daily dose of Evil Bible quotes.
Since they usually fall pretty much into the same category as old
B-western movies--"when you've seen one you seen 'em all."
My basic beef with the whole approach of EvilBile I explained in reply
to Ed's installment today. So please bear with this old (really old)
Christian theist and consider the following:
snip
What troubles me about so many of your "evil" quotes is your simplistic
interpretation of the ancient texts. For example, take your favorite
word "evil." Kenneth Grayston, a tutor in New Testament Language and
Literature, Didsbury College, Bristol, England, explained the biblical
use of the word [evil] as follows: "The Hebrew term ra' [evil] conveys
the factual judgement that something is bad (e.g. figs, cattle),
displeasing (e.g. a woman in the eyes of her husband), or harmful (e.g.
wild beasts, poisonous herbs, disease). Quite generally it means
anything that causes pain, unhappiness, or misery, including the
discipline of punishment sent by God [e.g. your quote above 'the evil I
have done you']. SNIP
This sheds a totally new light on the Evil Atheist Conspiracy, maby it's
not really evil in the western meaning of the word.
Can anyone of those nonexisting officers of the nonexisting evil conspiracy
explain that?
--
Wieland the Smith, AA#2040, EAC: herder of the trolls
.
|
|
|
| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 03:32:03 PM |
|
|
Wieland the Smith <renenospamschulz@gmx.net> wrote in
news:c0gpg9$16epbp$1@ID-191925.news.uni-berlin.de:
<SNIP
This sheds a totally new light on the Evil Atheist Conspiracy, maby
it's not really evil in the western meaning of the word.
Can anyone of those nonexisting officers of the nonexisting evil
conspiracy explain that?
Sorry. That is non existant classified information. We can't reveal that on a
public newsgroup.
L.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Richard" |
|
| Title: Re: My Beef with EvilBile Ed |
12 Feb 2004 11:30:25 PM |
|
|
dgillesp wrote:
If you want to make honest and truly
accurate accusations of "evil Bible" quotes, you will have to do a lot
more research instead of simply jumping to conclusions based on western
culture and language. In short, you will have to become a biblical
scholar, which obviously is not the case.
methodios (Denny))
Unfortunately, one man's scholar is another man's heretic.
One of the reasons why I became an atheist while I was growing
up was because it made absolutely no sense to me that an
omnipotent god who supposedly loved us would choose to
pass his message onto us by inspiring his followers to write
such an ambiguous text, one that has generated countless
numbers of different interpretations and disagreements
that men have fought and died over. I reached the conclusion
pretty early on that it was far more likely that the authors
of the "good" book were flawed men that were inspired by
delusions of grandeur rather than an allegedly perfect
being who just happened to be a lousy communicator.
Richard
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
