my messages for critique

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"David Dalton"
Date:	02 Dec 2003 04:36:04 PM
Object:	my messages for critique

I am claiming to be similar to past religious figures but am
attempting to explain my unique patterns of inspiration
at least partly by science. Moreover I figured I can't
just say out of the blue (even with said patterns and
certain unique experiences) that I am e.g. like Taliesin
but must have some at least partly new/for the day
type of messages.
So for now on my web page I am pushing certain
non-denominational main messages but not the details
of my evolving personal (and I am not recruiting) spiritual
path. I hope that at least 75% of my main messages are
acceptable as is to atheists, agnostics and humanists on
here, but in any case my main purpose in posting here was
to ask you to look at said messages and say either
on here or by e-mail to my off-campus address in the
header (which I read on Saturdays) or both which
messages you disagree with, whether any other need
editing for clarity, and whether there are any
significant ones you think might be missing (which
I would reference to you if I added them unless
you preferred not).
Said messages are on
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html
and its subpages
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/un.html
and
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/extinction.html
which can be clicked on from the first one.
Now I suspect the points of differing will mainly be:
1. the Extinction Reel one (though I now say I no longer
firmy believe in that but say it could be true) and
2. the one saying that past pagan and non-pagan religious
figures were similar and that I am similar to them and
3. maybe some will say there is neither an all-powerful
nor a perfectly good someone (whereas the related message is
that there cannot be one someone that is BOTH all-powerful
AND perfectly good)
I could dump all those plain text pages in here but
they are pretty easy to click on and I would gain
some by dumping them in here and lose others. But
anyway I would love some editorial comments if you
have five minutes to spare.
David
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	02 Dec 2003 07:15:30 PM

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:bqj44k$fom$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

I am claiming to be similar to past religious figures ... <

Why?
.

User: "nullus fides"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	02 Dec 2003 07:29:20 PM

And so upon Wed, 03 Dec 2003 01:15:30 +0000 didst Marvin Edwards speak
thusly:

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:bqj44k$fom$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

I am claiming to be similar to past religious figures ... <

Why?

Nothing good on TV?
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	02 Dec 2003 08:51:20 PM

"nullus fides" <dev@null.none> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.12.03.01.29.19.511043@null.none...

Nothing good on TV? <

I'm awaiting my Buffy Season 5 DVDs coming toward the end of December. :-)
.

User: "Ron Peterson"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	02 Dec 2003 11:01:57 PM

In talk.philosophy.humanism Marvin Edwards <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

"nullus fides" <dev@null.none> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.12.03.01.29.19.511043@null.none...

Nothing good on TV? <

I'm awaiting my Buffy Season 5 DVDs coming toward the end of December. :-)

I am surprised that you aren't following Joan of Arcadia on Friday
nights.
--
Ron
.

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	05 Dec 2003 11:52:28 AM

Marvin Edwards wrote:

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:bqj44k$fom$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

I am claiming to be similar to past religious figures ... <

Why?

Pattern analysis of my inspiration cycles from 1991 to
1994 by me in spring 1994 led to my identification of
definite unique lunar patterns and a highly probably
solar pattern. Then shortly after that I stumbled
on the fact that Welsh pagan figure Taliesin had
patterns similar to mine, and later added less definite
comparisons, both by way of the patterns and certain
unique experiences, to other figures. Said pursuit
was partly so that from their biographical data I
might be better able to plan my own cycles. However
I have done very little such comparative research
since 1997 and then hoped that others would build on
my preliminary research but if any have they have not
bothered to share their results with me.
Also no scientific skeptics have asked me to get another
MRI, e.g., to update the one I had done in late 1986
or early 1987 a few years before my first waning crescent
high of 1991. I would be happy to undergo such tests
regularly. Some should be happy to research evidence
that past pagan and nonpagan religious figures were similar
to one another and to a modern bipolar nut, me but
the experts in the field must be all rigidly religious.
But anyway you can look at me, if certain change occurs,
as a systemically sensitive species focus of change, or
if you know of biological catastrophe theory, equivalently
a nucleation point for species butterfly unfolding, perhaps.
I have also partially explained my unique cycles in terms
of science such as resonance between internal and external
cycles (so that a low level effect when in tune can have more
effect than a large effect out of tune), the lining up
of several external and internal cycles, possibly internal
biological cross-correlation of an internal reference
filter with an external long term low level cycle to produce
sudden changes occasionally, effects of lunar shadow on the
ionoshere on the geomagnetic field, effects of solar flares
on the ionosphere to induce clear sky lightning, and to
some extent the work of Michael Persinger on induction
of mystical states with magnetic and low frequency EM fields.
Also the messages on my web page are mostly rational and
non-religious in nature and should be acceptable to
most atheists, agnostics and humanists and I still would
appreciate editorial comment from you but bet most
haven't bothered to click on it.
David http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	05 Dec 2003 03:24:38 PM

Actually I did click it. What I found was clouded by the same
self-absorbtion that you display below. I'm sure you're an interesting
person, just like the rest of us, but I'm more interested in what might be
of use to everyone, in terms of general principles to live by, or insights
that help us to become better people, or new knowledge, etc. So I didn't
read very far.
"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:bqqgkt$r2u$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

Marvin Edwards wrote:

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:bqj44k$fom$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

I am claiming to be similar to past religious figures ... <

Why?

Pattern analysis of my inspiration cycles from 1991 to
1994 by me in spring 1994 led to my identification of
definite unique lunar patterns and a highly probably
solar pattern. Then shortly after that I stumbled
on the fact that Welsh pagan figure Taliesin had
patterns similar to mine, and later added less definite
comparisons, both by way of the patterns and certain
unique experiences, to other figures. Said pursuit
was partly so that from their biographical data I
might be better able to plan my own cycles. However
I have done very little such comparative research
since 1997 and then hoped that others would build on
my preliminary research but if any have they have not
bothered to share their results with me.

Also no scientific skeptics have asked me to get another
MRI, e.g., to update the one I had done in late 1986
or early 1987 a few years before my first waning crescent
high of 1991. I would be happy to undergo such tests
regularly. Some should be happy to research evidence
that past pagan and nonpagan religious figures were similar
to one another and to a modern bipolar nut, me but
the experts in the field must be all rigidly religious.

But anyway you can look at me, if certain change occurs,
as a systemically sensitive species focus of change, or
if you know of biological catastrophe theory, equivalently
a nucleation point for species butterfly unfolding, perhaps.

I have also partially explained my unique cycles in terms
of science such as resonance between internal and external
cycles (so that a low level effect when in tune can have more
effect than a large effect out of tune), the lining up
of several external and internal cycles, possibly internal
biological cross-correlation of an internal reference
filter with an external long term low level cycle to produce
sudden changes occasionally, effects of lunar shadow on the
ionoshere on the geomagnetic field, effects of solar flares
on the ionosphere to induce clear sky lightning, and to
some extent the work of Michael Persinger on induction
of mystical states with magnetic and low frequency EM fields.

Also the messages on my web page are mostly rational and
non-religious in nature and should be acceptable to
most atheists, agnostics and humanists and I still would
appreciate editorial comment from you but bet most
haven't bothered to click on it.

David http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 01:01:09 PM

Marvin Edwards wrote:

What, could you comment on these messages in detail and say why they
are self-absorbed? Much of the page is self-absorbed, indeed,
as it is a narrative of my major call and mystic experiences since
but certainly the messages are not. You must by your followup
be trying to divert people from clicking on my web page and seeing
for themselves, at http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html but
just to pound the point home I will paste my latest messages in
here, and surely you will agree with some of them or you are
not very rational and may be a psychopath. Follow up on them
and say which ones you don't agree with and why. If you have
such possibly valid editorial comment I would like to read it,
else shut up.
Main messages
My main messages (which I am pushing, but am not pushing other evolving
details of my personal spiritual path, and am not in an organized path and
am not starting one) for my people (the human species) are:
1. strive towards perfect love and if at all possible at least be loving
(exceed neutral) but sometimes the best you can do falls below neutral,
both within our species and to members of other species and to each species
as a unit and to the environment. Note, click on the Extinction Reel
imperative update/strengthening to the environment component of this
message, though I no longer firmly believe said extinction warning but it
may be true.
2. For non-atheists: if you follow a deity name (e.g. God) do not use the
name blindly but know what it means. Even if you default to an
institutional definition (e.g. the Catholic Nicene Creed) you should know
what it is. Else how can you follow it and/or its commandments if any? Many
people are just using the name God as a catchphrase without knowing what it
means, and such a use of a name may go nowhere or be grabbed. Also
different people may have different definitions of the name God so it is
confusing unless you know each other's definition.
3. there is no someone who is BOTH all-powerful AND perfectly good (but
an all-powerful someone can be fairly good and a perfectly good someone can
be fairly powerful).
4. there are many possible paths up a mountain, and many do in theory
meet or exceed (click on) partially now and potentially further
UN-determined/mediated loving standards and others could easily be adjusted
from within to do so. My suggestions for UN discussion on that sublist are
certainly derived by me from some on this main list and I push them almost
as hard.
5. not taking up a path unless it truly resonates with you, and have an
individual connection with the path and not just blindly follow; i.e. an
individual connection to the divine (or within the environment if you are
an atheist),
6. individual responsibility to be a seed of good (e.g. to grow the flame
of love within you by internal and external good thoughts and good deeds so
as to make love/goodness a larger part of all/everything where you may try
to tune to a deity defined definition of good but in practice may have to
rely on your own definition of good which may be affected by said tuning if
any)
7. believe anything that there is evidence for (but work to change it if
it is not loving) and don't believe something that there is evidence
against (but try to bring it into existence if it is loving) and feel free
to believe anything you like that is loving (not harmful) and that has no
evidence for or against it but don't shove such theories down anyone else's
throat but feel free to share the beauty of them. Of course I am pushing
these messages but I think there is some evidence for and need for them.
8. we are part of nature and not above nature whether nature (or the
environment) is defined as all/everything, the universe (space and its
contents), the earth, or the biosphere.
9. some similarities between the lives (and in many cases message overlap
to some extent too) of some past pagan and non-pagan figures; I have done
very little research in this area since 1997 but do claim I am similar to
some such past figures and present my biographical data and writings so far
so you can make the decision (though really you might not for decades).
However I don`t want glory by such a claim but merely a little backing for
my messages, i.e. you may be more likely to view such messages as inspired.
However I know some are likely to take me less seriously with such a claim.
But if you have evidence to support my theory and have a command of or like
"thou shalt not lie" you should not conceal that evidence. Also knowledge
of such similarity between past figures should lead to reduced intolerance
and lots of loving diversity.
So of that, only the ninth one mentions me, and I asked you to comment
on my messages, not the rest of the page which attempts to demonstrate
that I should be taken seriously.
Now here are the derived messages mentioned in 4 above:
UN Spiritual Summit
I think there should be a UN-sponsored global spiritual summit (which I once
said could be linked some to a similar political summit and a Beothuk wake
WOMAD festival) of representatives of all spiritual paths (including small
ones) and atheism and agnosticism and humanism which would set out a
minimum standard for spiritual paths that would meet international human
(including women) rights and environmental standards and animal rights
standards and would require tolerance of other paths also meeting the
standards. But beyond such minimum standards (which many paths exceed in
theory at least) there would be lots of loving diversity, many petals on
the rose. My suggestions so far (and you can think of your own) for agenda
items for such a summit are below, and are largely derived from the main
messages on my main Salmon web page.
1. no human sacrifice,
2. possibly no animal sacrifice but that might be debatable in cases of
non-supermarket peoples who treat the animal humanely and consume or use
the body but I lean against it personally,
3. no clitorectomy,
4. no discrimination against women, children, or men (but e.g. it may be
acceptable to have same sex sweat lodges or even same sex organizations
such as Dianic Wicca); and ordination of both genders in paths that include
both genders.
5. ramble (will edit): no discrimination against divinely-given same sex
sexuality or even divinely given sexuality in general (except rape and sex
with children and sex with animals), or against those who choose a celibate
lifestyle as long as that sexual repression does not lead to child abuse. I
also tend to lean toward supporting allowance of committed polyamoric
relationships such as those described on newsgroup alt.polyamory (but such
no longer forms an active part of my longings these days). I tend to lean
to some sort of commitment/connection before sex but not necessarily
marriage immediately but perhaps the prospect (thought/possibility) of
marriage especially if the divine sexual fire does turn out to be strong
both ways; and use of birth control before marriage (and for family
planning after marriage; and condoms for protection against HIV and other
STDs). It is time we dropped old military pronouncements designed to
increase population for military purposes or religious path strength; we
now have a population of nearly 6 billion. Such pronouncements include
those against loving compatible adult same sex relationships, against
masturbation, against birth control, I think against committed marriage
groups of more than two, and against education of girls and women and
employment of women. But I am against sex where there is not love and lust
both ways since that is like a form of cold rape, and I am against sex as a
commodity or leverage tool though I know some individuals are forced into
that and I hope that that will become no longer necessary. But don`t have
sex unless there is love and true lust both ways else I think it can cause
negative effects, and I include lustless sex for procreation only in that
(but two gays having sex and passing semen spiritually/reverentially to two
lesbians who have sex and then have children would e.g. be OK).
6. no environmental abuse (or at least strive towards that)
7. no abuse of other species (ideally be at least above neutral to other
species as a whole species and strive to be so to individual members of
other species)
8. strive to love (be at least above neutral) to all members of our own
species, but loving non-loving individuals may include curing them rather
than just turning the other cheek in all cases, but ideally methods other
than war can be used for
persuasion/healing/transformation/mediation/negotiation
9. no intolerance of other paths that meet the standard, and that there
are many paths up the spiritual/moral mountain and that someone else in
another loving path won't suffer for eternity for not being in a certain
path
10. again acceptance of birth control, and I lean towards acceptance of
early abortion but that is debatable and sangomas may know more about that
(whether a certain added mom aura glint/glow comes in at conception or e.g.
2 lunar months after, or something like that?),
11. no enforced enrolment in a path but only enrolment after an educated
choice (feeling of resonance with the path/individual connection with the
divine or if atheist, maybe within the environment),
12. individual responsibility to be a seed of good,
13. I would lobby for recognition of similarities in the lives of some
past pagan and non-pagan religious figures and probably in their messages
though I haven't delved as much into that yet.
However I am not lobbying for anyone to accept the other elements of my
evolving individual polytheistic neopagan religion and I am currently not
in an organized path and am not trying to start one, but I am a
non-denominational individual/eclectic, and am also human. (I'll edit this
page more next week but must run now.)
OK, also here is the Extinction Reel message mentioned in 1 in the
first set of (main) messages:
Extinction Reel
(a reel is a type of fast dance or associated celtic tune and I think
Newfoundland fiddler Emile Benoit's Cancer Waltz, composed not long before
his death from prostate cancer, was originally titled Cancer Reel but I may
be wrong, i.e. cancer slows you down; also I meant to play on the words
reel and real of course)
Now here is the biggest message I have been constrained and inspired
(flat/gut feeling only, so like running into wall while considering
alternatives, to get to this stage from my earlier also
inspired/constrained/self-derived milder messages, so I do not get direct
revelation, or voices in the head, but perhaps some do and if enough
scientists and mystics independently get similar hard dates to avoid
projected negative effects to other species then that will believed though
the religious threat of advance extinction may not be believed by
scientists) to.
Here it is:
LOVE is the nice one (but curing/transformation by LOVE is possible; but it
is not all-powerful).
ALL is the enforcer (and is all-powerful and the ultimate creator but is not
perfect and is not perfectly good).
Explanation: a monotheist could just follow (strive towards) LOVE within the
constraints of ALL or follow ALL's command to strive towards its definition
of perfect love/goodness (LOVE if it is a someone) as ALL itself may be
doing with out help. The Catholic Nicene creed definition of their God
seems to map as far as I can see to ALL (all powerful and ultimate creator,
ALL[t] creates ALL[t+Delta t]) but some Christians seem to have a
definition of their God that is LOVE or a nearest match. But there cannot
be a someone who is all powerful, ultimate creator and perfectly good and
if some Christians have that as their description of their God I believe
they may get two nearest matches of LOVE and ALL but the Nicene Creed does
not specify perfectly good.
Message: Unless we make major environmental changes very very quickly our
species will be rendered extinct before our actions to that point or their
projected continuing effects beyond then can cause irreparable damage to
all the other species. That is we will not be rendered extinct by the
environmental changes but otherwise before said environmental changes
become (or project to become) too severe for other species.
That's it, short but not sweet.
I am not normally that short, blunt and doomsday prophet-sort but that flat
feeling was I guess me being judged by ALL and I was found to be too
lenient, but again it is more a gut/intuition feeling, not voice in the
head revelation, and I can explain it to atheists (systemic feedback
through me, etc.) and organized religions if asked but won't here since it
will get too long winded; and perhaps IUGG and AGU scientists and
revelation sorts --- schizophrenics, schizoaffectives, dreamers, intense
meditators, diviners, channelers, psychics, drug users and more can provide
hard numbers, especially if they all line up.
I personally add that by getting through this we can lead to heaven on earth
but that is based on my past stuff not current gut feeling, which is to
just get through it. Now all I have to do is get the big religions and
politicians and corporate leaders to listen to me (but I am not starting a
religion) and others who independently have similar messages though maybe
not with the pre-extinction warning component.
Now since then I have become no longer a firm believer in said extinction
warning but on the other hand I neither believe it to be true nor believe
it to be false, so there is still a chance it could be true.
---------------------
David
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 01:46:45 PM

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:bqvtdl$fqj$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

... You must by your followup be trying to divert people from clicking on

my web page and seeing for themselves, at
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html ... <
Oh puh-lease! People are free to do as they wish. You asked for a comment
and I gave you one. A word of advice: you should probably examine your
tendency to 1) imagine yourself a religious leader and 2) believe others
think you important enough to try to divert people from your web page. It
sounds a bit paranoid.

1. strive towards perfect love and if at all possible at least be

loving (exceed neutral) but sometimes the best you can do falls below
neutral ... <
Rather complicated version of "love your neighbor as yourself". Certainly
good advice, regardless of the source.

2. For non-atheists: if you follow a deity name (e.g. God) do not use

the name blindly but know what it means. Even if you default to an
institutional definition (e.g. the Catholic Nicene Creed) you should know
what it is. Else how can you follow it and/or its commandments if any? Many
people are just using the name God as a catchphrase without knowing what it
means, and such a use of a name may go nowhere or be grabbed. Also
different people may have different definitions of the name God so it is
confusing unless you know each other's definition. ... <
Okay. I'm bored. I'd suggest you post one "message" under one subject
heading, rather than your whole "bible". That way, people who are
specifically interested in that subject can feel free to comment, without
feeling they have to read a book and comment on everything in it. Just a
suggestion.
.

User: "John Popelish"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 02:40:41 PM

Marvin Edwards wrote:
(snip)

... Many people are just using the name God as a catchphrase
without knowing what it means,

(snip)
You have a gift for understatement.
Have you ever heard the expression, "No *****, Sherlock"? ;-)
--
John Popelish
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 03:04:15 PM

Uh. Marvin Edwards didn't write that. But I agree with your evaluation.
"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:3FD39078.446304F0@rica.net...

Marvin Edwards wrote:
(snip)

... Many people are just using the name God as a catchphrase
without knowing what it means,

(snip)

You have a gift for understatement.

Have you ever heard the expression, "No *****, Sherlock"? ;-)

--
John Popelish

User: "John Popelish"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 03:16:24 PM

Marvin Edwards wrote:

"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:3FD39078.446304F0@rica.net...

Marvin Edwards wrote:
(snip)

... Many people are just using the name God as a catchphrase
without knowing what it means,

(snip)

You have a gift for understatement.

Have you ever heard the expression, "No *****, Sherlock"? ;-)

Uh. Marvin Edwards didn't write that. But I agree with your evaluation.

I apologize for messing up the attributions.
--
John Popelish
.

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 05:44:51 PM

John Popelish wrote:
<snip>
But it's Pope lush, right, with all that red wine? :-)
Regarding the paranoid comments about people diverting
others away from my web page here and on talk.environment
(more so there), well if my signs of being like a major
religious figure were true then some in the inner circles
of some religious organizations might know that and want
to divert attention from me (even though many of my main
messages are rational humanist environmental and animal
rights sorts of messages and only a few are religious;
and I am not in a religious organization and am not
starting one and am not pushing details of my evolving
individual personal spiritual path working theories but
just some main messages for my people [the human species];
and I don't want followers but people to think for themselves,
which could include their rejecting some of my messages of course;
and I say to the religious that I guess who has inspired me [well
to atheists I say systemic feedback effects] but I might be wrong,
perhaps I am inspired by your deiti[es] if the signs are right
for you; that is related to my saying to a religious person on
alt.music.s-mclachlan in the Dear God thread [she
covered XTC's song Dear God once] that well Shelley
was an atheist but he did some beautiful poems so
surely you would say he was inspired by your God even
if he didn't believe in it; but I haven't done any
really good poems yet, maybe next week. :-) ).
Well, that was a ramble.
Also the point about my convoluted law to love being
just equivalent to love your neighbour, well sure
except most people narrowly interprete that as just
people of their path, culture, language, country,
caste, class, and/or circle of family, friends and
neighbours and indeed a Northern Ireland Catholic
may treat a Northern Ireland Protestant worse than
a Catholic-raised atheist. So I wanted to spell it
out that you have to strive to love (love, or be above
neutral, if possible) both your neighbours, other
members of the human species, members of other species,
each species as a whole (i.e. sometimes you cut a tree
but try to be good to the tree species) and to the
environment in general. However given that you still
I guess do have to give a bit of an edge to your own
species members and within that your close associates.
Also loving your enemy can include Gandhi style passivism
or Jesus style turning the other cheek but should also
include taking curative action to prevent psychopaths
from doing more damage and ideally to transform them
towards more loving states but not by torture or capital
punishment but probably some incarceration and mental
health treatment if such is available for psychopaths
(and some psychopaths, past and present, like to be
cult leaders) by now.
That was another ramble, but anyway if asked who
am I with I will say I am a member of the human
species within the system of species within the
environment, and my messages (which I might elegantize
next week in poem form if I have a waning crescent
high, the ark at the end of years of adversity,
and perhaps augment) are for my species in this
Global Village. I suppose if any environmental,
animal rights, gay rights, humanist, feminist
or other organization or group of organizations
believed my patterns/signs and liked my messages
they could use me as a "global shaman" figurehead
sort but none, and no media, have indicated an
interest so far. But past figures such as Solomon
(Solomon's sciences?) and Finn [Fionn] (Finn's lore?)
have been involved in both poetry, religion, science,
and lovemaking and their regions had periods of
prosperity during and for a while after their lives
(until boundary effects kicked in I guess) and I
am attempting to do the same thing for the whole
planet but of course am still an ultra minor figure
for now hoping to instigate a wave of seeds of
good in many paths worldwide such that I will be one of
many and won't become too famous and can still go to
the pub and get on to loads of non-religious areas
that interest me while continuing to dabble in
religion a bit I guess.
Scientific atheism is one of my root paths and I
would say I was atheist from about age 12 up to
age 27.5 (but I did then invoke Gaia for protection
when I was in a sealed hospital and got scared
but still wasn't too religious until I turned 32
in 1996). Another of my root paths is science
fiction and fantasy. Another is family morals
and Newfoundland and Canadian and UN law. But
I also did get a Catholic education and was
influenced some by Christian basics, and some
by mythology and neopaganism. Now under the
definition of neopagan as "one who is polytheistic
and believes he or she is part of nature and is
not connected by teaching lineage to ancient
religious traditions" I can still be considered
neopagan but often neopagan is taken to mean
Wiccan or highly Wiccan-influenced and I am only
slightly Wiccan influenced. So sometimes I will
just say I am individual/eclectic and sometimes
individual/eclectic neopagan and I do have some in
common with environmentalist rational scientific atheists,
humanists, deists, pantheists, unitarianian-universalists,
newagers, neopagans, and to some degree traditional
pagans, heathen (Asatru), tribal religionists,
shamanistic religionists, traditional aboriginal
religions, probably some liberal environmentalist
members of major religions too though some rather
than saying they like say 80% of my messages and
that the rest are crap will try to avoid having any
coverage of any of the messages (which might improve
next week) so that the 20% will get no exposure.
Like for a blinkered Christian to admit that Herne hanging
on a tree and Odin hanging on a tree was pretty much
the same as Jesus hanging on a cross is a bit tough.
Thanks for the feedback so far, and again I am
open to getting an MRI or FMRI or other scan including
if I do have a waning crescent high next week (or
before and then during and then after) and also
when I do my consciousness expansion/linking stuff
during the scan to see what lights up if anything,
and of course tests to see if I can actually boost
some depressed people even a little.
DRD
.

User: "John Popelish"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 08:35:25 PM

David Dalton wrote:

John Popelish wrote:
<snip>

But it's Pope lush, right, with all that red wine? :-)

I really do enjoy wine and might drink just a bit more than is good
for me, but the name is three syllables, po pel' ish.

Regarding the paranoid comments about people diverting
others away from my web page here and on talk.environment
(more so there), well if my signs of being like a major
religious figure were true then some in the inner circles
of some religious organizations might know that and want
to divert attention from me (even though many of my main
messages are rational humanist environmental and animal
rights sorts of messages and only a few are religious;
and I am not in a religious organization and am not
starting one and am not pushing details of my evolving
individual personal spiritual path working theories but
just some main messages for my people [the human species];
and I don't want followers but people to think for themselves,
which could include their rejecting some of my messages of course;
and I say to the religious that I guess who has inspired me [well
to atheists I say systemic feedback effects] but I might be wrong,
perhaps I am inspired by your deiti[es] if the signs are right
for you; that is related to my saying to a religious person on
alt.music.s-mclachlan in the Dear God thread [she
covered XTC's song Dear God once] that well Shelley
was an atheist but he did some beautiful poems so
surely you would say he was inspired by your God even
if he didn't believe in it; but I haven't done any
really good poems yet, maybe next week. :-) ).

Well, that was a ramble.

Ya think?!

Also the point about my convoluted law to love being
just equivalent to love your neighbour, well sure
except most people narrowly interprete that as just
people of their path, culture, language, country,
caste, class, and/or circle of family, friends and
neighbours and indeed a Northern Ireland Catholic
may treat a Northern Ireland Protestant worse than
a Catholic-raised atheist. So I wanted to spell it
out that you have to strive to love (love, or be above
neutral, if possible) both your neighbours, other
members of the human species, members of other species,
each species as a whole (i.e. sometimes you cut a tree
but try to be good to the tree species) and to the
environment in general. However given that you still
I guess do have to give a bit of an edge to your own
species members and within that your close associates.
Also loving your enemy can include Gandhi style passivism
or Jesus style turning the other cheek but should also
include taking curative action to prevent psychopaths
from doing more damage and ideally to transform them
towards more loving states but not by torture or capital
punishment but probably some incarceration and mental
health treatment if such is available for psychopaths
(and some psychopaths, past and present, like to be
cult leaders) by now.

That was another ramble, but anyway if asked who
am I with I will say I am a member of the human
species within the system of species within the
environment, and my messages (which I might elegantize
next week in poem form if I have a waning crescent
high, the ark at the end of years of adversity,
and perhaps augment) are for my species in this
Global Village. I suppose if any environmental,
animal rights, gay rights, humanist, feminist
or other organization or group of organizations
believed my patterns/signs and liked my messages
they could use me as a "global shaman" figurehead
sort but none, and no media, have indicated an
interest so far. But past figures such as Solomon
(Solomon's sciences?) and Finn [Fionn] (Finn's lore?)
have been involved in both poetry, religion, science,
and lovemaking and their regions had periods of
prosperity during and for a while after their lives
(until boundary effects kicked in I guess) and I
am attempting to do the same thing for the whole
planet but of course am still an ultra minor figure
for now hoping to instigate a wave of seeds of
good in many paths worldwide such that I will be one of
many and won't become too famous and can still go to
the pub and get on to loads of non-religious areas
that interest me while continuing to dabble in
religion a bit I guess.

Scientific atheism is one of my root paths and I
would say I was atheist from about age 12 up to
age 27.5 (but I did then invoke Gaia for protection
when I was in a sealed hospital and got scared
but still wasn't too religious until I turned 32
in 1996). Another of my root paths is science
fiction and fantasy. Another is family morals
and Newfoundland and Canadian and UN law. But
I also did get a Catholic education and was
influenced some by Christian basics, and some
by mythology and neopaganism. Now under the
definition of neopagan as "one who is polytheistic
and believes he or she is part of nature and is
not connected by teaching lineage to ancient
religious traditions" I can still be considered
neopagan but often neopagan is taken to mean
Wiccan or highly Wiccan-influenced and I am only
slightly Wiccan influenced. So sometimes I will
just say I am individual/eclectic and sometimes
individual/eclectic neopagan and I do have some in
common with environmentalist rational scientific atheists,
humanists, deists, pantheists, unitarianian-universalists,
newagers, neopagans, and to some degree traditional
pagans, heathen (Asatru), tribal religionists,
shamanistic religionists, traditional aboriginal
religions, probably some liberal environmentalist
members of major religions too though some rather
than saying they like say 80% of my messages and
that the rest are crap will try to avoid having any
coverage of any of the messages (which might improve
next week) so that the 20% will get no exposure.
Like for a blinkered Christian to admit that Herne hanging
on a tree and Odin hanging on a tree was pretty much
the same as Jesus hanging on a cross is a bit tough.

Thanks for the feedback so far, and again I am
open to getting an MRI or FMRI or other scan including
if I do have a waning crescent high next week (or
before and then during and then after) and also
when I do my consciousness expansion/linking stuff
during the scan to see what lights up if anything,
and of course tests to see if I can actually boost
some depressed people even a little.

You might want to lay off a little of what you are taking, as well. A
nice glass of wine might counteract a bit of that speed or whatever it
is. ;-)
--
John Popelish
.

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 09:22:42 PM

John Popelish wrote:

You might want to lay off a little of what you are taking, as well. A
nice glass of wine might counteract a bit of that speed or whatever it
is. ;-)

Well, thanks, but I'm more sedate offline. Also the wine comment
was mainly that the Roman Catholic pope uses wine in Catholic
ritual so I wasn't implying you drank a lot or anything.
Also based on strong adverse marijuana effects during waxing gibbous
moon in May 1992 and strong adverse alcohol effects during waxing
gibbous moon in January 1993, endJuly/begAug 1993, March 1994,
January 1996, May 1996, June 1996 and July 1997 I have abstained
from alcohol from 1--9 days before full moon from after the
March 1994 incident to just before the January 1996 incident
and then for all of waxing moon from after the mid-July, 1997
incident. Since then I have often consumed a fair bit
during waning moon with no problems and have not had any
more strong waxing gibbous moon problems, just mild ones.
(I also abtstain from marijuana all the time since May 1992
though that might be safe during waning moon too.)
So anyway I won't drink tonight but full moon is tomorrow
about 5 p.m. or so here in Newfoundland (GMT - 3.5 hours)
so I could drink as early as tomorrow night but more
likely will leave it until Wednesday just because that
is a night I often go out to folk night at The Ship Pub
and sometimes to Erin's Pub afterwards since a good friend
hangs out there.
Now I haven't searched for past parallels of not
drinking 1--9 days before full moon or not during
all of waxing moon yet but maybe there is some
bartender folklore out there. But anyway in
Christian tradition Jesus changed water into
wine and someone told me that is related to
earlier stories of Hindu mystics (I'm not
sure if "avatars") changing water into wine.
Now the actual mythologized stories probably
say an actual transformation of water into wine,
but I speculation that said stories may have a
root in the practice of
changing [from drinking] water to [drinking] wine
at or just after full moon. But that is a somewhat
weak interpretation that no rigid paper-eating Christian
would place much salt it, I'm sure, and I haven't
researched the Hindu stories at all yet.
Anyway, good night, will check in here Monday or
maybe let all those wonderful replies pile up
until Tuesday,
David
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton
.

User: "John Popelish"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 11:17:01 PM

David Dalton wrote:

John Popelish wrote:

You might want to lay off a little of what you are taking, as well. A
nice glass of wine might counteract a bit of that speed or whatever it
is. ;-)

Well, thanks, but I'm more sedate offline. Also the wine comment
was mainly that the Roman Catholic pope uses wine in Catholic
ritual so I wasn't implying you drank a lot or anything.

Good.

Also based on strong adverse marijuana effects during waxing gibbous
moon in May 1992 and strong adverse alcohol effects during waxing
gibbous moon in January 1993, endJuly/begAug 1993, March 1994,
January 1996, May 1996, June 1996 and July 1997 I have abstained
from alcohol from 1--9 days before full moon from after the
March 1994 incident to just before the January 1996 incident
and then for all of waxing moon from after the mid-July, 1997
incident. Since then I have often consumed a fair bit
during waning moon with no problems and have not had any
more strong waxing gibbous moon problems, just mild ones.
(I also abtstain from marijuana all the time since May 1992
though that might be safe during waning moon too.)

Glad you cleared that up. :)
I pretty much eliminate all ill effects of alcohol by taking a B
complex pill every day. Gets rid of hangovers but also keeps me more
sober than I might otherwise be.

So anyway I won't drink tonight but full moon is tomorrow
about 5 p.m. or so here in Newfoundland (GMT - 3.5 hours)
so I could drink as early as tomorrow night but more
likely will leave it until Wednesday just because that
is a night I often go out to folk night at The Ship Pub
and sometimes to Erin's Pub afterwards since a good friend
hangs out there.

Now I haven't searched for past parallels of not
drinking 1--9 days before full moon or not during
all of waxing moon yet but maybe there is some
bartender folklore out there. But anyway in
Christian tradition Jesus changed water into
wine and someone told me that is related to
earlier stories of Hindu mystics (I'm not
sure if "avatars") changing water into wine.
Now the actual mythologized stories probably
say an actual transformation of water into wine,
but I speculation that said stories may have a
root in the practice of
changing [from drinking] water to [drinking] wine
at or just after full moon. But that is a somewhat
weak interpretation that no rigid paper-eating Christian
would place much salt it, I'm sure, and I haven't
researched the Hindu stories at all yet.

Anyway, good night, will check in here Monday or
maybe let all those wonderful replies pile up
until Tuesday,

Good night, till then.
--
John Popelish
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	08 Dec 2003 04:29:17 PM

"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:3FD4097E.5DDE41D0@rica.net...

I pretty much eliminate all ill effects of alcohol by taking a B complex

pill every day. Gets rid of hangovers but also keeps me more sober than I
might otherwise be. <
I don't drink very often, maybe once every week or two. If I may ask, what's
the type and dosage you'd recommend to be effective?
.

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	08 Dec 2003 05:32:46 PM

John Popelish wrote:

I pretty much eliminate all ill effects of alcohol by taking a B
complex pill every day. Gets rid of hangovers but also keeps me more
sober than I might otherwise be.

I take centrum forte every day and that has some B vitamins in
it but not a very high dose, and I used to take B-6 too before
bedtime and B-12 in the morning but haven't in years. It also
helps to drink a lot of water after drinking (and some people
alternate water with a drink during the night) and not drink
on an empty stomach and pace yourself (say one pint an hour)
and not drink right up to before falling asleep.
But by alcohol problems I did not mean a hangover but
alcohol triggered mixed/psychotic waxing gibbous moon
trials, so the very classic "demons of alcohol" if
you take Jesus's trial by Satan, the Buddha's by
Mara, Krishna's by the poisoned-nippled demon,
and Taliesin's imprisonment by Arianrhod (a goddess
not a demon) to be all cases like that, or equivalently
psychic death with psychic resurrection at full moon. :-)
Now since July 1997 I have during waning moon had
on one occasion 11 pints in 10 hours, another 8 pints,
another 6 pints in three hours, to no ill effect,
but that was while I was still on olanzapine to top
up my lithium. Since I came off olanzapine early this
year I again had 8 pints once or twice and 6 pints
more frequently again to no ill effect but then, still
during waning moon, after having had 8 pints on a
Wednesday to no ill effect I got cocky and on the Saturday
I think I had maybe 5 glasses of red wine at home in a
half hour and then decided to go out and drank as
noramlly so probably had with the wine the equivalent of
nine pints but with the front end loading, and walked home
25 minutes OK around 3:30 a.m. but then somehow when
fumbling for my keys passed out standing up leaning
against the door and my sister found me there around
6 a.m. when I bumped against the doorbell. Now that
did not result in a strong mental health incident but
was enough of a warning that even during waning moon
I try to restrict myself to at most four pints in
four hours and not on an empty stomach but still could
let myself slip to six pints but not eight or nine again.
But regardless, if my theory of waxing moon alcohol
avaoidance was not true, by drinking during waning moon
I would have more alcohol triggered mental health problems
then and that is not the case at all. Also from past
experiences if I do have a waning crescent high next
week I will also avoid alcohol during it since alcohol
especially during the last few days of a waning crescent
high can lead to more chance of fear/paranoia effects
after new moon and less ability towind down by new moon,
but alcohol has never triggered a waning crescent high.
Also alcohol and staying up all night during a waning
crescent high lead to more destablization and less paced creativity.
But back to the bit about demons above. A past individual
who believed in only God, Devil and humans as someones
would attribute all his or her positive mystical experiences
to God and all his or her negative mystical experiences
to Devil or in some case to trials/tests by God from which
you are supposed to learn to avoid a repetition (e.g. by
not drinking during waxing moon perhaps). In my case I
have used scientific correlations and intuition and theory
to guess at possible multiple sources of inspiration
but of course might be wrong, I might be inspired just
by the one e.g. Christian God but the inpiration remains.
Also for atheists I have said arm-waving things like I am a
systemically sensitive species focus of change if change occurs, or
a biological catastrophe theory [that's branch of nonlinear
math applied to biological systems] nucleation point
of species butterfly unfolding, if change occurs. But
you athiests might just prefer to say I am a well-educated
slackbright crackpot who has had all the pain of the world funnelled
into him on this remote (from some problems) Canadian "hilltop"
by many muses including many songwriters and has percolated,
and is still percolating, on balancing solutions.
However, e.g. Lao Tzu was supposed to have gone off into
the wilderness after delivering the Tao Te Ching right
and I once thought it was the other way around, that
he came out of the wilderness to deliver it? But there
is no nothingness outside ALL, ALL is defined by
"Is there anything outside ALL? No." and there is
no outside to ALL regardless of whether ALL is infinite
or finite. The terms "nothing" and "zero" and
"empty set" generally do not mean there is an answer
to a question but are a shorthand version of saying
there is no answer as any mathematician knowledgeable
in the history of zero will tell you.
David
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton
.

User: "John Popelish"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	09 Dec 2003 12:47:27 AM

David Dalton wrote:
(snip)

But back to the bit about demons above. A past individual
who believed in only God, Devil and humans as someones
would attribute all his or her positive mystical experiences
to God and all his or her negative mystical experiences
to Devil or in some case to trials/tests by God from which
you are supposed to learn to avoid a repetition (e.g. by
not drinking during waxing moon perhaps). In my case I
have used scientific correlations and intuition and theory
to guess at possible multiple sources of inspiration
but of course might be wrong, I might be inspired just
by the one e.g. Christian God but the inpiration remains.

(snip)
You haven't done anything to nail down two distinct possibilities.
One is your awareness of and expectations relating to the Moon, and
some actual physical effect on you by the Moon. How would you design
a double blind experiment to test between these two possibilities and
the null hypothesis?
--
John Popelish
.

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	10 Dec 2003 03:33:58 PM

John Popelish wrote:

David Dalton wrote:
(snip)

(snip)

You haven't done anything to nail down two distinct possibilities.
One is your awareness of and expectations relating to the Moon, and
some actual physical effect on you by the Moon. How would you design
a double blind experiment to test between these two possibilities and
the null hypothesis?

My determination of my lunar patterns in March 1994 based on
plotting on a lunar calendar of significant episodes from
September 1991 to March 1994 was done after the fact. Based
on that I made a prediction for a Aug/Sep94 waning crescent
high but was not very anticipatory and it came true, with
associated solar flare and clear sky lightning too. I have
anticipated more strongly at times including the end of
1991 and very often since early 1999 and nothing has happened,
and I do not believe it is possible for me to induce a
mystic waning crescent high by anticipation, and am not
strongly anticipating one next week, but will be pleasantly
surprised if it does occur and will pace myself, get at
least four hours sleep a night during it, and stay off alcohol
and caffeine during it, and wind down by new moon, to get
the most out of it without burning out.
For a double blind experiment I would have to be made unaware
of the moon's phases, perhaps by being in a cave for years,
and that is not practical.
Tidal effects are probably very small but may have some
resonant tuning cycle effect. Geomagnetic effects due
to the changing shadow of the moon on the ionosphere
are probably a good bit higher but still small. Only
when several factors including lunar and solar and
I speculate my internal cycles line up do I have
such a "imbas/awen/holy spirit" high.
So does anyone want to scientifically test me if I
should have such a high next week? I doubt my
psychiatrist (who I will see tomorrow afternoon
for my regular monthly appointment)
will though I will suggest it to him (i.e. if I have
such a high why don't we try it) but it is hard
to get scanner time at short notice.
Also John, surely you would like to try and explain and
not just dismiss my 5 waning crescent highs from Sept91
to Sept94, and my 8 waxing gibbous moon trials from
May92 to July97, and the distinct 5.5 lunar month (6
solar rotation) separation from waxing gibbous moon trial
onset to waning crescent high onset, which allowed me
to make the prediction mentioned above. It is a
unique lunar pattern, clear cut, non-anticipatory.
But no, you atheists do not want to explain religion,
just dismiss it.
(high school students dis their miss a lot)
David
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	11 Dec 2003 04:14:33 AM

Old joke: As we were walking down the city street, there was a man pounding
the sidewalks with a brick. We stopped and asked him what he was doing. "I'm
keeping the tigers away", he responded. "But there are no tigers here!", we
asserted. "Aha! You see, it must be working.", he said, as he pounded away..
There are many things which we wish to believe, to comfort ourselves in a
sometimes hazardous world. If we can explain things, then perhaps we can
control them. If we can control things, then we need no longer fear them.
Both science and superstition arise as tools to understand and control
things.
One of the news programs, perhaps "60 Minutes", explored a case where
parents of autistic children were convinced that their children could
communicate if the child put his hand on the parent's hand and guided it to
keys on a computer keyboard. Supposed professionals had said this could
work. The parents, needing to believe it, were easily convinced. When they
tried it, it seemed to be working. Their children were at last able to
"speak" to them using this approach. But this was not actually the case.
When scientists placed a long panel on the table, such that the child could
be shown something that the parent could not see, the child was "no longer"
able to communicate what he saw by moving the parent's hand. It turned out
to be the parent, unknowingly, moving their own hand, similar to the way
people experience movement on an Ouiji board.
We all probably have some irrational, superstitious beliefs that we take
comfort in. They are harmless up to a point. What better way to deal with an
irrational fear than with an irrational belief! But it is healthy to keep
aware, too, of the difference between what we think we know and what we
actually do know. And to remind ourselves from time to time of how easy it
is to convince ourselves of something we really wish to believe.
Or as the song by the Doobie Brothers says, "The wise man has the power to
reason away what seems to be, but a fool believes he sees." But enough about
my divorce... :-)
"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:br83g6$42i$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

John Popelish wrote:

David Dalton wrote:
(snip)

(snip)

You haven't done anything to nail down two distinct possibilities.
One is your awareness of and expectations relating to the Moon, and
some actual physical effect on you by the Moon. How would you design
a double blind experiment to test between these two possibilities and
the null hypothesis?

My determination of my lunar patterns in March 1994 based on
plotting on a lunar calendar of significant episodes from
September 1991 to March 1994 was done after the fact. Based
on that I made a prediction for a Aug/Sep94 waning crescent
high but was not very anticipatory and it came true, with
associated solar flare and clear sky lightning too. I have
anticipated more strongly at times including the end of
1991 and very often since early 1999 and nothing has happened,
and I do not believe it is possible for me to induce a
mystic waning crescent high by anticipation, and am not
strongly anticipating one next week, but will be pleasantly
surprised if it does occur and will pace myself, get at
least four hours sleep a night during it, and stay off alcohol
and caffeine during it, and wind down by new moon, to get
the most out of it without burning out.

For a double blind experiment I would have to be made unaware
of the moon's phases, perhaps by being in a cave for years,
and that is not practical.

Tidal effects are probably very small but may have some
resonant tuning cycle effect. Geomagnetic effects due
to the changing shadow of the moon on the ionosphere
are probably a good bit higher but still small. Only
when several factors including lunar and solar and
I speculate my internal cycles line up do I have
such a "imbas/awen/holy spirit" high.

So does anyone want to scientifically test me if I
should have such a high next week? I doubt my
psychiatrist (who I will see tomorrow afternoon
for my regular monthly appointment)
will though I will suggest it to him (i.e. if I have
such a high why don't we try it) but it is hard
to get scanner time at short notice.

Also John, surely you would like to try and explain and
not just dismiss my 5 waning crescent highs from Sept91
to Sept94, and my 8 waxing gibbous moon trials from
May92 to July97, and the distinct 5.5 lunar month (6
solar rotation) separation from waxing gibbous moon trial
onset to waning crescent high onset, which allowed me
to make the prediction mentioned above. It is a
unique lunar pattern, clear cut, non-anticipatory.
But no, you atheists do not want to explain religion,
just dismiss it.

(high school students dis their miss a lot)

David

User: "Li Mu Bai"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	11 Dec 2003 04:45:41 AM

"Marvin Edwards" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:dsXBb.10987$Ho3.8822@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Old joke: As we were walking down the city street, there was a man

pounding

the sidewalks with a brick. We stopped and asked him what he was

doing. "I'm

keeping the tigers away", he responded. "But there are no tigers

here!", we

asserted. "Aha! You see, it must be working.", he said, as he

pounded away..

There are many things which we wish to believe, to comfort ourselves

in a

sometimes hazardous world. If we can explain things, then perhaps we

can

control them. If we can control things, then we need no longer fear

them.

Both science and superstition arise as tools to understand and

control

things.

One of the news programs, perhaps "60 Minutes", explored a case

where

parents of autistic children were convinced that their children

could

communicate if the child put his hand on the parent's hand and

guided it to

keys on a computer keyboard. Supposed professionals had said this

could

work. The parents, needing to believe it, were easily convinced.

When they

tried it, it seemed to be working. Their children were at last able

"speak" to them using this approach. But this was not actually the

case.

When scientists placed a long panel on the table, such that the

child could

be shown something that the parent could not see, the child was "no

longer"

able to communicate what he saw by moving the parent's hand. It

turned out

to be the parent, unknowingly, moving their own hand, similar to the

way

people experience movement on an Ouiji board.

We all probably have some irrational, superstitious beliefs that we

take

comfort in. They are harmless up to a point. What better way to deal

with an

irrational fear than with an irrational belief! But it is healthy to

keep

aware, too, of the difference between what we think we know and what

actually do know. And to remind ourselves from time to time of how

easy it

is to convince ourselves of something we really wish to believe.

Or as the song by the Doobie Brothers says, "The wise man has the

power to

reason away what seems to be, but a fool believes he sees." But

enough about

my divorce... :-)

GREAT post.

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:br83g6$42i$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

John Popelish wrote:

David Dalton wrote:
(snip)

(snip)

You haven't done anything to nail down two distinct

possibilities.

One is your awareness of and expectations relating to the Moon,

and

some actual physical effect on you by the Moon. How would you

design

a double blind experiment to test between these two

possibilities and

the null hypothesis?

My determination of my lunar patterns in March 1994 based on
plotting on a lunar calendar of significant episodes from
September 1991 to March 1994 was done after the fact. Based
on that I made a prediction for a Aug/Sep94 waning crescent
high but was not very anticipatory and it came true, with
associated solar flare and clear sky lightning too. I have
anticipated more strongly at times including the end of
1991 and very often since early 1999 and nothing has happened,
and I do not believe it is possible for me to induce a
mystic waning crescent high by anticipation, and am not
strongly anticipating one next week, but will be pleasantly
surprised if it does occur and will pace myself, get at
least four hours sleep a night during it, and stay off alcohol
and caffeine during it, and wind down by new moon, to get
the most out of it without burning out.

For a double blind experiment I would have to be made unaware
of the moon's phases, perhaps by being in a cave for years,
and that is not practical.

Tidal effects are probably very small but may have some
resonant tuning cycle effect. Geomagnetic effects due
to the changing shadow of the moon on the ionosphere
are probably a good bit higher but still small. Only
when several factors including lunar and solar and
I speculate my internal cycles line up do I have
such a "imbas/awen/holy spirit" high.

So does anyone want to scientifically test me if I
should have such a high next week? I doubt my
psychiatrist (who I will see tomorrow afternoon
for my regular monthly appointment)
will though I will suggest it to him (i.e. if I have
such a high why don't we try it) but it is hard
to get scanner time at short notice.

Also John, surely you would like to try and explain and
not just dismiss my 5 waning crescent highs from Sept91
to Sept94, and my 8 waxing gibbous moon trials from
May92 to July97, and the distinct 5.5 lunar month (6
solar rotation) separation from waxing gibbous moon trial
onset to waning crescent high onset, which allowed me
to make the prediction mentioned above. It is a
unique lunar pattern, clear cut, non-anticipatory.
But no, you atheists do not want to explain religion,
just dismiss it.

(high school students dis their miss a lot)

David

User: "ArWeGod"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	11 Dec 2003 06:15:29 AM

"Li Mu Bai" <goddess.of.green@is.quite.keen.net> wrote in message
news:vtgin7pc8a6je1@corp.supernews.com...
<snip>

GREAT post.

<snip>
Terrible post!
How about some content? Some thoughts? Some input? Something?
(translation: Shut the ***** up!)
.

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	11 Dec 2003 03:13:07 PM

Good post, Marvin.
Of course even scientific theories are just gambling theories in
a way that work as long as they fit inside error bars but with
better data are sometimes later contradicted.
Superstitious theories likewise are creativity frameworks, like
some gambling systems, that many will stick to as long as they
apparently work (or at least sometimes appear to work, and
never disastrously fail/backfire).
So one of the main messages on http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html is
"believe anything that there is evidence for (but work to change it if it is
not loving) and don't believe something that there is evidence against (but
try to bring it into existence if it is loving) and feel free to believe
anything you like that is loving (not harmful) and that has no evidence for
or against it but don't shove such theories down anyone else's throat but
feel free to share the beauty of them. Of course I am pushing these
messages but I think there is some evidence for and need for them."
and again I am pushing my main messages but not my evolving individual
spiritual working theories/creativity framework, which I have begun
to try to rationalize in terms of science (not just pre-Newtonian
and Newtonian science but advances since, whereas some atheists
still think Euclidian and 3-D and Newtonian only, including
relativity, quantum theory, string theory, higher dimensional
mathematics, consciousness theories [e.g. on sci.psychology.consciousness
since its formation and web pages, books, and journal articles
mentioned there], catastrophe and chaos and other nonlinear theories,
systems science, and loads more) but don't have the time to
right now but plan to eventually, and again I am pushing my
main messages and not my current personal religious/SF/magickal
sorts of theories
David
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	11 Dec 2003 04:53:52 PM

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:braml3$tvs$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

Of course even scientific theories are just gambling theories in a way

that work as long as they fit inside error bars but with better data are
sometimes later contradicted. Superstitious theories likewise are creativity
frameworks, like some gambling systems, that many will stick to as long as
they apparently work (or at least sometimes appear to work, and never
disastrously fail/backfire). <
Very good. I feel I was heard. My turn to listen.

"believe anything that there is evidence for (but work to change it if it

is not loving) and don't believe something that there is evidence against
(but try to bring it into existence if it is loving) and feel free to
believe anything you like that is loving (not harmful) and that has no
evidence for or against it but don't shove such theories down anyone else's
throat but feel free to share the beauty of them. ... " <
That sounds delightful. As a slow reader with a short attention span, that
is much easier for me to deal with. You are blending the need to be loving
with the need to believe, and warning of the potential conflicts along the
way. Sounds like practical advice.
There is some fuzziness in the "... and don't believe something that there
is evidence against (but try to bring it into existence if it is loving) ".
I'm having a problem trying to imagine an example.
I find the "feel free to believe anything you like that is loving (not
harmful) and that has no evidence for or against it but don't shove such
theories down anyone else's throat but feel free to share the beauty of
them" is especially compatible with my UU orientation.
Could possibly be simplified by re-structuring into smaller sentences, as in
"Believe anything that there is evidence for, but work to change it if it is
not loving. Don't believe something that there is evidence against, but try
to bring it into existence if it is loving. Feel free to believe anything
you like that is loving (not harmful) and that has no evidence for or
against it, but don't shove such theories down anyone else's throat.
Instead, feel free to share the beauty of them. "
Hope this is the helpful critique you were looking for.
.

User: "David Dalton"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	11 Dec 2003 05:53:03 PM

Marvin Edwards wrote:

There is some fuzziness in the "... and don't believe something that there
is evidence against (but try to bring it into existence if it is loving)
". I'm having a problem trying to imagine an example.

I guess if there was an oppressive government you wouldn't believe
that it is a loving government but could try to bring a loving
government into existence (or cause the oppressive government
to become loving).

I find the "feel free to believe anything you like that is loving (not
harmful) and that has no evidence for or against it but don't shove such
theories down anyone else's throat but feel free to share the beauty of
them" is especially compatible with my UU orientation.

Could possibly be simplified by re-structuring into smaller sentences, as
in "Believe anything that there is evidence for, but work to change it if
it is not loving. Don't believe something that there is evidence against,
but try to bring it into existence if it is loving. Feel free to believe
anything you like that is loving (not harmful) and that has no evidence
for or against it, but don't shove such theories down anyone else's
throat. Instead, feel free to share the beauty of them. "

Hope this is the helpful critique you were looking for.

Sure, that is a good point, I tend to ramble in stream-of-consciousness
run on sentences sometimes so it could be broken up as you say, perhaps
into an itemized sublist even. I'm not quite (almost, though) happy
with the rhythm and sentence length variation of your edited version
though but will consider it and make my own edits on Saturday, and
will consider a balance of flow and one-unit-ness with stately
readability (as in your edited example) in other paragraphs as well,
if I have time on Saturday.
Thanks,
David
.

User: "Marvin Edwards"
Title: Re: my messages for critique	11 Dec 2003 07:01:06 PM

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:brb00v$1gf$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...

... if there was an oppressive government you wouldn't believe that it is

a loving government but could try to bring a loving government into
existence (or cause the oppressive government to become loving). <
You're speaking of having a vision of a better world and bringing that into
existence. Excellent. I understand and concur. Here's a thought I've had
along those lines:
A) In the instant that everyone choses to be in heaven (on earth) we would
be there. Everyone would simply begin acting as if we already were in the
perfect world -- being kind, expecting kindness, and, because everyone was
doing it, receiving kindness.
B) A single courageous pilgrim (which perhaps we should all be) acts in
faith, living as if already in that world, perhaps with some minimum
caution, but risking graciousness even when nothing similar is returned.
As the number of such pilgrims increases, we move from B to A.

Sure, that is a good point, I tend to ramble in stream-of-consciousness

run on sentences sometimes so it could be broken up as you say, perhaps into
an itemized sublist even. I'm not quite (almost, though) happy with the
rhythm and sentence length variation of your edited version though but will
consider it and make my own edits on Saturday, and will consider a balance
of flow and one-unit-ness with stately readability (as in your edited
example) in other paragraphs as well, if I have time on Saturday. <
Sure. But do write to satisfy your own aesthetics. I too suffer from
sentences that go on ... and on ... and on .... and sometimes I prefer the
mild pauses of a comma over the abrupt pauses of a period. So suit your
poetic sense as you see fit. I did find your writing readable despite the
long sentence.
.

User: "David V."
Title: Re: my messages for critique	07 Dec 2003 01:29:33 PM

David Dalton wrote:

Marvin Edwards wrote:

Actually I did click it. What I found was clouded by
the same self-absorbtion that you display below. I'm
sure you're an interesting person, just like the rest
of us, but I'm more interested in what might be of use
to everyone, in terms of general principles to live by,
or insights that help us to become better people, or
new knowledge, etc. So I didn't read very far.

What, could you comment on these messages in detail and
say why they are self-absorbed? ...[snip]... If you have
such possibly valid editorial comment I would like to
read it, else shut up.

My main messages (which I am pushing, but am not pushing
other evolving details of my personal spiritual path, and
am not in an organized path and am not starting one) for
my people (the human species) are:

1. strive towards perfect love and if at all possible at
least be loving...

Oh, that's why you told ME to shut up. That's very loving of
you.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
.

User: "David V."
Title: Re: my messages for critique	05 Dec 2003 12:32:58 PM

David Dalton wrote:

Marvin Edwards wrote:

"David Dalton" <dalton@nfld.com> wrote

I am claiming to be similar to past religious figures
...

Why?

Pattern analysis of my inspiration cycles from 1991 to
1994 by me in spring 1994 led to my identification of
definite unique lunar patterns and a highly probably
solar pattern.

Oh, I see the link now; they're lunatics.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
.