| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
27 Jul 2007 12:06:26 PM |
| Object: |
New Documents Shed Light On Tillman's Death |
Was Mr. Tillman executed?
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/topstories_story_207212230.html
Jul 26, 2007 9:20 pm US/Eastern
New Documents Shed Light On Tillman's Death
(AP) SAN FRANCISCO Army medical examiners were suspicious about the
close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and
tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the
former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents
obtained by The Associated Press.
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as
described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on
the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors -- whose names were blacked out -- said that the bullet
holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut
down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked
Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they
had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon
eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a
friendly-fire accident.
The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of
testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in
response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
Among other information contained in the documents:
-- In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a
panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."
-- Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping
criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal
friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or
non-criminal, punishments.
-- The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from
his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a
bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.
-- No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene -- no one was
hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent
months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The
military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had
been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge
he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.
With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the
deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next
week.
The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments,
including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger
Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of
anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made
public.
In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector
general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted
other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70
occasions that he did not recall something.
At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right
now. I'm really having a problem."
Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was
deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for
answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.
"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and
justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.
The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was
suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said
he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command
and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal
Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal
case.
"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the
doctor testified.
Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and
soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.
"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22,
2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl.
Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an
investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.
Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting
was accidental.
Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was
disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was
considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and
well-liked.
The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.
It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal,
who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that
Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat
(expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.
But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who
debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.
The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at
Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him,
`Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you
need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."
--
Atheist n A person to be pitied in that he is
unable to believe things for which there is
no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of
a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
—Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: New Documents Shed Light On Tillman's Death |
27 Jul 2007 06:22:23 PM |
|
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In article <689ka35tkh68r9rom51o3kd61efm04rglm@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
Was Mr. Tillman executed?
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/topstories_story_207212230.html
Jul 26, 2007 9:20 pm US/Eastern
New Documents Shed Light On Tillman's Death
(AP) SAN FRANCISCO Army medical examiners were suspicious about the
close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and
tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the
former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents
obtained by The Associated Press.
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as
described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on
the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors -- whose names were blacked out -- said that the bullet
holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut
down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked
Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they
had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon
eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a
friendly-fire accident.
The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of
testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in
response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
Among other information contained in the documents:
-- In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a
panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."
-- Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping
criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal
friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or
non-criminal, punishments.
-- The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from
his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a
bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.
-- No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene -- no one was
hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent
months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The
military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had
been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge
he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.
With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the
deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next
week.
The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments,
including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger
Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of
anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made
public.
In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector
general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted
other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70
occasions that he did not recall something.
At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right
now. I'm really having a problem."
Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was
deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for
answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.
"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and
justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.
The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was
suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said
he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command
and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal
Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal
case.
"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the
doctor testified.
Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and
soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.
"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22,
2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl.
Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an
investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.
Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting
was accidental.
Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was
disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was
considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and
well-liked.
The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.
It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal,
who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that
Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat
(expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.
But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who
debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.
The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at
Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him,
`Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you
need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."
Makes you wonder. Was he 'fragged'? And if he was, why? I think there
are still many more questions than the answers provided so far.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: New Documents Shed Light On Tillman's Death |
05 Aug 2007 02:52:35 PM |
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:22:23 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <689ka35tkh68r9rom51o3kd61efm04rglm@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
Was Mr. Tillman executed?
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/topstories_story_207212230.html
Jul 26, 2007 9:20 pm US/Eastern
New Documents Shed Light On Tillman's Death
[]
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as
described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on
the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors -- whose names were blacked out -- said that the bullet
holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut
down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked
Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they
had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon
eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a
friendly-fire accident.
The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of
testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in
response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
Among other information contained in the documents:
-- In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a
panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."
-- Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping
criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal
friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or
non-criminal, punishments.
-- The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from
his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a
bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.
-- No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene -- no one was
hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent
months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The
military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had
been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge
he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.
With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the
deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next
week.
The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments,
including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger
Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of
anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made
public.
In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector
general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted
other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70
occasions that he did not recall something.
At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right
now. I'm really having a problem."
Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was
deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for
answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.
"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and
justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.
The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was
suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said
he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command
and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal
Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal
case.
"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the
doctor testified.
Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and
soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.
"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22,
2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl.
Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an
investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.
Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting
was accidental.
Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was
disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was
considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and
well-liked.
The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.
It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal,
who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that
Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat
(expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.
But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who
debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.
The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at
Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him,
`Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you
need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."
Makes you wonder. Was he 'fragged'? And if he was, why? I think there
are still many more questions than the answers provided so far.
It's quite clear the man was murdered. I doubt we'll ever know who
ordered the hit, or why.
.
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