| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Gastrich" |
| Date: |
19 Mar 2005 06:27:59 AM |
| Object: |
NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
NBC News to feature the Creation Museum, March 25
"The NBC Nightly News . with Brian Williams" will showcase AiG's future
Creation Museum on a nationwide news broadcast, Friday evening, March 25
(appropriately, this is Good Friday), 2005.
An NBC producer and video crew spent several hours at AiG a few days ago.
The producer informs us that on March 25, the news segment will look at
"vacation destination" possibilities for Christians. Even though the entire
Creation Museum, located two exits west of the Cincinnati Airport, will not
be open for at least two years (although initial sections will open later
this year), the work already completed at the museum site-and with the heavy
media coverage the museum has received worldwide-has prompted NBC to feature
this national center.
Please forward this email to your pastor, church friends, family and others
and let them know that AiG President Ken Ham and the museum will be on
national TV on the evening of March 25 (check your local listings for the
time in your area; schedule is subject to change). At the same time, let
them know of our museum website, www.CreationMuseum.org (where they can see
the museum progress).
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free
indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
19 Mar 2005 05:26:47 PM |
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:PDP_d.3616$4Y.842@twister.socal.rr.com:
Please forward this email to your pastor, church friends, family and
others and let them know that AiG President Ken Ham and the museum
will be on national TV on the evening of March 25 (check your local
listings for the time in your area; schedule is subject to change). At
the same time, let them know of our museum website,
www.CreationMuseum.org (where they can see the museum progress).
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is going
to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's commandments and
seduce others into doing so.
But I'm sure it will draw the terminally self-righteous hypocrite set like
a magnet!
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
19 Mar 2005 06:13:31 PM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:PDP_d.3616$4Y.842@twister.socal.rr.com:
Please forward this email to your pastor, church friends, family and
others and let them know that AiG President Ken Ham and the museum
will be on national TV on the evening of March 25 (check your local
listings for the time in your area; schedule is subject to change).
At the same time, let them know of our museum website,
www.CreationMuseum.org (where they can see the museum progress).
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
But I'm sure it will draw the terminally self-righteous hypocrite set
like a magnet!
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 04:50:54 PM |
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239@twister.socal.rr.com...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:PDP_d.3616$4Y.842@twister.socal.rr.com:
Please forward this email to your pastor, church friends, family and
others and let them know that AiG President Ken Ham and the museum
will be on national TV on the evening of March 25 (check your local
listings for the time in your area; schedule is subject to change).
At the same time, let them know of our museum website,
www.CreationMuseum.org (where they can see the museum progress).
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
Wow! That's probably the most intelligent thing you've ever posted ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 01:06:04 AM |
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239
@twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Ken Smith" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 11:41:32 PM |
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Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> writes:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239
@twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm not sure about this, but the sentiment is OK.
I'll try to dig out something I read a number of years ago on the
topic and post it
Salaam
Ken Smith
--
Dr Ken Smith - Christian, husband, unpaid mathematician, skeptic, ...
"It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms
with stupidity and make it work for you."
Frank Zappa
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
22 Mar 2005 05:16:38 PM |
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(Ken Smith) wrote in news:d1nm3c$jue$1
@bunyip2.cc.uq.edu.au:
Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> writes:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in news:fZZ_d.3639
$4Y.3239
@twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm not sure about this, but the sentiment is OK.
It's certainly true in jurisprudence. That's why we have such stiff laws
against perjury.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 01:16:49 AM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239 @twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
Can you show some proof that AIG is bent on theocracy?
JG
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 06:20:01 PM |
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in news:5a4%d.3755$4Y.1952
@twister.socal.rr.com:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239 @twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
Can you show some proof that AIG is bent on theocracy?
Their website. Their activities since their inception. Just about every
word they publish. They are part of an insidious attempt to insinuate
their false teachings into school science classes in the USA.
Morally it's the EXACT equivalent of Nebuchadnezzar setting up his idol
in the public place and demanding worship for it. Only they don't have
Nebuchadnezzar's power--just WISH they did.
If this were not so, they would be content to teach their lies in the
buildings they call churches and leave the secular school system alone.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 -- TALIBAN |
20 Mar 2005 09:23:41 PM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in news:5a4%d.3755$4Y.1952
@twister.socal.rr.com:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239 @twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
Can you show some proof that AIG is bent on theocracy?
Their website. Their activities since their inception. Just about every
word they publish. They are part of an insidious attempt to insinuate
their false teachings into school science classes in the USA.
Morally it's the EXACT equivalent of Nebuchadnezzar setting up his idol
in the public place and demanding worship for it. Only they don't have
Nebuchadnezzar's power--just WISH they did.
If this were not so, they would be content to teach their lies in the
buildings they call churches and leave the secular school system alone.
===>It is the US equivalent of the Taliban & intellectual
(& sometimes even physical) terrorism. -- L.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Steven J." |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 04:53:16 AM |
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Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239 @twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it
is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
Can you show some proof that AIG is bent on theocracy?
You don't ask for proof that they're heretics. I can think of four
reasons for that: you already agree that they're heretics, or you
regard it as obviously false (while considering it possible that they
aspire to theocracy), or you ascribe the charge to a difference of
theological opinion not susceptible to evidence, or you're afraid that
evidence of heresy (as opposed to specific political aims) is too easy
to provide. Are any of these your position?
You've said elsewhere on other occasions that you trust Answers in
Genesis. I assume you mean, not just that you wouldn't hide your
valuables if they came over for dinner, but that you think they provide
accurate information about and analysis of mainstream scientific
theories. Why do you think this? It can't just be because you find
them theologically correct; after all, you presumably consider yourself
to be theologically correct, but don't claim to know, e.g. how to
define and recognize "kinds" or explain pseudogenes.
But if you can be orthodox but ignorant of science, what prevents the
staff of AiG from being the same? Now, you could argue that they're
accurate where you can check their claims against your own knowledge of
the subject, and so you assume they're equally accurate where you are
ignorant. But this would not be a convincing claim from someone who
needs to cite AiG to answer *any* remotely technical question about
creationism (i.e. you don't know enough science to tell if they're
telling it straight on any question).
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're probably
as bad even when I can't personally refute their arguments. Jonathon
Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence *against* common descent the
fact (which is, in fact, a prediction of common descent) that lampreys
(jawless fish) are genetically as distant from jawed fish as they are
from humans. If he can get that wrong, what can he be trusted to get
right?
JG
-- [snip]
-- Steven J.
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 06:23:21 PM |
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"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fZZ_d.3639$4Y.3239 @twister.socal.rr.com:
Actual Christians should avoid the place like a plague, since it
is
going to be run by heretics whose mission is to defy God's
commandments and seduce others into doing so.
Huh?
You heard me. It's a front for theocratic heretics.
Can you show some proof that AIG is bent on theocracy?
You don't ask for proof that they're heretics. I can think of four
reasons for that: you already agree that they're heretics, or you
regard it as obviously false (while considering it possible that they
aspire to theocracy), or you ascribe the charge to a difference of
theological opinion not susceptible to evidence, or you're afraid that
evidence of heresy (as opposed to specific political aims) is too easy
to provide. Are any of these your position?
You've said elsewhere on other occasions that you trust Answers in
Genesis. I assume you mean, not just that you wouldn't hide your
valuables if they came over for dinner, but that you think they provide
accurate information about and analysis of mainstream scientific
theories. Why do you think this? It can't just be because you find
them theologically correct; after all, you presumably consider yourself
to be theologically correct, but don't claim to know, e.g. how to
define and recognize "kinds" or explain pseudogenes.
But if you can be orthodox but ignorant of science, what prevents the
staff of AiG from being the same? Now, you could argue that they're
What prevents them from being ignorant of science and honest is the fact
that they are claiming (and in some cases actually possess) scientific
credentials that imply that they know better. Thus they are either lying
about the science or lying about their expertise in it. Either way, such
a character defect implies that you cannot trust them.
There are as many reasons for the lying, probably, as there are
participants. Those range from outright fraud to a mistaken notion that
the "public" are too ignorant to be trusted with the truth and must
therefore be misled by a pious fraud. But whatever the motive, the
result is still EVIL.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "JISTASKKIN" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 02:34:29 PM |
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"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're probably
as bad even when I can't personally refute their arguments. Jonathon
Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence *against* common descent the
fact (which is, in fact, a prediction of common descent) that lampreys
(jawless fish) are genetically as distant from jawed fish as they are
from humans. If he can get that wrong, what can he be trusted to get
right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many, many
years ago.
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated irrespective of
the "correctness" of the material.
See Eugenie Scott's argument for keeping the Haeckel drawings as an example.
JG
-- [snip]
-- Steven J.
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 06:25:43 PM |
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"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're probably
as bad even when I can't personally refute their arguments. Jonathon
Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence *against* common descent
the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction of common descent) that
lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as distant from jawed fish as
they are from humans. If he can get that wrong, what can he be
trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about it?
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated irrespective
of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That does
not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because someone's
sky map is off a bit.
See Eugenie Scott's argument for keeping the Haeckel drawings as an
example.
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is with the
average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating that THOSE
be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "JISTASKKIN" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 08:42:43 PM |
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"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns961F6A13F75DAdoldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159...
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're probably
as bad even when I can't personally refute their arguments. Jonathon
Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence *against* common descent
the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction of common descent) that
lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as distant from jawed fish as
they are from humans. If he can get that wrong, what can he be
trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about it?
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated irrespective
of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That does
not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because someone's
sky map is off a bit.
See Eugenie Scott's argument for keeping the Haeckel drawings as an
example.
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is with the
average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating that THOSE
be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
So Dave, when people see you swearing and using all manner of vulgarity,
what kind of impression do you think they get about your faith?
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 04:20:35 AM |
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"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:7fl%d.79650$i6.70391@edtnps90:
"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns961F6A13F75DAdoldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159...
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're
probably as bad even when I can't personally refute their
arguments. Jonathon Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence
*against* common descent the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction
of common descent) that lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as
distant from jawed fish as they are from humans. If he can get
that wrong, what can he be trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded
many, many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about
it?
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated
irrespective of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That
does not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because
someone's sky map is off a bit.
See Eugenie Scott's argument for keeping the Haeckel drawings as an
example.
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is with
the average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating that
THOSE be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
So Dave, when people see you swearing and using all manner of
vulgarity, what kind of impression do you think they get about your
faith?
Probably about the same impression they got from a certain person who
took a whip to a bunch of hypocritical money changers in a temple one
day, or from a certain bunch of fishermen known as the "sons of thunder."
There are times when strong language is called for. And just because you
spit out your lies with a nice warm smile on your face and in pleasing-
sounding words, does not make them any less filthy or any less lies.
God gave no commandments against the use of scatological metaphors. But
I do believe that He said not to bear false witness and not to blaspheme.
Creationist apologists do both and suborn others to do both.
The second-hand grass that is emitted from the back end of a bull smells
the same no matter what you call it.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 06:50:25 PM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're
probably as bad even when I can't personally refute their
arguments. Jonathon Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence
*against* common descent the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction
of common descent) that lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as
distant from jawed fish as they are from humans. If he can get
that wrong, what can he be trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about
it?
Because it makes absurd, sweeping statements about the distant and
unobservable past.
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated
irrespective of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That does
not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because
someone's sky map is off a bit.
See Eugenie Scott's argument for keeping the Haeckel drawings as an
example.
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is with
the average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating that
THOSE be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
Hahaha. Another dishonest Haeckel supporter. Haeckel's drawings helped
create and fuel Nazi Germany, so keep going with this. It's getting good.
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 04:16:51 AM |
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:RBj%d.3889$4Y.584@twister.socal.rr.com:
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is with
the average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating that
THOSE be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
Hahaha. Another dishonest Haeckel supporter. Haeckel's drawings
helped create and fuel Nazi Germany, so keep going with this. It's
getting good.
It's OK. I do understand that you have to serve your master, Satan, in
this fashion. If you didn't lie daily about something, you would not
receive the financial and political rewards he has promised you. Does it
NEVER occur to you people that he is LYING TO YOU? That he will give you
NOTHING for your souls but just cart you off to hell at the end of your
miserable earthly existence?
You know why fundies hate God so much? They are narcissists and their
REAL god will die when they do.
I leave the dishonesty to creationists. You are SO much better at it
than I could ever hope to be. But then you see, *I* am not willing to
sell my soul to the devil for a little temporal gratification.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 02:58:20 AM |
|
|
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RBj%d.3889$4Y.584@twister.socal.rr.com...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're
probably as bad even when I can't personally refute their
arguments. Jonathon Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence
*against* common descent the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction
of common descent) that lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as
distant from jawed fish as they are from humans. If he can get
that wrong, what can he be trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about
it?
Because it makes absurd, sweeping statements about the distant and
unobservable past.
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated
irrespective of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That does
not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because
someone's sky map is off a bit.
See Eugenie Scott's argument for keeping the Haeckel drawings as an
example.
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is with
the average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating that
THOSE be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
Hahaha. Another dishonest Haeckel supporter. Haeckel's drawings helped
create and fuel Nazi Germany, so keep going with this. It's getting good.
Yeah, those good christian Nazis. They were a fun bunch, weren't they?
Stomping around with those "Gott Mit Uns" (God is with us) belt buckles.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Steven J." |
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| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 05:33:50 AM |
|
|
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RBj%d.3889$4Y.584@twister.socal.rr.com...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
-- [snip]
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is
with
the average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating
that
THOSE be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
Hahaha. Another dishonest Haeckel supporter. Haeckel's drawings
helped
create and fuel Nazi Germany, so keep going with this. It's
getting good.
Yeah, those good christian Nazis. They were a fun bunch, weren't
they?
Stomping around with those "Gott Mit Uns" (God is with us) belt
buckles.
Now, in strict fairness it should probably be noted that the belt
buckle motto dated back to the Second Reich and the Kaiser's army. The
Nazis kept it, of course, but they eventually relaxed the requirement
that all officers in the German army be Christians of some variety
(they allowed in deists). Yes, Hitler often professed his
Christianity, and denounced atheism, but I don't think the guys who
legalized polygamy, encouraged unmarried women to get pregnant, and
outlawed abortion for good Aryans but funded it for "inferior" races,
quite qualify as stereotypical "Christian rightests."
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
-- Steven J.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 11:38:17 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <RBj%d.3889$4Y.584@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're probably
as bad even when I can't personally refute their arguments. Jonathon
Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence *against* common descent
the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction of common descent) that
lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as distant from jawed fish as
they are from humans. If he can get that wrong, what can he be
trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about it?
Because it makes absurd, sweeping statements about the distant and
unobservable past.
You mean such as "In the beginning, God created..."
That's a rather sweeping statement about the distant past and you weren't
there to observe it now were you?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
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| User: "Steven J." |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 01:26:06 AM |
|
|
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're
probably as bad even when I can't personally refute their
arguments. Jonathon Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence
*against* common descent the fact (which is, in fact, a
prediction
of common descent) that lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically
as
distant from jawed fish as they are from humans. If he can get
that wrong, what can he be trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded
many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about
it?
Because it makes absurd, sweeping statements about the distant and
unobservable past.
First of all, why is it relevant that the past in question is
"distant?" It is very common for scientific means to be brought to
bear on questions of what happened in the unobservable past. The NTSB
does this routinely for aircraft crashes. Forensic technicians do it
routinely in the investigation of unobserved crimes. The past can be
studied from the evidence surviving to the present.
Note two things here. First of all, all investigations of the
unobserved past depend on the assumption that nature behaved, in the
unobserved past, as it did in the observed past -- that the same "laws
of science" uncovered in the lab apply in the back alley last night, or
in the air over a swamp last month, or in Pangea two million centuries
ago. If you don't assume this -- if you assume that the laws of nature
can vary *undetectably* without notice or warning -- then there's no
obvious point to doing science at all.
Second, note that it makes no fundamental difference in principle
whether we have real or alleged eyewitnesses to an event. An
eyewitness account is simply another sort of evidence, requiring
inferences as to the events that produced it, and demanding, in order
to be interpreted, inferences about the unique, unobservable past state
of mind of the witness. This is quite apart from the well-known fact
that eyewitnesses can lie (even about being eyewitnesses) or be
honestly mistaken, or be misinterpreted.
So "sweeping statements about the distant unobservable past" are not
inherently absurd. If they are based on the evidence, they are clearly
not absurd. That the conclusions drawn from the evidence contradict
your own beliefs, that does not show that they are absurd; at best, it
shows that either they or your own beliefs are absurd.
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated
irrespective of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That
does
not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because
someone's sky map is off a bit.
See Eugenie Scott's argument for keeping the Haeckel drawings as
an
example.
There is far less wrong with the Haeckel drawings than there is
with
the average young-earth apologetic. I do not see you advocating
that
THOSE be abandoned. Are you a DEVOUT hypocrite?
Hahaha. Another dishonest Haeckel supporter. Haeckel's drawings
helped
create and fuel Nazi Germany, so keep going with this. It's getting
good.
Jason, would you care to elaborate on this charge? I have heard that
Haeckel was something of an anti-semite. I don't really see any trace
of such beliefs (or of nationalist or socialist beliefs) in Haeckel's
embryo drawings, or any reason that such drawings should create any
enthusiasm for totalitarian rule, military adventurism, or rabid
eugenics policies.
The Nazis, for their parts, were great fans of natural selection
(although, when it came to racial policy, they did not trust natural
selection but replaced it with viciously murderous artificial
selection), but they did not present it as *transforming* species or
causing them to give rise to many different species, but rather as
purifying species and removing undesirable traits in order to benefit
the race. Oddly, most creationists accept this view of natural
selection.
The Nazi view of natural selection differed from Darwin's in that
Darwin did not view any trait as globally or inherently "superior," but
only fitter or less fit in a particular environment (and "fitter" in
one environment could be "less fit" in another). From a Darwinian
point of view, "purifying" a "race" is close to meaningless; variation
within populations is natural and inevitable.
Now, I have read that Haeckel himself accepted gradual common descent
but did not think that natural selection was important to the process.
But the Nazis, for their part, placed little emphasis on common descent
(Hitler is quoted in the _Table Talk_ as doubting that humans could
have arisen by natural processes), and in any case it's hard to see how
"we all share common ancestors with monkeys" could lead to "we ought to
exterminate all members of that other ethnic group." As has been
pointed out, all differences among human populations are by definition
instances of *micro*evolution, not macroevolution.
So I can't quite see the connection between either Haekel's drawings or
evolutionary theory and Nazism.
Haecel's drawings slightly exaggerate the morphological similarities
among embryos of different species. They omit some details from the
embryos -- yolk sacs and membranes that would confuse the viewers. The
actual features exist and are homologous between the different species.
-- [snip]
-- Steven J.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 09:32:59 PM |
|
|
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're probably
as bad even when I can't personally refute their arguments. Jonathon
Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence *against* common descent
the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction of common descent) that
lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as distant from jawed fish as
they are from humans. If he can get that wrong, what can he be
trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about it?
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated irrespective
of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That does
not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because someone's
sky map is off a bit.
===>Yes.
Why not abandon planetary research, say, the study of Mars,
because Lowell thought he saw canals on it? ;-) -- L.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JISTASKKIN" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
20 Mar 2005 11:12:10 PM |
|
|
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:423DEC0B.DE14146@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're probably
as bad even when I can't personally refute their arguments. Jonathon
Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence *against* common descent
the fact (which is, in fact, a prediction of common descent) that
lampreys (jawless fish) are genetically as distant from jawed fish as
they are from humans. If he can get that wrong, what can he be
trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded many,
many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about it?
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated irrespective
of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That does
not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because someone's
sky map is off a bit.
===>Yes.
Why not abandon planetary research, say, the study of Mars,
because Lowell thought he saw canals on it? ;-) -- L.
I agree with you, ask Steven J, that is what *his* point was.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 04:23:13 AM |
|
|
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:ern%d.77313$gJ3.25043@clgrps13:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:423DEC0B.DE14146@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com> wrote in message
news:1111294396.669752.302680@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jason Gastrich wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Now, for my own part, I tend to assume that if they're wrong or
illogical wherever I can check their facts or logic, they're
probably as bad even when I can't personally refute their
arguments. Jonathon Sarfati, for example, has used as evidence
*against* common descent the fact (which is, in fact, a
prediction of common descent) that lampreys (jawless fish) are
genetically as distant from jawed fish as they are from humans.
If he can get that wrong, what can he be trusted to get right?
Based on that premise and logic, ToE should have been discarded
many, many years ago.
Why? Surely not because a bunch of committed liars have lied about
it?
In fact, inaccuracies concerning ToE have been propagated
irrespective of the "correctness" of the material.
There are inaccuracies in any body of scientific knowledge. That
does not mean that we should abandon, say, astronomy, simply because
someone's sky map is off a bit.
===>Yes.
Why not abandon planetary research, say, the study of Mars,
because Lowell thought he saw canals on it? ;-) -- L.
I agree with you, ask Steven J, that is what *his* point was.
The claim was that evolution should be abandoned because of alleged
inaccuracies in our knowledge of it.
In that case young-earth creationism should have been abandoned 100 years
ago. Because, by then, all of the main claims of the theory had been
disproved. Yet, here we are in the 21st century and people are still
running around spewing lies about it being "scientific."
They are liars and will have no place in God's kingdom unless they repent
their lies.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
|
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| User: "Grendel" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 03:23:24 PM |
|
|
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:ern%d.77313$gJ3.25043@clgrps13:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:423DEC0B.DE14146@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
===>Yes.
Why not abandon planetary research, say, the study of Mars,
because Lowell thought he saw canals on it? ;-) -- L.
I agree with you, ask Steven J, that is what *his* point was.
The claim was that evolution should be abandoned because of alleged
inaccuracies in our knowledge of it.
Dave you are getting mixed up or lying again. Hard to know for sure with
you these days. Slowly now, that was the counter challenge claim I made.
The original claim that a theory be abandoned "because of alleged
inaccuracies " was made by Steven J. But of course now that you
realize a fellow evolutionist made the logically absurd comment, you
will now go into a conciliatory double speak suck up language.
Ok Dave, feel free to burst into vulgarity and swearing and other
similarly acceptable practices and doctrines of your "faith"
It's been a while since you threatened to sic your demon servants on me,
try that for a change.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 03:31:49 PM |
|
|
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in news:MFB%d.84453$fc4.62934@edtnps89:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:ern%d.77313$gJ3.25043@clgrps13:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:423DEC0B.DE14146@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:VRf%d.82546$fc4.56830@edtnps89:
===>Yes.
Why not abandon planetary research, say, the study of Mars,
because Lowell thought he saw canals on it? ;-) -- L.
I agree with you, ask Steven J, that is what *his* point was.
The claim was that evolution should be abandoned because of alleged
inaccuracies in our knowledge of it.
Dave you are getting mixed up or lying again. Hard to know for sure
with
you these days. Slowly now, that was the counter challenge claim I
made.
The original claim that a theory be abandoned "because of alleged
inaccuracies " was made by Steven J. But of course now that you
realize a fellow evolutionist made the logically absurd comment, you
will now go into a conciliatory double speak suck up language.
Well, I did sort of burst into the thread in the middle. But the idea
that ANY theory should be discarded merely because of inaccuracies
somewhere in the literature is wrong. The problem with latter-day young-
earth creationism is that it is one BIG inaccuracy, starting with the
totally false claim of most of its apologists that they hold their views
on account of scientific inquiry. The simple flat fact is that those who
make that claim are lying. They hold their views on account of religious
dogma. Period.
Ok Dave, feel free to burst into vulgarity and swearing and other
similarly acceptable practices and doctrines of your "faith"
I'll leave the vulgarity to you for now.
It's been a while since you threatened to sic your demon servants on
me,
try that for a change.
I don't have any demon servants. But yours WILL obey an exorcism and go
back to hell where you got them. If you remain too attached, you will
end up there with them. I have seen this happen.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Grendel" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 05:45:16 PM |
|
|
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in news:MFB%d.84453$fc4.62934@edtnps89:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:ern%d.77313$gJ3.25043@clgrps13:
It's been a while since you threatened to sic your demon servants on
me,
try that for a change.
I don't have any demon servants. But yours WILL obey an exorcism and go
back to hell where you got them. If you remain too attached, you will
end up there with them. I have seen this happen.
Fascinating, were you able to communicate in some manner with the demons?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 08:07:08 PM |
|
|
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in news:MKD%d.85490$gJ3.39105@clgrps13:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in
news:MFB%d.84453$fc4.62934@edtnps89:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:ern%d.77313$gJ3.25043@clgrps13:
It's been a while since you threatened to sic your demon servants on
me,
try that for a change.
I don't have any demon servants. But yours WILL obey an exorcism and
go back to hell where you got them. If you remain too attached, you
will end up there with them. I have seen this happen.
Fascinating, were you able to communicate in some manner with the
demons?
Not directly. But my prayers to have them expelled and sent back to hell
were answered by God. And I could see that they had gone.
The only communication I've ever gotten FROM a demon was a temptation.
And we all get those all the time. But some, like you, wallow in falling
into temptation while others resist, or at least TRY to.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
21 Mar 2005 09:06:35 PM |
|
|
"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns96207B4526C5Cdoldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159...
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in news:MKD%d.85490$gJ3.39105@clgrps13:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in
news:MFB%d.84453$fc4.62934@edtnps89:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:ern%d.77313$gJ3.25043@clgrps13:
It's been a while since you threatened to sic your demon servants on
me,
try that for a change.
I don't have any demon servants. But yours WILL obey an exorcism and
go back to hell where you got them. If you remain too attached, you
will end up there with them. I have seen this happen.
Fascinating, were you able to communicate in some manner with the
demons?
Not directly. But my prayers to have them expelled and sent back to hell
were answered by God. And I could see that they had gone.
You could see demons?
The only communication I've ever gotten FROM a demon was a temptation.
And we all get those all the time. But some, like you, wallow in falling
into temptation while others resist, or at least TRY to.
So, every time you crave a milkshake, you think that's cause by a demon?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
|
| Title: Re: NBC News to Feature Creation Museum, March 25 |
22 Mar 2005 05:15:20 PM |
|
|
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3a8r9qF67t67sU1@individual.net:
"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns96207B4526C5Cdoldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159...
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in
news:MKD%d.85490$gJ3.39105@clgrps13:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Grendel <nadda@trynot.com> wrote in
news:MFB%d.84453$fc4.62934@edtnps89:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
"JISTASKKIN" <try_not@here.com> wrote in
news:ern%d.77313$gJ3.25043@clgrps13:
It's been a while since you threatened to sic your demon servants
on
me,
try that for a change.
I don't have any demon servants. But yours WILL obey an exorcism
and go back to hell where you got them. If you remain too
attached, you will end up there with them. I have seen this
happen.
Fascinating, were you able to communicate in some manner with the
demons?
Not directly. But my prayers to have them expelled and sent back to
hell were answered by God. And I could see that they had gone.
You could see demons?
No, but I could see that they were gone.
The only communication I've ever gotten FROM a demon was a
temptation. And we all get those all the time. But some, like you,
wallow in falling into temptation while others resist, or at least
TRY to.
So, every time you crave a milkshake, you think that's cause by a
demon?
Nope...
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
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