| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Michael Gray" |
| Date: |
03 Apr 2007 09:07:42 PM |
| Object: |
News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime
by Globeandmail.com
http://richarddawkins.net/article,830,n,n
Reposted from:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070331.ATHEIST31/TPStory/
Man says he was assaulted at Ryerson
"An atheist group leader says he is the victim of a religious hate
crime.
Freethought Association of Canada president Justin Trottier said he
was assaulted at Ryerson University earlier this week while he and a
colleague were hanging posters for a coming lecture.
"Their motives were clearly premised on the fact that we were atheists
[publicizing] an atheist event and that was seen as unacceptable to
them," Mr. Trottier said in an interview yesterday.
"They mocked the nature of the event."
Mr. Trottier, 24, and his colleague were hanging posters Tuesday night
announcing a lecture by Victor Stenger, author of God: The Failed
Hypothesis, when they were approached by two men. The men asked for a
copy of the poster, mumbled under their breath and tossed it to the
ground. Mr. Trottier said he yelled after them, "You could have
recycled that."
Fifteen minutes later, when Mr. Trottier and his colleague were in a
more secluded area of the university, he said the two men reappeared
and started a verbal argument. One of the men hit him in the face
twice, and butted him on his face, causing his nose to bleed, Mr.
Trottier said.
He said the two men looked like they were in their early 20s. He
didn't know if they attended the university. "If the incident had been
reversed and it had been an atheist that had physically assaulted a
theist for postering for a theist event . . . that would easily be
considered a hate crime -- and it frequently is. This is the exact
reverse scenario," Mr. Trottier said.
"This assault should be taken just as seriously."
Janet Mowat, a spokeswoman for Ryerson, said security has gone through
its files and "they are treating it not as a hate crime, but as a
dispute that arose and led to an altercation."
Toronto police say they are investigating the incident. But Detective
Dave Alexander was also hesitant to call it hate-motivated.
"We don't have anything that suggests that as far as I'm aware of. I
know [Mr. Trottier] was talking about that, but certainly from what I
see it doesn't look like it falls within what our policies and
procedures define as a hate crime," Det. Alexander said. "But we're
still looking at that as well to cover all the bases."
The Freethought Association of Canada grew out of the Toronto Secular
Alliance, and its members include student groups such as the
University of Toronto Secular Alliance and the Freethinker's
Association of Ryerson. It serves as the youth voice for secularists,
playing host to events and engaging in political advocacy."
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 12:28:09 AM |
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In article <d12613t26lk9ab7tb0i950lsgnrq0487vq@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime
by Globeandmail.com
http://richarddawkins.net/article,830,n,n
Reposted from:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070331.ATHEIST31/TPStory/
Man says he was assaulted at Ryerson
"An atheist group leader says he is the victim of a religious hate
crime.
Freethought Association of Canada president Justin Trottier said he
was assaulted at Ryerson University earlier this week while he and a
colleague were hanging posters for a coming lecture.
"Their motives were clearly premised on the fact that we were atheists
[publicizing] an atheist event and that was seen as unacceptable to
them," Mr. Trottier said in an interview yesterday.
"They mocked the nature of the event."
Mr. Trottier, 24, and his colleague were hanging posters Tuesday night
announcing a lecture by Victor Stenger, author of God: The Failed
Hypothesis, when they were approached by two men. The men asked for a
copy of the poster, mumbled under their breath and tossed it to the
ground. Mr. Trottier said he yelled after them, "You could have
recycled that."
Fifteen minutes later, when Mr. Trottier and his colleague were in a
more secluded area of the university, he said the two men reappeared
and started a verbal argument. One of the men hit him in the face
twice, and butted him on his face, causing his nose to bleed, Mr.
Trottier said.
He said the two men looked like they were in their early 20s. He
didn't know if they attended the university. "If the incident had been
reversed and it had been an atheist that had physically assaulted a
theist for postering for a theist event . . . that would easily be
considered a hate crime -- and it frequently is. This is the exact
reverse scenario," Mr. Trottier said.
"This assault should be taken just as seriously."
Janet Mowat, a spokeswoman for Ryerson, said security has gone through
its files and "they are treating it not as a hate crime, but as a
dispute that arose and led to an altercation."
Toronto police say they are investigating the incident. But Detective
Dave Alexander was also hesitant to call it hate-motivated.
"We don't have anything that suggests that as far as I'm aware of. I
know [Mr. Trottier] was talking about that, but certainly from what I
see it doesn't look like it falls within what our policies and
procedures define as a hate crime," Det. Alexander said. "But we're
still looking at that as well to cover all the bases."
If that wasn't a hate crime, what the hell was it?
The Freethought Association of Canada grew out of the Toronto Secular
Alliance, and its members include student groups such as the
University of Toronto Secular Alliance and the Freethinker's
Association of Ryerson. It serves as the youth voice for secularists,
playing host to events and engaging in political advocacy."
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
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| User: "L.Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 08:48:02 AM |
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On Apr 3, 10:07 pm, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime
by Globeandmail.com
http://richarddawkins.net/article,830,n,n
Reposted from:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070331.ATHEIST31/T...
Man says he was assaulted at Ryerson
"An atheist group leader says he is the victim of a religious hate
crime.
Freethought Association of Canada president Justin Trottier said he
was assaulted at Ryerson University earlier this week while he and a
colleague were hanging posters for a coming lecture.
"Their motives were clearly premised on the fact that we were atheists
[publicizing] an atheist event and that was seen as unacceptable to
them," Mr. Trottier said in an interview yesterday.
"They mocked the nature of the event."
Mr. Trottier, 24, and his colleague were hanging posters Tuesday night
announcing a lecture by Victor Stenger, author of God: The Failed
Hypothesis, when they were approached by two men. The men asked for a
copy of the poster, mumbled under their breath and tossed it to the
ground. Mr. Trottier said he yelled after them, "You could have
recycled that."
Fifteen minutes later, when Mr. Trottier and his colleague were in a
more secluded area of the university, he said the two men reappeared
and started a verbal argument. One of the men hit him in the face
twice, and butted him on his face, causing his nose to bleed, Mr.
Trottier said.
He said the two men looked like they were in their early 20s. He
didn't know if they attended the university. "If the incident had been
reversed and it had been an atheist that had physically assaulted a
theist for postering for a theist event . . . that would easily be
considered a hate crime -- and it frequently is. This is the exact
reverse scenario," Mr. Trottier said.
"This assault should be taken just as seriously."
Janet Mowat, a spokeswoman for Ryerson, said security has gone through
its files and "they are treating it not as a hate crime, but as a
dispute that arose and led to an altercation."
Toronto police say they are investigating the incident. But Detective
Dave Alexander was also hesitant to call it hate-motivated.
"We don't have anything that suggests that as far as I'm aware of. I
know [Mr. Trottier] was talking about that, but certainly from what I
see it doesn't look like it falls within what our policies and
procedures define as a hate crime," Det. Alexander said. "But we're
still looking at that as well to cover all the bases."
The Freethought Association of Canada grew out of the Toronto Secular
Alliance, and its members include student groups such as the
University of Toronto Secular Alliance and the Freethinker's
Association of Ryerson. It serves as the youth voice for secularists,
playing host to events and engaging in political advocacy."
Any encounter we have with Christofacists (which is not to say that
all those we might encounter who fancy themselves to be Christians are
Christofacists), has a high potential to become violent, with the
Christofacist as agressor, because, it is true that, as the saying
goes, 'Violence is the only recourse for the incompetent'.
L.Roberts
a.a. # 2258
Atheist
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 05:40:28 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:37:42 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> in news message
<d12613t26lk9ab7tb0i950lsgnrq0487vq@4ax.com> wrote:
[---]
Mr. Trottier, 24, and his colleague were hanging posters Tuesday night
announcing a lecture by Victor Stenger, author of God: The Failed
Hypothesis, when they were approached by two men. The men asked for a
copy of the poster, mumbled under their breath and tossed it to the
ground. Mr. Trottier said he yelled after them, "You could have
recycled that."
Ye gods! Assault AND aggravated littering.
I love Mr. Trottier's line. I must remember that.
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
03 Apr 2007 10:16:04 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:37:42 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
He said the two men looked like they were in their early 20s. He
didn't know if they attended the university. "If the incident had been
reversed and it had been an atheist that had physically assaulted a
theist for postering for a theist event . . . that would easily be
considered a hate crime -- and it frequently is.
Frequently? Try as I might, I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a
single incident of an atheist assaulting a theist for such a thing in
the US, so I'm not sure what the author is referring to. Any takers?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 10:40:01 AM |
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On Apr 3, 11:16 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
Frequently? Try as I might, I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a
single incident of an atheist assaulting a theist for such a thing in
the US, so I'm not sure what the author is referring to. Any takers?
I don't know about that, but I've been in a situation somewhat similar
to our Ryerson friend. About two years ago, near Spadina and Dundas
where I used to teach wing tsun, I hosted a special "Believe in
Yourself" class open to atheists in the community. The advertising
wasn't invasive - flyers were put up in libraries, on the UofT campus/
Robarts library, and in a few local student hang-outs (lots of people
came from the bubble tea places).
We had a fantastic turnout, including several of my regular students.
Four gentlemen arrived shortly after class began, and were handing out
papers outside of the front door. Class ended, and I stood at the door
to say goodbye to those that had attended. As I opened the door, one
of the men pulled me outside and shoved me, telling me that I was what
was wrong with the city.
Assaulting a martial arts teacher, in front of a martial arts studio,
as a number of the instructors senior students stood behind him. Those
Christians aren't exactly bright.
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| User: "tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 01:38:18 PM |
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wrote in news:1175701201.890072.166320
@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
On Apr 3, 11:16 pm, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
Frequently? Try as I might, I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a
single incident of an atheist assaulting a theist for such a thing in
the US, so I'm not sure what the author is referring to. Any takers?
I don't know about that, but I've been in a situation somewhat similar
to our Ryerson friend. About two years ago, near Spadina and Dundas
where I used to teach wing tsun, I hosted a special "Believe in
Yourself" class open to atheists in the community. The advertising
wasn't invasive - flyers were put up in libraries, on the UofT campus/
Robarts library, and in a few local student hang-outs (lots of people
came from the bubble tea places).
We had a fantastic turnout, including several of my regular students.
Four gentlemen arrived shortly after class began, and were handing out
papers outside of the front door. Class ended, and I stood at the door
to say goodbye to those that had attended. As I opened the door, one
of the men pulled me outside and shoved me, telling me that I was what
was wrong with the city.
Assaulting a martial arts teacher, in front of a martial arts studio,
as a number of the instructors senior students stood behind him. Those
Christians aren't exactly bright.
Well, hopefully they got a free demonstration of wing tsun out of the deal.
BTW, I lived in Toronto for several years, and worked in the Exchange
Tower. At least once a week we'd get Dim Sum at the corner of Elizabeth &
Dundas. Boy, I miss that place. Toronto has the best Chinese restaurants.
Better than New York and San Francisco.
--
a.a. #2273
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 01:06:07 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:16:04 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
- Refer: <6v561319ro1nkh8akd7bphg3mchrnghlh5@4ax.com>
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:37:42 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
He said the two men looked like they were in their early 20s. He
didn't know if they attended the university. "If the incident had been
reversed and it had been an atheist that had physically assaulted a
theist for postering for a theist event . . . that would easily be
considered a hate crime -- and it frequently is.
Frequently? Try as I might, I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a
single incident of an atheist assaulting a theist for such a thing in
the US, so I'm not sure what the author is referring to. Any takers?
I read it as "generally considered a hate crime", implying that if the
person being attacked was religious, and pasting a poster advertising
a religious event, and was attacked because of that, it would be
judged to be a hate crime.
It was not confusing to me.
--
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 12:21:57 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:16:04 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:37:42 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
He said the two men looked like they were in their early 20s. He
didn't know if they attended the university. "If the incident had been
reversed and it had been an atheist that had physically assaulted a
theist for postering for a theist event . . . that would easily be
considered a hate crime -- and it frequently is.
Frequently? Try as I might, I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a
single incident of an atheist assaulting a theist for such a thing in
the US, so I'm not sure what the author is referring to. Any takers?
It was in Canada.
But now that you mention it I have personally never read or heard of
an incident anywhere in the free world in which an atheist assaulted a
believer of any type for being a believer.
I have read fairly often of believers of different religions and
believers of the same religion getting into doctrinal disputes and
beating the hell out of one another, sometimes with fatal results.
I guess you just gotta have faith to do such things.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: News: Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime |
04 Apr 2007 08:21:05 AM |
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wrote in news:3am7139p13frp2km0svtfakbm46u5krov4@
4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:16:04 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:37:42 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
He said the two men looked like they were in their early 20s. He
didn't know if they attended the university. "If the incident had
been
reversed and it had been an atheist that had physically assaulted a
theist for postering for a theist event . . . that would easily be
considered a hate crime -- and it frequently is.
Frequently? Try as I might, I'm drawing a blank trying to think of a
single incident of an atheist assaulting a theist for such a thing in
the US, so I'm not sure what the author is referring to. Any takers?
It was in Canada.
But now that you mention it I have personally never read or heard of
an incident anywhere in the free world in which an atheist assaulted a
believer of any type for being a believer.
I have read fairly often of believers of different religions and
believers of the same religion getting into doctrinal disputes and
beating the hell out of one another, sometimes with fatal results.
I guess you just gotta have faith to do such things.
atheist@home#1554
There was a televised example of the theist double standard a few weeks
ago. The Paula Zahn show had a news story about atheists who were
harassed and forced to move out of their homes. It was superficially
somewhat sympathetic to the atheist's plight, but more in a sense of how
sad it was that they choose to cling to being godless, even with the
repercussions. The story didn't really put any blame on the good
christians who harassed the atheists and threatened their families. In
fact, they trotted out the fundie's favorite stat that atheists are the
most mistrusted group in America, and then had a fresh faced fundie
godbot come on and say that atheists bring in on to themselves for being
so radical.
This was followed by the now famous discussion, under the banner of "Why
do atheists inspire such hatred?", where four christians continued to
heap abuse on atheists.
--
a.a. #2273
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