| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Khubla" |
| Date: |
29 Sep 2006 05:42:56 PM |
| Object: |
No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people who
fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy on
these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the region to
clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day fighting in
Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't have a
workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on and on.
Bush and his band must go!!!
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 08:46:24 AM |
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"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy on these people is absurd,
....and it was never the plan, moron. Geeez, you people are dumb. The USA
doesn't foster, encourage or impose democracy, 'Jeffersonian' or not. What
the USA wants is dependent 'client states' with as little democracy as
possible, and leaders who do what Uncle Sam tells them to. Why the hell do
you think *Saddam* was an *ally* for so many years, huh...??
M.
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| User: "Mike" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 09:24:14 AM |
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Mark D J. wrote:
"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy on these people is absurd,
...and it was never the plan, moron. Geeez, you people are dumb. The USA
doesn't foster, encourage or impose democracy, 'Jeffersonian' or not. What
the USA wants is dependent 'client states' with as little democracy as
possible, and leaders who do what Uncle Sam tells them to. Why the hell do
you think *Saddam* was an *ally* for so many years, huh...??
M.
Rumsfeld used to occasionally make an strained analogy between Iraq and
between Japan and Germany after WWII. He would argue "if we could make
democracies out of the two worst dictatorships in the world we can do
it with Iraq". The difference is that Germany and Japan were
reasonably united countries with a sense of national destiny. Iraq is
a quarrel within borders and has been for a few thousand years. They
will probably get "democracy" the way Yugoslavia got democracy under
Milosevic.
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
01 Oct 2006 12:19:11 AM |
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...and it was never the plan, moron. Geeez, you people are dumb. The USA
doesn't foster, encourage or impose democracy, 'Jeffersonian' or not.
What
the USA wants is dependent 'client states' with as little democracy as
possible, and leaders who do what Uncle Sam tells them to. Why the hell
do
you think *Saddam* was an *ally* for so many years, huh...??
Rumsfeld used to occasionally make an strained analogy between Iraq and
between Japan and Germany after WWII. He would argue "if we could make
democracies out of the two worst dictatorships in the world we can do
it with Iraq". The difference is that Germany and Japan were
reasonably united countries with a sense of national destiny.
More to the point, Germany had a perfectly adequate tradition of democracy
before Hitler took over, and post-war Japan wasn't set up to be a 'shining
example of democracy': it was set up to be *weak* and *uncompetitive* (and
look at how well that ploy succeeded!).
Iraq is
a quarrel within borders and has been for a few thousand years. They
will probably get "democracy" the way Yugoslavia got democracy under
Milosevic.
Iraq is a made-up pseudo-state created less than 100 years ago, located
within arbitrary borders fabricated by an imperial power. So, in fact, were
the various Balkan states. States are set up in this way to make them
inimical to democratic government, and thus to spare the 'great powers' the
inconvenience of dealing with the 'unpredictable' fall-out from unified
nations whose governments 'represent the people's wishes'. A divided
population can only be governed by a 'hard man' -- and when such a hard man
comes along (or is supplied), he will become the West's client. Easy.
M.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
29 Sep 2006 06:30:20 PM |
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"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people
who fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy
on these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the
region to clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day
fighting in Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't
have a workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on
and on. Bush and his band must go!!!
It's a lot of money, but not 2 billion a day. And you said "these people".
You are a racist. Of course the idea that the U.S.A., -- which you refer to
as "we", so I assume you are partly responsible for those misguided
policies-- can bring democracy by military action, is ridiculous.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
29 Sep 2006 07:12:25 PM |
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ike milligan wrote:
"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people
who fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy
on these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the
region to clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day
fighting in Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't
have a workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on
and on. Bush and his band must go!!!
It's a lot of money, but not 2 billion a day. And you said "these people".
You are a racist.
*****. Using the phrase "these people" does not make you a racist.
I'm sick of people getting called racist for specifying a demographic,
even when the demographic is not strictly by race. "These people" here
referred to the Iraqi people. Just because they're primarily Arab does
not make the speaker anti-Arab. Besides, he never made any implication
about their inferiority or incapability; he simply pointed out that the
US is wasting money on an impossible task.
Of course the idea that the U.S.A., -- which you refer to
as "we", so I assume you are partly responsible for those misguided
policies-- can bring democracy by military action, is ridiculous.
.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 12:47:11 AM |
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"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159557144.968703.47400@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
ike milligan wrote:
"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people
who fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian
democracy
on these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the
region to clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day
fighting in Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we
don't
have a workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and
on
and on. Bush and his band must go!!!
It's a lot of money, but not 2 billion a day. And you said "these
people".
You are a racist.
*****. Using the phrase "these people" does not make you a racist.
I'm sick of people getting called racist for specifying a demographic,
even when the demographic is not strictly by race. "These people" here
referred to the Iraqi people. Just because they're primarily Arab does
not make the speaker anti-Arab. Besides, he never made any implication
about their inferiority or incapability; he simply pointed out that the
US is wasting money on an impossible task.
He said in the subject line no Iraqi is worth and American life, then in the
post he implied "these people" are unfit for democracy.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 12:52:06 AM |
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ike milligan wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159557144.968703.47400@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
ike milligan wrote:
"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people
who fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian
democracy
on these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the
region to clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day
fighting in Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we
don't
have a workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and
on
and on. Bush and his band must go!!!
It's a lot of money, but not 2 billion a day. And you said "these
people".
You are a racist.
*****. Using the phrase "these people" does not make you a racist.
I'm sick of people getting called racist for specifying a demographic,
even when the demographic is not strictly by race. "These people" here
referred to the Iraqi people. Just because they're primarily Arab does
not make the speaker anti-Arab. Besides, he never made any implication
about their inferiority or incapability; he simply pointed out that the
US is wasting money on an impossible task.
He said in the subject line no Iraqi is worth and American life,
Okay, somehow I missed that. (I open four or five threads at once, so I
forget subject lines quick.)
then in the
post he implied "these people" are unfit for democracy.
I suppose it could be read that way. When I read it, I read it as
"imposing democracy on an unwilling population is absurd".
Anyway, sorry about the overreaction.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 02:17:34 AM |
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"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1159577526.058587.14870@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
ike milligan wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159557144.968703.47400@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
ike milligan wrote:
"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other
countries/people who fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing
a Jeffersonian democracy
on these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time
in the region to clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion
dollars a day fighting in Iraq while our country's
infrastructure is crumbling, we don't
have a workable or affordable health cars system for our
citizens, and on
and on. Bush and his band must go!!!
It's a lot of money, but not 2 billion a day. And you said "these
people".
You are a racist.
*****. Using the phrase "these people" does not make you a
racist. I'm sick of people getting called racist for specifying a
demographic, even when the demographic is not strictly by race.
"These people" here referred to the Iraqi people. Just because
they're primarily Arab does not make the speaker anti-Arab.
Besides, he never made any implication about their inferiority or
incapability; he simply pointed out that the US is wasting money on
an impossible task.
He said in the subject line no Iraqi is worth and American life,
Okay, somehow I missed that. (I open four or five threads at once, so
I forget subject lines quick.)
then in the
post he implied "these people" are unfit for democracy.
I suppose it could be read that way. When I read it, I read it as
"imposing democracy on an unwilling population is absurd".
Anyway, sorry about the overreaction.
I wonder how one goes about determining if a population is unwilling.
Take a vote? :-)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Some days the impatience with Iraq just seems artificial — as though
the real argument is about something else entirely." - Dinocrat
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 04:22:36 AM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1159577526.058587.14870@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
ike milligan wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159557144.968703.47400@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
ike milligan wrote:
"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other
countries/people who fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing
a Jeffersonian democracy
on these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time
in the region to clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion
dollars a day fighting in Iraq while our country's
infrastructure is crumbling, we don't
have a workable or affordable health cars system for our
citizens, and on
and on. Bush and his band must go!!!
It's a lot of money, but not 2 billion a day. And you said "these
people".
You are a racist.
*****. Using the phrase "these people" does not make you a
racist. I'm sick of people getting called racist for specifying a
demographic, even when the demographic is not strictly by race.
"These people" here referred to the Iraqi people. Just because
they're primarily Arab does not make the speaker anti-Arab.
Besides, he never made any implication about their inferiority or
incapability; he simply pointed out that the US is wasting money on
an impossible task.
He said in the subject line no Iraqi is worth and American life,
Okay, somehow I missed that. (I open four or five threads at once, so
I forget subject lines quick.)
then in the
post he implied "these people" are unfit for democracy.
I suppose it could be read that way. When I read it, I read it as
"imposing democracy on an unwilling population is absurd".
Anyway, sorry about the overreaction.
I wonder how one goes about determining if a population is unwilling.
Take a vote? :-)
I believe it was Fareed Zakaria that made the case that Iraq would,
given the opportunity, immediately vote in a restrictive Islamist
regime. That democracy follows liberty and comes via a popular
revolution rather than a foreign imposition.
But your point is taken.
.
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| User: "Emmanual Kann" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
04 Oct 2006 07:16:39 PM |
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An Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:22:36 -0700, Chris Johnson schreibt:
Fred Stone wrote:
I wonder how one goes about determining if a population is unwilling.
Take a vote? :-)
Fred, before enactment of the Enabling Act, in 1932 the NAZI party was
in the minority of the Reichstag (1/3 with 37% of the popular vote).
After the 1933 election (44% of the votes), the Nazis used fear of
terrorism to grant the chancellor the power to declare the Communist Party
and the Socialist Party as terrorist organizations. He then went on to
arrest or kill all the Communist terrorists and thousands of Socialist
terrorist. With the 81 Communist members of the Reichstag missing only 94
Socialists voted against the Enabling Act (presumably the other 26 were
either dead or in prison). After the Enabling Act was made law, the Reichstag
continued to exist until 1942 as a body of acclimation for actions of "our
leader".
I'm not using this example to compare Bush with Hitler or the Republicans
with the Nazis. I am using it to draw the similarity between the recently
passed torture act with the enabling act. The Republicans are not
Nazis; the Republicans are clearly in a majority. Bush has not sent any
Democratic senators or congressmen to Guantanamo yet. However, it is clear
that the recently signed law gives the President such power.
I believe it was Fareed Zakaria that made the case that Iraq would,
given the opportunity, immediately vote in a restrictive Islamist
regime. That democracy follows liberty and comes via a popular
revolution rather than a foreign imposition.
Authoritarian followers choose authoritarian leaders. Fred is evidence
consistent with that hypothesis.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
06 Oct 2006 05:03:14 PM |
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"Emmanual Kann" <nicht@keinspam.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.10.04.19.16.38.542993@keinspam.invalid...
An Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:22:36 -0700, Chris Johnson schreibt:
Fred Stone wrote:
I wonder how one goes about determining if a population is unwilling.
Take a vote? :-)
Fred, before enactment of the Enabling Act, in 1932 the NAZI party was
in the minority of the Reichstag (1/3 with 37% of the popular vote).
After the 1933 election (44% of the votes), the Nazis used fear of
terrorism to grant the chancellor the power to declare the Communist Party
and the Socialist Party as terrorist organizations. He then went on to
arrest or kill all the Communist terrorists and thousands of Socialist
terrorist. With the 81 Communist members of the Reichstag missing only 94
Socialists voted against the Enabling Act (presumably the other 26 were
either dead or in prison). After the Enabling Act was made law, the
Reichstag
continued to exist until 1942 as a body of acclimation for actions of "our
leader".
I'm not using this example to compare Bush with Hitler or the Republicans
with the Nazis. I am using it to draw the similarity between the recently
passed torture act with the enabling act. The Republicans are not
Nazis; the Republicans are clearly in a majority. Bush has not sent any
Democratic senators or congressmen to Guantanamo yet. However, it is clear
that the recently signed law gives the President such power.
At the time of Hitler's rise, before the War, The NAZIs resembled the
Republicans, but not necessarily in hindsight. In other words, who would
have thought that Hitler would overrun Europe, be defeated and try to kill
all the "non-Aryans", at the time he came to power? In fact, who would have
voted for him at all? Also it is not clear to me that the Republicans are
the majority, even among registered voters. And ask yourself the majority of
whom? There are amny who never registered to vote, who are citizens and the
majority of them are not Republicans. There are also many who should be
granted the right to vote, but who are deemed non-citizens, but are here
doing work to make the fat-cats richer, (and even pay taxes), who are not
Republicans.
Now suppose that Mexico had a revolution, and many of the Hispanics in the
U.S. were considered a potential threat, bith racially as now, and
politically as then, and suppose I then went around making speeches and/or
writing articles saying that The USA, Mexico, and Canada were de facto one
country, etc., and that the Movement followers, some of whom would
inevitably be considered dangerous and labeled terrorists. Don't younjust
imagine that I would be arrested and held as an "Enemy Combatant" without
recourse to habeas corpus? So a law that does one thing today, may be used
another way tomorrow, and there are already many examples of that.
A lot of sports stadiums have been built with taxpayer money, which have
more than one potential use. Think about it.
I believe it was Fareed Zakaria that made the case that Iraq would,
given the opportunity, immediately vote in a restrictive Islamist
regime. That democracy follows liberty and comes via a popular
revolution rather than a foreign imposition.
Authoritarian followers choose authoritarian leaders. Fred is evidence
consistent with that hypothesis.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
04 Oct 2006 10:55:47 PM |
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Emmanual Kann <nicht@keinspam.invalid> wrote in
news:pan.2006.10.04.19.16.38.542993@keinspam.invalid:
An Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:22:36 -0700, Chris Johnson schreibt:
Fred Stone wrote:
I wonder how one goes about determining if a population is
unwilling. Take a vote? :-)
Fred, before enactment of the Enabling Act, in 1932 the NAZI party was
in the minority of the Reichstag (1/3 with 37% of the popular vote).
After the 1933 election (44% of the votes), the Nazis used fear of
terrorism to grant the chancellor the power to declare the Communist
Party and the Socialist Party as terrorist organizations. He then
went on to arrest or kill all the Communist terrorists and thousands
of Socialist terrorist. With the 81 Communist members of the Reichstag
missing only 94 Socialists voted against the Enabling Act (presumably
the other 26 were either dead or in prison). After the Enabling Act
was made law, the Reichstag continued to exist until 1942 as a body of
acclimation for actions of "our leader".
Which has what exactly to do with anything relevant?
I'm not using this example to compare Bush with Hitler or the
Republicans with the Nazis. I am using it to draw the similarity
between the recently passed torture act with the enabling act.
It does not enable torture. Quite the contrary, evidence gathered
through the use of torture is excluded. I suppose you think you're being
very profound in launching off on this series of unsupported claims.
The
Republicans are not Nazis; the Republicans are clearly in a majority.
Bush has not sent any Democratic senators or congressmen to Guantanamo
yet. However, it is clear that the recently signed law gives the
President such power.
In fact it does no such thing. The recently signed law deals with the
procedures by which the military detainees can be tried for war crimes.
That is *all* it does.
I believe it was Fareed Zakaria that made the case that Iraq would,
given the opportunity, immediately vote in a restrictive Islamist
regime. That democracy follows liberty and comes via a popular
revolution rather than a foreign imposition.
Authoritarian followers choose authoritarian leaders. Fred is
evidence consistent with that hypothesis.
Actually, I think it's *you* who are the evidence consistent with the
utter delusional nature of the opposition to the Bush administration.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Some days the impatience with Iraq just seems artificial — as though
the real argument is about something else entirely." - Dinocrat
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
05 Oct 2006 03:35:56 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:16:39 GMT, Emmanual Kann <nicht@keinspam.invalid>
wrote in alt.atheism
An Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:22:36 -0700, Chris Johnson schreibt:
Fred Stone wrote:
I wonder how one goes about determining if a population is unwilling.
Take a vote? :-)
Fred, before enactment of the Enabling Act, in 1932 the NAZI party was
in the minority of the Reichstag (1/3 with 37% of the popular vote).
After the 1933 election (44% of the votes), the Nazis used fear of
terrorism to grant the chancellor the power to declare the Communist Party
and the Socialist Party as terrorist organizations. He then went on to
arrest or kill all the Communist terrorists and thousands of Socialist
terrorist. With the 81 Communist members of the Reichstag missing only 94
Socialists voted against the Enabling Act (presumably the other 26 were
either dead or in prison). After the Enabling Act was made law, the Reichstag
continued to exist until 1942 as a body of acclimation for actions of "our
leader".
I'm not using this example to compare Bush with Hitler or the Republicans
with the Nazis. I am using it to draw the similarity between the recently
passed torture act with the enabling act. The Republicans are not
Nazis; the Republicans are clearly in a majority. Bush has not sent any
Democratic senators or congressmen to Guantanamo yet. However, it is clear
that the recently signed law gives the President such power.
Don't forget Tom DeLay sent the Texas Rangers to arrest all the
Democratic Congressmen because they didn't show up to make a quorum
which would allow his railroading redistricting plan to go through.
The Democrats were all out of state and, thus, beyond the Rangers'
jurisdiction.
I believe it was Fareed Zakaria that made the case that Iraq would,
given the opportunity, immediately vote in a restrictive Islamist
regime. That democracy follows liberty and comes via a popular
revolution rather than a foreign imposition.
Authoritarian followers choose authoritarian leaders. Fred is evidence
consistent with that hypothesis.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 10:14:55 AM |
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On 29 Sep 2006 21:22:36 -0700, "Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com>
wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1159577526.058587.14870@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
ike milligan wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159557144.968703.47400@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
ike milligan wrote:
"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AWcTg.9$6S2.1@trndny02...
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other
countries/people who fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing
a Jeffersonian democracy
on these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time
in the region to clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion
dollars a day fighting in Iraq while our country's
infrastructure is crumbling, we don't
have a workable or affordable health cars system for our
citizens, and on
and on. Bush and his band must go!!!
It's a lot of money, but not 2 billion a day. And you said "these
people".
You are a racist.
*****. Using the phrase "these people" does not make you a
racist. I'm sick of people getting called racist for specifying a
demographic, even when the demographic is not strictly by race.
"These people" here referred to the Iraqi people. Just because
they're primarily Arab does not make the speaker anti-Arab.
Besides, he never made any implication about their inferiority or
incapability; he simply pointed out that the US is wasting money on
an impossible task.
He said in the subject line no Iraqi is worth and American life,
Okay, somehow I missed that. (I open four or five threads at once, so
I forget subject lines quick.)
then in the
post he implied "these people" are unfit for democracy.
I suppose it could be read that way. When I read it, I read it as
"imposing democracy on an unwilling population is absurd".
Anyway, sorry about the overreaction.
I wonder how one goes about determining if a population is unwilling.
Take a vote? :-)
I believe it was Fareed Zakaria that made the case that Iraq would,
given the opportunity, immediately vote in a restrictive Islamist
regime. That democracy follows liberty and comes via a popular
revolution rather than a foreign imposition.
But your point is taken.
It's only democracy if it produces the result we want, not the one
they want.
In the 1980s Algeria was encouraged by the West to cancel elections
because it looked as though there would be a democratically elected
Islamic government.
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 09:19:50 AM |
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"Khubla" <khubla@verizon.net> wrote in message news:AWcTg.9$
We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day fighting in Iraq while our
country's infrastructure is crumbling,
http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182
M.
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
29 Sep 2006 05:58:32 PM |
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Khubla wrote:
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people who
fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy on
these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the region to
clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day fighting in
Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't have a
workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on and on.
Bush and his band must go!!!
If we want to do anything about the middle east, we have to change the
mentality of the people first. Show them that democracy and freedom are
something worth having. Then they will establish it on thier own,
without our help. As it is, we are telling them that we will 'give them
democracy', and then we start killing them by the thousands. What are
they supposed to think that democracy means?
.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
29 Sep 2006 06:40:24 PM |
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"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159552712.068012.275060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Khubla wrote:
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people
who
fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy on
these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the region
to
clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day fighting in
Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't have a
workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on and
on.
Bush and his band must go!!!
If we want to do anything about the middle east, we have to change the
mentality of the people first. Show them that democracy and freedom are
something worth having. Then they will establish it on thier own,
without our help. As it is, we are telling them that we will 'give them
democracy', and then we start killing them by the thousands. What are
they supposed to think that democracy means?
They know very well what democracy means. Only they understand that the
U.S.Army doesn't represent it.
.
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
29 Sep 2006 08:39:56 PM |
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ike milligan wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159552712.068012.275060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Khubla wrote:
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people
who
fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy on
these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the region
to
clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day fighting in
Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't have a
workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on and
on.
Bush and his band must go!!!
If we want to do anything about the middle east, we have to change the
mentality of the people first. Show them that democracy and freedom are
something worth having. Then they will establish it on thier own,
without our help. As it is, we are telling them that we will 'give them
democracy', and then we start killing them by the thousands. What are
they supposed to think that democracy means?
They know very well what democracy means. Only they understand that the
U.S.Army doesn't represent it.
Are you sure they know what it means? Maybe in some countries they do
where they have occasionally had it in the past. But for people who
have lived thier entire lives under totalitarian theocracies, they may
be completely unfamiliar with the concept.
.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
|
| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 12:47:10 AM |
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"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159562396.718583.238370@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
ike milligan wrote:
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159552712.068012.275060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Khubla wrote:
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other
countries/people
who
fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy
on
these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the
region
to
clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day fighting
in
Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't have a
workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on and
on.
Bush and his band must go!!!
If we want to do anything about the middle east, we have to change the
mentality of the people first. Show them that democracy and freedom are
something worth having. Then they will establish it on thier own,
without our help. As it is, we are telling them that we will 'give them
democracy', and then we start killing them by the thousands. What are
they supposed to think that democracy means?
They know very well what democracy means. Only they understand that the
U.S.Army doesn't represent it.
Are you sure they know what it means? Maybe in some countries they do
where they have occasionally had it in the past. But for people who
have lived thier entire lives under totalitarian theocracies, they may
be completely unfamiliar with the concept.
They are not stupid. They know it means self-government, as opposed to enemy
occupation or dictatorship.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: No Iraqi is worth an American's life. |
30 Sep 2006 03:06:14 AM |
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On 29 Sep 2006 10:58:32 -0700, "Conspiracy of Doves"
<mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1159552712.068012.275060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Khubla wrote:
This is the bottom line, and I can think of many other countries/people who
fit the same analyst. The idea of imposing a Jeffersonian democracy on
these people is absurd, and one only has to spend some time in the region to
clearly see this. We are squandering 2 Billion dollars a day fighting in
Iraq while our country's infrastructure is crumbling, we don't have a
workable or affordable health cars system for our citizens, and on and on.
Bush and his band must go!!!
If we want to do anything about the middle east, we have to change the
mentality of the people first. Show them that democracy and freedom are
something worth having. Then they will establish it on thier own,
without our help. As it is, we are telling them that we will 'give them
democracy', and then we start killing them by the thousands. What are
they supposed to think that democracy means?
Diebold.
.
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