| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
14 Jan 2008 10:34:58 PM |
| Object: |
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
updated 5:47 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2008
CHICAGO - {Reuters} New genetic evidence supports the theory that
Christopher Columbus brought syphilis to Europe from the New World,
U.S. researchers said Monday, reviving a centuries-old debate about
the origins of the disease.
They said a genetic analysis of the syphilis family tree reveals that
its closest relative was a South American cousin that causes yaws, an
infection caused by a sub-species of the same bacteria.
"Some people think it is a really ancient disease that our earliest
human ancestors would have had. Other people think it came from the
New World," said Kristin Harper, an evolutionary biologist at Emory
University in Atlanta.
"What we found is that syphilis or a progenitor came from the New
World to the Old World and this happened pretty recently in human
history," said Harper, whose study appears in journal Public Library
of Science Neglected Tropical Diseases.
She said the study lends credence to the "Columbian theory," which
links the first recorded European syphilis epidemic in 1495 to the
return of Columbus and his crew.
"When you put together our genetic data with that epidemic in Naples
in 1495, that is pretty strong support for the Columbian hypothesis,"
she said.
Syphilis, a sexually transmitted disease caused by the bacterium
Treponema pallidum, starts out as a sore, but progresses to a rash,
fever, and eventually can cause blindness, paralysis and dementia.
Most recent evidence of its origins comes from skeletal remains found
in both the New World and the Old World. Chronic syphilis can leave
telltale lesions on bone. "It has a worm-eaten appearance," Harper
said in a telephone interview.
Harper used an approach that examines the evolutionary relationships
between organisms known as phylogenetics. She looked at 26 strains of
Treponema, the family of bacteria that give rise to syphilis and
related diseases like bejel and yaws, typically a childhood disease
that is transmitted by skin-to-skin contact.
The study included two strains of yaws from remote areas of Guyana in
South America that had never been sequenced before.
"We sequenced 21 different regions trying to find DNA changes between
the strains," Harper said.
They concluded that while yaws is an ancient infection, venereal
syphilis came about fairly recently. Harper suspects a nonvenereal
subspecies of the tropical disease quickly evolved into venereal
syphilis that could survive in the cooler, European climate.
But it is not clear how this took place. "All we can say is the
ancestor of syphilis came from the New World, but what exactly it was
like, we don't know," she said.
In a commentary published in the same journal, Connie Mulligan of the
University of Florida and colleagues disagreed with Harper's analysis,
suggesting her conclusions relied too heavily on genetic changes from
the Guyana samples.
Mulligan suggested that better clues would come from DNA extracted
from ancient bones or preserved tissues.
Harper concedes that more work needs to be done to explain the journey
of syphilis to the New World. "This is a grainy photograph," she said.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
15 Jan 2008 12:39:13 AM |
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In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
updated 5:47 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2008
CHICAGO - {Reuters} New genetic evidence supports the theory that
Christopher Columbus brought syphilis to Europe from the New World,
U.S. researchers said Monday, reviving a centuries-old debate about
the origins of the disease.
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
They said a genetic analysis of the syphilis family tree reveals that
its closest relative was a South American cousin that causes yaws, an
infection caused by a sub-species of the same bacteria.
<snip>
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
16 Jan 2008 03:58:18 PM |
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On 15 jan, 07:39, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6...@4ax.com>,
=A0stoney <sto...@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=3D10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
updated 5:47 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2008
CHICAGO - {Reuters} New genetic evidence supports the theory that
Christopher Columbus brought syphilis to Europe from the New World,
U.S. researchers said Monday, reviving a centuries-old debate about
the origins of the disease.
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
I thought we send them smallpoxs?
You don't make a good impression if you are corected by perfect
submission!
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
17 Jan 2008 02:08:35 AM |
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In article
<737a5c0b-ae00-430c-8c91-77526ad6fafc@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
"pbamvv@worldonline.nl" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
On 15 jan, 07:39, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6...@4ax.com>,
stoney <sto...@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
updated 5:47 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2008
CHICAGO - {Reuters} New genetic evidence supports the theory that
Christopher Columbus brought syphilis to Europe from the New World,
U.S. researchers said Monday, reviving a centuries-old debate about
the origins of the disease.
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
I thought we send them smallpoxs?
We gave them smallpox as a bonus.
You don't make a good impression if you are corected by perfect
submission!
?
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
18 Jan 2008 10:31:01 AM |
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On 17 jan, 09:08, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article
<737a5c0b-ae00-430c-8c91-77526ad6f...@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
=A0"pba...@worldonline.nl" <pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
On 15 jan, 07:39, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6...@4ax.com>,
=A0stoney <sto...@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=3D10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New Wor=
ld
updated 5:47 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2008
CHICAGO - {Reuters} New genetic evidence supports the theory that
Christopher Columbus brought syphilis to Europe from the New World,
U.S. researchers said Monday, reviving a centuries-old debate about
the origins of the disease.
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the Ne=
w
World returned the favor with syphilis.
I thought we send them smallpoxs?
We gave them smallpox as a bonus.
No: As a form of Genocide
You don't make a good impression if you are corected by perfect
submission!
?
--
John #1782- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
.
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| User: "Perfect Islam" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
15 Jan 2008 09:29:41 PM |
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johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion) existed
in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
--
Perfect Islam
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
16 Jan 2008 12:13:54 AM |
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In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion) existed
in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe, but he brought a lot more.
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "Perfect Islam" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
16 Jan 2008 07:42:32 AM |
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johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each other.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into utpoia
by any measure.
--
Perfect Islam
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
17 Jan 2008 02:10:15 AM |
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In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
18 Jan 2008 02:12:22 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
20 Jan 2008 01:58:31 AM |
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In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
20 Jan 2008 02:04:59 AM |
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On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
21 Jan 2008 12:37:55 AM |
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|
In article <n406p3lbftb5t8rc7rpil1vjisdfl01g00@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and
the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each
other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
Well, those who wouldn't accept the bible had to be 'saved' by
alternative methods.
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
21 Jan 2008 01:05:36 AM |
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|
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:37:55 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <n406p3lbftb5t8rc7rpil1vjisdfl01g00@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and
the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each
other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
Well, those who wouldn't accept the bible had to be 'saved' by
alternative methods.
Blunderbuss, smallbox, and the sword of righteousness!
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
22 Jan 2008 12:21:54 AM |
|
|
In article <o0h8p3ld7rufsbsc9ju6cpb2c26cjv20g6@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:37:55 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <n406p3lbftb5t8rc7rpil1vjisdfl01g00@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from
New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and
the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with
religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations
in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each
other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
Well, those who wouldn't accept the bible had to be 'saved' by
alternative methods.
Blunderbuss, smallbox, and the sword of righteousness!
Or starvation after the pious Xtian invaders stole their food, burned
their crops, forced them off of their land, killed off all their game,
etc.
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
22 Jan 2008 03:55:26 PM |
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:21:54 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <o0h8p3ld7rufsbsc9ju6cpb2c26cjv20g6@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:37:55 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <n406p3lbftb5t8rc7rpil1vjisdfl01g00@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from
New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and
the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with
religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations
in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each
other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
Well, those who wouldn't accept the bible had to be 'saved' by
alternative methods.
Blunderbuss, smallbox, and the sword of righteousness!
Or starvation after the pious Xtian invaders stole their food, burned
their crops, forced them off of their land, killed off all their game,
etc.
Did I write "smallbox"?
I wonder what sort of affliction that is?
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
22 Jan 2008 11:45:35 PM |
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In article <jhpcp3tntibtv541muq4t1s7f0bemjeoc0@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:21:54 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <o0h8p3ld7rufsbsc9ju6cpb2c26cjv20g6@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:37:55 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <n406p3lbftb5t8rc7rpil1vjisdfl01g00@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe
from
New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World
and
the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with
religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the
place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great"
civilizations
in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each
other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive
into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic
theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in
colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
Well, those who wouldn't accept the bible had to be 'saved' by
alternative methods.
Blunderbuss, smallbox, and the sword of righteousness!
Or starvation after the pious Xtian invaders stole their food, burned
their crops, forced them off of their land, killed off all their game,
etc.
Did I write "smallbox"?
I wonder what sort of affliction that is?
Uh, I don't believe it's anything I have to worry about.
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
22 Jan 2008 04:29:57 PM |
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On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:25:26 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:21:54 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <o0h8p3ld7rufsbsc9ju6cpb2c26cjv20g6@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:37:55 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <n406p3lbftb5t8rc7rpil1vjisdfl01g00@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from
New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and
the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with
religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations
in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each
other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
Well, those who wouldn't accept the bible had to be 'saved' by
alternative methods.
Blunderbuss, smallbox, and the sword of righteousness!
Or starvation after the pious Xtian invaders stole their food, burned
their crops, forced them off of their land, killed off all their game,
etc.
Did I write "smallbox"?
I wonder what sort of affliction that is?
In more ways than one, not one that afflicts males of the species.
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
want a free or premium posting account with Teranews?
https://secure.usenetbilling.com/newbilling/manageaccount.cgi?referredby=1089312943&action=Create+New+Account&vendor=teranews
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
22 Jan 2008 11:44:32 PM |
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In article <vhrcp310crpp5d7iu4mtupgq5lfft07rj9@4ax.com>,
Apostate <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:25:26 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:21:54 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <o0h8p3ld7rufsbsc9ju6cpb2c26cjv20g6@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:37:55 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <n406p3lbftb5t8rc7rpil1vjisdfl01g00@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:58:31 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <6022p35lc7gi2mdi60pvo6eko1j189t88g@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe
from
New
World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World
and
the
New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with
religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the
place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great"
civilizations
in
the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing
each
other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive
into
utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic
theologies.
I think that this quote has been attributed to many people in
colonized
lands, but it goes something like this:
When the missionaries came to our land, they brought the bible. They
told us to close our eyes and pray. When we opened them, we had the
bible and they had the land."
You only got that report from the survivors.
Well, those who wouldn't accept the bible had to be 'saved' by
alternative methods.
Blunderbuss, smallbox, and the sword of righteousness!
Or starvation after the pious Xtian invaders stole their food, burned
their crops, forced them off of their land, killed off all their game,
etc.
Did I write "smallbox"?
I wonder what sort of affliction that is?
In more ways than one, not one that afflicts males of the species.
I was going to say the same thing.
--
John #1782
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
04 Feb 2008 08:48:19 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 06:42:22 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:10:15 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <478e0a26$0$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <478d7a79$0$5123$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Perfect Islam <perfectIslam@notreal.org> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <0pdoo3dvc5f85l7ja46ogdthjdrtlu6ro0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
The Old World brought slavery and genocide to the New World and the New
World returned the favor with syphilis.
Yikes! I'm pretty sure slavery and genocide (along with religion)
existed in the Americas before Columbus "discovered" the place.
Maybe,
Well, there's not much maybe about it. All the "great" civilizations in the
Americas practiced slavery, and everybody took turns killing each other.
It was a matter of scale.
but he brought a lot more.
Maybe. Columbus was a downright evil guy, but he didn't arrive into utpoia
by any measure.
It wasn't but the Europeans made it a lot worse.
With their guns, germs, and steel, and their highly toxic theologies.
And vast ignorance.
.
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| User: "Darwin123" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
16 Jan 2008 03:22:26 PM |
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On Jan 14, 11:34 pm, stoney <sto...@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
"What we found is that syphilis or a progenitor came from the New
World to the Old World and this happened pretty recently in human
history," said Harper, whose study appears in journal Public Library
of Science Neglected Tropical Diseases.
Maybe. However, no one claimed that syphilus was the main killer
of Indians after Columbus.
It was small pox, measles, chicken pox, and several other crowd
diseases that did in the Indians. Syphylis in Europe was bad, but it
didn't even come close to the Black Plague in Europe. The black plague
killed at between 30% to 60% of Europeans in some parts of Europe.
Small pox by itself probably killed 90% of the Indians in some parts
of the Americas.
Syphylis is only famous because it lasted a long time in Europe.
It was a major problem until the early twentieth century, which if
wouldn't have been if it had wiped everyone out immediately. It was
almost entirely venereal in the way it spread. There was no change in
lifestyle, other than leaving the cities, that could protect Indians
against smallpox, chicken pox, and measles. It destroyed the highly
civilized (albeit Fascist) culture of the mesoAmerica.
The American Indians developed agriculture and ranching much
later than the Europeans. So they had much less resistance to diseases
related to agriculture and ranching.
And there is a theory that different strains of syphyilis went
both ways. How come syphylis hit people on both sides of the
Atlantic?
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
16 Jan 2008 03:42:08 PM |
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"Darwin123" <drosen0000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1de7aef2-31bc-4390-bc5f-86414a337555@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 14, 11:34 pm, stoney <sto...@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
"What we found is that syphilis or a progenitor came from the New
World to the Old World and this happened pretty recently in human
history," said Harper, whose study appears in journal Public Library
of Science Neglected Tropical Diseases.
Maybe. However, no one claimed that syphilus was the main killer
of Indians after Columbus.
It was small pox, measles, chicken pox, and several other crowd
diseases that did in the Indians. Syphylis in Europe was bad, but it
didn't even come close to the Black Plague in Europe. The black plague
killed at between 30% to 60% of Europeans in some parts of Europe.
Small pox by itself probably killed 90% of the Indians in some parts
of the Americas.
Syphylis is only famous because it lasted a long time in Europe.
It was a major problem until the early twentieth century, which if
wouldn't have been if it had wiped everyone out immediately. It was
almost entirely venereal in the way it spread. There was no change in
lifestyle, other than leaving the cities, that could protect Indians
against smallpox, chicken pox, and measles. It destroyed the highly
civilized (albeit Fascist) culture of the mesoAmerica.
The American Indians developed agriculture and ranching much
later than the Europeans. So they had much less resistance to diseases
related to agriculture and ranching.
And there is a theory that different strains of syphyilis went
both ways. How come syphylis hit people on both sides of the
Atlantic?
Soldiers caught whatever the disease was that
later developed into syphillis from the Indians,
took it home to Europe where it developed into
syphillis (maybe more than one strain), caught
it again in its new form from European wives or
prostitutes and then took the new form back to
the Indians. It takes very little effort to spread
a disease - especially when you don't know that
you have it.
.
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| User: "Darwin123" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
18 Jan 2008 01:43:40 PM |
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On Jan 16, 4:42 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1de7aef2-31bc-4390-bc5f-86414a337555@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
It takes very little effort to spread
a disease - especially when you don't know that
you have it.
The Europeans knew when they had a syphillis epedemic very
soon after Columbus. It didn't have a long latency period as it did in
later centuries. Symptoms showed in a few days, madness and death came
in a few weeks. The progression slowed down rapidly in the next few
decades and centuries. The reason seems to be the evolution of the
syphillis bacterium. Syphillis pretty much has to spread by contact,
and there are no large animal reservoirs for the disease (sex with
sheep having become unpopular). This type of pathogen evolves toward
nonvirulence, as seems to have been the case with syphillis.
This supports your case that syphillis originated in the
Americas. The bacterium wouldn't have been so virulent in Europe if it
had been introduced a short while. It evolved toward slower virulence
(still fatal). By the early twentieth century, the disease had a
progression of several decades leading to madness and death. If it had
originated in Europe before Columbus, it probably would have evolved
to low virulence much earlier.
I read that another possible exception was tuberculosis. The
strain that killed off Indians may have came from the Americas and
passed through Europe back to the Americas. Livestock again.
I acknowledge Mesoamerican Indian agriculture and expansion
really did a number on the other Indian tribes. The Aztecs were evil.
However, most of the other diseases that decimated the Indians
came from Europe, or from Africa by way of European slave trade.
Agriculture diseases like small pox, measles, chicken pox cam from
Europe. Even insect borne diseases like yellow fever and malaria came
from Africa because of the Europeans. All an all, the carnage caused
by European civilization ended up far overshadowing the Aztecs.
Of course, the Aztecs weren't atheists.
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
18 Jan 2008 07:11:01 PM |
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"Darwin123" <drosen0000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:78822978-e2d0-431a-8e91-ea1bf895b80b@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 16, 4:42 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1de7aef2-31bc-4390-bc5f-86414a337555@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
It takes very little effort to spread
a disease - especially when you don't know that
you have it.
The Europeans knew when they had a syphillis epedemic very
soon after Columbus. It didn't have a long latency period as it did in
later centuries. Symptoms showed in a few days, madness and death came
in a few weeks. The progression slowed down rapidly in the next few
decades and centuries. The reason seems to be the evolution of the
syphillis bacterium. Syphillis pretty much has to spread by contact,
and there are no large animal reservoirs for the disease (sex with
sheep having become unpopular). This type of pathogen evolves toward
nonvirulence, as seems to have been the case with syphillis.
This supports your case that syphillis originated in the
Americas. The bacterium wouldn't have been so virulent in Europe if it
had been introduced a short while. It evolved toward slower virulence
(still fatal). By the early twentieth century, the disease had a
progression of several decades leading to madness and death. If it had
originated in Europe before Columbus, it probably would have evolved
to low virulence much earlier.
I read that another possible exception was tuberculosis. The
strain that killed off Indians may have came from the Americas and
passed through Europe back to the Americas. Livestock again.
I acknowledge Mesoamerican Indian agriculture and expansion
really did a number on the other Indian tribes. The Aztecs were evil.
However, most of the other diseases that decimated the Indians
came from Europe, or from Africa by way of European slave trade.
Agriculture diseases like small pox, measles, chicken pox cam from
Europe. Even insect borne diseases like yellow fever and malaria came
from Africa because of the Europeans. All an all, the carnage caused
by European civilization ended up far overshadowing the Aztecs.
Of course, the Aztecs weren't atheists.
Thank you for the information, but what did the last
sentence have to do with anything?
.
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| User: "Darwin123" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
19 Jan 2008 04:11:46 PM |
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On Jan 18, 8:11 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:78822978-e2d0-431a-8e91-ea1bf895b80b@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 16, 4:42 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1de7aef2-31bc-4390-bc5f-86414a337555@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
It takes very little effort to spread
a disease - especially when you don't know that
you have it.
The Europeans knew when they had a syphillis epedemic very
soon after Columbus. It didn't have a long latency period as it did in
later centuries. Symptoms showed in a few days, madness and death came
in a few weeks. The progression slowed down rapidly in the next few
decades and centuries. The reason seems to be the evolution of the
syphillis bacterium. Syphillis pretty much has to spread by contact,
and there are no large animal reservoirs for the disease (sex with
sheep having become unpopular). This type of pathogen evolves toward
nonvirulence, as seems to have been the case with syphillis.
This supports your case that syphillis originated in the
Americas. The bacterium wouldn't have been so virulent in Europe if it
had been introduced a short while. It evolved toward slower virulence
(still fatal). By the early twentieth century, the disease had a
progression of several decades leading to madness and death. If it had
originated in Europe before Columbus, it probably would have evolved
to low virulence much earlier.
I read that another possible exception was tuberculosis. The
strain that killed off Indians may have came from the Americas and
passed through Europe back to the Americas. Livestock again.
I acknowledge Mesoamerican Indian agriculture and expansion
really did a number on the other Indian tribes. The Aztecs were evil.
However, most of the other diseases that decimated the Indians
came from Europe, or from Africa by way of European slave trade.
Agriculture diseases like small pox, measles, chicken pox cam from
Europe. Even insect borne diseases like yellow fever and malaria came
from Africa because of the Europeans. All an all, the carnage caused
by European civilization ended up far overshadowing the Aztecs.
Of course, the Aztecs weren't atheists.
Thank you for the information, but what did the last
sentence have to do with anything?
I don't know. Why is this topic on ALT.ATHEISM in the first
place?
I am not sure. However, I may have assumed that the person who
started this thread was making a back handed apology for European
colonialism, which initially had quasireligious justification.
Otherwise, why would he post anything concerning syphillis coming from
the Indians on a forum having nothing to do with germs or Indians?
The only connection that I could conjecture was: Atheism=Political
Correctness, Political Correctness=ProIndian, QED ProIndian=Atheist.
Therefore, I wanted to point out that one can be This may have been
over defensive on my part. I swear I have argued with people who think
just that way. They seem to think nonsequitors can replace logical
argumentation. So I mentioned Aztecs.
Really, if one posts an off-topic on a forum one should explain
the relevance to that forum. I find nonsequitors insulting. I just
realized that my last line was a nonsequitor and I apologize.
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
19 Jan 2008 10:09:23 PM |
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"Darwin123" <drosen0000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2c82702-e2ca-4967-9e19-b534515cc3b1@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 18, 8:11 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:78822978-e2d0-431a-8e91-ea1bf895b80b@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 16, 4:42 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1de7aef2-31bc-4390-bc5f-86414a337555@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
It takes very little effort to spread
a disease - especially when you don't know that
you have it.
The Europeans knew when they had a syphillis epedemic very
soon after Columbus. It didn't have a long latency period as it did in
later centuries. Symptoms showed in a few days, madness and death came
in a few weeks. The progression slowed down rapidly in the next few
decades and centuries. The reason seems to be the evolution of the
syphillis bacterium. Syphillis pretty much has to spread by contact,
and there are no large animal reservoirs for the disease (sex with
sheep having become unpopular). This type of pathogen evolves toward
nonvirulence, as seems to have been the case with syphillis.
This supports your case that syphillis originated in the
Americas. The bacterium wouldn't have been so virulent in Europe if it
had been introduced a short while. It evolved toward slower virulence
(still fatal). By the early twentieth century, the disease had a
progression of several decades leading to madness and death. If it had
originated in Europe before Columbus, it probably would have evolved
to low virulence much earlier.
I read that another possible exception was tuberculosis. The
strain that killed off Indians may have came from the Americas and
passed through Europe back to the Americas. Livestock again.
I acknowledge Mesoamerican Indian agriculture and expansion
really did a number on the other Indian tribes. The Aztecs were evil.
However, most of the other diseases that decimated the Indians
came from Europe, or from Africa by way of European slave trade.
Agriculture diseases like small pox, measles, chicken pox cam from
Europe. Even insect borne diseases like yellow fever and malaria came
from Africa because of the Europeans. All an all, the carnage caused
by European civilization ended up far overshadowing the Aztecs.
Of course, the Aztecs weren't atheists.
Thank you for the information, but what did the last
sentence have to do with anything?
I don't know. Why is this topic on ALT.ATHEISM in the first
place?
I am not sure. However, I may have assumed that the person who
started this thread was making a back handed apology for European
colonialism, which initially had quasireligious justification.
Otherwise, why would he post anything concerning syphillis coming from
the Indians on a forum having nothing to do with germs or Indians?
The only connection that I could conjecture was: Atheism=Political
Correctness, Political Correctness=ProIndian, QED ProIndian=Atheist.
Therefore, I wanted to point out that one can be This may have been
over defensive on my part. I swear I have argued with people who think
just that way. They seem to think nonsequitors can replace logical
argumentation. So I mentioned Aztecs.
Really, if one posts an off-topic on a forum one should explain
the relevance to that forum. I find nonsequitors insulting. I just
realized that my last line was a nonsequitor and I apologize.
You aren't limited to writing only about atheism in
alt.atheism. Any topic of interest to the atheists in
this newsgroup is allowed. If the topic is really way
off base, you can put an OT (off topic) or Party
Thread (see the FAQ) in front of the message title.
You'll find threads in this newsgroup covering all
kinds of topics - history, politics, music, science,
science fiction and fantasy - you name it. In fact,
the only thing that isn't allowed in alt.atheism is
religious proselytising - and you see how the
Fundamentalist trolls from various religions respect
that rule.
.
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| User: "Darwin123" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
20 Jan 2008 12:37:30 PM |
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On Jan 19, 11:09 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2c82702-e2ca-4967-9e19-b534515cc3b1@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 18, 8:11 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:78822978-e2d0-431a-8e91-ea1bf895b80b@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 16, 4:42 pm, "Michelle Malkin" <hypati...@comcast.net> wrote:
"Darwin123" <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1de7aef2-31bc-4390-bc5f-86414a337555@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
It takes very little effort to spread
a disease - especially when you don't know that
you have it.
The Europeans knew when they had a syphillis epedemic very
soon after Columbus. It didn't have a long latency period as it did in
later centuries. Symptoms showed in a few days, madness and death came
in a few weeks. The progression slowed down rapidly in the next few
decades and centuries. The reason seems to be the evolution of the
syphillis bacterium. Syphillis pretty much has to spread by contact,
and there are no large animal reservoirs for the disease (sex with
sheep having become unpopular). This type of pathogen evolves toward
nonvirulence, as seems to have been the case with syphillis.
This supports your case that syphillis originated in the
Americas. The bacterium wouldn't have been so virulent in Europe if it
had been introduced a short while. It evolved toward slower virulence
(still fatal). By the early twentieth century, the disease had a
progression of several decades leading to madness and death. If it had
originated in Europe before Columbus, it probably would have evolved
to low virulence much earlier.
I read that another possible exception was tuberculosis. The
strain that killed off Indians may have came from the Americas and
passed through Europe back to the Americas. Livestock again.
I acknowledge Mesoamerican Indian agriculture and expansion
really did a number on the other Indian tribes. The Aztecs were evil.
However, most of the other diseases that decimated the Indians
came from Europe, or from Africa by way of European slave trade.
Agriculture diseases like small pox, measles, chicken pox cam from
Europe. Even insect borne diseases like yellow fever and malaria came
from Africa because of the Europeans. All an all, the carnage caused
by European civilization ended up far overshadowing the Aztecs.
Of course, the Aztecs weren't atheists.
Thank you for the information, but what did the last
sentence have to do with anything?
I don't know. Why is this topic on ALT.ATHEISM in the first
place?
I am not sure. However, I may have assumed that the person who
started this thread was making a back handed apology for European
colonialism, which initially had quasireligious justification.
Otherwise, why would he post anything concerning syphillis coming from
the Indians on a forum having nothing to do with germs or Indians?
The only connection that I could conjecture was: Atheism=Political
Correctness, Political Correctness=ProIndian, QED ProIndian=Atheist.
Therefore, I wanted to point out that one can be This may have been
over defensive on my part. I swear I have argued with people who think
just that way. They seem to think nonsequitors can replace logical
argumentation. So I mentioned Aztecs.
Really, if one posts an off-topic on a forum one should explain
the relevance to that forum. I find nonsequitors insulting. I just
realized that my last line was a nonsequitor and I apologize.
You aren't limited to writing only about atheism in
alt.atheism. Any topic of interest to the atheists in
this newsgroup is allowed. If the topic is really way
off base, you can put an OT (off topic) or Party
Thread (see the FAQ) in front of the message title.
You'll find threads in this newsgroup covering all
kinds of topics - history, politics, music, science,
science fiction and fantasy - you name it. In fact,
the only thing that isn't allowed in alt.atheism is
religious proselytising - and you see how the
Fundamentalist trolls from various religions respect
that rule.
I didn't see an OT in front of the subject title, nor on any of
the responses, so I assume that the connection to atheism was pretty
apparent to everybody responding to the thread. My own immediate
(overly emotional?) response was that it was intended as a form of
religious prosletyzing. It doesn't seem to be the sort of topic an
atheist would automatically be interested in, although a lot of people
do find it interesting. So I responded to it as though it was a
religious fundamentalist post.
I am not protesting. The thread can go on. It was obviously
interesting to all participants, so by your criteria it was relevant
to the forum. I am trying to justify my own OT response to his post.
You asked why I said Aztecs weren't atheists. I made the
assumption that Stoney was defending religious colonialism,
specifically Xtian colonialism, claiming religious colonialism had
nothing to do with the diseases afflicting the American Indian. So
with this assumption, I was pointing out that not only did Xtian
colonialism cause misery, but the colonialism associated with the
Aztec religion caused misery. I thought some of the atheists here may
find it amusing.
Atheism is often positioned as antiWestern civilization. Many
atheists love Western secular civilization. It may not be perfect, but
it is in many ways the best of civilizations. Stoney may feel that
defending Western colonialism is the same as attacking atheism. Not
true. In fact, both Xtians and atheists can dislike the worse aspects
of colonialism. All colonialism.
.
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| User: "JohnN" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
16 Jan 2008 08:53:52 AM |
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On Jan 14, 11:34=A0pm, stoney <sto...@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=3D10755
New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
updated 5:47 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2008
CHICAGO - {Reuters} New genetic evidence supports the theory that
Christopher Columbus brought syphilis to Europe from the New World,
All by himself, what a guy!
JohnN
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| User: "Ghod" |
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| Title: Re: New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread |
16 Jan 2008 09:08:12 AM |
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"JohnN" <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:85a29ff9-76ff-4949-b3df-edfbcecab30a@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
: On Jan 14, 11:34 pm, stoney <sto...@the.net> wrote:
: > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22652857/?gt1=10755
: >
: > New study blames Columbus for syphilis spread
: > Genetic evidence shows he may have brought it to Europe from New World
: >
: > updated 5:47 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2008
: >
: > CHICAGO - {Reuters} New genetic evidence supports the theory that
: > Christopher Columbus brought syphilis to Europe from the New World,
:
: All by himself, what a guy!
What ***** he was.
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