Washington kneeling at the First Prayer in Congress
Message #7841 of 7852
Re: Washington kneeling at the First Prayer in Congress
--- In HRSepCnS@yahoogroups.com, "jackfisher77" <jackfisher77@...> wrote:
I first saw mention of this topic in a post by buckeye.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.education/msg/c56d9cd935c65e9a?hl=en&
There was in fact a prayer at the Continental Congress led by Jacob
Duche on September 7, 1774.
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(jc00110))
But there are also a bunch of references on the web that "Washington
was kneeling there" at the "First Prayer in Congress."
http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Washington+was+kneel\
ing+there%22&btnG=Search
[SMIP]
PART 2
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:42:24 -0500, you wrote:
:| Jim,
:|
:| Are you familiar with this?
[SNIP]
:| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
:| FOUND IT!
:|
:|http://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/aea/browse/letters_JA.html
:|
:|http://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/aea/cfm/doc.cfm?id=L17740916ja
:|
:| Guess what's missing? :-)
:|
Oh damn man, I'm no good at riddles.
Let';s see, hmmmmm, errrrr, grrrrrr. you ask hard questions
Hehehehehehehhe
Gee, ya think Geo was out fighting a war or sumptin? (grin)
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From:
To: Glen Goffin <buffip2@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Answer...and the Reason
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:25:45 -0500
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:55:04 -0500, you wrote:
:| Jim,
:|
:| Are you familiar with this?
[SNIP]
:|
:|Washington was kneeling there, and Henry, Randolph, Rutledge, Lee,
and Jay,
:|and by their side there stood bowed in reverence, the Puritan
Patriots of
:|New England, who at that moment had reason to believe that an armed
:|soldiery was wasting their humble households. It was believed that
Boston
:|had been bombarded and destroyed.
:|(End extracts)
:|
:|(Washington is # 9 in the depiction)
:|
:|We factually know that it wasn't said in a letter from John Adams to
:|Abigail. So who was the author...if any?
I don't know.
One could write them and ask.
I suspect that few if any really know if Washington even bowed in
private. There are so many rumors and outright lies about him, things
that have been shown to be rumors and outright lies about him with
regards to religion.
For some it is so important that this man be some sort of god
incarnated super religious orthodox christian.
I gotta go get cat food but when I get back I am going to send you the
excerpts from Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, by
James H. Hutson onWashington.
This was the book that was published to go along with the LOC exhibit.
***************************************
From:
To: Glen Goffin <buffip2@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Answer...and the Reason
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:46:50 -0500
Reply-To:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:55:04 -0500, you wrote:
:|
:|We factually know that it wasn't said in a letter from John Adams to
:|Abigail. So who was the author...if any?
I wouuld say that unless somone can produce a cite to a primary souce
it be
treated as bogus
:|
:|(I'm enjoying this because of "rad." Ut's the primary reason I
bother to
:|respond to his posts. When I go looking for original source support, I
:|start running into little goodies like this. ---It is also why I
wrote my
:|letter of indictment of the Library of Congress exhibit.)
What is the curent URL of the latest "discussions with him?
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Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:06:42 -0500
To: jalison@
From: Glen Goffin <buffip2@comcast.net>
Subject: Fwd: A Kneeling George Washington?
(Jim: Where did you originally find this:)
To:
From: Glen Goffin <buffip2@comcast.net>
Subject: A Kneeling George Washington?
Dear Brother Paul,
While doing some research on America's first six Presidents, I
was fortunate enough to find all the wonderful work you have already
placed in the public domain. Thank you.
The information below caught my attention and interest. The
more
I investigated, the more it revealed a "Parson" Weems type propaganda
campaign to paint Brother Washington with a decidedly sectarian brush.
Since I am a strong proponent of Church-State (Organized
Religion-Government) separation, I found this to be rather
disturbing. I wondered if you might be able to shed some additional
light on the paragraph below?
http://bessel.org/gwrelig.htm
(Extracts)
Question About Washington Kneeling
On the other hand, another author says:
"Another debatable aspect is whether George Washington knelt in prayer.
The better indications are that he did not kneel in church but did kneel
in private. At that period of time, it was not customary for males to
kneel in church ... However, at the first Continental Congress, the
Reverend Jacob Duche, an Episcopalian, opened the session on
September 7,
1774 with a prayer. John Adams described the scene in a letter dated
that
same day and addressed to his wife. Adams wrote, 'Washington was
kneeling,
and Henry, and Randolph and Rutledge, and Lee and Jay....'
(End extracts)
The following links reveal a far more accurate history/picture:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwjc.html
(Vol I, pg. 27 & review of link related documents)
http://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/aea/cfm/doc.cfm?id=L17740916ja
Obviously the actual date of the letter is September 16, 1774 and
contains
no such observation concerning a "kneeling Washington." So from
whence did
that propaganda image arise? I honestly don't know; but I have a strong
suspicion that it began after the painting by Tompkins Harrison Matteson
(c.1848) was turned into the stained glass and lead "The Liberty Window"
at Christ Church, Philadelphia.
http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/vc006409.jpg
The fact that the Library of Congress e-exhibit uses that image
as its 'logo' does little to dissuade the public's mental image and
acceptance of a "kneeling Washington." (Reinforced by all the other
"creative" images of him kneeling in prayer that have been promoted by
vested interests since his death.)
http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/
The fact that many of the radical Christian right web pages
continue to promote the image of a deeply devout Christian Washington,
kneeling in prayer, tends to reinforce that vested interest image
in the
minds of the American public. Evidently a handful of Protestant 'true
believers' need a mortal "Saint" to worship. (Washington was no saint;
but he was a giant of his times.)
http://www.moralconcerns.org/past/Amer1774.htm
http://www.truthinhistory.org/1stprayer.htm
And many, many, many others who are only too happy to claim the
Library of Congress as their verification source. (Personally, I find
that exhibit to be deeply flawed and little more than an extremely
clever, denominational, Christian, propaganda piece being used to
proselytize an unsuspecting world-wide audience. (Given the current
state
of religious faith belief divisiveness in the world, I am appalled that
our government would add its imprimatur to this exhibit.)
So, after droning on about all of this, what would I request of
you? The following:
1. The name of the author/book/page number of the paragraph you
cited above.
2. Any additional verifiable information you may have uncovered
concerning a "kneeling Washington" since the creation of your excellent
and informative article.that you might wish to share with me.
Sincerely and appreciatively,
Bro Glen P. Goffin 32°
Lt.Col. USAF (Ret)
buffip2@comcast.net
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You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
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.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
