Religions > Atheism > Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?"
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Religions > Atheism |
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02 May 2005 10:58:05 AM |
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Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?" |
Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?
The intelligent-design movement is a small but growing force on US
university campuses. For some it bridges the gap between science and
faith, for others it goes beyond the pale. Geoff Brumfiel meets the
movement's vanguard.
for full article:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v434/n7037/full/4341062a.html
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?" |
03 May 2005 04:15:08 AM |
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wrote:
Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?
The intelligent-design movement is a small but growing force on US
university campuses. For some it bridges the gap between science and
faith, for others it goes beyond the pale. Geoff Brumfiel meets the
movement's vanguard.
for full article:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v434/n7037/full/4341062a.html
Intelligent design
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/9bffa0938bd2f64f
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| User: "Loadnlock" |
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| Title: Re: Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students'minds?" |
02 May 2005 12:24:09 PM |
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wrote:
Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?
The intelligent-design movement is a small but growing force on US
university campuses. For some it bridges the gap between science and
faith
That is a chasm too deep and too wide for any bridge.
'Intelligent design' is a theory (conjecture) with no basis in fact, and
supported entirely by a logical fallacy, the argument _ad ignorantiam_ that
there is no proof it is false.
See Dembski begging the question and appealing to lack of proof his theory is
false in : "Is Intelligent Design Testable?" by William A. Dembski,
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/dembski/docs/bd-testable.html
<quote>
Is intelligent design falsifiable? ... Intelligent design is eminently
falsifiable. Specified complexity in general and irreducible complexity in
biology are within the theory of intelligent design the key markers of
intelligent agency. If it could be shown that biological systems like the
bacterial flagellum that are wonderfully complex, elegant, and integrated
could have been formed by a gradual Darwinian process (which by definition is
non-telic), then intelligent design would be falsified on the general grounds
that one doesn't invoke intelligent causes when purely natural causes will do.
</quote>
See how he argues that there is no proof his theory is false (argument _ad
ignorantium_)?
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?" |
02 May 2005 04:49:12 PM |
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In article <m4qdnajaqcan_-vfRVn-uA@comcast.com>,
Loadnlock <loadnlock@nospam.net> wrote:
j.m.1491@gmx.net wrote:
Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?
The intelligent-design movement is a small but growing force on US
university campuses. For some it bridges the gap between science and
faith
That is a chasm too deep and too wide for any bridge.
Actually there are a lot of faithful theists who have no problems with
science. They tend to see the workings of nature as being their God's
design rather than, as the fundies do, having their God and nature on
opposite sides.
'Intelligent design' is a theory (conjecture) with no basis in fact, and
supported entirely by a logical fallacy, the argument _ad ignorantiam_ that
there is no proof it is false.
That statement maligns scientific usage of "theory".
In scientific usage, any theory is, at least in principle, capable of
being proved false.
ID is totally outside science and any hypotheses about it are
non-scientific, if not anti-scientific.
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| User: "Sasha" |
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| Title: Re: Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?" |
02 May 2005 02:16:12 PM |
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Yeah...I was always under the assumption that proving a theory false
doesn't automatically make a different theory true. "My mom said that
she didn't leave those eggs behind the couch, so it must have been the
Easter Bunny".
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students'minds?" |
02 May 2005 01:33:06 PM |
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wrote:
Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?
The intelligent-design movement is a small but growing force on US
university campuses. For some it bridges the gap between science and
faith, for others it goes beyond the pale. Geoff Brumfiel meets the
movement's vanguard.
for full article:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v434/n7037/full/4341062a.html
The thought of ID in universities doesn't repulse me as much as ID in
high schools. You choose what courses you pay for in uni, and no
reputable establishment would require an ID course for, say, a degree in
biology. A degree in "complete and utter horseshit," perhaps, but not
the sciences.
Besides, I'd like to think that university students would have the
cognitive abilities to listen to ***** without being consumed by it.
(Famous last words, I'm sure.) They're adults. Teaching it to kids
when they don't have a choice (and are far more impressionable) is what
burns my stake.
--
James B, master of the tri-pronged scrotal mount
aa #944
"All that belongs to human understanding, in this
deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical,
or at least cautious; and not to admit of any
hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which
is supported by no appearance of probability."
-David Hume
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Nature: "Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students'minds?" |
02 May 2005 06:55:37 PM |
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James wrote:
j.m.1491@gmx.net wrote:
Intelligent design: Who has designs on your students' minds?
The intelligent-design movement is a small but growing force on US
university campuses. For some it bridges the gap between science and
faith, for others it goes beyond the pale. Geoff Brumfiel meets the
movement's vanguard.
for full article:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v434/n7037/full/4341062a.html
The thought of ID in universities doesn't repulse me as much as ID in
high schools. You choose what courses you pay for in uni, and no
reputable establishment would require an ID course for, say, a degree in
biology. A degree in "complete and utter horseshit," perhaps, but not
the sciences.
Besides, I'd like to think that university students would have the
cognitive abilities to listen to ***** without being consumed by it.
Look around at what adults accept willingly as truth if they get it
repeated every Sunday morning in the comfortable community of the other
adults believing the same.
(Famous last words, I'm sure.) They're adults. Teaching it to kids
when they don't have a choice (and are far more impressionable) is what
burns my stake.
The first years of university are supposed to set the groundwork for
scientific work. If ID gets a hold there, you get a next generation
believing ID is science. And they will teach your kids. You'll get a
feedback loop:
- ID gets thought at home/church/school.
- Students go to college, miss it, want it.
- If they get courses there, next time you run in someone wanting it in
your school you'll be told "It's science, see, they teach it in college".
- You'll get even more high-school kids accepting it, believing it is
actual science.
- More students, who have been thought ID as science, go to college.
- More pressure to teach it there too.
Finally you get faculty members who have grown up with this system and
love ID. At this point, the whole education system, the peer review
process, the agencies distributing grant money, selection comities for
new faculty, *everything* would be infested with it. If this happens,
science as we know it is dead.
As of now, those people who are willing to accept the scientific method
and do not have an extensive understanding of the subject, will look to
the universities and the experts there to make up their mind. If ID gets
a hold there, you'll have it back in your school, with the label
"science" on it.
It doesn't actually matter where they sneak ID in, schools or
universities, if it gets a hold in either you'll have a hard time
keeping it out of the other.
Does it show that I'm scared?
j.m.
#1491
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