| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Nihilist" |
| Date: |
20 Jan 2005 02:37:25 AM |
| Object: |
My conversion to Christianity (part 10) |
My brothers and sisters,
Those who have read part 9 of the my-conversion series are aware that
my current work involves developing a valid and sound theological
argument for the existence of God. I want to develop an argument that
my fellow Christians can use for convincing the critically minded that
God exists.
It is with much sadness that I must concede the great difficulty--if
not the impossibility--of such a task. I feel as though I have come
face to face with an insuperable brick wall.
I dunno, maybe we can all work together and come up with something
great--get a bit of a think tank happening on these newsgroups. What
do you say?
In any event, there are still the self-induced tingling sensations and
warm-and-fuzzy feelings. You *will* feel the Holy Spirit if you open
your mind and heart.
All is not lost, and hope springs eternal.
God bless you all,
Candide Nihilist
"Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe."
-- John 4:48 (imperative)
.
|
|
| User: "Earle Jones" |
|
| Title: Re: My conversion to Christianity (part 10) |
20 Jan 2005 07:34:04 PM |
|
|
In article <41EFBA53.813DD29@nospam.net>,
dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote:
Nihilist wrote:
My brothers and sisters,
Those who have read part 9 of the my-conversion series are aware that
my current work involves developing a valid and sound theological
argument for the existence of God. I want to develop an argument that
my fellow Christians can use for convincing the critically minded that
God exists.
No such argument exists. "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst
thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven;
what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure
thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea." Job 11.7
(KJV) God is not just one object among other objects that man can prove
or disprove, test and examine. He is beyond all such arguments the
human mind can formulate. He is known only in "I-Thou" personal
relationship, and never as a phenomen to be investigated or captured by
human logic and reason.
It is with much sadness that I must concede the great difficulty--if
not the impossibility--of such a task. I feel as though I have come
face to face with an insuperable brick wall.
Sadly, there are those who absolutely insist on seeing before they will
believe. Some things have to be believed before they can be seen, the
reality of God among them. If one is not willing to take the risk of
faith, he will never know God.
I dunno, maybe we can all work together and come up with something
great--get a bit of a think tank happening on these newsgroups. What
do you say?
In any event, there are still the self-induced tingling sensations and
warm-and-fuzzy feelings. You *will* feel the Holy Spirit if you open
your mind and heart.
Faith always precedes feeling, but feelings are not reliable. They come
and go. It's the act of throwing one end of your rope up into the air
and finding that the other end has been caught and held fast by the
invisible, infinite God who wishes to connect with us.
*
It is certainly refreshing to see a truly scientific experiment
proposed! Now that's an experiment I can dig! Hold on to one end
of a rope; throw the other end into the air and see whether it is
caught and held fast. And if it is caught, we must determine
whether it is God on the other end, and not some one else. And if
it is God, we need to identify which God (The existence of many
gods is claimed by religious experts.)
I'm agonizing over where and when to do this. I certainly don't
want any of my neighbors to see me.
Perhaps we should get a group of people to perform this experiment.
That way, we could get some statistical data, rather than betting
everything on the success of one experimenter.
earle
*
.
|
|
|
| User: "dgillesp" |
|
| Title: Re: My conversion to Christianity (part 10) |
21 Jan 2005 10:37:43 AM |
|
|
Earle Jones wrote:
In article <41EFBA53.813DD29@nospam.net>,
dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote:
Nihilist wrote:
My brothers and sisters,
Those who have read part 9 of the my-conversion series are aware that
my current work involves developing a valid and sound theological
argument for the existence of God. I want to develop an argument that
my fellow Christians can use for convincing the critically minded that
God exists.
No such argument exists. "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst
thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven;
what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure
thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea." Job 11.7
(KJV) God is not just one object among other objects that man can prove
or disprove, test and examine. He is beyond all such arguments the
human mind can formulate. He is known only in "I-Thou" personal
relationship, and never as a phenomen to be investigated or captured by
human logic and reason.
It is with much sadness that I must concede the great difficulty--if
not the impossibility--of such a task. I feel as though I have come
face to face with an insuperable brick wall.
Sadly, there are those who absolutely insist on seeing before they will
believe. Some things have to be believed before they can be seen, the
reality of God among them. If one is not willing to take the risk of
faith, he will never know God.
I dunno, maybe we can all work together and come up with something
great--get a bit of a think tank happening on these newsgroups. What
do you say?
In any event, there are still the self-induced tingling sensations and
warm-and-fuzzy feelings. You *will* feel the Holy Spirit if you open
your mind and heart.
Faith always precedes feeling, but feelings are not reliable. They come
and go. It's the act of throwing one end of your rope up into the air
and finding that the other end has been caught and held fast by the
invisible, infinite God who wishes to connect with us.
*
It is certainly refreshing to see a truly scientific experiment
proposed! Now that's an experiment I can dig! Hold on to one end
of a rope; throw the other end into the air and see whether it is
caught and held fast. And if it is caught, we must determine
whether it is God on the other end, and not some one else. And if
it is God, we need to identify which God (The existence of many
gods is claimed by religious experts.)
I'm flattered that you take my post so ah...seriously. However, your comments
expose the same mindset as that of Christian fundies who are either unable or
unwilling to recognize that some realities can only be described metaphorically
and are not to be taken literally. You have confirmed my bias that fundies and
atheists have much in common.
I'm agonizing over where and when to do this. I certainly don't
want any of my neighbors to see me.
Quite unnecessary. In fact, it's best done in behind closed doors. (cf
Matthew 6.6)
Perhaps we should get a group of people to perform this experiment.
That way, we could get some statistical data, rather than betting
everything on the success of one experimenter.
Why not start by getting a group of people to interact and bond with your wife,
then compare notes to see if your relationship with her is real or only
imagined?
Denny
earle
*
.
|
|
|
| User: "Earle Jones" |
|
| Title: Re: My conversion to Christianity (part 10) |
22 Jan 2005 07:54:27 PM |
|
|
In article <41F12FD7.2FD4D077@nospam.net>,
dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote:
Earle Jones wrote:
In article <41EFBA53.813DD29@nospam.net>,
dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote:
Nihilist wrote:
My brothers and sisters,
Those who have read part 9 of the my-conversion series are aware that
my current work involves developing a valid and sound theological
argument for the existence of God. I want to develop an argument that
my fellow Christians can use for convincing the critically minded that
God exists.
No such argument exists. "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst
thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven;
what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The
measure
thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea." Job 11.7
(KJV) God is not just one object among other objects that man can
prove
or disprove, test and examine. He is beyond all such arguments the
human mind can formulate. He is known only in "I-Thou" personal
relationship, and never as a phenomen to be investigated or captured by
human logic and reason.
It is with much sadness that I must concede the great difficulty--if
not the impossibility--of such a task. I feel as though I have come
face to face with an insuperable brick wall.
Sadly, there are those who absolutely insist on seeing before they will
believe. Some things have to be believed before they can be seen, the
reality of God among them. If one is not willing to take the risk of
faith, he will never know God.
I dunno, maybe we can all work together and come up with something
great--get a bit of a think tank happening on these newsgroups. What
do you say?
In any event, there are still the self-induced tingling sensations and
warm-and-fuzzy feelings. You *will* feel the Holy Spirit if you open
your mind and heart.
Faith always precedes feeling, but feelings are not reliable. They come
and go. It's the act of throwing one end of your rope up into the air
and finding that the other end has been caught and held fast by the
invisible, infinite God who wishes to connect with us.
*
It is certainly refreshing to see a truly scientific experiment
proposed! Now that's an experiment I can dig! Hold on to one end
of a rope; throw the other end into the air and see whether it is
caught and held fast. And if it is caught, we must determine
whether it is God on the other end, and not some one else. And if
it is God, we need to identify which God (The existence of many
gods is claimed by religious experts.)
I'm flattered that you take my post so ah...seriously. However, your
comments
expose the same mindset as that of Christian fundies who are either unable or
unwilling to recognize that some realities can only be described
metaphorically
and are not to be taken literally. You have confirmed my bias that fundies
and
atheists have much in common.
I'm agonizing over where and when to do this. I certainly don't
want any of my neighbors to see me.
Quite unnecessary. In fact, it's best done in behind closed doors. (cf
Matthew 6.6)
Perhaps we should get a group of people to perform this experiment.
That way, we could get some statistical data, rather than betting
everything on the success of one experimenter.
Why not start by getting a group of people to interact and bond with your
wife,
then compare notes to see if your relationship with her is real or only
imagined?
Denny
*
My wife?
That's about the stupidest non-sequitur I've seen on these
newsgroups. Why bring my wife into the discussion?
I suggested that we try your experiment with the rope and you
counter with suggesting that we get a group of people to see whether
they can bond with my wife.
If there is some reasoning there that I missed, please explain it.
earle
*
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Richardson" |
|
| Title: Re: My conversion to Christianity (part 10) |
24 Jan 2005 06:39:16 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:04:04 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Nihilist wrote:
My brothers and sisters,
Those who have read part 9 of the my-conversion series are aware that
my current work involves developing a valid and sound theological
argument for the existence of God. I want to develop an argument that
my fellow Christians can use for convincing the critically minded that
God exists.
No such argument exists. "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst
thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven;
what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure
thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea." Job 11.7
(KJV) God is not just one object among other objects that man can prove
or disprove, test and examine. He is beyond all such arguments the
human mind can formulate. He is known only in "I-Thou" personal
relationship, and never as a phenomen to be investigated or captured by
human logic and reason.
What a silly Superpower!
And I thought the invisible girl from Fantastic Four was lame!
It is with much sadness that I must concede the great difficulty--if
not the impossibility--of such a task. I feel as though I have come
face to face with an insuperable brick wall.
Sadly, there are those who absolutely insist on seeing before they will
believe. Some things have to be believed before they can be seen, the
reality of God among them. If one is not willing to take the risk of
faith, he will never know God.
Ah well.
I do alright without it. Don't be upset on my behalf.
I dunno, maybe we can all work together and come up with something
great--get a bit of a think tank happening on these newsgroups. What
do you say?
In any event, there are still the self-induced tingling sensations and
warm-and-fuzzy feelings. You *will* feel the Holy Spirit if you open
your mind and heart.
Faith always precedes feeling, but feelings are not reliable. They come
and go. It's the act of throwing one end of your rope up into the air
and finding that the other end has been caught and held fast by the
invisible, infinite God who wishes to connect with us.
God sounds kinda creepy.
I don't think I want to connect to Him.
All is not lost, and hope springs eternal.
Without a doubt.
What if your dearest hope is to be free of God?
If God exists and is omnipotent then the situation is hopeless.
At least earthly Tyrants can be killed.
Mark.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: My conversion to Christianity (part 10) |
20 Jan 2005 04:58:13 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:04:04 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Sadly, there are those who absolutely insist on seeing before they will
believe.
Or at least insist on being given a rational reason to believe.
Some things have to be believed before they can be seen, the
reality of God among them. If one is not willing to take the risk of
faith, he will never know God.
One will, however, go through one's life being conned by every bunco
artist that he runs into, including the ones selling religion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "dgillesp" |
|
| Title: Re: My conversion to Christianity (part 10) |
21 Jan 2005 10:41:37 AM |
|
|
raven1 wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:04:04 -0500, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Sadly, there are those who absolutely insist on seeing before they will
believe.
Or at least insist on being given a rational reason to believe.
Some things have to be believed before they can be seen, the
reality of God among them. If one is not willing to take the risk of
faith, he will never know God.
One will, however, go through one's life being conned by every bunco
artist that he runs into, including the ones selling religion.
A little discretion is always in order.
Denny
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
