| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Eris" |
| Date: |
28 May 2007 10:46:28 AM |
| Object: |
My thoughts on Memorial Day |
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 10:09:00 AM |
|
|
Eris <vithant@gmail.com> wrote in news:1180367188.699769.269080
@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, Eris. The Military calling is the
toughest job that our Country asks of its people, bar none, and it is a
shameful thing when we make it tougher on our soldiers and veterans by
failing to honor their service and the missions that they sacrificed and
died for.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"When they put out that deadline, people realized that we were going to
lose," said an aide to an anti-war lawmaker. "Everything after that
seemed like posturing."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "dapra" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 11:33:56 AM |
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|
Fred Stone wrote:
Eris <vithant@gmail.com> wrote in news:1180367188.699769.269080
@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, Eris. The Military calling is the
toughest job that our Country asks of its people, bar none, and it is a
shameful thing when we make it tougher on our soldiers and veterans by
failing to honor their service and the missions that they sacrificed and
died for.
"Our Country asks of its people.." ? Our Country do not ask for its
people to go to war. All of the time our politicians, controlled by the
ruling class, send the people to War.
It hardly ever meets the the interest of the people, most of the time it
is not. Wars are in the interest of the ruling class from eternity. No
farmer benefits from killing an other farmer from hundreds or thousands
of miles away, neither the factory workers, neither any wage earners.
.
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| User: "Jim Burns" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 07:50:28 PM |
|
|
Eris wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing
farmers in south viet nam. I thought we should have been
lined up and people should have said shame on you, shame on
you. These are my true feelings and I do not appologize, I was
in the heaviest fighting and have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way
that this is anyones job.
I don't know enough to speak to the "not anyone's job" part
of what you write, but it looks to me that you were placed
in an intolerable situation by institutions much more powerful
than you. It seems to me that the responsiblity falls to
whoever controls those institutions. (I don't expect this to
make you feel better or anything like that, but it is the way
I see things.)
Unfortunately, I am (I believe) responsible for you being put
there, speaking now as 1/300,000,000th of the United States
of America. I was a teenager when you were in SE Asia, and there
wasn't much I could do at the time. Also, if there were any
small thing I could have done, it would have been to get us out of
there even sooner. Nonetheless, it is my inherited debt to you
(just like the National Debt, except much harder to pay off),
as part of the United States of America, that you were put there
in that intolerable situation.
I have had to do some hard thinking in the last few years. I lean
strongly in the pacifist direction, but I don't think I am a
complete pacifist, because I can imagine (rare) situations where
I would think we should go to war, and ask people like you
(and like me, come to that) to fight and kill and die. Add to that,
I recognize that every 1/300,000,000th part of the country
cannot have a veto.
Therefore, because I must or else leave my country, I do accept
responsiblity. That means I will not blink at the cost of
keeping our people safe in the field or caring for them
when they get back, and their families if they don't. That means
I will always /sincerely/ thank servicemen and -women for
their sacrifice even if -- ESPECIALLY if -- it's in a cause
that wastes their sacrifice. That just makes their sacrifice
larger, in my eyes.
BUT.
I'm not going to listen to someone who says that, in order to
support the troops, I have to support a particular policy.
It makes sense to have a tradition of "shut up and soldier"
in the military. It makes no sense at all to tell the
civilians who (supposedly) run this country to "shut up
and soldier".
In the US at least (and also, I expect, in the more liveable
foreign parts), there is the important tradition of the
military answering to the civilian authorities. That means
that the buck stops at my desk, as well as 300,000,000 other
desks. This is implemented in a chain of command that DOES NOT
stop at the Commander in Chief's desk, but with THE VOTERS.
If anybody tells us (that is, We, the People) that we have to
support a particular war IN ORDER TO support the troops
and NOT because that war is so &$^&$ important to the country
that it is worth the horrible cost (and here is why),
that person telling us to throw off our DUTY as the /truly/
supreme court of the United States.
That kind of talk is just as destructive to our traditions
as encouraging our military to throw off civilian control.
If we, the people, are not willing to act as brakes on an
overly-agressive admistration (and, whatever can be said of Iraq,
surely everyone agrees that a US administration can be overly
aggressive /in principle/), then the only ones left to be a
brake will be the military themselves. We will no longer have
civilian control of the military -- and that would damage my
country much more seriously, I believe, than anything
Osama bin Laden or George W Bush have managed to do to
us so far.
Jim Burns
.
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| User: "Eris" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 09:03:46 PM |
|
|
On May 28, 8:50 pm, Jim Burns <burns...@osu.edu> wrote:
Eris wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing
farmers in south viet nam. I thought we should have been
lined up and people should have said shame on you, shame on
you. These are my true feelings and I do not appologize, I was
in the heaviest fighting and have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way
that this is anyones job.
I don't know enough to speak to the "not anyone's job" part
of what you write, but it looks to me that you were placed
in an intolerable situation by institutions much more powerful
than you. It seems to me that the responsiblity falls to
whoever controls those institutions. (I don't expect this to
make you feel better or anything like that, but it is the way
I see things.)
Unfortunately, I am (I believe) responsible for you being put
there, speaking now as 1/300,000,000th of the United States
of America. I was a teenager when you were in SE Asia, and there
wasn't much I could do at the time. Also, if there were any
small thing I could have done, it would have been to get us out of
there even sooner. Nonetheless, it is my inherited debt to you
(just like the National Debt, except much harder to pay off),
as part of the United States of America, that you were put there
in that intolerable situation.
I have had to do some hard thinking in the last few years. I lean
strongly in the pacifist direction, but I don't think I am a
complete pacifist, because I can imagine (rare) situations where
I would think we should go to war, and ask people like you
(and like me, come to that) to fight and kill and die. Add to that,
I recognize that every 1/300,000,000th part of the country
cannot have a veto.
Therefore, because I must or else leave my country, I do accept
responsiblity. That means I will not blink at the cost of
keeping our people safe in the field or caring for them
when they get back, and their families if they don't. That means
I will always /sincerely/ thank servicemen and -women for
their sacrifice even if -- ESPECIALLY if -- it's in a cause
that wastes their sacrifice. That just makes their sacrifice
larger, in my eyes.
BUT.
I'm not going to listen to someone who says that, in order to
support the troops, I have to support a particular policy.
It makes sense to have a tradition of "shut up and soldier"
in the military. It makes no sense at all to tell the
civilians who (supposedly) run this country to "shut up
and soldier".
In the US at least (and also, I expect, in the more liveable
foreign parts), there is the important tradition of the
military answering to the civilian authorities. That means
that the buck stops at my desk, as well as 300,000,000 other
desks. This is implemented in a chain of command that DOES NOT
stop at the Commander in Chief's desk, but with THE VOTERS.
If anybody tells us (that is, We, the People) that we have to
support a particular war IN ORDER TO support the troops
and NOT because that war is so &$^&$ important to the country
that it is worth the horrible cost (and here is why),
that person telling us to throw off our DUTY as the /truly/
supreme court of the United States.
That kind of talk is just as destructive to our traditions
as encouraging our military to throw off civilian control.
If we, the people, are not willing to act as brakes on an
overly-agressive admistration (and, whatever can be said of Iraq,
surely everyone agrees that a US administration can be overly
aggressive /in principle/), then the only ones left to be a
brake will be the military themselves. We will no longer have
civilian control of the military -- and that would damage my
country much more seriously, I believe, than anything
Osama bin Laden or George W Bush have managed to do to
us so far.
Jim Burns
I have of course given this great amount of thought and with the
exception of say WWI and of course WWII there has been no reason for
any of the following wars except for profit and religious extremism.
The corporations and the church's were very supportive of the VN war.
.
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| User: "Don Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
30 May 2007 10:13:46 PM |
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On 28 May 2007 19:03:46 -0700, Eris <vithant@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
I have of course given this great amount of thought and with the
exception of say WWI and of course WWII there has been no reason for
any of the following wars except for profit and religious extremism.
The corporations and the church's were very supportive of the VN war.
I've been brooding on this one lately, and I begin to suspect that we
got involved in the 50s with the French in part to prevent a bunch of
brown people from kicking (obviously superior) European arse.and all
that arse stands for. When the colonials kick out the imperialists,
they6 kick out everything the imperialists stand for, like (obviously
superior) christianity, (obviously superior) western democracy,
(obviously superior) western technology, etc. Those little bastards
have to be held in check!
It would not surprise me in the least to find such thoughts at the
back of Eisenhower's mind, and he was our last "decent" republican.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.
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| User: "Broderick Crawford" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 11:05:17 AM |
|
|
Eris wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
Memorial day is for non-vets and everybody else.
.
|
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| User: "BigRedWingsFan" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 04:00:30 PM |
|
|
"Broderick Crawford" <bcrawford2150@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:465afe0b$0$10170$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Eris wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
Memorial day is for non-vets and everybody else.
In remembrance for those who served and sacrificed.
QUOTE:
Memorial Day, originally called Decoration Day, is a day of
remembrance for those who have died in our nation's service.
There are many stories as to its actual beginnings, with over two
dozen cities and towns laying claim to being the birthplace of
Memorial Day.
There is also evidence that organized women's groups in the South were
decorating graves before the end of the Civil War: a hymn published in
1867, "Kneel Where Our Loves are Sleeping" by Nella L. Sweet carried
the dedication "To The Ladies of the South who are Decorating the
Graves of the Confederate Dead"
(Source: Duke University's Historic American Sheet Music,
1850-1920).
While Waterloo N.Y. was officially declared the birthplace of Memorial
Day by President Lyndon Johnson in May 1966, it's difficult to prove
conclusively the origins of the day. It is more likely that it had
many separate beginnings; each of those towns and every planned or
spontaneous gathering of people to honor the war dead in the 1860's
tapped into the general human need to honor our dead, each contributed
honorably to the growing movement that culminated in Gen Logan giving
his official proclamation in 1868.
It is not important who was the very first, what is important is that
Memorial Day was established. Memorial Day is not about division. It
is about reconciliation; it is about coming together to honor those
who gave their all.
Memorial Day was officially proclaimed on 5 May 1868 by General John
Logan, national commander of the Grand Army of the Republic, in his
General Order No. 11, and was first observed on 30 May 1868, when
flowers were placed on the graves of Union and Confederate soldiers at
Arlington National Cemetery.
The first state to officially recognize the holiday was New York in
1873.
By 1890 it was recognized by all of the northern states.
The South refused to acknowledge the day, honoring their dead on
separate days until after World War I (when the holiday changed from
honoring just those who died fighting in the Civil War to honoring
Americans who died fighting in any war).
It is now celebrated in almost every State on the last Monday in May
(passed by Congress with the National Holiday Act of 1971 (P.L. 90 -
363) to ensure a three day weekend for Federal holidays), though
several southern states have an additional separate day for honoring
the Confederate war dead: January 19 in Texas, April 26 in Alabama,
Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi; May 10 in South Carolina; and June
3 (Jefferson Davis' birthday) in Louisiana and Tennessee.
In 1915, inspired by the poem "In Flanders Fields," Moina Michael
replied with her own poem:
We cherish too, the Poppy red
That grows on fields where valor led,
It seems to signal to the skies
That blood of heroes never dies.
She then conceived of an idea to wear red poppies on Memorial day in
honor of those who died serving the nation during war. She was the
first to wear one, and sold poppies to her friends and co-workers with
the money going to benefit servicemen in need.
Later a Madam Guerin from France was visiting the United States and
learned of this new custom started by Ms.Michael and when she returned
to France, made artificial red poppies to raise money for war orphaned
children and widowed women.
This tradition spread to other countries.
In 1921, the Franco-American Children's League sold poppies nationally
to benefit war orphans of France and Belgium. The League disbanded a
year later and Madam Guerin approached the VFW for help. Shortly
before Memorial Day in 1922 the VFW became the first veterans'
organization to nationally sell poppies. Two years later their "Buddy"
Poppy program was selling artificial poppies made by disabled
veterans.
In 1948 the US Post Office honored Ms Michael for her role in
founding the National Poppy movement by issuing a red 3 cent postage
stamp with her likeness on it.
Traditional observance of Memorial day has diminished over the years.
Many Americans nowadays have forgotten the meaning and traditions of
Memorial Day.
At many cemeteries, the graves of the fallen are increasingly ignored,
neglected. Most people no longer remember the proper flag etiquette
for the day. While there are towns and cities that still hold Memorial
Day parades, many have not held a parade in decades. Some people think
the day is for honoring any and all dead, and not just those fallen in
service to our country.
There are a few notable exceptions. Since the late 50's on the
Thursday before Memorial Day, the 1,200 soldiers of the 3d U.S.
Infantry place small American flags at each of the more than 260,000
gravestones at Arlington National Cemetery. They then patrol 24 hours
a day during the weekend to ensure that each flag remains standing.
In 1951, the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts of St. Louis began placing
flags on the 150,000 graves at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery as
an annual Good Turn, a practice that continues to this day.
More recently, beginning in 1998, on the Saturday before the observed
day for Memorial Day, the Boys Scouts and Girl Scouts place a candle
at each of approximately 15,300 grave sites of soldiers buried at
Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Military Park on Marye's
Heights (the Luminaria Program).
And in 2004, Washington D.C. held its first Memorial Day parade in
over 60 years.
To help re-educate and remind Americans of the true meaning of
Memorial Day, the "National Moment of Remembrance" resolution was
passed on Dec 2000 which asks that at 3 p.m. local time, for all
Americans "To voluntarily and informally observe in their own way a
Moment of remembrance and respect, pausing from whatever they are
doing for a moment of silence or listening to 'Taps."
The Moment of Remembrance is a step in the right direction to
returning the meaning back to the day.
What is needed is a full return to the original day of observance.
Set aside one day out of the year for the nation to get together to
remember, reflect and honor those who have given their all in service
to their country.
But what may be needed to return the solemn, and even sacred, spirit
back to Memorial Day is for a return to its traditional day of
observance.
Many feel that when Congress made the day into a three-day weekend in
with the National Holiday Act of 1971, it made it all the easier for
people to be distracted from the spirit and meaning of the day.
As the VFW stated in its 2002 Memorial Day address: "Changing the date
merely to create three-day weekends has undermined the very meaning of
the day. No doubt, this has contributed greatly to the general
public's nonchalant observance of Memorial Day."
On January 19, 1999 Senator Inouye introduced bill S 189 to the Senate
which proposes to restore the traditional day of observance of
Memorial Day back to May 30th instead of "the last Monday in May". On
April 19, 1999 Representative Gibbons introduced the bill to the House
(H.R. 1474). The bills were referred the Committee on the Judiciary
and the Committee on Government Reform.
CLOSE QUOTES
.
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| User: "Eris" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 04:17:50 PM |
|
|
On May 28, 5:00 pm, "BigRedWingsFan" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
"Broderick Crawford" <bcrawford2...@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:465afe0b$0$10170$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Eris wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
Memorial day is for non-vets and everybody else.
In remembrance for those who served and sacrificed.
QUOTE:
Memorial Day, originally called Decoration Day, is a day of
remembrance for those who have died in our nation's service.
There are many stories as to its actual beginnings, with over two
dozen cities and towns laying claim to being the birthplace of
Memorial Day.
There is also evidence that organized women's groups in the South were
decorating graves before the end of the Civil War: a hymn published in
1867, "Kneel Where Our Loves are Sleeping" by Nella L. Sweet carried
the dedication "To The Ladies of the South who are Decorating the
Graves of the Confederate Dead"
(Source: Duke University's Historic American Sheet Music,
1850-1920).
While Waterloo N.Y. was officially declared the birthplace of Memorial
Day by President Lyndon Johnson in May 1966, it's difficult to prove
conclusively the origins of the day. It is more likely that it had
many separate beginnings; each of those towns and every planned or
spontaneous gathering of people to honor the war dead in the 1860's
tapped into the general human need to honor our dead, each contributed
honorably to the growing movement that culminated in Gen Logan giving
his official proclamation in 1868.
It is not important who was the very first, what is important is that
Memorial Day was established. Memorial Day is not about division. It
is about reconciliation; it is about coming together to honor those
who gave their all.
Memorial Day was officially proclaimed on 5 May 1868 by General John
Logan, national commander of the Grand Army of the Republic, in his
General Order No. 11, and was first observed on 30 May 1868, when
flowers were placed on the graves of Union and Confederate soldiers at
Arlington National Cemetery.
The first state to officially recognize the holiday was New York in
1873.
By 1890 it was recognized by all of the northern states.
The South refused to acknowledge the day, honoring their dead on
separate days until after World War I (when the holiday changed from
honoring just those who died fighting in the Civil War to honoring
Americans who died fighting in any war).
It is now celebrated in almost every State on the last Monday in May
(passed by Congress with the National Holiday Act of 1971 (P.L. 90 -
363) to ensure a three day weekend for Federal holidays), though
several southern states have an additional separate day for honoring
the Confederate war dead: January 19 in Texas, April 26 in Alabama,
Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi; May 10 in South Carolina; and June
3 (Jefferson Davis' birthday) in Louisiana and Tennessee.
In 1915, inspired by the poem "In Flanders Fields," Moina Michael
replied with her own poem:
We cherish too, the Poppy red
That grows on fields where valor led,
It seems to signal to the skies
That blood of heroes never dies.
She then conceived of an idea to wear red poppies on Memorial day in
honor of those who died serving the nation during war. She was the
first to wear one, and sold poppies to her friends and co-workers with
the money going to benefit servicemen in need.
Later a Madam Guerin from France was visiting the United States and
learned of this new custom started by Ms.Michael and when she returned
to France, made artificial red poppies to raise money for war orphaned
children and widowed women.
This tradition spread to other countries.
In 1921, the Franco-American Children's League sold poppies nationally
to benefit war orphans of France and Belgium. The League disbanded a
year later and Madam Guerin approached the VFW for help. Shortly
before Memorial Day in 1922 the VFW became the first veterans'
organization to nationally sell poppies. Two years later their "Buddy"
Poppy program was selling artificial poppies made by disabled
veterans.
In 1948 the US Post Office honored Ms Michael for her role in
founding the National Poppy movement by issuing a red 3 cent postage
stamp with her likeness on it.
Traditional observance of Memorial day has diminished over the years.
Many Americans nowadays have forgotten the meaning and traditions of
Memorial Day.
At many cemeteries, the graves of the fallen are increasingly ignored,
neglected. Most people no longer remember the proper flag etiquette
for the day. While there are towns and cities that still hold Memorial
Day parades, many have not held a parade in decades. Some people think
the day is for honoring any and all dead, and not just those fallen in
service to our country.
There are a few notable exceptions. Since the late 50's on the
Thursday before Memorial Day, the 1,200 soldiers of the 3d U.S.
Infantry place small American flags at each of the more than 260,000
gravestones at Arlington National Cemetery. They then patrol 24 hours
a day during the weekend to ensure that each flag remains standing.
In 1951, the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts of St. Louis began placing
flags on the 150,000 graves at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery as
an annual Good Turn, a practice that continues to this day.
More recently, beginning in 1998, on the Saturday before the observed
day for Memorial Day, the Boys Scouts and Girl Scouts place a candle
at each of approximately 15,300 grave sites of soldiers buried at
Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Military Park on Marye's
Heights (the Luminaria Program).
And in 2004, Washington D.C. held its first Memorial Day parade in
over 60 years.
To help re-educate and remind Americans of the true meaning of
Memorial Day, the "National Moment of Remembrance" resolution was
passed on Dec 2000 which asks that at 3 p.m. local time, for all
Americans "To voluntarily and informally observe in their own way a
Moment of remembrance and respect, pausing from whatever they are
doing for a moment of silence or listening to 'Taps."
The Moment of Remembrance is a step in the right direction to
returning the meaning back to the day.
What is needed is a full return to the original day of observance.
Set aside one day out of the year for the nation to get together to
remember, reflect and honor those who have given their all in service
to their country.
But what may be needed to return the solemn, and even sacred, spirit
back to Memorial Day is for a return to its traditional day of
observance.
Many feel that when Congress made the day into a three-day weekend in
with the National Holiday Act of 1971, it made it all the easier for
people to be distracted from the spirit and meaning of the day.
As the VFW stated in its 2002 Memorial Day address: "Changing the date
merely to create three-day weekends has undermined the very meaning of
the day. No doubt, this has contributed greatly to the general
public's nonchalant observance of Memorial Day."
On January 19, 1999 Senator Inouye introduced bill S 189 to the Senate
which proposes to restore the traditional day of observance of
Memorial Day back to May 30th instead of "the last Monday in May". On
April 19, 1999 Representative Gibbons introduced the bill to the House
(H.R. 1474). The bills were referred the Committee on the Judiciary
and the Committee on Government Reform.
CLOSE QUOTES
nice post, thanks
.
|
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| User: "BigRedWingsFan" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 04:19:30 PM |
|
|
"Eris" <vithant@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180387070.563322.15890@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On May 28, 5:00 pm, "BigRedWingsFan" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
"Broderick Crawford" <bcrawford2...@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:465afe0b$0$10170$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Eris wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
Memorial day is for non-vets and everybody else.
In remembrance for those who served and sacrificed.
QUOTE:
Memorial Day, originally called Decoration Day, is a day of
remembrance for those who have died in our nation's service.
There are many stories as to its actual beginnings, with over two
dozen cities and towns laying claim to being the birthplace of
Memorial Day.
There is also evidence that organized women's groups in the South were
decorating graves before the end of the Civil War: a hymn published in
1867, "Kneel Where Our Loves are Sleeping" by Nella L. Sweet carried
the dedication "To The Ladies of the South who are Decorating the
Graves of the Confederate Dead"
(Source: Duke University's Historic American Sheet Music,
1850-1920).
While Waterloo N.Y. was officially declared the birthplace of Memorial
Day by President Lyndon Johnson in May 1966, it's difficult to prove
conclusively the origins of the day. It is more likely that it had
many separate beginnings; each of those towns and every planned or
spontaneous gathering of people to honor the war dead in the 1860's
tapped into the general human need to honor our dead, each contributed
honorably to the growing movement that culminated in Gen Logan giving
his official proclamation in 1868.
It is not important who was the very first, what is important is that
Memorial Day was established. Memorial Day is not about division. It
is about reconciliation; it is about coming together to honor those
who gave their all.
Memorial Day was officially proclaimed on 5 May 1868 by General John
Logan, national commander of the Grand Army of the Republic, in his
General Order No. 11, and was first observed on 30 May 1868, when
flowers were placed on the graves of Union and Confederate soldiers at
Arlington National Cemetery.
The first state to officially recognize the holiday was New York in
1873.
By 1890 it was recognized by all of the northern states.
The South refused to acknowledge the day, honoring their dead on
separate days until after World War I (when the holiday changed from
honoring just those who died fighting in the Civil War to honoring
Americans who died fighting in any war).
It is now celebrated in almost every State on the last Monday in May
(passed by Congress with the National Holiday Act of 1971 (P.L. 90 -
363) to ensure a three day weekend for Federal holidays), though
several southern states have an additional separate day for honoring
the Confederate war dead: January 19 in Texas, April 26 in Alabama,
Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi; May 10 in South Carolina; and June
3 (Jefferson Davis' birthday) in Louisiana and Tennessee.
In 1915, inspired by the poem "In Flanders Fields," Moina Michael
replied with her own poem:
We cherish too, the Poppy red
That grows on fields where valor led,
It seems to signal to the skies
That blood of heroes never dies.
She then conceived of an idea to wear red poppies on Memorial day in
honor of those who died serving the nation during war. She was the
first to wear one, and sold poppies to her friends and co-workers with
the money going to benefit servicemen in need.
Later a Madam Guerin from France was visiting the United States and
learned of this new custom started by Ms.Michael and when she returned
to France, made artificial red poppies to raise money for war orphaned
children and widowed women.
This tradition spread to other countries.
In 1921, the Franco-American Children's League sold poppies nationally
to benefit war orphans of France and Belgium. The League disbanded a
year later and Madam Guerin approached the VFW for help. Shortly
before Memorial Day in 1922 the VFW became the first veterans'
organization to nationally sell poppies. Two years later their "Buddy"
Poppy program was selling artificial poppies made by disabled
veterans.
In 1948 the US Post Office honored Ms Michael for her role in
founding the National Poppy movement by issuing a red 3 cent postage
stamp with her likeness on it.
Traditional observance of Memorial day has diminished over the years.
Many Americans nowadays have forgotten the meaning and traditions of
Memorial Day.
At many cemeteries, the graves of the fallen are increasingly ignored,
neglected. Most people no longer remember the proper flag etiquette
for the day. While there are towns and cities that still hold Memorial
Day parades, many have not held a parade in decades. Some people think
the day is for honoring any and all dead, and not just those fallen in
service to our country.
There are a few notable exceptions. Since the late 50's on the
Thursday before Memorial Day, the 1,200 soldiers of the 3d U.S.
Infantry place small American flags at each of the more than 260,000
gravestones at Arlington National Cemetery. They then patrol 24 hours
a day during the weekend to ensure that each flag remains standing.
In 1951, the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts of St. Louis began placing
flags on the 150,000 graves at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery as
an annual Good Turn, a practice that continues to this day.
More recently, beginning in 1998, on the Saturday before the observed
day for Memorial Day, the Boys Scouts and Girl Scouts place a candle
at each of approximately 15,300 grave sites of soldiers buried at
Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Military Park on Marye's
Heights (the Luminaria Program).
And in 2004, Washington D.C. held its first Memorial Day parade in
over 60 years.
To help re-educate and remind Americans of the true meaning of
Memorial Day, the "National Moment of Remembrance" resolution was
passed on Dec 2000 which asks that at 3 p.m. local time, for all
Americans "To voluntarily and informally observe in their own way a
Moment of remembrance and respect, pausing from whatever they are
doing for a moment of silence or listening to 'Taps."
The Moment of Remembrance is a step in the right direction to
returning the meaning back to the day.
What is needed is a full return to the original day of observance.
Set aside one day out of the year for the nation to get together to
remember, reflect and honor those who have given their all in service
to their country.
But what may be needed to return the solemn, and even sacred, spirit
back to Memorial Day is for a return to its traditional day of
observance.
Many feel that when Congress made the day into a three-day weekend in
with the National Holiday Act of 1971, it made it all the easier for
people to be distracted from the spirit and meaning of the day.
As the VFW stated in its 2002 Memorial Day address: "Changing the date
merely to create three-day weekends has undermined the very meaning of
the day. No doubt, this has contributed greatly to the general
public's nonchalant observance of Memorial Day."
On January 19, 1999 Senator Inouye introduced bill S 189 to the Senate
which proposes to restore the traditional day of observance of
Memorial Day back to May 30th instead of "the last Monday in May". On
April 19, 1999 Representative Gibbons introduced the bill to the House
(H.R. 1474). The bills were referred the Committee on the Judiciary
and the Committee on Government Reform.
CLOSE QUOTES
nice post, thanks
You're welcome. I borrowed it from a.w.v but felt it was an appropriate
response to the previous poster.
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| User: "Don Martin" |
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| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 05:25:40 PM |
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On 28 May 2007 08:46:28 -0700, Eris <vithant@gmail.com> wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
When we are young and told to do something vile by our elders, we
generally do it. The shame should fall upon those elders, but those
bastards have ducked out of sight into their graves, leaving us with
both the shame of the blood and the shame of being so foolish as to do
what they told us to do.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.
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| User: "Eris" |
|
| Title: Re: My thoughts on Memorial Day |
28 May 2007 05:05:03 PM |
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On May 28, 6:25 pm, Don Martin <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
On 28 May 2007 08:46:28 -0700, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
I was at the American Indian Pow Wow to honor vets, I did not
participate because I am not the least bit proud of killing farmers in
south viet nam. I thought we should have been lined up and people
should have said shame on you, shame on you. These are my true
feelings and I do not appologize, I was in the heaviest fighting and
have a right to my opinion.
My friend said you were just doing your job. There is no way that this
is anyones job.
When we are young and told to do something vile by our elders, we
generally do it. The shame should fall upon those elders, but those
bastards have ducked out of sight into their graves, leaving us with
both the shame of the blood and the shame of being so foolish as to do
what they told us to do.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
I think that the Viet Nam troops, especially the draftees where the
last group to trust their government and church.
.
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