Religions > Atheism > Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition.
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Lee me@localhost" |
| Date: |
05 Nov 2007 06:45:02 AM |
| Object: |
Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Doctors and medics begged her 24-year-old husband, Anthony, and other
relatives to overrule a form she had ticked insisting that she should not be
given blood because of her faith. But the family refused to do so.
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in Barbados two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the
technology there is.
"What makes it even more sad is Emma had time to hold and start to bond with
her twins before the complications set in."
The Sun said that the coroner's office was investigating the woman's death
and an inquest would be held.
Jehovah's Witnesses, who espouse an early version of Christianity, are
automatically declared outcasts from their faith if they take blood into the
body, whether through the mouth or veins.
They cite verses from the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to support
their position, including Genesis 9 vs 3-4: "Every moving animal that is
alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do
give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not eat."
Acts 15:28-29 says: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favoured
adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep
abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things
strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these
things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
Transfusions of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and plasma are
forbidden. In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions from each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?RORyRmzka2Vu?=" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 12:51:51 PM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f1008$0$21087$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
And the wicked GB are dancing for joy that she commit suicide as they demand
their followers do when blood is needed.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 08:05:35 AM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f1008$0$21087$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
What a fucking waste :(
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 08:46:17 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5pbahqFqfqmhU1@mid.individual.net...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f1008$0$21087$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
What a fucking waste :(
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
It seems strange that a person that wishes to end the life of a spouse
because of a incurable and painful disease is subject to all kind of legal
hurdles while a young mother of twins can be let die with no hassle just
because some version of Jehovah is supposed to have said it is the right
thing to do.
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 11:32:00 AM |
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On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:46:17 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5pbahqFqfqmhU1@mid.individual.net...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f1008$0$21087$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
What a fucking waste :(
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
It seems strange that a person that wishes to end the life of a spouse
because of a incurable and painful disease is subject to all kind of legal
hurdles while a young mother of twins can be let die with no hassle just
because some version of Jehovah is supposed to have said it is the right
thing to do.
The boundaries of religious freedom blur into polar absurdities. On
one hand you can abuse your children by depriving them of a parent by
adherence to an ancient myth, but the State can take your kids away if
you smoke flowers. I suppose in a Universe where a George Bush can be
President, truth is stranger than fiction.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 11:42:21 AM |
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"William Wingstedt" <William_Wingstedt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4730a349.313043592@Newsgroups.Comcast.net...
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:46:17 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5pbahqFqfqmhU1@mid.individual.net...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f1008$0$21087$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
What a fucking waste :(
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
It seems strange that a person that wishes to end the life of a spouse
because of a incurable and painful disease is subject to all kind of legal
hurdles while a young mother of twins can be let die with no hassle just
because some version of Jehovah is supposed to have said it is the right
thing to do.
The boundaries of religious freedom blur into polar absurdities. On
one hand you can abuse your children by depriving them of a parent by
adherence to an ancient myth, but the State can take your kids away if
you smoke flowers. I suppose in a Universe where a George Bush can be
President, truth is stranger than fiction.
Perhaps too many lawyers and not enough common sense.
.
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| User: "Ips-Switch" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 11:21:16 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5pbahqFqfqmhU1@mid.individual.net...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f1008$0$21087$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
What a fucking waste :(
Not to the Governing Body of the WTS. They really get off on something like
this happening. It proves to them their followers are so faithful to the
Society they're willing to commit passive suicide for it. They're an evil
bunch of sickos.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 11:51:15 AM |
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On 5 nov, 13:45, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Doctors and medics begged her 24-year-old husband, Anthony, and other
relatives to overrule a form she had ticked insisting that she should not be
given blood because of her faith. But the family refused to do so.
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in Barbados two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the
technology there is.
"What makes it even more sad is Emma had time to hold and start to bond with
her twins before the complications set in."
The Sun said that the coroner's office was investigating the woman's death
and an inquest would be held.
Jehovah's Witnesses, who espouse an early version of Christianity, are
automatically declared outcasts from their faith if they take blood into the
body, whether through the mouth or veins.
They cite verses from the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to support
their position, including Genesis 9 vs 3-4: "Every moving animal that is
alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do
give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not eat."
Acts 15:28-29 says: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favoured
adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep
abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things
strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these
things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
Transfusions of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and plasma are
forbidden. In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions from each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
So it seems there is a simple way to accept Pascal's Wager and loose!
It is really sad though that people who originally meant to be
seriously studying the bible, use a phrase that was meant to condemn
sacrifical offersings to idols and from eating/drinking blood, should
take it out of it;s context and apply it to something that did not
exist when te phrase was written down.
Surely accepting a transfusion has nothing to do with pouring blood
into your mouth?!?
Stupidity is a very human commodity
Peter van Velzen
November 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 12:39:21 PM |
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<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1194285075.951993.140580@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On 5 nov, 13:45, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Doctors and medics begged her 24-year-old husband, Anthony, and other
relatives to overrule a form she had ticked insisting that she should not
be
given blood because of her faith. But the family refused to do so.
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in Barbados
two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the
technology there is.
"What makes it even more sad is Emma had time to hold and start to bond
with
her twins before the complications set in."
The Sun said that the coroner's office was investigating the woman's
death
and an inquest would be held.
Jehovah's Witnesses, who espouse an early version of Christianity, are
automatically declared outcasts from their faith if they take blood into
the
body, whether through the mouth or veins.
They cite verses from the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to support
their position, including Genesis 9 vs 3-4: "Every moving animal that is
alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do
give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not eat."
Acts 15:28-29 says: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favoured
adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep
abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things
strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from
these
things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
Transfusions of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and plasma
are
forbidden. In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions from
each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
So it seems there is a simple way to accept Pascal's Wager and loose!
It is really sad though that people who originally meant to be
seriously studying the bible, use a phrase that was meant to condemn
sacrifical offersings to idols and from eating/drinking blood, should
take it out of it;s context and apply it to something that did not
exist when te phrase was written down.
Surely accepting a transfusion has nothing to do with pouring blood
into your mouth?!?
Stupidity is a very human commodity
'God' did not know about modern technology when the bible was written
unfortunately.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 08:23:00 AM |
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On 5 nov, 19:39, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
<pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1194285075.951993.140580@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On 5 nov, 13:45, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Doctors and medics begged her 24-year-old husband, Anthony, and other
relatives to overrule a form she had ticked insisting that she should not
be
given blood because of her faith. But the family refused to do so.
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in Barbados
two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the
technology there is.
"What makes it even more sad is Emma had time to hold and start to bond
with
her twins before the complications set in."
The Sun said that the coroner's office was investigating the woman's
death
and an inquest would be held.
Jehovah's Witnesses, who espouse an early version of Christianity, are
automatically declared outcasts from their faith if they take blood into
the
body, whether through the mouth or veins.
They cite verses from the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to support
their position, including Genesis 9 vs 3-4: "Every moving animal that is
alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do
give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not eat."
Acts 15:28-29 says: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favoured
adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep
abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things
strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from
these
things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
Transfusions of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and plasma
are
forbidden. In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions from
each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
So it seems there is a simple way to accept Pascal's Wager and loose!
It is really sad though that people who originally meant to be
seriously studying the bible, use a phrase that was meant to condemn
sacrifical offersings to idols and from eating/drinking blood, should
take it out of it;s context and apply it to something that did not
exist when te phrase was written down.
Surely accepting a transfusion has nothing to do with pouring blood
into your mouth?!?
Stupidity is a very human commodity
'God' did not know about modern technology when the bible was written
unfortunately.-
It reminds me of the moron who posts here under the name "Duke" who
once wrote that "Enlightenment was the work of Satan".
With such ideas (that unfortunately seem more and more widespread in
the USA), the question isn't "how do such things happen" but "how come
this doesn't happen more often".
Sad, very sad.
But there's hope that the kids will learn to think by themselves and
make up their own opinions based on an enlightened intellectual and
personal process (something several theists are incapable of doing).
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 09:58:21 AM |
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<parsifal50@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194358980.029055.184930@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On 5 nov, 19:39, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
<pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1194285075.951993.140580@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On 5 nov, 13:45, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma
Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Doctors and medics begged her 24-year-old husband, Anthony, and other
relatives to overrule a form she had ticked insisting that she should
not
be
given blood because of her faith. But the family refused to do so.
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in
Barbados
two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We
can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all
the
technology there is.
"What makes it even more sad is Emma had time to hold and start to
bond
with
her twins before the complications set in."
The Sun said that the coroner's office was investigating the woman's
death
and an inquest would be held.
Jehovah's Witnesses, who espouse an early version of Christianity, are
automatically declared outcasts from their faith if they take blood
into
the
body, whether through the mouth or veins.
They cite verses from the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to
support
their position, including Genesis 9 vs 3-4: "Every moving animal that
is
alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I
do
give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not
eat."
Acts 15:28-29 says: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have
favoured
adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to
keep
abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from
things
strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from
these
things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
Transfusions of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and
plasma
are
forbidden. In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body
representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions
from
each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
So it seems there is a simple way to accept Pascal's Wager and loose!
It is really sad though that people who originally meant to be
seriously studying the bible, use a phrase that was meant to condemn
sacrifical offersings to idols and from eating/drinking blood, should
take it out of it;s context and apply it to something that did not
exist when te phrase was written down.
Surely accepting a transfusion has nothing to do with pouring blood
into your mouth?!?
Stupidity is a very human commodity
'God' did not know about modern technology when the bible was written
unfortunately.-
It reminds me of the moron who posts here under the name "Duke" who
once wrote that "Enlightenment was the work of Satan".
With such ideas (that unfortunately seem more and more widespread in
the USA), the question isn't "how do such things happen" but "how come
this doesn't happen more often".
Sad, very sad.
But there's hope that the kids will learn to think by themselves and
make up their own opinions based on an enlightened intellectual and
personal process (something several theists are incapable of doing).
Perhaps his viewpoint may have been more enlightened if he had also lost his
mother to ignorance and superstition.
Twins usually develop a close relationship so perhaps this will make up a
little for losing their mother.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
23 Nov 2007 10:15:10 AM |
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 18:39:21 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1194285075.951993.140580@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On 5 nov, 13:45, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
[]
In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions from
each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
So it seems there is a simple way to accept Pascal's Wager and loose!
It is really sad though that people who originally meant to be
seriously studying the bible, use a phrase that was meant to condemn
sacrifical offersings to idols and from eating/drinking blood, should
take it out of it;s context and apply it to something that did not
exist when te phrase was written down.
Surely accepting a transfusion has nothing to do with pouring blood
into your mouth?!?
Stupidity is a very human commodity
'God' did not know about modern technology when the bible was written
unfortunately.
Ah, but 'he' did. Those omni characteristics, remember? It was
scripted and 'he' even watched the dying process.
.
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 01:07:53 PM |
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On Nov 5, 1:39 pm, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
<pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1194285075.951993.140580@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On 5 nov, 13:45, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Doctors and medics begged her 24-year-old husband, Anthony, and other
relatives to overrule a form she had ticked insisting that she should not
be
given blood because of her faith. But the family refused to do so.
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in Barbados
two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the
technology there is.
"What makes it even more sad is Emma had time to hold and start to bond
with
her twins before the complications set in."
The Sun said that the coroner's office was investigating the woman's
death
and an inquest would be held.
Jehovah's Witnesses, who espouse an early version of Christianity, are
automatically declared outcasts from their faith if they take blood into
the
body, whether through the mouth or veins.
They cite verses from the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to support
their position, including Genesis 9 vs 3-4: "Every moving animal that is
alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do
give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not eat."
Acts 15:28-29 says: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favoured
adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep
abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things
strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from
these
things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
Transfusions of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and plasma
are
forbidden. In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions from
each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
So it seems there is a simple way to accept Pascal's Wager and loose!
It is really sad though that people who originally meant to be
seriously studying the bible, use a phrase that was meant to condemn
sacrifical offersings to idols and from eating/drinking blood, should
take it out of it;s context and apply it to something that did not
exist when te phrase was written down.
Surely accepting a transfusion has nothing to do with pouring blood
into your mouth?!?
Stupidity is a very human commodity
'God' did not know about modern technology when the bible was written
unfortunately.- Hide quoted text -
Yeah I'd love to see what a God who couldn't do squat about "chariots
or iron" hold up if the enemy had fully automatic weapons.
Hatter
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 01:14:08 PM |
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"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194289673.087512.115510@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 5, 1:39 pm, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
<pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1194285075.951993.140580@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On 5 nov, 13:45, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma
Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Doctors and medics begged her 24-year-old husband, Anthony, and other
relatives to overrule a form she had ticked insisting that she should
not
be
given blood because of her faith. But the family refused to do so.
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in
Barbados
two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We
can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all
the
technology there is.
"What makes it even more sad is Emma had time to hold and start to
bond
with
her twins before the complications set in."
The Sun said that the coroner's office was investigating the woman's
death
and an inquest would be held.
Jehovah's Witnesses, who espouse an early version of Christianity, are
automatically declared outcasts from their faith if they take blood
into
the
body, whether through the mouth or veins.
They cite verses from the Old and New Testaments of the Bible to
support
their position, including Genesis 9 vs 3-4: "Every moving animal that
is
alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I
do
give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not
eat."
Acts 15:28-29 says: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have
favoured
adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to
keep
abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from
things
strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from
these
things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
Transfusions of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and
plasma
are
forbidden. In 2004 The Watchtower Society, the official body
representing
Jehovah's Witnesses, did however notify its members that fractions
from
each
of these, including red blood cells without a membrane, can be used in
medical procedures according to a Witness's own conscience.
So it seems there is a simple way to accept Pascal's Wager and loose!
It is really sad though that people who originally meant to be
seriously studying the bible, use a phrase that was meant to condemn
sacrifical offersings to idols and from eating/drinking blood, should
take it out of it;s context and apply it to something that did not
exist when te phrase was written down.
Surely accepting a transfusion has nothing to do with pouring blood
into your mouth?!?
Stupidity is a very human commodity
'God' did not know about modern technology when the bible was written
unfortunately.- Hide quoted text -
Yeah I'd love to see what a God who couldn't do squat about "chariots
or iron" hold up if the enemy had fully automatic weapons.
Hatter
He was supposed to be able to conjure up a mean rainstorm when he had the
genocide urge.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 05:26:25 PM |
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:14:08 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
He was supposed to be able to conjure up a mean rainstorm when he had the
genocide urge.
But creating a moral species was totally beyond his capability.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 06:32:32 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:6k9vi3tu2jv5jnvcarqi03j0gi33r8d2ph@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:14:08 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
He was supposed to be able to conjure up a mean rainstorm when he had the
genocide urge.
But creating a moral species was totally beyond his capability.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent
design."
-Josef Balluch
The idea of a god creating anyone just gets impossible if I start to give it
more than just a passing thought. The universe is no doubt a strange place
but the contents of holy books don't come anywhere near beginning to
describe it.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 08:20:19 PM |
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On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 00:32:32 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:6k9vi3tu2jv5jnvcarqi03j0gi33r8d2ph@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:14:08 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
He was supposed to be able to conjure up a mean rainstorm when he had the
genocide urge.
But creating a moral species was totally beyond his capability.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent
design."
-Josef Balluch
The idea of a god creating anyone just gets impossible if I start to give it
more than just a passing thought. The universe is no doubt a strange place
but the contents of holy books don't come anywhere near beginning to
describe it.
It describes the universe known to Neolithic herdsmen. People with
Neolithic brains still believe it.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been
witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor
of Hitler nor of Mussolini."
- Mehmet Elkatmi, head of Turkish parliament's human rights commission
on Bush's genocide in the Iraq war. 11-28-2004
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 02:17:51 PM |
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On 6 nov, 03:20, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 00:32:32 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"Al Klein" <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:6k9vi3tu2jv5jnvcarqi03j0gi33r8d2ph@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:14:08 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
He was supposed to be able to conjure up a mean rainstorm when he had the
genocide urge.
But creating a moral species was totally beyond his capability.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent
design."
-Josef Balluch
The idea of a god creating anyone just gets impossible if I start to give it
more than just a passing thought. The universe is no doubt a strange place
but the contents of holy books don't come anywhere near beginning to
describe it.
It describes the universe known to Neolithic herdsmen. People with
Neolithic brains still believe it.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been
witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor
of Hitler nor of Mussolini."
- Mehmet Elkatmi, head of Turkish parliament's human rights commission
on Bush's genocide in the Iraq war. 11-28-2004- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
Technically it was later bronze age or early iron age.
Scholars estimate the Thora to have been compiled no earlier than 700
BC, but several parts of it are at least as old as 1100 BC (almost
identical text were found at Ugarit dating that way back). The claim
that there was no iron sword amongst Israel - except for those of Saul
and Jonathan - makes me suspect that some of the events described may
have there origen in the bronze-age.
However the ideas of these people have originated in modern times.
I am sure none of the goatherdsman back than would have refused
medical aid, had it been available.
Stupidity is - still - a very human commodity
Peter van Velzen
November 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: AQOTM Nomination Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
23 Nov 2007 10:20:41 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:20:19 -0500, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 00:32:32 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:6k9vi3tu2jv5jnvcarqi03j0gi33r8d2ph@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:14:08 -0000, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
He was supposed to be able to conjure up a mean rainstorm when he had the
genocide urge.
But creating a moral species was totally beyond his capability.
The idea of a god creating anyone just gets impossible if I start to give it
more than just a passing thought. The universe is no doubt a strange place
but the contents of holy books don't come anywhere near beginning to
describe it.
It describes the universe known to Neolithic herdsmen. People with
Neolithic brains still believe it.
Seconds?
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 11:28:02 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:45:02 +0000, Lee wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Can you say, "Natural Selection?"
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 12:38:20 PM |
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"MarkA" <toor@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.11.05.17.28.00.327029@nowhere.com...
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:45:02 +0000, Lee wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the
Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Can you say, "Natural Selection?"
Guess you could, it is a disaster for the twins though. Perhaps they will
grow up wary of dodgy gods and stuff.
.
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| User: "Kathy" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 12:53:12 PM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f62d6$0$8420$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
Guess you could, it is a disaster for the twins though. Perhaps they will
grow up wary of dodgy gods and stuff.
Nope. They'll be taught their mother, a faithful JW, commit suicide because
that's what the GB demanded she do under the circumstances.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 01:04:06 PM |
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"Kathy" <Kathy9045@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:472f6694$0$1344$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f62d6$0$8420$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
Guess you could, it is a disaster for the twins though. Perhaps they will
grow up wary of dodgy gods and stuff.
Nope. They'll be taught their mother, a faithful JW, commit suicide
because that's what the GB demanded she do under the circumstances.
Hell that is seriously disturbing. There is a world of pain and ignorance
behind those innocuous little pamphlets that they hand out so casually.
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| User: "Kathy" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 10:49:53 PM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f68e0$0$13932$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
"Kathy" <Kathy9045@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:472f6694$0$1344$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f62d6$0$8420$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
Guess you could, it is a disaster for the twins though. Perhaps they
will grow up wary of dodgy gods and stuff.
Nope. They'll be taught their mother, a faithful JW, commit suicide
because that's what the GB demanded she do under the circumstances.
Hell that is seriously disturbing. There is a world of pain and ignorance
behind those innocuous little pamphlets that they hand out so casually.
Yep! The JWs are truly ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
23 Nov 2007 10:11:15 AM |
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:53:12 -0600, "Kathy" <Kathy9045@gmail.com>
wrote:
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message
news:472f62d6$0$8420$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
Guess you could, it is a disaster for the twins though. Perhaps they will
grow up wary of dodgy gods and stuff.
Nope. They'll be taught their mother, a faithful JW, commit suicide because
that's what the GB demanded she do under the circumstances.
Worse. It was 'lovingly' scripted eons ago.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupidsuperstition. |
06 Nov 2007 03:53:01 AM |
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MarkA wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:45:02 +0000, Lee wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Can you say, "Natural Selection?"
Can you say 'Primitive Superstition'?
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 02:34:45 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:28:02 -0500, MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:45:02 +0000, Lee wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Can you say, "Natural Selection?"
Too late. She already reproduced.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 04:38:49 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:34:45 -0500, John Baker wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:28:02 -0500, MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:45:02 +0000, Lee wrote:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece
A 22-year-old woman died within a few hours of giving birth to twins
because, as a Jehovah's Witness, she was not allowed to accept a blood
transfusion, The Sun reported today. The newspaper said that Emma Gough
suffered severe blood loss after giving birth to a boy and girl at the Royal
Hospital in Shrewsbury ten days ago.
Can you say, "Natural Selection?"
Too late. She already reproduced.
I'm an incurable optimist. I hope her kids grow up and say, "Our mom died
because of Bronze Age superstitions? What the ***** was WRONG with her?"
Then, they'll upload their cyber-avatars (remember, this will be in 14-16
years) to alt.atheism.
--
MarkA
(My OTHER sig line is clever)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
05 Nov 2007 12:59:06 PM |
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On Nov 5, 7:45 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
snippy
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in Barbados two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the
technology there is.
"..with all the technology there is."
Including....BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS. Fucking morons.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Needless religious death, twins left with no mother through stupid superstition. |
06 Nov 2007 08:09:17 AM |
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<panamfloyd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194289146.339711.55200@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 5, 7:45 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
snippy
Peter Welsh, the best man at the couple's wedding on a beach in Barbados
two
years ago, said: "Everyone is devastated by what has happened. We can't
believe that she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the
technology there is.
"..with all the technology there is."
Including....BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS. Fucking morons.
I also read the other day how a young mother died in South America because
of an ectopic pregnancy and no doctors wanted to touch her due to the strict
ban on abortion - she lingered in agony for FOUR days. Apparently there
they believe that due to "all the technology there is", there's absolutely
NO reason not to be able to save the mother AND the fetus. And if you can't,
then they apparently don't give a ***** if the mother dies. Disgusting :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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