| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
18 Apr 2006 07:42:11 PM |
| Object: |
My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
As someone who has alternated between atheism, agnosticism and
Catholicism (brief), here's been my experience:
2/06: Read some "Christian" books. The ideas looked appealing.. ie: be
a good person, believe in "god" and you will be saved. So I did this
and, believe it or not, was relatively happy. (This was when in my
blissful ignorance I had no idea there were such sites as infidels.org
and other sources of lucid opinion on the historicity of JC.)
LATEST: Talked to other Christians about my worries. The response was
mixed; some were supportive; others felt that I must be a closet
atheist since I am so purposely denying my faith. The truth is, I need
to feel it in my heart.. there has been so much debate on the topic of
the Bible that I can't ignore what I read----it has shattered what
little belief I had.
So Christian support has been out. To say that you in your heart doubt
the Bible's truth because of what you are reading NOT because you
really want to doubt, is an insult in their eyes. To tell them that
you can't avoid coming across some really dam*ing (sorry) material
doubting the veracity of the holy book is to speak a language totally
foreign to them. And if you deny that you feel anything even though
you *want* to, is to arouse suspicion that you somehow hold a deep dark
secret and there must be a reason why you were not granted the gift of
faith.
Anyhow, I came away with the conclusion that there is no support for
Christians who experience REAL DOUBT, who want to be Christian but
can't because the emotions aren't there. (Da Vinci Code isn't what did
it for me---it was some obscure website with some theories on why the
Bible might not be true).
What you guys might find amusing is, I laughably felt a brief moment of
"God's presence", or so I thought................ I was retching over
this and "something sort of came over me"-----this was around the
beginning of March. I thought Ah, this is "faith." Well.. it turned
out it was an illusion. At the end of that same week that it occurred,
I felt my crappy self again. And since then I have not felt any more
"divine inspiration."
My conclusion from all this? I believe that much of what people think
are "the spirit" coming through them are simply the product of
neurochemistry----the pleasure receptors rush in at precisely the
moment that you experience a "revelation". It is sort of like being in
love (dopamine?) or having a strong desire for something. (My own
'experience' -if you call it that- was heightened by several cups of
strong Starbucks espresso. Also, I was on my way to a play I was
looking forward to.) Doh? Coincidence?
And last but not least: During my brief period of "Christianity", I
experienced a sort of 'selective processing.' I knew it at the time,
but since I was so "happy" for rediscovering something I thought was
sound, I dismissed it. And I even told a few of my friends at the
time-----in retrospect I realize I was unconsciously exaggerating
things. Could that be what happened in the Gospels? How easy it is to
speak in hyperbole when you want so badly to grasp at something but
still know in your heart it may be random coincidence.
Thank you for listening.
C
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
18 Apr 2006 10:07:04 PM |
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wrote in
news:1145407331.003539.89080@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
As someone who has alternated between atheism, agnosticism and
Catholicism (brief), here's been my experience:
2/06: Read some "Christian" books. The ideas looked appealing.. ie: be
a good person, believe in "god" and you will be saved. So I did this
and, believe it or not, was relatively happy.
Believing in something because you would like it to be true is being
dishonest to yourself. It is a good idea to check extravagant claims and
see if they are supported by verifiable evidence.
Klazmon.
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
18 Apr 2006 10:38:10 PM |
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wrote:
<snip exceptional post with which I totally identify, since it
essentially happened to me too.>
must be a reason why you were not granted the gift of
faith.
</snip>
The reason you have no faith? Because your ancient ancestors were
leaders, not followers.
The article below has some basic information on it, but at school in
psychology class, we read an article that was much, much more in-depth
and went into why this gene might exist. I don't know where the teacher
got the article, but it had more information than the one below. In the
one at school, it said that the gene exists because it was beneficial
for individuals on lower social orders. The theory goes that it first
appeared when man was living in tribes and troops and whatnot. It
proliferated because lower ranked individuals that had it found it easy
to and fullfilling to follow the orders of a more powerfull individual,
the tribe leader. The lower ranked one revered and respected and obeyed
the dominant one because it was more powerful. Hence, the lower ranked
individuals with that gene lived longer, because they were protected by
the alpha. The alpha didn't have it because it wouldn't be beneficial.
Alphas who had it were less effective leaders because they were prone
to seeking out and obeying a powerful individual, so alphas with the
gene were unsuccessful and lower ranks with it were more successful.
The school article goes on to show that through history this remained
true. So many antique cultures showed their rulers as being god-like,
and their gods as being fabulously powerful men. Why? Because they had
the faith gene that predisposed them to seeking a higher power to
rever. Through history, it continued to be beneficial for leaders not
to have a faith gene and followers to have one.
But that's all over now. The president/ Prime Minister is not a god.
You don't have the faith in your boss to follow him into battle. So
people with this gene turn to something else, because they're
genetically predisposed to feel more comfortable with something larger
than themselves over them. Hence, they turn to religion, and their
selected god takes the place of their alpha, or god-king or
whathaveyou. They have faith because it seems natural to them to
believe and desire a higher power. But that means that people who are
born without the gene have no such predisposition to fawn over a
powerful individual. And that's where the article below comes in.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=16378
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
18 Apr 2006 09:27:14 PM |
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wrote:
<snip>
I went through that same thing, including the "experiencing god" thing,
which was like tears in my eyes, but later I realized it was exactly the
same feeling you get when you realize you've been duped.
Christians won't help you with reality. They've accepted fantasy as a
kind of alternate reality. Granted, most of them are just along for the
ride, doing what their family, friends, and neighbors are doing.
They're the kind that rarely pray, go to church on Easter Sunday, and
check the box marked Catholic or Protestant. I'm talking about the ones
who have made church a big part of their lives. To them, questioning
your faith is a dire sin. "We don't ask those kind of questions around
here" I was told, after which the subject was quickly changed. That
only made things worse for me, and when I finally did get an answer out
of one of the elders, it was *****. They think their little
bibleworld is real, but for something that is supposed to be as real as
your left kneecap, religion sure doesn't stand up to scrutiny, does it?
What got me started down the Road to Reason was the simple claim each
and every religion and denomination thereof makes. "Welcome to the One
True Faith". Not only do you have the classic standoff between
Christians and Muslims, both of whom claim the other will burn in hell
forever, but the different cults within each religion are also at each
other's throats with this claim. Not one of them can supply a
well-rounded logical argument as to why they are the One True Way, while
all the others are false. The way I see it, they can't all be right.
But they *can* all be wrong.
It's obvious by the "balance" of religious orientation in America's
prisons that Christians don't hold the corner on the market when it
comes to morality. I can't believe they can make the claim that an
atheist has no moral backbone, especially in light of the horrifically
bloody history of Christianity, right up to present day. The fact that
they make the claim that morality comes from God through the bible makes
me wonder what these people would be like if there was no religion.
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
Well, good luck. I hope it doesn't take long to come to a full
understanding of your life's direction.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Member, Earthquack's 666 club
Supervisor, EAC department of little adhesive-backed shiny plastic
L-shaped doo-dads to add feet to Jesus Fish department
It is safe to say that the bible contains equal amounts of fact, history
and pizza.
-Penn Jillette
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| User: "Nosterill" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 04:32:14 AM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 04:45:07 PM |
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Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 05:55:30 PM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
On the other hand, you won't have to see it when the revolution comes.
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
Yeah dude. Geekery kicks *****.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
.
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 07:33:32 PM |
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Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
On the other hand, you won't have to see it when the revolution comes.
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
Yeah dude. Geekery kicks *****.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
true.dat (lol) The geeks shall inherit the earth. Here's a mini-geek
test for you:
(2B||!2B)
Q0) What does this say?/ Why is it funny?
Q1) Though it's funny, it doesn't make sense in use and would create an
error. Why?
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 08:34:18 PM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
On the other hand, you won't have to see it when the revolution comes.
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
Yeah dude. Geekery kicks *****.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
true.dat (lol)
*groans*
The geeks shall inherit the earth. Here's a mini-geek
test for you:
(2B||!2B)
Q0) What does this say?/ Why is it funny?
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them.
Q1) Though it's funny, it doesn't make sense in use and would create an
error. Why?
Multiplication requires asterisks. Other than that, it's valid C (I
checked), if a bit pointless.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 08:39:53 PM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
On the other hand, you won't have to see it when the revolution comes.
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
Yeah dude. Geekery kicks *****.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
true.dat (lol) The geeks shall inherit the earth. Here's a mini-geek
test for you:
I feel like this ought to have initiated a geek-off or something (a la
"Hackers"), but I'm afraid I'm not good at distinguishing what ought to
be geek knowledge or not. I'm usually mildly surprised when nongeeks
don't get something I say.
.
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 10:54:17 PM |
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Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
On the other hand, you won't have to see it when the revolution comes.
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
Yeah dude. Geekery kicks *****.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
true.dat (lol) The geeks shall inherit the earth. Here's a mini-geek
test for you:
I feel like this ought to have initiated a geek-off or something (a la
"Hackers"), but I'm afraid I'm not good at distinguishing what ought to
be geek knowledge or not. I'm usually mildly surprised when nongeeks
don't get something I say.
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say. My school
has one of the lowest averages in the province. Not a bright lot as a
general rule. My friends and I are generally considered the Smart
People who can generally be trusted to be Right About Anything. I've
learned to love jokes next to no one gets. That's why I walk around in
shirts with the Firefox logo eating the IE logo with "Firefox pwns."
underneath, or my "(2B||!2B) That is the question." shirt, or the one
with.... "chown -R ./base" on it. Translate that one! :)
Ha! Geek-off. That sounds so awesome. You know, I've yet to locate a
copy of "Hackers" anywhere? It's sad.
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 11:19:07 PM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
On the other hand, you won't have to see it when the revolution comes.
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
Yeah dude. Geekery kicks *****.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
true.dat (lol) The geeks shall inherit the earth. Here's a mini-geek
test for you:
I feel like this ought to have initiated a geek-off or something (a la
"Hackers"), but I'm afraid I'm not good at distinguishing what ought to
be geek knowledge or not. I'm usually mildly surprised when nongeeks
don't get something I say.
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Not a bright lot as a
general rule. My friends and I are generally considered the Smart
People who can generally be trusted to be Right About Anything.
Hmm, in my high school there was a sort of class difference between the
"smart kids" and the "dumb kids", and there wasn't much respect between
the two.
I've
learned to love jokes next to no one gets. That's why I walk around in
shirts with the Firefox logo eating the IE logo with "Firefox pwns."
underneath, or my "(2B||!2B) That is the question." shirt, or the one
with.... "chown -R ./base" on it. Translate that one! :)
`chown -R .us ./base`
Don't forget the group to whom all the base belong.
Though, I would also add:
`chmod -R g+rwx ./base`
To ensure that you get proper permissions too.
Ha! Geek-off. That sounds so awesome. You know, I've yet to locate a
copy of "Hackers" anywhere? It's sad.
I don't have it, but some guys at the Academy
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MASMC) had a ripped copy, so it was a
regular viewing.
.
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
20 Apr 2006 04:31:53 PM |
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Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful. By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
I'm just disappointed that I won't get to see what advances in space
investigation and exploration, gaming technology, and computer science
will be made when I'm dead...
On the other hand, you won't have to see it when the revolution comes.
Yeah. I'm very, very geeky....
Yeah dude. Geekery kicks *****.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/28
true.dat (lol) The geeks shall inherit the earth. Here's a mini-geek
test for you:
I feel like this ought to have initiated a geek-off or something (a la
"Hackers"), but I'm afraid I'm not good at distinguishing what ought to
be geek knowledge or not. I'm usually mildly surprised when nongeeks
don't get something I say.
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
Not a bright lot as a
general rule. My friends and I are generally considered the Smart
People who can generally be trusted to be Right About Anything.
Hmm, in my high school there was a sort of class difference between the
"smart kids" and the "dumb kids", and there wasn't much respect between
the two.
There's just kind of a mutal ignoring, unless the "dumb kids" need
something.
I've
learned to love jokes next to no one gets. That's why I walk around in
shirts with the Firefox logo eating the IE logo with "Firefox pwns."
underneath, or my "(2B||!2B) That is the question." shirt, or the one
with.... "chown -R ./base" on it. Translate that one! :)
`chown -R .us ./base`
Don't forget the group to whom all the base belong.
Yeah, that was a typo. My shirt does have the group on it.
Though, I would also add:
`chmod -R g+rwx ./base`
To ensure that you get proper permissions too.
Yeah, but that would be too long for on a shirt.
Ha! Geek-off. That sounds so awesome. You know, I've yet to locate a
copy of "Hackers" anywhere? It's sad.
I don't have it, but some guys at the Academy
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MASMC) had a ripped copy, so it was a
regular viewing.
Cool. :)
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
20 Apr 2006 05:30:43 PM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
[]
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
I don't know about the IEP part, but other than that, it's essentially
the same idea here too.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
As in a newt, or is this some crazy slang I'm not getting?
[]
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
20 Apr 2006 10:35:38 PM |
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Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
[]
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
I don't know about the IEP part, but other than that, it's essentially
the same idea here too.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
As in a newt, or is this some crazy slang I'm not getting?
[]
En effet is French for indeed, truly, that sort of thing. Literaly
translates "in effect".
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
20 Apr 2006 11:32:42 PM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
[]
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
I don't know about the IEP part, but other than that, it's essentially
the same idea here too.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
As in a newt, or is this some crazy slang I'm not getting?
[]
En effet is French for indeed, truly, that sort of thing. Literaly
translates "in effect".
Woops. I read that as "an effet".
http://www.answers.com/effet#copyright
.
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
21 Apr 2006 05:31:51 PM |
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Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
[]
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
I don't know about the IEP part, but other than that, it's essentially
the same idea here too.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
As in a newt, or is this some crazy slang I'm not getting?
[]
En effet is French for indeed, truly, that sort of thing. Literaly
translates "in effect".
Woops. I read that as "an effet".
http://www.answers.com/effet#copyright
But you got better? :)
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
21 Apr 2006 06:33:59 PM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
[]
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
I don't know about the IEP part, but other than that, it's essentially
the same idea here too.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
As in a newt, or is this some crazy slang I'm not getting?
[]
En effet is French for indeed, truly, that sort of thing. Literaly
translates "in effect".
Woops. I read that as "an effet".
http://www.answers.com/effet
But you got better? :)
Thankfully so. I've certainly learned my lesson regarding the poor
reading abilities of salamandrids.
.
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| User: "Omicron Machine" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
22 Apr 2006 11:56:31 PM |
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Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
[]
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
I don't know about the IEP part, but other than that, it's essentially
the same idea here too.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
As in a newt, or is this some crazy slang I'm not getting?
[]
En effet is French for indeed, truly, that sort of thing. Literaly
translates "in effect".
Woops. I read that as "an effet".
http://www.answers.com/effet
But you got better? :)
Thankfully so. I've certainly learned my lesson regarding the poor
reading abilities of salamandrids.
Are you sure "salamandrids" is word?
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
23 Apr 2006 10:57:48 AM |
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Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
Omicron Machine wrote:
[]
I'm actually sort of used to people not getting what I say.
I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten what I say, but in normal
high school, I hung out with "gifted" students, but other than that I
was sort of out of the whole social scene, on occasion attaching to a
group for maybe a couple weeks.
Gifted? Here 'gifted' means you went to a "smart" school in elementary
school, then in high school they filled a in box in black on your
report card, which says IEP beside it. o you mean gifted as in
talented?
I don't know about the IEP part, but other than that, it's essentially
the same idea here too.
My school has one of the lowest averages in the province.
Canadian, eh?
Indeed. Or, en effet. :)
As in a newt, or is this some crazy slang I'm not getting?
[]
En effet is French for indeed, truly, that sort of thing. Literaly
translates "in effect".
Woops. I read that as "an effet".
http://www.answers.com/effet
But you got better? :)
Thankfully so. I've certainly learned my lesson regarding the poor
reading abilities of salamandrids.
Are you sure "salamandrids" is word?
It refers to members of family Salimandridae. I'm not sure if it's a
word, strictly speaking, but I did find it used several places, so it's
common enough for me.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
23 Apr 2006 05:41:26 PM |
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On 19 Apr 2006 02:32:14 -0700, "Nosterill" <robin@davinoptronics.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Uncle Vic wrote:
<snip>
Finally, I dare to conjecture not a single Christian has pondered the
meaning of eternal life. I like to ask them what they will be doing for
the first 45,387,211,490,038 years of their eternal afterlives. Also,
considering eternity is infinite, and there is definitely a finite
number of things a human can do, adding the fact that there is a finite
number of times each of these things can be done before one becomes
downright suicidally bored with them, there *will* come a time when you
will become painfully, suicidally bored with your afterlife. It will
happen, mark my words, because it is a product of finite numbers of
years. Let's assign a very large number to be on the safe side, 600
billion years. That's a very long time, but it is only a minute
fraction of eternity. So it's not just a possibility, or even a
probability, but a matter of time before you become painfully,
suicidally bored with your life - to the point where you just can't face
another day. How do you get out? You can't, you are immortal. It
reminds me of the movie "Death Becomes Her", where in the end the girls
must endure their eternal lives with smelly rotting flesh dripping off
their bones, limbs falling off, etc. I just can't imagine why anyone
would want to live forever.
I well remember going through that argument with my mother, way back in
my early doubting days. I said that an eternity of anything with no
possibility of a way out even by suicide would be Hell, not Heaven. She
told me that I would be changed, so that it would all be wonderful.
Then there's even less [than zero] point in bothering with the drooling
idiocy.
By
my reasoning that changed person wouldn't be "me" at all - the real me
would have died with my body. I moved into full atheism shortly after
that, and I've been comfortable with that view for 35+ years now.
The world of reality is not a bad place once you stop trying to find
something else that isn't real.
You'd think they'd learn after; The Tooth Faerie, The Easter Bunny,
Santa Claus and myraid other deceptions....
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
19 Apr 2006 05:16:28 PM |
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wrote:
As someone who has alternated between atheism, agnosticism and
Catholicism (brief), here's been my experience:
2/06: Read some "Christian" books. The ideas looked appealing.. ie: be
a good person, believe in "god" and you will be saved. So I did this
and, believe it or not, was relatively happy. (This was when in my
blissful ignorance I had no idea there were such sites as infidels.org
and other sources of lucid opinion on the historicity of JC.)
LATEST: Talked to other Christians about my worries. The response was
mixed; some were supportive; others felt that I must be a closet
atheist since I am so purposely denying my faith. The truth is, I need
to feel it in my heart.. there has been so much debate on the topic of
the Bible that I can't ignore what I read----it has shattered what
little belief I had.
So Christian support has been out. To say that you in your heart doubt
the Bible's truth because of what you are reading NOT because you
really want to doubt, is an insult in their eyes. To tell them that
you can't avoid coming across some really dam*ing (sorry) material
doubting the veracity of the holy book is to speak a language totally
foreign to them. And if you deny that you feel anything even though
you *want* to, is to arouse suspicion that you somehow hold a deep dark
secret and there must be a reason why you were not granted the gift of
faith.
Anyhow, I came away with the conclusion that there is no support for
Christians who experience REAL DOUBT, who want to be Christian but
can't because the emotions aren't there. (Da Vinci Code isn't what did
it for me---it was some obscure website with some theories on why the
Bible might not be true).
What you guys might find amusing is, I laughably felt a brief moment of
"God's presence", or so I thought................ I was retching over
this and "something sort of came over me"-----this was around the
beginning of March. I thought Ah, this is "faith." Well.. it turned
out it was an illusion. At the end of that same week that it occurred,
I felt my crappy self again. And since then I have not felt any more
"divine inspiration."
My conclusion from all this? I believe that much of what people think
are "the spirit" coming through them are simply the product of
neurochemistry----the pleasure receptors rush in at precisely the
moment that you experience a "revelation". It is sort of like being in
love (dopamine?) or having a strong desire for something. (My own
'experience' -if you call it that- was heightened by several cups of
strong Starbucks espresso. Also, I was on my way to a play I was
looking forward to.) Doh? Coincidence?
And last but not least: During my brief period of "Christianity", I
experienced a sort of 'selective processing.' I knew it at the time,
but since I was so "happy" for rediscovering something I thought was
sound, I dismissed it. And I even told a few of my friends at the
time-----in retrospect I realize I was unconsciously exaggerating
things. Could that be what happened in the Gospels? How easy it is to
speak in hyperbole when you want so badly to grasp at something but
still know in your heart it may be random coincidence.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you for your insight. Never having been a believer myself, I find
stories like your fascinating. It's interesting to me that the only
ones I can see who can articulate what faith is are the ones who have
lost it.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
18 Apr 2006 09:37:10 PM |
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wrote:
As someone who has alternated between atheism, agnosticism and
Catholicism (brief), here's been my experience:
2/06: Read some "Christian" books. The ideas looked appealing.. ie: be
a good person, believe in "god" and you will be saved. So I did this
and, believe it or not, was relatively happy. (This was when in my
blissful ignorance I had no idea there were such sites as infidels.org
and other sources of lucid opinion on the historicity of JC.)
It is a nice story, provided you don't think too deeply about it. Once
you consider that Jesus is supposedly saving us from himself, it begins
to appear more and more twisted. If god decides to forgive us
(ignoring, of course, that the whole reason he's forgiving us is for
something he tricked our *ancestors* into), but decides that if we
don't accept it (for whatever reason), then we're going to a lake of
fire where there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth. The saddest
thing is that Christians don't see the problem with that.
LATEST: Talked to other Christians about my worries. The response was
mixed; some were supportive; others felt that I must be a closet
atheist since I am so purposely denying my faith. The truth is, I need
to feel it in my heart.. there has been so much debate on the topic of
the Bible that I can't ignore what I read----it has shattered what
little belief I had.
I had a similar, yet different, experience that was a major nail in the
coffin of my belief. I had been having difficulty regarding the fact
that I could see no change in me that could be attributed to a god, but
of course I didn't mention this for fear of the very reaction you
described. Now, I had actually made friends with some people very high
up in my church, and thus was present at a meeting in which the pastor
actually talked about how he was failing to see the "fruits of the
Spirit" in himself, and considered that a challenge to overcome. I was
floored. Here is a guy that is having almost the *exact* same problems
I'm having, and he's up there teaching everybody how great this
nonsense is. At first I took it as a sign that I wasn't so odd, but I
later came to the conclusion that we were failing to detect the
"fruits" because they weren't there to be had.
So Christian support has been out. To say that you in your heart doubt
the Bible's truth because of what you are reading NOT because you
really want to doubt, is an insult in their eyes. To tell them that
you can't avoid coming across some really dam*ing (sorry) material
We're all (okay most of us) grown ups. We can handle it. Especially
when it's used in appropriate context and not just a fucking
intensifier.
doubting the veracity of the holy book is to speak a language totally
foreign to them.
Of course. To them God is as real as the walls around you, and to doubt
it is to shut your eyes. This is, I believe, the fundamental disconnect
when atheists and Christians try to talk. They can't comprehend of the
need to establish their god.
And if you deny that you feel anything even though
you *want* to, is to arouse suspicion that you somehow hold a deep dark
secret and there must be a reason why you were not granted the gift of
faith.
I completely understand. It's tough to face, in yourself or in others.
Anyhow, I came away with the conclusion that there is no support for
Christians who experience REAL DOUBT, who want to be Christian but
can't because the emotions aren't there. (Da Vinci Code isn't what did
it for me---it was some obscure website with some theories on why the
Bible might not be true).
Oh there's support, but they don't know how to deal with it. "Just
trust in God." They don't realize the problem is you can't anymore. You
can't trust in something that failed you.
What you guys might find amusing is, I laughably felt a brief moment of
"God's presence", or so I thought................ I was retching over
this and "something sort of came over me"-----this was around the
beginning of March. I thought Ah, this is "faith." Well.. it turned
out it was an illusion. At the end of that same week that it occurred,
I felt my crappy self again. And since then I have not felt any more
"divine inspiration."
I had a couple of those in late middle school, early high school. An
interesting experiment is to try to produce the feelings in yourself. I
haven't done it in about two or two and a half years, but I was
manufacturing emotions to the point of changing the entire way my body
felt (hot, cold, numb, intensely aware). If you have difficulty getting
yourself in the right frame of mind, any kind of "spiritual" literature
should do the trick with a little suspension of disbelief. I haven't
been able to reproduce the magnitude of experiences, but it's not
surprising, considering Baptist churches have been in the business of
producing emotional experiences for longer than I have.
My conclusion from all this? I believe that much of what people think
are "the spirit" coming through them are simply the product of
neurochemistry----the pleasure receptors rush in at precisely the
moment that you experience a "revelation". It is sort of like being in
love (dopamine?) or having a strong desire for something. (My own
'experience' -if you call it that- was heightened by several cups of
strong Starbucks espresso. Also, I was on my way to a play I was
looking forward to.) Doh? Coincidence?
An excellent description, I'd say.
And last but not least: During my brief period of "Christianity", I
experienced a sort of 'selective processing.' I knew it at the time,
but since I was so "happy" for rediscovering something I thought was
sound, I dismissed it. And I even told a few of my friends at the
time-----in retrospect I realize I was unconsciously exaggerating
things.
I don't think I did much unconscious exaggeration. It was very
conscious, but then, I'm always very conscious of what I say. I said
what I thought I was supposed to say. I manufactured the experiences I
thought were appropriate. I think to some degree I fooled myself into
thinking it was real, but that didn't change the fact that I had to
work at it.
I'm actually very bad at conversation and social situations, but
apparently I got the rules of goddery down pat, and was considered
something of a model example.
Could that be what happened in the Gospels? How easy it is to
speak in hyperbole when you want so badly to grasp at something but
still know in your heart it may be random coincidence.
It's also possible that the Gospel writers believed they were writing a
mythology, not necessarily a literal account.
Thank you for listening.
Sure thing. I hope you don't mind reading my somewhat long response.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
18 Apr 2006 08:04:18 PM |
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On 18 Apr 2006 17:42:11 -0700,
need_proof_of_jesus_resurrection@yahoo.com in news message
<1145407331.003539.89080@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> wrote:
As someone who has alternated between atheism, agnosticism and
Catholicism (brief), here's been my experience:
2/06: Read some "Christian" books. The ideas looked appealing.. ie: be
a good person, believe in "god" and you will be saved. So I did this
and, believe it or not, was relatively happy. (This was when in my
blissful ignorance I had no idea there were such sites as infidels.org
and other sources of lucid opinion on the historicity of JC.)
LATEST: Talked to other Christians about my worries. The response was
mixed; some were supportive; others felt that I must be a closet
atheist since I am so purposely denying my faith. The truth is, I need
to feel it in my heart.. there has been so much debate on the topic of
the Bible that I can't ignore what I read----it has shattered what
little belief I had.
So Christian support has been out. To say that you in your heart doubt
the Bible's truth because of what you are reading NOT because you
really want to doubt, is an insult in their eyes. To tell them that
you can't avoid coming across some really dam*ing (sorry) material
doubting the veracity of the holy book is to speak a language totally
foreign to them. And if you deny that you feel anything even though
you *want* to, is to arouse suspicion that you somehow hold a deep dark
secret and there must be a reason why you were not granted the gift of
faith.
Anyhow, I came away with the conclusion that there is no support for
Christians who experience REAL DOUBT, who want to be Christian but
can't because the emotions aren't there. (Da Vinci Code isn't what did
it for me---it was some obscure website with some theories on why the
Bible might not be true).
What you guys might find amusing is, I laughably felt a brief moment of
"God's presence", or so I thought................ I was retching over
this and "something sort of came over me"-----this was around the
beginning of March. I thought Ah, this is "faith." Well.. it turned
out it was an illusion. At the end of that same week that it occurred,
I felt my crappy self again. And since then I have not felt any more
"divine inspiration."
My conclusion from all this? I believe that much of what people think
are "the spirit" coming through them are simply the product of
neurochemistry----the pleasure receptors rush in at precisely the
moment that you experience a "revelation". It is sort of like being in
love (dopamine?) or having a strong desire for something. (My own
'experience' -if you call it that- was heightened by several cups of
strong Starbucks espresso. Also, I was on my way to a play I was
looking forward to.) Doh? Coincidence?
And last but not least: During my brief period of "Christianity", I
experienced a sort of 'selective processing.' I knew it at the time,
but since I was so "happy" for rediscovering something I thought was
sound, I dismissed it. And I even told a few of my friends at the
time-----in retrospect I realize I was unconsciously exaggerating
things. Could that be what happened in the Gospels? How easy it is to
speak in hyperbole when you want so badly to grasp at something but
still know in your heart it may be random coincidence.
Thank you for listening.
No problem.
Sure it would be nice if there really were a supernatural being that
personally cared about you. The problem is that there isn't and very
few people are willing to admit this to themselves. That is the
reason you don't get support from Christians. Doubt can not be
allowed because they fear losing their own beliefs. The illusion is
preferable to reality.
Welcome to reality.
PS: You don't need to use asterisks here. We've seen all the letters
already and don't find any of them objectionable.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Liz, you like most people do not want to have faith in
things which have no basis in reality. -- josalt
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: My experience with "christ" - (vent) |
18 Apr 2006 10:06:46 PM |
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Welcome to the real world....life's a *****, and then you die.
So you might as well have some fun while you're alive.
Go buy some old Monty Python videos...and watch them....
Jim
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