| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"*** Rob Wade ***" |
| Date: |
26 Apr 2006 01:54:57 PM |
| Object: |
My Genes Made Me Do It |
My Genes Made Me Do It
Fr. Thomas Williams
To celebrate Holy Week and Easter, the United Church of Christ (UCC)
produced an attention-grabbing television ad highlighting its inclusive
policies. Viewers watch an "intolerant" church rejecting - or
rather, literally ejecting - a black mother, a gay couple, an Arab,
and a person using a walker. As each tries to sit in a church pew, he
or she is sent flying by an ejector seat. The ad contrasts the
inclusive UCC with the ejecting church: "The United Church of Christ:
no matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you're
welcome here."
This is, in many ways, a wonderful message. It strikes a chord with us
Americans in our conviction that all should be welcome, none rejected.
The inscription on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty, penned by
American poet Emma Lazarus in 1883, sums up American open-heartedness:
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe
free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the
homeless, tempest-tost to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
More to the point, wasn't it Christ himself who welcomed the
"wretched refuse" of his time, associating with publicans and
adulterers, lepers, prostitutes, and the whole offal of Palestine? He
and his disciples were from the wrong side of the tracks, the
Palestinian outback of Galilee - a powerful message for the rich and
famous of his time and ours. He was fiercely criticized for
fraternizing with outcasts, and disparagingly dubbed a "friend of tax
collectors and sinners." Isn't this absolute inclusiveness
essential to the Christian message?
Yet I suspect the UCC ad had a more specific criticism in mind. I am
unaware of any church in America that turns away blacks, or that has a
policy against Arabs or handicapped persons. There are, however, a
number of Christian churches that consider homosexual behavior to be
sinful. By sneaking the gay couple in between the African-American
woman and the Arab-American, the UCC disingenuously equates racial
discrimination with moral principle.
There is a difference between a church saying "We welcome all
persons" and "We welcome all behavior." After all, two things
distinguish Christian belief: a body of doctrine and a moral code.
Following Jesus entails both. Jesus welcomed prostitutes, but he never
welcomed prostitution. He was soft on adulterers, but unyielding on
adultery. After forgiving the adulterous woman, in fact, he adds: "Go
and sin no more." And the tax collector Zacchaeus, on encountering
Jesus, promises to pay back all those he has cheated - fourfold.
Jesus never welcomed cheating, but he did welcome reformed cheaters.
This is not just a matter of semantic hair-splitting. Jesus came to
call sinners but to condemn sin, much as a doctor heals sick people but
eradicates sickness.
There is a problem with identifying people with their choices. Thieves
are welcome in the church not as thieves, but as human persons. When
Jesus tells the chief priests and elders that "the tax collectors and
the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you"
(Matthew 21:31), he is not winking at thievery and prostitution. He is
responding, rather, to their willingness to acknowledge their errors
and to change.
The Church is absolutely inclusive toward persons (all are invited to
enter) but not toward ideas or behavior. If our "inclusiveness"
means that we are no longer able or willing to distinguish between good
and bad behavior and to make universal moral judgments like "wife
beating is bad," then we have effectively abandoned morality.
The UCC might respond that homosexuality is genetically determined.
Science is ambivalent on the subject, and studies contradict one
another. Yet, regardless of the biological component to homosexuality,
the UCC would be missing the point. The fact of the matter is, we all
are teeming with inclinations and tendencies - some good, some bad.
The whole idea of self-mastery and virtue is to sort through those
tendencies and to harness them for good. Sometimes we succeed and
sometimes we fail, but it beats throwing in the towel.
People have always looked for scapegoats for their wrongdoing.
Justifications and rationalizations are part and parcel of human
conduct. The difference is, where people in the past often blamed
others, or their upbringing, now they blame their genes. Few today
would join comedian Flip Wilson in saying "the devil made me do
it," but plenty seem ready to say, "My DNA made me do it." Such
abdication of personal responsibility crushes the transcendence of the
human person.
Christianity is essentially inclusive. Christians believe that Jesus
came to call sinners - all sinners - and to die for us so that we
might have life. All are invited, none excluded. Yet he also taught
about right and wrong, and distinguished between good behavior and bad.
No one is in a position to throw stones, but in good conscience we
cannot turn the Gospel's moral message on its head.
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 05:24:44 PM |
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*** Rob Wade *** wrote:
I am
unaware of any church in America that turns away blacks
But there used to be. And many of them claimed that they weren't
objecting to a race or to any intrinsic or genetic property. They were
objecting to a BEHAVIOR (let me say again: behavior): integration. They
believed that whites should have their own churches, and blacks shoud
have their own churches, and that God didn't want the two to mix.
They also objected to, and were trying to protect against, "race
mingling" - two people of different races getting married. They quoted
Biblical chapter and verse, as well as "natural law" and "common sense"
to "prove" this BEHAVIOR was immoral. (They even managed to make it
illegal in many states.) Being black or being white may be a question
of genes, but a black person marrying a white person is most
definitiely a behavioral choice. Some Christian groups still object to
it. (Bob Young University reluctantly abandoned their policy against
interracial dating - yup, another BEHAVIOR - just recently, because it
was getting in the way of their ability to hob-nob with politicians.)
Is any of this sounding familiar?
If you want to compare being gay to being a thief (or something worse),
instead of comparing it to interacial relationships, that's your
business. But the UCC have used the eyes, ears, and brains God gave
them, actually spent time with everyday, ordinary gay people, and
realized they're nothing like thieves. Or liars. Or child molestors.
Considered as a group (and compared to other groups, like heterosexuals
or red-heads), gays are no more likely to harm or exploit unwilling
victims - as opposed to thieves, say. And they looked at gays in
committed relationships and realized how ABSOLUTELY ORDINARY those
relationshps could be - gay couples argue over money, fall asleep in
front of the TV, take care of each other when they're sick, and so on,
just like straight couples.
And so UCC realized that gays should be treatedly equally, and that
they were being given a raw deal by much of society - especially, sadly
enough, religious society. So they started reaching out to gays in
order to do something about it. To which I say, thank God!
It has nothing to do with genetics, or with whether being gay is
intrinsic or not (although it does seem to be at least as intrinsic as
being left-handed or right-handed, another difference once subject to
prejudice and discrimination). In this case, that argument is something
of a red herring. No, it has to do with looking fairly, honestly, and
without preconceptions at your neighbors, and seeing them for what they
are - perfectly decent, hardworking people who fall in love with
members of their own sex instead of members of the opposite sex. (Just
like there are some people who fall in love with members of a different
race, instead of their own race.) And who have been subject to hell on
earth for it.
God gave you eyes, ears, a brain, and, hopefully, a modicum of
compassion. The UCC uses theirs; you can use yours, if you choose.
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 05:26:12 PM |
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*** Rob Wade *** wrote:
I am
unaware of any church in America that turns away blacks
But there used to be. And many of them claimed that they weren't
objecting to a race or to any intrinsic or genetic property. They were
objecting to a BEHAVIOR (let me say again: behavior): integration. They
believed that whites should have their own churches, and blacks shoud
have their own churches, and that God didn't want the two to mix.
They also objected to, and were trying to protect against, "race
mingling" - two people of different races getting married. They quoted
Biblical chapter and verse, as well as "natural law" and "common sense"
to "prove" this BEHAVIOR was immoral. (They even managed to make it
illegal in many states.) Being black or being white may be a question
of genes, but a black person marrying a white person is most
definitiely a behavioral choice. Some Christian groups still object to
it. (Bob Young University reluctantly abandoned their policy against
interracial dating - yup, another BEHAVIOR - just recently, because it
was getting in the way of their ability to hob-nob with politicians.)
Is any of this sounding familiar?
If you want to compare being gay to being a thief (or something worse),
instead of comparing it to interacial relationships, that's your
business. But the UCC have used the eyes, ears, and brains God gave
them, actually spent time with everyday, ordinary gay people, and
realized they're nothing like thieves. Or liars. Or child molestors.
Considered as a group (and compared to other groups, like heterosexuals
or red-heads), gays are no more likely to harm or exploit unwilling
victims - as opposed to thieves, say. And they looked at gays in
committed relationships and realized how ABSOLUTELY ORDINARY those
relationshps could be - gay couples argue over money, fall asleep in
front of the TV, take care of each other when they're sick, and so on,
just like straight couples.
And so UCC realized that gays should be treatedly equally, and that
they were being given a raw deal by much of society - especially, sadly
enough, religious society. So they started reaching out to gays in
order to do something about it. To which I say, thank God!
It has nothing to do with genetics, or with whether being gay is
intrinsic or not (although it does seem to be at least as intrinsic as
being left-handed or right-handed, another difference once subject to
prejudice and discrimination). In this case, that argument is something
of a red herring. No, it has to do with looking fairly, honestly, and
without preconceptions at your neighbors, and seeing them for what they
are - perfectly decent, hardworking people who fall in love with
members of their own sex instead of members of the opposite sex. (Just
like there are some people who fall in love with members of a different
race, instead of their own race.) And who have been subject to hell on
earth for it.
God gave you eyes, ears, a brain, and, hopefully, a modicum of
compassion. The UCC uses theirs; you can use yours, if you choose.
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| User: "Dionisio" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 07:34:18 PM |
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*** Rob Wade *** wrote:
I am unaware of any church in America that turns away blacks
World Church of the Creator
White supremacist "church" lead by Matthew Hale in East Peoria, Illinois.
or that has a policy against Arabs
See above.
or handicapped persons.
Aren't ALL Christian churches supposed to do that? (Leviticus 21:17-24,
Deuteronomy 23:1-6)
--
"If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed."
--Voltaire
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| User: "Bonnie B" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 07:42:45 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:34:18 GMT, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of Dionisio
<moc-rr-thgisniTA@5ellimd.com>
*** Rob Wade *** wrote:
I am unaware of any church in America that turns away blacks
World Church of the Creator
White supremacist "church" lead by Matthew Hale in East Peoria, Illinois.
Mr. Hale got sent to the federal pen a while back for making bomb
threats or some such crap. He got life without parole.
I think his cult/sect/whatever went belly-up after that.
Oh, and I have the distinct displeasure of having met Matthew Hale (he
was a violist, I kid you not).
The nicest thing anyone ever said about him was, "For god's sakes, he
irons his blue jeans! That alone makes him evil incarnate." (And no, I
am not the person who said that).
or that has a policy against Arabs
See above.
or handicapped persons.
Aren't ALL Christian churches supposed to do that? (Leviticus 21:17-24,
Deuteronomy 23:1-6)
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 02:28:29 PM |
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*** Rob Wade *** wrote:
My Genes Made Me Do It
Fr. Thomas Williams
To celebrate Holy Week and Easter, the United Church of Christ (UCC)
produced an attention-grabbing television ad highlighting its inclusive
policies. Viewers watch an "intolerant" church rejecting - or
rather, literally ejecting - a black mother, a gay couple, an Arab,
and a person using a walker. As each tries to sit in a church pew, he
or she is sent flying by an ejector seat. The ad contrasts the
inclusive UCC with the ejecting church: "The United Church of Christ:
no matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you're
welcome here."
This is, in many ways, a wonderful message.
It's also a lie.
RS
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| User: "Boy Toy" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 06:02:57 PM |
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On 26 Apr 2006 12:28:29 -0700, "Richard Smol" <richard.smol@gmail.com>
wrote in message
<1146079708.897867.39150@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
*** Rob Wade *** wrote:
My Genes Made Me Do It
Fr. Thomas Williams
To celebrate Holy Week and Easter, the United Church of Christ (UCC)
produced an attention-grabbing television ad highlighting its inclusive
policies. Viewers watch an "intolerant" church rejecting - or
rather, literally ejecting - a black mother, a gay couple, an Arab,
and a person using a walker. As each tries to sit in a church pew, he
or she is sent flying by an ejector seat. The ad contrasts the
inclusive UCC with the ejecting church: "The United Church of Christ:
no matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you're
welcome here."
This is, in many ways, a wonderful message.
It's also a lie.
RS
They didn't say what denomination the "ejecting church" was, did they?
Does the UCC not welcome the peoples/groups depicted? I don't know.
They could have been comparing themselves to, say, some Southern
Baptist churches I've known.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 10:41:46 PM |
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On 26-Apr-2006, "Richard Smol" <richard.smol@gmail.com> wrote:
*** Rob Wade *** wrote:
My Genes Made Me Do It
Fr. Thomas Williams
To celebrate Holy Week and Easter, the United Church of Christ (UCC)
produced an attention-grabbing television ad highlighting its inclusive
policies. Viewers watch an "intolerant" church rejecting - or
rather, literally ejecting - a black mother, a gay couple, an Arab,
and a person using a walker. As each tries to sit in a church pew, he
or she is sent flying by an ejector seat. The ad contrasts the
inclusive UCC with the ejecting church: "The United Church of Christ:
no matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you're
welcome here."
This is, in many ways, a wonderful message.
It's also a lie.
Really? the UCC *doesn't* accept everyone?
How do you know they don't?
Susan
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 10:47:57 PM |
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who gives a ***** it is all a fake fairytale anyways, religion is for
fools that cant think for themselves. religion is for weak minded
fools, now I will go take a ***** and wipe with my favorite ASSWIPE, the
bible.
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| User: "Sasha" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 02:10:14 PM |
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Christianity is essentially inclusive.
The only thing fundamentalist Christians hate more than homosexuals or
Atheists are black or arab people.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 02:16:10 PM |
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"Sasha" <scironi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146078614.519619.114260@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Christianity is essentially inclusive.
The only thing fundamentalist Christians hate more than homosexuals or
Atheists are black or arab people.
"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do. "
Anne Lamott
--
Kathryn
a.a # 2216
In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people
very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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| User: "Sailor Saturn" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 02:19:01 PM |
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"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:Rd2dnWWrkbdmW9LZRVnysQ@bt.com...
"Sasha" <scironi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146078614.519619.114260@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Christianity is essentially inclusive.
The only thing fundamentalist Christians hate more than homosexuals or
Atheists are black or arab people.
"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do. "
Anne Lamott
That is a great quote.Seriously.
_L_
--
Kathryn
a.a # 2216
In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people
very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
http://www.kriho.com/jackson/
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
27 Apr 2006 12:12:27 AM |
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kathryn wrote:
"Sasha" <scironi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146078614.519619.114260@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Christianity is essentially inclusive.
The only thing fundamentalist Christians hate more than homosexuals or
Atheists are black or arab people.
"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it
turns out that God hates all the same people you do. "
Anne Lamott
Oh, man! That's a *GREAT* quote! I'm so .sigging this! 8-)
--
*****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*---------------------------------------------------*
* "You can safely assume that you've created God in *
* your own image when it turns out that God hates *
* all the same people you do." --Anne Lamott *
*****************************************************
--
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| User: "Boy Toy" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 07:46:14 PM |
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On 26 Apr 2006 12:10:14 -0700, "Sasha" <scironi@gmail.com> wrote in
message <1146078614.519619.114260@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Christianity is essentially inclusive.
The only thing fundamentalist Christians hate more than homosexuals or
Atheists are black or arab people.
Oh no. Blacks are allowed their own fundie churches. Separate but
equal, of course. It's a special right granted them by the *real*
fundies. Like god, *real* fundies are white.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
26 Apr 2006 05:58:06 PM |
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In article <1146077697.508137.193090@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"*** Rob Wade ***" <rob_c_wade_3@yahoo.com> wrote:
The fact of the matter is, we all
are teeming with inclinations and tendencies - some good, some bad.
The whole idea of self-mastery and virtue is to sort through those
tendencies and to harness them for good. Sometimes we succeed and
sometimes we fail, but it beats throwing in the towel.
So Rob. For you, a few questions.
1) When did you DECIDE to be heterosexual?
2) What exactly makes gay sex "bad"?
3) Why are you posting someone else's work, apparently without
permission?
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: My Genes Made Me Do It |
27 Apr 2006 12:11:27 AM |
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*nemo* wrote:
In article <1146077697.508137.193090@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"*** Rob Wade ***" <rob_c_wade_3@yahoo.com> wrote:
The fact of the matter is, we all
are teeming with inclinations and tendencies - some good, some bad.
The whole idea of self-mastery and virtue is to sort through those
tendencies and to harness them for good. Sometimes we succeed and
sometimes we fail, but it beats throwing in the towel.
So Rob. For you, a few questions.
1) When did you DECIDE to be heterosexual?
2) What exactly makes gay sex "bad"?
3) Why are you posting someone else's work, apparently without
permission?
Methinks "Rob" doth protest too much!
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