| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mushinronsha" |
| Date: |
31 Aug 2003 07:18:40 PM |
| Object: |
News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) -- Today, the first execution under
Alabama's "Christian Values" judicial interpretation was conducted. Mrs. Betty
Byers was stoned to death by members of the Agape Coalition for Decency. Mrs.
Byers had recently disclosed that she had converted to the Wiccan faith.
Carl Rush, spokesperson for the ACD issued this prepared statement following the
stoning: "We regretfully took the only action that was available to us by the
highest supreme authority, God himself. Our organization can only obey the
commandments given to us by God, through his delegate Moses. God specifically
ordered Mrs. Byers' punishment in Exodus 22:18."
Following the stoning, one of the participants stopped briefly to give his
opinion. "I'd like to thank President Moore and Chief Justice Roberts for their
moral leadership which brought us to this day of glory to the Lord. It's about
damn time that the heathens and foreigners realize that this is a Christian
nation founded on Christian ideals. They better learn real quick that our legal
system isn't about endorsing a religion, but about recognizing the almighty God."
The judicial ruling that allowed today's execution was based on the Supreme
Court interpretation of the first amendment, which states in part, "Congress
shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the
free exercise thereof". Chief Justice Richard Roberts' majority opinion cited
the states rights clause, effectively taking the federal government out of state
judicial decisions on religious matters. In a 7-2 decision, the court decided
that there was no "wall of separation" between church and state, since it is not
specifically mentioned in the constitution. The high court decision effectively
passed the church vs. state decision to the individual states, under the view
that state regulations cannot be overridden if the US Congress is forbidden from
passing laws on religion. The Alabama legislature had previously passed a
resolution leaving religious matters up to the Alabama chapter of the Agape
Coalition for Decency, citing the need for government to stay out of religious
matters. It was under this provision that the ACD took jurisdiction of Mrs.
Byers case.
A handful of protesters congregated outside of the Montgomery Civic Center,
where the stoning took place. "It's not fair!" said demonstrator Calvin
Billups, a self professed Episcopalian. "My church was the first to recognize
fags, so we know the value of tolerance! These damned baptists are going to
screw it up for the rest of us if they keep killing off the sinners!" Father
Patrick Michael McCrory was walking the picket line, along with his 9 year old
godson Corky O'Brien. Father McCrory commented, "We should tolerate the
opinions of our fellow believers, even if they are going to hell. It's not up
to us to send them there prematurely. We should perhaps take a few tithes from
them instead, if you know what I mean. Let's do it for the children." Corky
refused to comment.
There is currently no national Wiccan organization, and no spokespersons were
available for comment. In addition to Mrs. Byers, there were three atheists who
were also executed under the "No freedom from religion" doctrine of the ACD.
**copyright 2018, Future Press International**
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| User: "Crazyalec" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 05:39:32 AM |
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"Mushinronsha" <mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote in message
news:fN6cnVneOYjvDc-iU-KYvg@comcast.com...
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) --
Tel Aviv, Democratic Republic of Palestine. June 30 2018.
21 arab students were killed after a camel bomb (a bomb, hidden in camel's
*****) was exploded at a local college."Jews-for-Jesus" , a local terrorist
group was blamed for an attack.
A small group of 3 million palestinian policemen were sent to local refugee
camp and destroyed houses of suspected terrorists.
Islamabad, People's Republic of Taliban.June 28 2018.
Osama bin Laden, the President of the PRT, had a meeting with American
president Roy Moore , and signed a new agreement on joing forces in a fight
against USAS (United Socialist African States).
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| User: "Nvok" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 02:35:17 PM |
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"Crazyalec" <oleka2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ElF4b.321495$Ho3.46144@sccrnsc03>...
"Mushinronsha" <mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote in message
news:fN6cnVneOYjvDc-iU-KYvg@comcast.com...
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) --
Tel Aviv, Democratic Republic of Palestine. June 30 2018.
21 arab students were killed after a camel bomb (a bomb, hidden in camel's
*****) was exploded at a local college."Jews-for-Jesus" , a local terrorist
group was blamed for an attack.
A small group of 3 million palestinian policemen were sent to local refugee
camp and destroyed houses of suspected terrorists.
Islamabad, People's Republic of Taliban.June 28 2018.
Osama bin Laden, the President of the PRT, had a meeting with American
president Roy Moore , and signed a new agreement on joing forces in a fight
against USAS (United Socialist African States).
I thought atheism was a non-prophet organization...
Sorry. Really, I'm sorry.
Anyway, I think you're right. <aol> me too! </aol>
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| User: "Crazyalec" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 02:29:08 AM |
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(N'vok) wrote in message news:<53f24416.0309011135.68c4cbfb@posting.google.com>...
"Crazyalec" <oleka2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ElF4b.321495$Ho3.46144@sccrnsc03>...
"Mushinronsha" <mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote in message
news:fN6cnVneOYjvDc-iU-KYvg@comcast.com...
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) --
Tel Aviv, Democratic Republic of Palestine. June 30 2018.
21 arab students were killed after a camel bomb (a bomb, hidden in camel's
*****) was exploded at a local college."Jews-for-Jesus" , a local terrorist
group was blamed for an attack.
A small group of 3 million palestinian policemen were sent to local refugee
camp and destroyed houses of suspected terrorists.
Islamabad, People's Republic of Taliban.June 28 2018.
Osama bin Laden, the President of the PRT, had a meeting with American
president Roy Moore , and signed a new agreement on joing forces in a fight
against USAS (United Socialist African States).
I thought atheism was a non-prophet organization...
Sorry. Really, I'm sorry.
Huh?
Anyway, I think you're right. <aol> me too! </aol>
What?
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| User: "Nvok" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 12:31:59 PM |
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(Crazyalec) wrote in message news:<37c9d6cf.0309012329.38dd6018@posting.google.com>...
cairnbaan@tiscali.co.uk (N'vok) wrote in message news:<53f24416.0309011135.68c4cbfb@posting.google.com>...
"Crazyalec" < > wrote in message news:<ElF4b.321495$Ho3.46144@sccrnsc03>...
"Mushinronsha" <mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote in message
news:fN6cnVneOYjvDc-iU-KYvg@comcast.com...
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) --
Tel Aviv, Democratic Republic of Palestine. June 30 2018.
21 arab students were killed after a camel bomb (a bomb, hidden in camel's
*****) was exploded at a local college."Jews-for-Jesus" , a local terrorist
group was blamed for an attack.
A small group of 3 million palestinian policemen were sent to local refugee
camp and destroyed houses of suspected terrorists.
Islamabad, People's Republic of Taliban.June 28 2018.
Osama bin Laden, the President of the PRT, had a meeting with American
president Roy Moore , and signed a new agreement on joing forces in a fight
against USAS (United Socialist African States).
I thought atheism was a non-prophet organization...
Sorry. Really, I'm sorry.
Huh?
You know, everyone making prophecies...
Anyway, I think you're right. <aol> me too! </aol>
What?
Have you never heard the mating call of the user of aol/webtv?
It's a joke.
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| User: "Crazyalec" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 05:47:41 PM |
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(N'vok) wrote in message news:<53f24416.0309020931.54389383@posting.google.com>...
oleka2000@yahoo.com (Crazyalec) wrote in message news:<37c9d6cf.0309012329.38dd6018@posting.google.com>...
(N'vok) wrote in message news:<53f24416.0309011135.68c4cbfb@posting.google.com>...
"Crazyalec" <oleka2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ElF4b.321495$Ho3.46144@sccrnsc03>...
"Mushinronsha" <mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote in message
news:fN6cnVneOYjvDc-iU-KYvg@comcast.com...
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) --
Tel Aviv, Democratic Republic of Palestine. June 30 2018.
21 arab students were killed after a camel bomb (a bomb, hidden in camel's
*****) was exploded at a local college."Jews-for-Jesus" , a local terrorist
group was blamed for an attack.
A small group of 3 million palestinian policemen were sent to local refugee
camp and destroyed houses of suspected terrorists.
Islamabad, People's Republic of Taliban.June 28 2018.
Osama bin Laden, the President of the PRT, had a meeting with American
president Roy Moore , and signed a new agreement on joing forces in a fight
against USAS (United Socialist African States).
I thought atheism was a non-prophet organization...
Sorry. Really, I'm sorry.
Huh?
You know, everyone making prophecies...
What prophecies?
Anyway, I think you're right. <aol> me too! </aol>
What?
Have you never heard the mating call of the user of aol/webtv?
It's a joke.
OK, but what I'm right about?
.
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| User: "AuntieLib" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 07:19:40 PM |
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N'vok wrote:
I thought atheism was a non-prophet organization...
Sorry. Really, I'm sorry.
Huh?
You know, everyone making prophecies...
Anyway, I think you're right. <aol> me too! </aol>
What?
Have you never heard the mating call of the user of aol/webtv?
It's a joke.
Don't mind Crazy, he's alt.atheism's pet. He's humor-impaired. (As
well as information- and intelligence-impaired.) He only has one song
to sing and if you can't at least hum along to the chorus, he gets
confused.
Just pat him on the head and move along, like the rest of us do.
elizabeth
aa#2098
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion
is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also."
Mark Twain
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 01:55:38 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:19:40 -0700, AuntieLib wrote:
Don't mind Crazy, he's alt.atheism's pet.
Well he's not *my pet.
Or at least I am NOT emptying his litter box...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "AuntieLib" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 12:36:44 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Don't mind Crazy, he's alt.atheism's pet.
Well he's not *my pet.
How can you resist? He's soooooo cute! (You're a hard-hearted
*****, that's what you are. Don't you have any compassion for the
disabled? Must be 'cuz you're one a them thar atheists.)
Or at least I am NOT emptying his litter box...
See, that's the beauty of this sort of pet. He spreads his crap
everywhere *but* the litter box. Everybody gets a piece of the
action. (Now, if only we could find a muzzle that fits. I'll get to
work on that...)
elizabeth
aa#2098
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion
is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also."
Mark Twain
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 02:18:27 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:36:44 -0700, AuntieLib wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Don't mind Crazy, he's alt.atheism's pet.
Well he's not *my pet.
How can you resist? He's soooooo cute! (You're a hard-hearted *****,
that's what you are. Don't you have any compassion for the disabled?
Must be 'cuz you're one a them thar atheists.)
It's true, it's all true. When I deconverted, they removed it surgically
so I could be cold and inhuman.
(But I got a *great blender in exchange)
Or at least I am NOT emptying his litter box...
See, that's the beauty of this sort of pet. He spreads his crap
everywhere *but* the litter box. Everybody gets a piece of the action.
(Now, if only we could find a muzzle that fits. I'll get to work on
that...)
Sigh.
And we just put down new carpet in the newsgroup...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Earle Jones" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 06:06:22 PM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.03.19.18.27.226327@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:36:44 -0700, AuntieLib wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Don't mind Crazy, he's alt.atheism's pet.
Well he's not *my pet.
How can you resist? He's soooooo cute! (You're a hard-hearted *****,
that's what you are. Don't you have any compassion for the disabled?
Must be 'cuz you're one a them thar atheists.)
It's true, it's all true. When I deconverted, they removed it surgically
so I could be cold and inhuman.
(But I got a *great blender in exchange)
Or at least I am NOT emptying his litter box...
See, that's the beauty of this sort of pet. He spreads his crap
everywhere *but* the litter box. Everybody gets a piece of the action.
(Now, if only we could find a muzzle that fits. I'll get to work on
that...)
Sigh.
And we just put down new carpet in the newsgroup...
*
New carpet in the newsgroup won't help.
What we need is more chlorine in the gene pool.
earle
*
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 03:52:27 PM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.03.19.18.27.226327@eac.org>, Mark K. Bilbo says...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:36:44 -0700, AuntieLib wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Don't mind Crazy, he's alt.atheism's pet.
Well he's not *my pet.
How can you resist? He's soooooo cute! (You're a hard-hearted *****,
that's what you are. Don't you have any compassion for the disabled?
Must be 'cuz you're one a them thar atheists.)
It's true, it's all true. When I deconverted, they removed it surgically
so I could be cold and inhuman.
(But I got a *great blender in exchange)
Or at least I am NOT emptying his litter box...
See, that's the beauty of this sort of pet. He spreads his crap
everywhere *but* the litter box. Everybody gets a piece of the action.
(Now, if only we could find a muzzle that fits. I'll get to work on
that...)
Sigh.
And we just put down new carpet in the newsgroup...
Well, just don't count on me taking care of his vet bills. I just dished out a
little over $300 on my oldest feline this morning - apparently caught something
from the new kitten. Arrrrgh ;(
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 06:43:54 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:52:27 +0000, Robibnikoff wrote:
In article <pan.2003.09.03.19.18.27.226327@eac.org>, Mark K. Bilbo says...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:36:44 -0700, AuntieLib wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Don't mind Crazy, he's alt.atheism's pet.
Well he's not *my pet.
How can you resist? He's soooooo cute! (You're a hard-hearted
*****, that's what you are. Don't you have any compassion for the
disabled? Must be 'cuz you're one a them thar atheists.)
It's true, it's all true. When I deconverted, they removed it surgically
so I could be cold and inhuman.
(But I got a *great blender in exchange)
Or at least I am NOT emptying his litter box...
See, that's the beauty of this sort of pet. He spreads his crap
everywhere *but* the litter box. Everybody gets a piece of the action.
(Now, if only we could find a muzzle that fits. I'll get to work on
that...)
Sigh.
And we just put down new carpet in the newsgroup...
Well, just don't count on me taking care of his vet bills. I just dished
out a little over $300 on my oldest feline this morning - apparently
caught something from the new kitten. Arrrrgh ;(
And the kitten, like all kids, recovered in five minutes...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Verithrax" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
12 Sep 2003 09:34:38 PM |
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Mushinronsha <mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote in
news:fN6cnVneOYjvDc-iU-KYvg@comcast.com:
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) -- Today, the first execution
(...)
**copyright 2018, Future Press International**
ROFL
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
31 Aug 2003 11:08:08 PM |
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On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:18:40 -0400, Mushinronsha
<mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote:
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) -- Today, the first execution under
Alabama's "Christian Values" judicial interpretation was conducted. Mrs. Betty
Byers was stoned to death by members of the Agape Coalition for Decency. Mrs.
Byers had recently disclosed that she had converted to the Wiccan faith.
<snip>
**copyright 2018, Future Press International**
And now for a report on the latest US casualties in Iraq we go to...
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 08:47:48 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 04:08:08 +0000, satyr wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:18:40 -0400, Mushinronsha
<mushinronsha@bigmailbox.com> wrote:
MONTGOMERY ALABAMA, JUNE 30 2018 (FPI) -- Today, the first execution
under Alabama's "Christian Values" judicial interpretation was conducted.
Mrs. Betty Byers was stoned to death by members of the Agape Coalition
for Decency. Mrs. Byers had recently disclosed that she had converted to
the Wiccan faith.
<snip>
**copyright 2018, Future Press International**
And now for a report on the latest US casualties in Iraq we go to...
Hm... 2018? Make that...
"The Islamic Republic of Iraq today issued a statement..."
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Dan Listermann" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 09:16:30 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.01.13.47.48.178996@eac.org...
Hm... 2018? Make that...
"The Islamic Republic of Iraq today issued a statement..."
--
Even money says that is where this ends up. We will be bitching about Iraq
harboring "terrorists" that will really be there this time.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 10:30:44 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:16:30 -0400, Dan Listermann wrote:
Even money says that is where this ends up. We will be bitching about
Iraq harboring "terrorists" that will really be there this time.
My money is on one of two scenarios...
One is that the Shia get control as we leave because we're *broke (half
trillion per year deficits now... wait until the boomers start to retire).
Two is that we end up reconstituting a Sunni dictatorship and Iraq looks
exactly like it was before the war...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Igtheist" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 05:31:58 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.09.01.15.30.44.330776@eac.org>...
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:16:30 -0400, Dan Listermann wrote:
Even money says that is where this ends up. We will be bitching about
Iraq harboring "terrorists" that will really be there this time.
My money is on one of two scenarios...
One is that the Shia get control as we leave because we're *broke (half
trillion per year deficits now... wait until the boomers start to retire).
Two is that we end up reconstituting a Sunni dictatorship and Iraq looks
exactly like it was before the war...
I vote for number one. We were going broke regardless of whether we
invaded Iraq. This only gets us there faster.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 10:49:49 PM |
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:31:58 -0700, Igtheist wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.09.01.15.30.44.330776@eac.org>...
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:16:30 -0400, Dan Listermann wrote:
Even money says that is where this ends up. We will be bitching about
Iraq harboring "terrorists" that will really be there this time.
My money is on one of two scenarios...
One is that the Shia get control as we leave because we're *broke (half
trillion per year deficits now... wait until the boomers start to
retire).
Two is that we end up reconstituting a Sunni dictatorship and Iraq looks
exactly like it was before the war...
I vote for number one. We were going broke regardless of whether we
invaded Iraq. This only gets us there faster.
Fast as Bush can spend!
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 11:10:28 PM |
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 22:49:49 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:31:58 -0700, Igtheist wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.09.01.15.30.44.330776@eac.org>...
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:16:30 -0400, Dan Listermann wrote:
Even money says that is where this ends up. We will be bitching about
Iraq harboring "terrorists" that will really be there this time.
My money is on one of two scenarios...
One is that the Shia get control as we leave because we're *broke (half
trillion per year deficits now... wait until the boomers start to
retire).
Two is that we end up reconstituting a Sunni dictatorship and Iraq looks
exactly like it was before the war...
I vote for number one. We were going broke regardless of whether we
invaded Iraq. This only gets us there faster.
Fast as Bush can spend!
I love how the conservatives are all saying that we need to control
spending. Hey, I know a little half-trillion dollar expenditure we
didn't have to make.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 09:31:25 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 04:10:28 +0000, satyr wrote:
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 22:49:49 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:31:58 -0700, Igtheist wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.09.01.15.30.44.330776@eac.org>...
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:16:30 -0400, Dan Listermann wrote:
Even money says that is where this ends up. We will be bitching
about Iraq harboring "terrorists" that will really be there this
time.
My money is on one of two scenarios...
One is that the Shia get control as we leave because we're *broke
(half trillion per year deficits now... wait until the boomers start
to retire).
Two is that we end up reconstituting a Sunni dictatorship and Iraq
looks exactly like it was before the war...
I vote for number one. We were going broke regardless of whether we
invaded Iraq. This only gets us there faster.
Fast as Bush can spend!
I love how the conservatives are all saying that we need to control
spending. Hey, I know a little half-trillion dollar expenditure we didn't
have to make.
Seen one of the latest excuses? That we have to prevent libruls from doing
things like national health by running deficits?
I'm still trying to figure out on what planet THAT one makes sense. For
one, deficits don't actually reach out and bite you. We ran deficits for
years and kept spending anyway so I don't see how that's supposed to
"stop" anybody from additional spending (it's not stopping BUSH right now).
For another, stop who? The Republicans who are in charge? They have the
White House and Congress both. Do they mean they have to overspend to stop
themselves from overspending?
Though my favorite part is that it strikes me as trying to stop people in
your household from abusing credit cards by driving yourself into
bankruptcy...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 01:22:09 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote
For another, stop who? The Republicans who are in charge?
They have the White House and Congress both. Do they
mean they have to overspend to stop themselves from
overspending?
That's what Reagan did for 8 years. He sent us out of overspending.
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| User: "TCS" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 09:58:21 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:31:25 -0500, Mark K. Bilbo <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out on what planet THAT one makes sense. For
one, deficits don't actually reach out and bite you. We ran deficits for
years and kept spending anyway so I don't see how that's supposed to
"stop" anybody from additional spending (it's not stopping BUSH right now).
It is biteing us now. Over 25% of the budget is being spent on
interest. At the rate we're going, it won't be long till the whole
damn budget is for interest.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 06:30:10 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:58:21 +0000, TCS wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:31:25 -0500, Mark K. Bilbo <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>
wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out on what planet THAT one makes sense. For
one, deficits don't actually reach out and bite you. We ran deficits for
years and kept spending anyway so I don't see how that's supposed to
"stop" anybody from additional spending (it's not stopping BUSH right
now).
It is biteing us now. Over 25% of the budget is being spent on interest.
At the rate we're going, it won't be long till the whole damn budget is
for interest.
It's still not the kind of "bite" we'll get should interest rates rise
significantly.
Can you imagine how much it would cost to service a $7 trillion (and
rising) debt if we, oh, went back to the interest rates of the '80s?
Browsing about, I ran into a reference to bonds paying 13 and change in
the early '80s. Now I know I'm simplifying outrageously here but $7
trillion at 13% is... uh oh.
While I was wandering about trying to make sense out of the debt--which
isn't easy--I ran into some Free Marketeers explaining how the government
competing for credit doesn't affect interest rates.
Erm... huh?
Oh well.
Speaking of the mysteries of the debt, we appear to only owe us $3.5
trillion so far. The *other half is some weird looking thing that appears
to be the government loaning money to itself.
Can somebody explain THAT to me? "Intra-agency" I believe it was called.
Somehow us loaning us money isn't money we owe us (as it's not called
"public debt").
And the government--all of it--gets its income from the same Treasury. How
does this other stuff work? Is that like me borrowing money from me and
promising to pay me back with interest?
(Good thing I'm sitting down when reading this stuff)
Anywho...
The *best part is the stuff they just don't call "debt." Even though we're
obligated to pay it (it's a non-debt kind of debt?).
Last I saw, it was about 17 trillion.
Now it's not "borrowed" and we don't have to pay interest on it. But we've
obligated ourselves to paying it.
Near as I can figure right now, we're a good $24 trillion in the red.
Which just makes my head spin...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 11:25:24 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:30:10 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
Browsing about, I ran into a reference to bonds paying 13 and change in
the early '80s. Now I know I'm simplifying outrageously here but $7
trillion at 13% is... uh oh.
I remember back in the early '80s I had a money market account that
paid 18% interest for a few weeks.
Speaking of the mysteries of the debt, we appear to only owe us $3.5
trillion so far. The *other half is some weird looking thing that appears
to be the government loaning money to itself.
Can somebody explain THAT to me? "Intra-agency" I believe it was called.
Somehow us loaning us money isn't money we owe us (as it's not called
"public debt").
Oh me me me I got this one. That Inter-agency loan is from the Social
Security fund. You know, that money you get to collect when you are
65... I mean 66... maybe 67 years old. Right now the baby boomers are
paying in for our retirement more than current retirees are taking
out. The excess cash is immediately grabbed by the Treasury and SS
gets an IOU. When the boomers retire there will be a net outflow of
cash from the fund. That means that not only will the Treasury not be
able to borrow cheap money from the SS, the Treasury will have to
borrow money from some one else to pay back the money that it already
owes us.
Now that you know this, listen to the plaintive wail that we need to
"save SS." We need to increase SS taxes, reduce benefits, raise the
retirement age. This will forestall the disaster. Only
coincidentally will it also forestall the government having to pay us
our money. I once read that the dire predictions for SS were based on
the assumption of a pathetic growth rate in the economy. Assume even
a modest growth rate, the system is solvent for as far as the eye can
see.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 11:55:17 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 04:25:24 +0000, satyr wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:30:10 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>
wrote:
Browsing about, I ran into a reference to bonds paying 13 and change in
the early '80s. Now I know I'm simplifying outrageously here but $7
trillion at 13% is... uh oh.
I remember back in the early '80s I had a money market account that paid
18% interest for a few weeks.
Speaking of the mysteries of the debt, we appear to only owe us $3.5
trillion so far. The *other half is some weird looking thing that appears
to be the government loaning money to itself.
Can somebody explain THAT to me? "Intra-agency" I believe it was called.
Somehow us loaning us money isn't money we owe us (as it's not called
"public debt").
Oh me me me I got this one. That Inter-agency loan is from the Social
Security fund. You know, that money you get to collect when you are 65...
I mean 66... maybe 67 years old. Right now the baby boomers are paying in
for our retirement more than current retirees are taking out. The excess
cash is immediately grabbed by the Treasury and SS gets an IOU. When the
boomers retire there will be a net outflow of cash from the fund. That
means that not only will the Treasury not be able to borrow cheap money
from the SS, the Treasury will have to borrow money from some one else to
pay back the money that it already owes us.
Now that you know this, listen to the plaintive wail that we need to "save
SS." We need to increase SS taxes, reduce benefits, raise the retirement
age. This will forestall the disaster. Only coincidentally will it also
forestall the government having to pay us our money. I once read that the
dire predictions for SS were based on the assumption of a pathetic growth
rate in the economy. Assume even a modest growth rate, the system is
solvent for as far as the eye can see.
Ah. So that "safe" retirement thing is being raided is it?
Now why don't that surprise me?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Igtheist" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
03 Sep 2003 07:01:33 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.09.03.04.55.16.614184@eac.org>...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 04:25:24 +0000, satyr wrote:
Ah. So that "safe" retirement thing is being raided is it?
Now why don't that surprise me?
Raided? Why use the present tense. Social Security has always been
used as a source for federal spending by both Democrats and
Republicans. It's assets are always represented as inter-agency
debt. Did you actually think they have been investing it in something
productive? There is no lock box and there is no trust fund.
Also I think your estimate of $24 trillion is a little low.
According to the treasury if you include entitlements over the next 75
years it's a whopping $44 trillion in todays dollars. Don't forget
all the corporate and presonal debt also. Which is so large in part
because interest rates have been held way too low for way to long.
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| User: "TCS" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
02 Sep 2003 07:48:53 AM |
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 04:10:28 GMT, satyr <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote:
I love how the conservatives are all saying that we need to control
spending. Hey, I know a little half-trillion dollar expenditure we
didn't have to make.
They're all for spending that makes them rich as well as tax cuts that do the
same.
They despise spending that is done in a fiscially responsible way -- that is
spending that is paid for without borrowing money.
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| User: "MarcRW" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 12:08:32 PM |
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Hash: SHA1
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.01.15.30.44.330776@eac.org...
Two is that we end up reconstituting a Sunni dictatorship and Iraq looks
exactly like it was before the war...
No, there will be different pictures on every wall of some other ugly
*****.
Marc
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: News From The Future - Talabama Justice |
01 Sep 2003 10:51:41 PM |
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:08:32 -0700, MarcRW wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.01.15.30.44.330776@eac.org...
Two is that we end up reconstituting a Sunni dictatorship and Iraq looks
exactly like it was before the war...
No, there will be different pictures on every wall of some other ugly
*****.
Yeah but he'll have the same funny kinda mustache...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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