| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"*Mary*" |
| Date: |
27 Jun 2005 07:27:22 PM |
| Object: |
My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out of
Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
I have had two...
Both of them were in March of this year. I was clean at the time. I wasn't
expecting the first one and it is mostly a blur of someone yelling and was
wearing an orange and white jumper suit. (I found out a few days later a
really good friend of mine was asrrested, so it made sense later.) In that
one when I jumped back into my body I wasn't sure what was going on and I
was literally paralyzed. It lasted a few minutes.
The second one is more vivid. I was laying in bed and was very relaxed. I
looked up (Kind of at a down angle) and looked at my hand and I saw two of
them. I moved my second hand around and my physical hand was still laying
there on the bed, but my "spirit fingers" as I call them, were moving
around. I then turned and moved like laying on my stomach and looked at my
wall, which literally disappered and I was looking at someone standing under
a tree. I still don't know who it was, cause when you have an OBE and you
don't "get away" from your physical body soon after leaving you get drawn
back, which is what happened. This time I wasn't paralyzed and I knew
exactly what had happened.
I have been practicing more since then. Haven't had one since, but I will
be sure to let you all know if I do.
My husband said he had one a long time ago. He was in surgery and he was
floating above his body. The doctor said he had flatlined and they had to
"bring him back" but that there seemed to be a "hand" holding him right
there as it seemed like he would float away. (but that is his experience,
not mine)
This is just my experience, I don't have an exact explaination for it, all I
know is that it happened to me; although I am sure someone will have a
rational, scientific, reason for it all.
And for anyone who doesn't believe anything I have said I say..."That's
Nice."
Mary
aa# 1715
.
|
|
| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
30 Jun 2005 04:03:31 AM |
|
|
"*Mary*" <inspiringmind@bresnan.net> wrote in
news:M5ydnRMa09MbBF3fRVn-2g@bresnan.com:
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out
of Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
I have had two...
About 20 years ago I used to get them every night, scared the crap out of
me for a few years, now I only get them on odd occasions, dunno why.
Both of them were in March of this year. I was clean at the time. I
wasn't expecting the first one and it is mostly a blur of someone
yelling and was wearing an orange and white jumper suit. (I found out
a few days later a really good friend of mine was asrrested, so it
made sense later.) In that one when I jumped back into my body I
wasn't sure what was going on and I was literally paralyzed.
Thats the bit that used to scare me....just laying there, unable to move,
feeling like something is trying to pull you out of your chest !
Scary ! But eventually I learnt to just relax and go with it.
Seen some amazing things, flown thru the moon...out toward the
sun...bloody weird.
It
lasted a few minutes.
The second one is more vivid. I was laying in bed and was very
relaxed. I looked up (Kind of at a down angle) and looked at my hand
and I saw two of them. I moved my second hand around and my physical
hand was still laying there on the bed, but my "spirit fingers" as I
call them, were moving around. I then turned and moved like laying on
my stomach and looked at my wall, which literally disappered and I was
looking at someone standing under a tree. I still don't know who it
was, cause when you have an OBE and you don't "get away" from your
physical body soon after leaving you get drawn back, which is what
happened.
Sometimes I'd find myself on the ceiling looking down at myself sleeping
!
Sometimes dreams would set them off, I'd be having a dream, then in the
dream say to myself...'Hey this isn't real, I'm dreaming' then all hell
would break lose for some reason, although, 'reason', isn't really
applicable !!
On one of those I ended up looking at myself in a mirror, (Which is odd,
I never really do much of the 'Vanity' thing!), then blood started
spurting from my temples and I started spinning round and round, really
quickly, then woke up in a cold sweat....turning over and over on my
bed.....again.....weird !
This time I wasn't paralyzed and I knew exactly what had
happened.
I have been practicing more since then. Haven't had one since, but I
will be sure to let you all know if I do.
My husband said he had one a long time ago. He was in surgery and he
was floating above his body. The doctor said he had flatlined and
they had to "bring him back" but that there seemed to be a "hand"
holding him right there as it seemed like he would float away. (but
that is his experience, not mine)
This is just my experience, I don't have an exact explaination for it,
all I know is that it happened to me; although I am sure someone will
have a rational, scientific, reason for it all.
Dunno, I never found one !
And for anyone who doesn't believe anything I have said I
say..."That's Nice."
LOL !
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 09:21:54 PM |
|
|
"*Mary*" <inspiringmind@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:M5ydnRMa09MbBF3fRVn-2g@bresnan.com...
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out of
Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
Here's a question: Did your spiritual eyes blink?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "*Mary*" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 10:48:51 PM |
|
|
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
Here's a question: Did your spiritual eyes blink?
No, they didn't.
Mary
aa#1715
.
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 11:20:48 AM |
|
|
"*Mary*" <inspiringmind@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:MaGdndXjR61cVV3fRVn-2A@bresnan.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
Here's a question: Did your spiritual eyes blink?
No, they didn't.
There's a data point right there.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 09:39:44 PM |
|
|
On 27 Jun 2005, Denis Loubet dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
"*Mary*" <inspiringmind@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:M5ydnRMa09MbBF3fRVn-2g@bresnan.com...
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out of
Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
Here's a question: Did your spiritual eyes blink?
Come now Denis, no fair interjecting reason into a conversation about
spirituality. :-)
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think
there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading
around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and
praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ordog" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 07:54:40 PM |
|
|
*Mary* wrote:
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out of
Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
I have had two...
Both of them were in March of this year. I was clean at the time. I wasn't
expecting the first one and it is mostly a blur of someone yelling and was
wearing an orange and white jumper suit. (I found out a few days later a
really good friend of mine was asrrested, so it made sense later.) In that
one when I jumped back into my body I wasn't sure what was going on and I
was literally paralyzed. It lasted a few minutes.
The second one is more vivid. I was laying in bed and was very relaxed. I
looked up (Kind of at a down angle) and looked at my hand and I saw two of
them. I moved my second hand around and my physical hand was still laying
there on the bed, but my "spirit fingers" as I call them, were moving
around. I then turned and moved like laying on my stomach and looked at my
wall, which literally disappered and I was looking at someone standing under
a tree. I still don't know who it was, cause when you have an OBE and you
don't "get away" from your physical body soon after leaving you get drawn
back, which is what happened. This time I wasn't paralyzed and I knew
exactly what had happened.
I have been practicing more since then. Haven't had one since, but I will
be sure to let you all know if I do.
My husband said he had one a long time ago. He was in surgery and he was
floating above his body. The doctor said he had flatlined and they had to
"bring him back" but that there seemed to be a "hand" holding him right
there as it seemed like he would float away. (but that is his experience,
not mine)
This is just my experience, I don't have an exact explaination for it, all I
know is that it happened to me; although I am sure someone will have a
rational, scientific, reason for it all.
And for anyone who doesn't believe anything I have said I say..."That's
Nice."
Mary
aa# 1715
I did have recently quite a few "gone out of my brain" experiences
reading some of the topics here on alt.atesism. Could the explanation
be that it is related to increases in the religious fundy activity on
our NG.
OK. Sorry, this is not a fair comment to your message.
I am certain that the so called "out of body experiences" are related
to changes in brain functions which is effected by changes in the blood
circulation. Some critical factors are: available Oxygen, accumulated
CO2, blood sugar level and/or a whole range of mildly toxic metabolites
all transported by the blood. I am not an expert on the brain, but I do
belivieve that there is a rational explanation without the need for the
supernatural.
Ordog
"Beware of the man whose God is in the skies." Bernard Shaw
.
|
|
|
| User: "James" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 08:24:08 PM |
|
|
Ordog wrote:
*Mary* wrote:
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out of
Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
I have had two...
Both of them were in March of this year. I was clean at the time. I wasn't
expecting the first one and it is mostly a blur of someone yelling and was
wearing an orange and white jumper suit. (I found out a few days later a
really good friend of mine was asrrested, so it made sense later.) In that
one when I jumped back into my body I wasn't sure what was going on and I
was literally paralyzed. It lasted a few minutes.
The second one is more vivid. I was laying in bed and was very relaxed. I
looked up (Kind of at a down angle) and looked at my hand and I saw two of
them. I moved my second hand around and my physical hand was still laying
there on the bed, but my "spirit fingers" as I call them, were moving
around. I then turned and moved like laying on my stomach and looked at my
wall, which literally disappered and I was looking at someone standing under
a tree. I still don't know who it was, cause when you have an OBE and you
don't "get away" from your physical body soon after leaving you get drawn
back, which is what happened. This time I wasn't paralyzed and I knew
exactly what had happened.
I have been practicing more since then. Haven't had one since, but I will
be sure to let you all know if I do.
My husband said he had one a long time ago. He was in surgery and he was
floating above his body. The doctor said he had flatlined and they had to
"bring him back" but that there seemed to be a "hand" holding him right
there as it seemed like he would float away. (but that is his experience,
not mine)
This is just my experience, I don't have an exact explaination for it, all I
know is that it happened to me; although I am sure someone will have a
rational, scientific, reason for it all.
And for anyone who doesn't believe anything I have said I say..."That's
Nice."
Mary
aa# 1715
I did have recently quite a few "gone out of my brain" experiences
reading some of the topics here on alt.atesism. Could the explanation
be that it is related to increases in the religious fundy activity on
our NG.
OK. Sorry, this is not a fair comment to your message.
I am certain that the so called "out of body experiences" are related
to changes in brain functions which is effected by changes in the blood
circulation. Some critical factors are: available Oxygen, accumulated
CO2, blood sugar level and/or a whole range of mildly toxic metabolites
all transported by the blood. I am not an expert on the brain, but I do
belivieve that there is a rational explanation without the need for the
supernatural.
There always is.
During his most recent cancer surgery, my father also experienced an
OBE. As he was laying in the recovery room, he experienced the
sensation of floating above his body, then out of his room and down the
hall. He vividly described other patients and hospital staff that he
witnessed during this episode, several of which turned out to be true;
for instance, he saw an elderly woman being fed dinner by a nurse.
After he was released and I was helping him leave the hospital, we
passed her room and he told me the story.
At any rate, it turned out he'd had a really powerful reaction to the
morphine and hallucinated things he'd seen as we checked him into his
room the day prior. Nothing interesting.
Thumbs up to narcotics!
--
James B
aa #944
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 09:09:30 PM |
|
|
On 27 Jun 2005, James dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
During his most recent cancer surgery, my father also experienced an
OBE. As he was laying in the recovery room, he experienced the
sensation of floating above his body, then out of his room and down the
hall. He vividly described other patients and hospital staff that he
witnessed during this episode, several of which turned out to be true;
for instance, he saw an elderly woman being fed dinner by a nurse.
After he was released and I was helping him leave the hospital, we
passed her room and he told me the story.
You should have had him explain his "float-by" to the people he claimed to
see. That would have been interesting.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think
there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading
around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and
praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "John Popelish" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 08:31:17 PM |
|
|
*Mary* wrote:
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out of
Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
I have had two...
Both of them were in March of this year. I was clean at the time. I wasn't
expecting the first one and it is mostly a blur of someone yelling and was
wearing an orange and white jumper suit. (I found out a few days later a
really good friend of mine was asrrested, so it made sense later.) In that
one when I jumped back into my body I wasn't sure what was going on and I
was literally paralyzed. It lasted a few minutes.
The second one is more vivid. I was laying in bed and was very relaxed. I
looked up (Kind of at a down angle) and looked at my hand and I saw two of
them. I moved my second hand around and my physical hand was still laying
there on the bed, but my "spirit fingers" as I call them, were moving
around. I then turned and moved like laying on my stomach and looked at my
wall, which literally disappered and I was looking at someone standing under
a tree. I still don't know who it was, cause when you have an OBE and you
don't "get away" from your physical body soon after leaving you get drawn
back, which is what happened. This time I wasn't paralyzed and I knew
exactly what had happened.
I have been practicing more since then. Haven't had one since, but I will
be sure to let you all know if I do.
My husband said he had one a long time ago. He was in surgery and he was
floating above his body. The doctor said he had flatlined and they had to
"bring him back" but that there seemed to be a "hand" holding him right
there as it seemed like he would float away. (but that is his experience,
not mine)
This is just my experience, I don't have an exact explaination for it, all I
know is that it happened to me; although I am sure someone will have a
rational, scientific, reason for it all.
And for anyone who doesn't believe anything I have said I say..."That's
Nice."
Mary
aa# 1715
Thank you for putting this down so soon. I found your account very
interesting. But you must understand that such altered mental states
are very hard to study, from a rational perspective. We cannot go
along with you and see what you see, but must rely on the details that
you remember and tell. Controls are completely missing.
Before giving such experiences more credit than one would a dream, I
would want to try to think up some test for you to perform while
experiencing something like this that might eliminate some
possibilities. Of course, if you already have an investment in a
particular explanation, that would lower your objectivity as the only
witness.
But I am not determined to debunk your current explanation, so I just
thank you again for recounting this.
.
|
|
|
| User: "*Mary*" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 10:54:15 PM |
|
|
"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
Thank you for putting this down so soon. I found your account very
interesting. But you must understand that such altered mental states
are very hard to study, from a rational perspective. We cannot go
along with you and see what you see, but must rely on the details that
you remember and tell. Controls are completely missing.
Before giving such experiences more credit than one would a dream, I
would want to try to think up some test for you to perform while
experiencing something like this that might eliminate some
possibilities. Of course, if you already have an investment in a
particular explanation, that would lower your objectivity as the only
witness.
But I am not determined to debunk your current explanation, so I just
thank you again for recounting this.
I don't think you are trying to debunk anything I have said, in fact I agree
with you on this. I may have had this experience, but I would also want
some kind of "control" to help validate the experience.
Mary
aa# 1715
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 10:26:23 PM |
|
|
John Popelish wrote:
Before giving such experiences more credit than one would a dream, I
would want to try to think up some test for you to perform while
experiencing something like this that might eliminate some
possibilities. Of course, if you already have an investment in a
particular explanation, that would lower your objectivity as the only
witness.
where was that..maybe in Shermer's book about why people believe wierd
things? a doctor had something interesting sitting on top of a shelf
that could not be seen from "normal" viewpoint, but would be from a
floating above viewpoint, and nobody who had an obe mentioned having
seen it.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "*Mary*" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 10:56:19 PM |
|
|
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:zr3we.263> where
was that..maybe in Shermer's book about why people believe wierd
things? a doctor had something interesting sitting on top of a shelf
that could not be seen from "normal" viewpoint, but would be from a
floating above viewpoint, and nobody who had an obe mentioned having
seen it.
I have read this myself, and I wondered if Shermer told any of the people
that was something interesting to even look at. If I knew there was
soemthing interesting I would go check it out. If I didn't know then why
would I go up there in the first place?
Mary
aa#1715
.
|
|
|
| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 11:22:08 PM |
|
|
*Mary* wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:zr3we.263> where
was that..maybe in Shermer's book about why people believe wierd
things? a doctor had something interesting sitting on top of a shelf
that could not be seen from "normal" viewpoint, but would be from a
floating above viewpoint, and nobody who had an obe mentioned having
seen it.
I have read this myself, and I wondered if Shermer told any of the people
that was something interesting to even look at. If I knew there was
soemthing interesting I would go check it out. If I didn't know then why
would I go up there in the first place?
as I recall it would have been pretty obvoius to folks who claimed to
have been able to see that particular area, and they didn't see it.
As far as I can tell, the "spirit" is simply an emergent property of
the mind, which is simply an emergent property of the brain. In
abnormal situations (ie oxygen deprivation, during sleep, under the
influence currently or in the past of some drugs) the mind works in
abnormal ways. I don't see any reason to get too excited about it.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ben Goren" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
27 Jun 2005 11:33:46 PM |
|
|
*Mary* wrote:
J Forbes wrote:
things? a doctor had something interesting sitting on top of a
shelf that could not be seen from "normal" viewpoint, but would
be from a floating above viewpoint, and nobody who had an obe
mentioned having seen it.
I have read this myself, and I wondered if Shermer told any of
the people that was something interesting to even look at. If I
knew there was soemthing interesting I would go check it
out. If I didn't know then why would I go up there in the first
place?
I haven't read the book, but I seem to recall hearing that the
sign was something so obvious that you couldn't miss it. That is,
people with out-of-body experiences were reporting that they were
at the ceiling, were looking right at the top of the lights...but
still didn't notice the sign.
Having said that, I've often had lucid dreams that may well
constitute out-of-body experiences. I know that I'm dreaming, but
I'm perfectly capable of getting up out of bed, wandering around
the apartment, out the door, and around the neighborhood.
The only problem is, half the time, the dream world is
significantly different from the real world. The proportions of
the hallway, room, etc., will be all messed up, or the door will
be on the worng side of the room--that sort of thing. When
I'm in the dream, these things either seem perfectly normal
or I'm slightly disturbed by it, but not enough to question
the ``reality'' of the experience. Times when everything is
``normal,'' I never notice anything I couldn't have drawn up from
memory.
Oh--and, although every one of these dreams has taken place at
night in a darkened apartment, everything around me has been well
lit.
The dreams also seem to usually dissolve into flying dreams.
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.
|
|
|
| User: "skyeyes" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 02:52:08 PM |
|
|
Ben Goren wrote:
The dreams also seem to usually dissolve into flying dreams.
Oooooh, I *love* flying dreams. I have 'em all the time. They are
totally pleasant, except for the part about dodging electric lines,
which always seem to be festooned about like garlands on a Christmas
tree. ;->
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 03:15:14 PM |
|
|
"skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote in message
news:1119988328.475097.84590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Ben Goren wrote:
The dreams also seem to usually dissolve into flying dreams.
Oooooh, I *love* flying dreams. I have 'em all the time. They are
totally pleasant, except for the part about dodging electric lines,
which always seem to be festooned about like garlands on a Christmas
tree. ;->
Damnit, you're lucky. I haven't been able to fly in a dream since I was a
teenager. I just lost the ability. My daughter is an extremely vivid
dreamer as well and I've told her to try flying. Hopefully she'll be able
to do it. It was SO much fun. Oh well :(
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 03:16:43 PM |
|
|
In article <1119988328.475097.84590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> "skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> writes:
Ben Goren wrote:
The dreams also seem to usually dissolve into flying dreams.
Oooooh, I *love* flying dreams. I have 'em all the time. They are
totally pleasant, except for the part about dodging electric lines,
which always seem to be festooned about like garlands on a Christmas
tree. ;->
Did you -- or anyone -- see that jewel of a Canadian indie film,
"I've head the Mermaids Singing"?
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "skyeyes" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 05:17:30 PM |
|
|
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Did you -- or anyone -- see that jewel of a Canadian indie film,
"I've head the Mermaids Singing"?
No, but I'm stocking up on DVDs for the long weekend, so I'll look for
it.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 03:22:38 PM |
|
|
In article <d9sb7b$i3a$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu> (Cary Kittrell) writes:
In article <1119988328.475097.84590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> "skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> writes:
Ben Goren wrote:
The dreams also seem to usually dissolve into flying dreams.
Oooooh, I *love* flying dreams. I have 'em all the time. They are
totally pleasant, except for the part about dodging electric lines,
which always seem to be festooned about like garlands on a Christmas
tree. ;->
Did you -- or anyone -- see that jewel of a Canadian indie film,
"I've head the Mermaids Singing"?
Actually, that one was jerked almost instantly from distribution and
replaced with "I've Heard the Mermaids Singing". Not quite sure why...
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "skyeyes" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 05:19:00 PM |
|
|
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Actually, that one was jerked almost instantly from distribution and
replaced with "I've Heard the Mermaids Singing". Not quite sure why...
*Snerk* =->>
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ben Goren" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 05:14:45 PM |
|
|
skyeyes wrote:
Ben Goren wrote:
The dreams also seem to usually dissolve into flying dreams.
Oooooh, I *love* flying dreams. I have 'em all the time. They
are totally pleasant, except for the part about dodging electric
lines, which always seem to be festooned about like garlands on
a Christmas tree. ;->
Dang! You too? No, seriously--I've dodged power lines tens, if not
hundreds, of thousands of miles into the sky. Can't go over 'em,
can't get in front of 'em...just have to wriggle my way around
them.
Of course, the /really/ fun dreams start off with no more than a
tree or single telephone line in the way--and then the sky's the
limit.
Hmmm...I've also had similar dreams where I've tried to make my
way up or down a stairwell where the ceiling is /just/barely/ too
low to comfortably get through...but I've also had others where I
leaped tall buildings in a single bound.
I'm sure there's a therapist out there just drooling over
everything I just wrote....
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ben Goren" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 05:34:51 PM |
|
|
Ben Goren wrote:
I've dodged power lines tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of
miles into the sky.
^^^^^
Obviously, I have something in common with NASA here...but it's
not extra-atmospheric flight, even if mine is only virtual....
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 07:44:57 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:14:45 -0500, Ben Goren wrote
(in article <42c1cccd$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>):
skyeyes wrote:
Ben Goren wrote:
The dreams also seem to usually dissolve into flying dreams.
Oooooh, I *love* flying dreams. I have 'em all the time. They
are totally pleasant, except for the part about dodging electric
lines, which always seem to be festooned about like garlands on
a Christmas tree. ;->
Dang! You too? No, seriously--I've dodged power lines tens, if not
hundreds, of thousands of miles into the sky. Can't go over 'em,
can't get in front of 'em...just have to wriggle my way around
them.
Of course, the /really/ fun dreams start off with no more than a
tree or single telephone line in the way--and then the sky's the
limit.
Hmmm...I've also had similar dreams where I've tried to make my
way up or down a stairwell where the ceiling is /just/barely/ too
low to comfortably get through...but I've also had others where I
leaped tall buildings in a single bound.
I'm sure there's a therapist out there just drooling over
everything I just wrote....
I always have "falling" dreams, but I love them, falling from (and to) an
infinity, and no fear of slamming into the ground. Next best thing to flying
(ask any sky-diver.) I am not a sky-diver, but I know what they go through, I
have done it every time I sleep.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
³It's all very simple : you believe in a god, I don't. Theists first invented
the concept of god or gods, and the sceptical people said : "Huh?". It's been
downhill from there. ;-)³ - Olrik
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
28 Jun 2005 01:40:43 AM |
|
|
*Mary* wrote:
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out of
Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
I have had two...
Both of them were in March of this year. I was clean at the time. I wasn't
expecting the first one and it is mostly a blur of someone yelling and was
wearing an orange and white jumper suit. (I found out a few days later a
really good friend of mine was asrrested, so it made sense later.) In that
one when I jumped back into my body I wasn't sure what was going on and I
was literally paralyzed. It lasted a few minutes.
Coincidental dream? I've had many of those.
The second one is more vivid. I was laying in bed and was very relaxed. I
looked up (Kind of at a down angle) and looked at my hand and I saw two of
them. I moved my second hand around and my physical hand was still laying
there on the bed, but my "spirit fingers" as I call them, were moving
around. I then turned and moved like laying on my stomach and looked at my
wall, which literally disappered and I was looking at someone standing under
a tree. I still don't know who it was, cause when you have an OBE and you
don't "get away" from your physical body soon after leaving you get drawn
back, which is what happened. This time I wasn't paralyzed and I knew
exactly what had happened.
Dream? I am fully versed in OBEs, having studied them. They are
nothing more than dreams and, if you see something later that coincides
with said dream, no matter how dubious the connection, you'll find that
connection and say, "Hey, I had an OBE!"
People like John Edward (not the politician) make a bundle off these
dubious connections.
I have been practicing more since then. Haven't had one since, but I will
be sure to let you all know if I do.
My husband said he had one a long time ago. He was in surgery and he was
floating above his body. The doctor said he had flatlined and they had to
"bring him back" but that there seemed to be a "hand" holding him right
there as it seemed like he would float away. (but that is his experience,
not mine)
That would be an NDE (Near-Death Experience) and it has been reproducible.
The brain is a wondrous thing, but sometimes, we see things that we
think are fact but are fiction, such as the face on Mars.
This is just my experience, I don't have an exact explaination for it, all I
know is that it happened to me; although I am sure someone will have a
rational, scientific, reason for it all.
And for anyone who doesn't believe anything I have said I say..."That's
Nice."
Dreams are wondrous, but sometimes they can be double-edged swords.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
30 Jun 2005 12:01:16 PM |
|
|
In article <Xns96856652BED2DhellwardŽ.196.109.145> Jez <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> writes:
"*Mary*" <inspiringmind@bresnan.net> wrote in
news:M5ydnRMa09MbBF3fRVn-2g@bresnan.com:
John Popelish asked me to write a detailed discription of my OBE (Out
of Body Experience.) And I am now in the mood to do so.
I have had two...
About 20 years ago I used to get them every night, scared the crap out of
me for a few years, now I only get them on odd occasions, dunno why.
Both of them were in March of this year. I was clean at the time. I
wasn't expecting the first one and it is mostly a blur of someone
yelling and was wearing an orange and white jumper suit. (I found out
a few days later a really good friend of mine was asrrested, so it
made sense later.) In that one when I jumped back into my body I
wasn't sure what was going on and I was literally paralyzed.
Thats the bit that used to scare me....just laying there, unable to move,
feeling like something is trying to pull you out of your chest !
Scary ! But eventually I learnt to just relax and go with it.
Seen some amazing things, flown thru the moon...out toward the
sun...bloody weird.
It
lasted a few minutes.
The second one is more vivid. I was laying in bed and was very
relaxed. I looked up (Kind of at a down angle) and looked at my hand
and I saw two of them. I moved my second hand around and my physical
hand was still laying there on the bed, but my "spirit fingers" as I
call them, were moving around. I then turned and moved like laying on
my stomach and looked at my wall, which literally disappered and I was
looking at someone standing under a tree. I still don't know who it
was, cause when you have an OBE and you don't "get away" from your
physical body soon after leaving you get drawn back, which is what
happened.
Sometimes I'd find myself on the ceiling looking down at myself sleeping
!
Sometimes dreams would set them off, I'd be having a dream, then in the
dream say to myself...'Hey this isn't real, I'm dreaming' then all hell
would break lose for some reason, although, 'reason', isn't really
applicable !!
On one of those I ended up looking at myself in a mirror, (Which is odd,
I never really do much of the 'Vanity' thing!), then blood started
spurting from my temples and I started spinning round and round, really
quickly, then woke up in a cold sweat....turning over and over on my
bed.....again.....weird !
This time I wasn't paralyzed and I knew exactly what had
happened.
I have been practicing more since then. Haven't had one since, but I
will be sure to let you all know if I do.
My husband said he had one a long time ago. He was in surgery and he
was floating above his body. The doctor said he had flatlined and
they had to "bring him back" but that there seemed to be a "hand"
holding him right there as it seemed like he would float away. (but
that is his experience, not mine)
This is just my experience, I don't have an exact explaination for it,
all I know is that it happened to me; although I am sure someone will
have a rational, scientific, reason for it all.
Dunno, I never found one !
Ex-parapsychologist Susan Blackmore has a book on this: "Beyond the Body: An
Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences". She also writes at
length about a vivid OBE of her own in her biography ... whose name
I can't recall exactly; it's something like "My Ten Years as a Parapsychologist"
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Katt" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
30 Jun 2005 12:39:00 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:da18gs$24p$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
Ex-parapsychologist Susan Blackmore has a book on this: "Beyond the Body:
An
Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences". She also writes at
length about a vivid OBE of her own in her biography ... whose name
I can't recall exactly; it's something like "My Ten Years as a
Parapsychologist"
I feel rather sorry for this 'ex-parapsychologist', you know:
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/si87.html
I went through the same experience years ago: massive investment of time and
energy spent trying (as an amateur) to 'investigate' various alleged
'phenomena' that from any objective point of view just *never bloody showed
up*...
I think Blackmore's eventual position, as revealed in the link above, is an
unsatisfactory and illogical compromise with reality; but I can see the
personal reasons that have enforced it: it's hard to tell all the people
you've ever worked with that they are either self-deluded, or incompetent,
or liars...
Katt.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
30 Jun 2005 01:29:07 PM |
|
|
"Katt" <workcomputer@dfhu.net> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:da18gs$24p$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
Ex-parapsychologist Susan Blackmore has a book on this: "Beyond the Body:
An
Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences". She also writes at
length about a vivid OBE of her own in her biography ... whose name
I can't recall exactly; it's something like "My Ten Years as a
Parapsychologist"
I feel rather sorry for this 'ex-parapsychologist', you know:
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/si87.html
I must have read that article when it first came out, but I had
totally forgotten. Thanks for posting that.
Yep, that's the Susan Blackmore I fell in love with after reading
her "My Ten Years": ingenuous, unabashed and forthcoming. And
utterly honest.
I went through the same experience years ago: massive investment of time and
energy spent trying (as an amateur) to 'investigate' various alleged
'phenomena' that from any objective point of view just *never bloody showed
up*...
You did? Well, you got further than I did.
I thought for a long time about going int parapsychology. I remember
sitting on a car in a parking lot at Duke on a warm spring day, talking
to J.B.Rhine after a little talk he gave. He was just as nice and
avuncular as everything you read paints him to be. And I participated
as a subject in a couple of his experiments.
But as time went on I found myself reading less and less woo-woo stuff
and more and more skeptical writings. Like my atheism, it just sort
of happened, gradually.
I think Blackmore's eventual position, as revealed in the link above, is an
unsatisfactory and illogical compromise with reality; but I can see the
personal reasons that have enforced it: it's hard to tell all the people
you've ever worked with that they are either self-deluded, or incompetent,
or liars...
And maybe like most of us, me -- you too perhaps? -- we'd be delighted
if even after all this, there somehow turned out to be a there there after
all?
But I'd give very large odds against.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "Katt" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
30 Jun 2005 04:36:38 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:da1dlj$a26$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
Yep, that's the Susan Blackmore I fell in love with after reading
her "My Ten Years": ingenuous, unabashed and forthcoming. And
utterly honest.
And something in those photos always makes me think she'd also be *really
really filthy*...!! Dontcha reckon...??
;-)
I thought for a long time about going int parapsychology. I remember
sitting on a car in a parking lot at Duke on a warm spring day, talking
to J.B.Rhine after a little talk he gave. He was just as nice and
avuncular as everything you read paints him to be. And I participated
as a subject in a couple of his experiments.
But as time went on I found myself reading less and less woo-woo stuff
and more and more skeptical writings. Like my atheism, it just sort
of happened, gradually.
Reckon that's the sanest way...!
I think Blackmore's eventual position, as revealed in the link above, is
an
unsatisfactory and illogical compromise with reality; but I can see the
personal reasons that have enforced it: it's hard to tell all the people
you've ever worked with that they are either self-deluded, or
incompetent,
or liars...
And maybe like most of us, me -- you too perhaps? -- we'd be delighted
if even after all this, there somehow turned out to be a there there after
all?
Me too, yes (see below).
But I'd give very large odds against.
Yes. I have in fact been very surprised over the years at just how *thin*
the case for 'the paranormal' has turned out to be. In the university
Society I joined, all those years ago, we had lots of people who were used
to designing scientific experiments, and we'd sometimes spend literally days
trying to devise fool-proof, 'noise'-proof ways of testing things. I
remember one prolonged session aimed at devising the ultimate 'Ganzfeld';
and by the end of it we'd found that the whole alleged phenomenon had sort
of self-destructed conceptually -- rather like dear Ben G. keep showing with
all the alleged properties of 'God'.
And there was one occasion when we realised how tough it is even to protect
an investigation against the psychological needs of a team member: we had an
entire 'haunted house' to investigate for a weekend, and though it was a
pretty creepy environment (and miles from nowhere...!), there was bugger-all
going on -- except on the last night, when one member of the team found a
'materialised object' (a piece of kitchen-ware which 'definitely wasn't
there before') and 'saw something' and 'heard something'. So we felt we'd
come away with *some kind of worthwhile report*, even though it was mere
second-hand anecdote for most of us. And then, on the coach back, that
'lucky' team member said how pleased he was to have had those three
experiences, because *his little daughter has been killed in a car accident
ten years earlier*, and he was 'always so pleased' when he found 'even more
evidence' that 'personality and memory can survive death', and so on and so
on...
In short and in sum, all we ever found was that paranormal claims were too
internally contradictory to be formulated in a manner coherent enough to
make them testable; *or* when they could be formulated coherently, there was
no detectable phenomenon; *or* when there was a detectable phenomenon, the
report was always uncorroborated or/and ambiguous or/and well bloody dodgy
and all sorts... So one just sort of starts to leave it alone, really...
And I really was (and am) surprised that it went this way. I would once have
bet a kidney that James Randi would have lost his million bucks by 2005! But
as we know: he can't even find people who can get through the preliminary
tests...! And I have with my own eyes seen people 'dowsing' with such *utter
lack of success* that they could only make it seem like they had non-random
results *by choosing afterwards which test runs were counted and which
weren't*...! And you would have thought that at least bloody *dowsing for
underground water or iron or something* could actually be real without it
being something that necessarily conflicted with the rest of scientific
knowledge...! It *wouldn't fucking take much* to be able to do it!! And
NOBODY CAN....!!!!
Katt.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
01 Jul 2005 10:43:53 AM |
|
|
In article <GBZwe.14716$Ar5.5355@newsfe5-win.ntli.net> "Katt" <workcomputer@dfhu.net> writes:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:da1dlj$a26$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
Yep, that's the Susan Blackmore I fell in love with after reading
her "My Ten Years": ingenuous, unabashed and forthcoming. And
utterly honest.
And something in those photos always makes me think she'd also be *really
really filthy*...!! Dontcha reckon...??
;-)
Oh yeah. In her "My Ten Years" she candidly mentioned an incident
or two which made me go "Whoa! This is one hot chic^H^H^H^H well-respected
scientific researcher!"
Dunno about her present hairstyle, though...
She gets some coverage in John Horgan's delightful "Rational Mysticism", a book
I do recommend. Susan is now practicing "mindfulness". So much so that she
has a tendency to step out in front of cars. I dunno...if you're truly
"in the moment", don't you notice that three tons of steel bearing down
on you? I mean, IT'S definitely in the moment.
{...}
And maybe like most of us, me -- you too perhaps? -- we'd be delighted
if even after all this, there somehow turned out to be a there there after
all?
Me too, yes (see below).
But I'd give very large odds against.
Yes. I have in fact been very surprised over the years at just how *thin*
the case for 'the paranormal' has turned out to be. In the university
Society I joined, all those years ago, we had lots of people who were used
to designing scientific experiments, and we'd sometimes spend literally days
trying to devise fool-proof, 'noise'-proof ways of testing things. I
remember one prolonged session aimed at devising the ultimate 'Ganzfeld';
and by the end of it we'd found that the whole alleged phenomenon had sort
of self-destructed conceptually -- rather like dear Ben G. keep showing with
all the alleged properties of 'God'.
And there was one occasion when we realised how tough it is even to protect
an investigation against the psychological needs of a team member: we had an
entire 'haunted house' to investigate for a weekend, and though it was a
pretty creepy environment (and miles from nowhere...!), there was bugger-all
going on -- except on the last night, when one member of the team found a
'materialised object' (a piece of kitchen-ware which 'definitely wasn't
there before') and 'saw something' and 'heard something'. So we felt we'd
come away with *some kind of worthwhile report*, even though it was mere
second-hand anecdote for most of us. And then, on the coach back, that
'lucky' team member said how pleased he was to have had those three
experiences, because *his little daughter has been killed in a car accident
ten years earlier*, and he was 'always so pleased' when he found 'even more
evidence' that 'personality and memory can survive death', and so on and so
on...
Wow. Yeah... Who could be so crass as to argue with him at that point?
In short and in sum, all we ever found was that paranormal claims were too
internally contradictory to be formulated in a manner coherent enough to
make them testable; *or* when they could be formulated coherently, there was
no detectable phenomenon; *or* when there was a detectable phenomenon, the
report was always uncorroborated or/and ambiguous or/and well bloody dodgy
and all sorts... So one just sort of starts to leave it alone, really...
This is very interesting; you seem to be saying much the same thing Susan
Blackmore was saying. I never got deeply enough into it to get to the
point you both seem to be describing: if you're going to pin it down
definitely, you have to say exactly what "it" is ... and at that point
things start sliding about underfoot.
And I really was (and am) surprised that it went this way. I would once have
bet a kidney that James Randi would have lost his million bucks by 2005! But
as we know: he can't even find people who can get through the preliminary
tests...! And I have with my own eyes seen people 'dowsing' with such *utter
lack of success* that they could only make it seem like they had non-random
results *by choosing afterwards which test runs were counted and which
weren't*...! And you would have thought that at least bloody *dowsing for
underground water or iron or something* could actually be real without it
being something that necessarily conflicted with the rest of scientific
knowledge...! It *wouldn't fucking take much* to be able to do it!! And
NOBODY CAN....!!!!
Yeah... EVERYBODY can dowse, where I come from. Of course, where I come
from, limestone so sodden it's nearly Karst topography, the really
impressive trick would be to be able to say "Drill here: you will not
find water".
Randi has said that of all the types he tests, the dowsers are inevitably
the most honest, earnest, and bewildered when things go badly.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: My OBE for you all to Nit Pick At |
01 Jul 2005 12:54:33 PM |
|
|
In article <GBZwe.14716$Ar5.5355@newsfe5-win.ntli.net> "Katt" <workcomputer@dfhu.net> writes:
Oh. One more thing:
... one prolonged session aimed at devising the ultimate 'Ganzfeld';
and by the end of it we'd found that the whole alleged phenomenon had sort
of self-destructed conceptually -- rather like dear Ben G. keep showing with
all the alleged properties of 'God'.
Have you ever tried the Ganzfeld setup just for, um, recreational purposes?
Sounds appealingly trippy, like sensory deprivation.
I vaguely seem to recall trying it myself. It was amazing: after a
brief period of settling in, my brain conjured up images of two
white ping pong balls over my eyes and I seemed to hear a hissing
in my ears.
Alas. I think I remember reading Huxley, in "The Doors of Perception",
being bitterly disappointed that on trying ... whatever it was, acid or
peyote or whatever, that he didn't get any pretty pictures. He concluded
that non-visual people are still non-visual people, even when they're tripping.
And I'm nothing if not non-visual. "OK, close your eyes. Good.
Now: try to visualize a field of black".
"...Sorry, I just can't get it...".
-- cary
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
