| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Love a Sheep" |
| Date: |
03 Apr 2005 10:14:16 PM |
| Object: |
No Pope of Rome |
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
.
|
|
| User: "bam" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 02:36:38 AM |
|
|
"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.'
How would you know? Was everything Jesus said or did recorded somewhere?
BAM
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Carlque" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 03:00:50 PM |
|
|
"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth
So how did you come into being? Did your mom do it by herself?
Carlque
for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
03 Apr 2005 10:46:12 PM |
|
|
"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
| and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
| the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
| diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
| for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
| no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
| heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
|
|
| There we have it in black and white.
Yup, we do:
"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the
gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys
of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it
shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it
shall be loosed also in heaven."
.
|
|
|
| User: "BubbaGump" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 02:14:37 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:46:12 -0400, "Stephen" <net@net.net> wrote:
"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
| and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
| the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
| diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
| for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
| no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
| heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
|
|
| There we have it in black and white.
Yup, we do:
"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the
gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys
of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it
shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it
shall be loosed also in heaven."
So, the church should be built on top of the pope then. That should
mean he should be out working in the dirt instead of sitting on a
thrown like a king while people break dance for him. It's still
backwards. The Catholic church must not be Peter's church. It must
be some gross mutation of it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 06:40:51 AM |
|
|
<BubbaGump> wrote in message
news:gd8151d7gesea0gnmr3jhouf58u8t0a792@4ax.com...
| On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:46:12 -0400, "Stephen" <net@net.net> wrote:
|
| >"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
| >news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| >| The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| >| 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
| >| and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
| >| the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
| >| diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
| >| for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
| >| no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
| >| heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| >| Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| >| whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| >| humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
| >|
| >|
| >| There we have it in black and white.
| >
| >Yup, we do:
| >
| >"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the
| >gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the
keys
| >of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it
| >shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth,
it
| >shall be loosed also in heaven."
|
|
| So, the church should be built on top of the pope then. That should
| mean he should be out working in the dirt instead of sitting on a
| thrown like a king while people break dance for him. It's still
| backwards. The Catholic church must not be Peter's church. It must
| be some gross mutation of it.
John Paul II was very much a servant. He was honoured, of course, but he
worked hard for the cause of the Gospel of Truth and for the Body of Christ,
the Church. He was a true servant of God and man. He never visited a land
without lowering himself to the earth and putting his face to it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BubbaGump " |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 01:46:43 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:40:51 -0400, "Stephen" <net@net.net> wrote:
<BubbaGump> wrote in message
news:gd8151d7gesea0gnmr3jhouf58u8t0a792@4ax.com...
| On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:46:12 -0400, "Stephen" <net@net.net> wrote:
|
| >"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
| >news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| >| The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| >| 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
| >| and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
| >| the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
| >| diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
| >| for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
| >| no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
| >| heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| >| Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| >| whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| >| humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
| >|
| >|
| >| There we have it in black and white.
| >
| >Yup, we do:
| >
| >"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the
| >gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the
keys
| >of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it
| >shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth,
it
| >shall be loosed also in heaven."
|
|
| So, the church should be built on top of the pope then. That should
| mean he should be out working in the dirt instead of sitting on a
| thrown like a king while people break dance for him. It's still
| backwards. The Catholic church must not be Peter's church. It must
| be some gross mutation of it.
John Paul II was very much a servant. He was honoured, of course, but he
worked hard for the cause of the Gospel of Truth and for the Body of Christ,
the Church. He was a true servant of God and man. He never visited a land
without lowering himself to the earth and putting his face to it.
That's all done for show.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 02:39:11 PM |
|
|
<BubbaGump> wrote in message
news:70h251dq46vmgplv4cnmr2p1qjgmvp2q81@4ax.com...
| On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 02:40:51 -0400, "Stephen" <net@net.net> wrote:
|
| ><BubbaGump> wrote in message
| >news:gd8151d7gesea0gnmr3jhouf58u8t0a792@4ax.com...
| >| On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 18:46:12 -0400, "Stephen" <net@net.net> wrote:
| >|
| >| >"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
| >| >news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| >| >| The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| >| >| 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your
Pope
| >| >| and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.'
On
| >| >| the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which
is
| >| >| diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called
Rabbi:
| >| >| for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And
call
| >| >| no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is
in
| >| >| heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| >| >| Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| >| >| whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| >| >| humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| There we have it in black and white.
| >| >
| >| >Yup, we do:
| >| >
| >| >"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and
the
| >| >gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee
the
| >keys
| >| >of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth,
it
| >| >shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
earth,
| >it
| >| >shall be loosed also in heaven."
| >|
| >|
| >| So, the church should be built on top of the pope then. That should
| >| mean he should be out working in the dirt instead of sitting on a
| >| thrown like a king while people break dance for him. It's still
| >| backwards. The Catholic church must not be Peter's church. It must
| >| be some gross mutation of it.
| >
| >John Paul II was very much a servant. He was honoured, of course, but he
| >worked hard for the cause of the Gospel of Truth and for the Body of
Christ,
| >the Church. He was a true servant of God and man. He never visited a land
| >without lowering himself to the earth and putting his face to it.
| >
|
|
| That's all done for show.
|
Well, there's no convincing you but I'm not going to be party to your great
list of accusations.
<plonk>
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chuckie R. Cash" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 10:52:20 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:39:11 -0400, "Stephen" <net@net.net> wrote:
Well, there's no convincing you but I'm not going to be party to your great
list of accusations.
<plonk>
The words of someone who can't handle the heat. Oh, and the modified
followups are another indication of a juvenile inability to handle
criticism.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael ONeill" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 02:37:42 AM |
|
|
BubbaGump wrote:
<snip>
So, the church should be built on top of the pope then. That should
mean he should b-<SLAP!>
Shaddap, you heathen savage.
M.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BubbaGump " |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 03:03:28 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 03:37:42 +0100, Michael O'Neill
<onq@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote:
BubbaGump wrote:
<snip>
So, the church should be built on top of the pope then. That should
mean he should b-<SLAP!>
Shaddap, you heathen savage.
M.
John the Baptist was in some ways a savage, and he was good friends
with Jesus.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael ONeill" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
05 Apr 2005 12:32:16 PM |
|
|
BubbaGump wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 03:37:42 +0100, Michael O'Neill
<onq@bwahahaha.indigo.ie> wrote:
BubbaGump wrote:
<snip>
So, the church should be built on top of the pope then. That should
mean he should b-<SLAP!>
Shaddap, you heathen savage.
M.
John the Baptist was in some ways a savage,
and he was good friends
with Jesus.
For the sentient, its "cogito ergo sum".
For you, its "cogito ergo gobshite".
M.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Duke of URL" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 02:43:51 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your
Pope and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey
him.' On the contrary, Jesus made the following positive
declaration, which is diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But
be ye not called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all
ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth for one
is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters:
for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among
you shall be your servant. And whosoever shalt exalt himself shall
be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.'
Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white.
Yup, we do:
"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and
the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to
thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt
bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
Oh, now, SHAME on you, Stephen - using documentary evidence to demonstrate
someone's error. Don't you recall what happened to me for doing that?
--
Moses.DukeOfUrl@gmail.com
Cliologist, Philanthropologist, Prothonotary Wibbler,
Paleoconservative, Surface Warrior Squid
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "wcb" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
03 Apr 2005 11:42:37 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
| and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
| the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
| diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
| for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
| no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
| heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
|
|
| There we have it in black and white.
Yup, we do:
"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the
gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the
keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth,
it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou
shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
16:20
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus
the Christ.
16:21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he
must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief
priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
16:22
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee,
Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an
offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but
those that be of men.
You all always ignore 16:23.
What Jesus meant was he'd form his movement on
the realization of men he was the messiah, not
that Peter was head of his church.
Furthermore, Jesus prphecied he'd preside over the
end of the world, and judgment day itself some 1930
years ago. There would be no church, no world as
man knew it either.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 12:03:13 AM |
|
|
"wcb" <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:1150vl4h1ac4bc9@corp.supernews.com...
| Stephen wrote:
|
| > "Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
| > news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| > | The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| > | 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
| > | and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
| > | the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
| > | diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
| > | for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
| > | no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
| > | heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| > | Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| > | whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| > | humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
| > |
| > |
| > | There we have it in black and white.
| >
| > Yup, we do:
| >
| > "That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the
| > gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the
| > keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon
earth,
| > it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
| > earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
|
|
| 16:18
| And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will
| build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
|
| 16:19
| And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and
whatsoever
| thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou
| shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
|
| 16:20
| Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was
Jesus
| the Christ.
|
| 16:21
| From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he
| must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief
| priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
|
| 16:22
| Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee,
| Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
|
| 16:23
| But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an
| offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but
| those that be of men.
|
|
| You all always ignore 16:23.
|
| What Jesus meant was he'd form his movement on
| the realization of men he was the messiah, not
| that Peter was head of his church.
|
| Furthermore, Jesus prphecied he'd preside over the
| end of the world, and judgment day itself some 1930
| years ago. There would be no church, no world as
| man knew it either.
|
16:23 is consistent. Look at the Church - we are a bunch of sinners who have
put our hope in Jesus. We were with satanic, spoke for satanic, acted as the
satanic wanted us to act and sometimes unwittingly still do. But we've
repented and put our hope in Jesus. He will save us, His Church.
But look closely. He gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom .. so He was talking
*to* Peter.
Was Peter Satan? Yes, in the sense that Peter was motivated by the satanic
spirit to 'rebuke' Jesus. But, like John Paul II, fallen as he was, because
of Jesus he was redeemed.
I'm moving the discussion to a.r.c.r-c because I do not think it is fair to
bother the atheists with Christian discussion.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "BubbaGump" |
|
| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 02:28:45 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:42:37 -0500, wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
Stephen wrote:
"Love a Sheep" <sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com...
| The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
| 'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
| and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
| the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
| diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
| for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
| no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
| heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
| Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
| whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
| humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
|
|
| There we have it in black and white.
Yup, we do:
"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the
gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the
keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth,
it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou
shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
16:20
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus
the Christ.
16:21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he
must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief
priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
16:22
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee,
Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an
offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but
those that be of men.
You all always ignore 16:23.
What Jesus meant was he'd form his movement on
the realization of men he was the messiah, not
that Peter was head of his church.
You're saying that Jesus was referring to an abstract quality
associated with Peter and not specifically to Peter himself?
This sounds similar to the whole "this is my body and my blood" thing.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Tapio Erola" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
03 Apr 2005 10:51:44 PM |
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(Love a Sheep) writes:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
One of the most important papal titles was "Servus Servorum Dei",
which translates as "Servant of the Servants of God".
--
Tapio Erola
Complexity is grown from simple systems that already work.
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| User: "Glenallan" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
03 Apr 2005 11:18:26 PM |
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"Tapio Erola" <txr@rak061.oulu.fi> wrote in message
news:m3wtrjcw3j.fsf@rak061.oulu.fi...
sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk (Love a Sheep) writes:
Complexity is grown from simple systems that already work.
Cool.! Try this one I baked myself...
"Popery is doomed, but not today"
G
--
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| User: "Jackie Mulheron" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
03 Apr 2005 11:31:29 PM |
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"Glenallan" <robert.black@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:425079bd$0$305$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
"Tapio Erola" <txr@rak061.oulu.fi> wrote in message
news:m3wtrjcw3j.fsf@rak061.oulu.fi...
sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk (Love a Sheep) writes:
Complexity is grown from simple systems that already work.
Cool.! Try this one I baked myself...
"Popery is doomed, but not today"
We are all doomed...on any day bar those of bus strikes.
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| User: "BubbaGump" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 02:41:53 AM |
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On 04 Apr 2005 01:51:44 +0300, Tapio Erola <txr@rak061.oulu.fi> wrote:
sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk (Love a Sheep) writes:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
One of the most important papal titles was "Servus Servorum Dei",
which translates as "Servant of the Servants of God".
Words mean nothing. Make the pope take that fancy hat off and
exchange his immaculate white robes for some street clothes.
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| User: "keithw" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 11:51:32 PM |
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In article <264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com>,
sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk says...
Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
Either your private and fallable interpretation of scripture is wrong,
or the following Apostles are wrong. Which is it? Do you pretend to know
more than they???
Ro:4:1: What shall we say then that Abraham *our father*, as pertaining
to the flesh, hath found?
Ro:9:10: And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one,
even by *our father* Isaac;
1Co:4:15: For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet
have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you
through the gospel.
Eph:6:2: Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment
with promise;)
Eph:6:4: And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring
them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Ph'p:2:22: But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father,
he hath served with me in the gospel.
Col:3:21: Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be
discouraged.
1Th:2:11: As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one
of you, as a father doth his children,
1Tm:5:1: Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the
younger men as brethren;
Jas:2:21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had
offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
1Jo:2:13: I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is
from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have
overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye
have known the Father.
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| User: "Dr Tam" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
05 Apr 2005 02:55:26 AM |
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"keithw" <keithw@notospam.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cbb8efac78039d59896d9@news.charter.net...
In article <264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com>,
sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk says...
Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
Either your private and fallable interpretation of scripture is wrong,
or the following Apostles are wrong. Which is it? Do you pretend to know
more than they???
Ro:4:1: What shall we say then that Abraham *our father*, as pertaining
to the flesh, hath found?
Ro:9:10: And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one,
even by *our father* Isaac;
1Co:4:15: For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet
have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you
through the gospel.
Eph:6:2: Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment
with promise;)
Eph:6:4: And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring
them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Ph'p:2:22: But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father,
he hath served with me in the gospel.
Col:3:21: Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be
discouraged.
1Th:2:11: As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one
of you, as a father doth his children,
1Tm:5:1: Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the
younger men as brethren;
Jas:2:21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had
offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
1Jo:2:13: I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is
from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have
overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye
have known the Father.
Reminds me of Rev Lovejoy in the Simpsons! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Dr Tam
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| User: "Jackie Mulheron" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
05 Apr 2005 05:23:30 PM |
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"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:n6n4e.16007$1S4.1636779@news.xtra.co.nz...
"keithw" <keithw@notospam.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cbb8efac78039d59896d9@news.charter.net...
In article <264c4ea4.0504031414.526a461b@posting.google.com>,
sheepshaggerx@yahoo.co.uk says...
Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
Either your private and fallable interpretation of scripture is wrong,
or the following Apostles are wrong. Which is it? Do you pretend to know
more than they???
Ro:4:1: What shall we say then that Abraham *our father*, as pertaining
to the flesh, hath found?
Ro:9:10: And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one,
even by *our father* Isaac;
1Co:4:15: For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet
have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you
through the gospel.
Eph:6:2: Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment
with promise;)
Eph:6:4: And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring
them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Ph'p:2:22: But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father,
he hath served with me in the gospel.
Col:3:21: Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be
discouraged.
1Th:2:11: As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one
of you, as a father doth his children,
1Tm:5:1: Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the
younger men as brethren;
Jas:2:21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had
offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
1Jo:2:13: I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is
from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have
overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye
have known the Father.
Reminds me of Rev Lovejoy in the Simpsons! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
You miss the point of Rev Lovejoy as well I see.
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| User: "BubbaGump " |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
05 Apr 2005 12:21:18 AM |
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I'm not sure pointing out that some parts of the Bible contradict each
other is helping the argument.
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| User: "westprog" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
05 Apr 2005 10:44:29 AM |
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<BubbaGump> wrote in message
news:tcm351tj6s9urnn7ii3thglpldoh7dn4cf@4ax.com...
I'm not sure pointing out that some parts of the Bible contradict each
other is helping the argument.
If one side of the argument has Bible literalists then it pretty much ends
it.
J/
SOTW: "God's Footballer" - Billy Bragg
http://homepage.eircom.net/~albedo1/
"Dear Parents.
As you may know Stephen M* (4th class) is quite ill and awaiting a
call to go to England for treatment. While the treatment will be
covered by the Dept. of Health, traveling expenses accommodation etc.,
are not. A fund-raising table quiz will be held in Murray's,
Bath Avenue on Tuesday April 5th at 8.30 p.m. ( approx ).
We are hoping for a big turn-out for what should be a good
fun-night with spot-prizes etc
Best wishes.
Liam *(Principal)"
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| User: "JohnN" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 07:29:41 PM |
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Love a Sheep wrote:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your
Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.'
On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And
call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
Actually, the Pope is the Bishop of Rome. As a make-up question, name
the Bishop of Rome's cathedral?
JohnN
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| User: "IKnowMoreThanYou" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
04 Apr 2005 07:34:56 PM |
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JohnN wrote:
Love a Sheep wrote:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by
saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your
Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.'
On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which
is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called
Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And
call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is
in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
Actually, the Pope is the Bishop of Rome. As a make-up question,
name
the Bishop of Rome's cathedral?
JohnN
Waaaaaay too easy...Saint John Lateran.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
03 Apr 2005 10:21:52 PM |
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On 3 Apr 2005 15:14:16 -0700, (Love a Sheep)
wrote:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
However, compare Matthew 16:13-19, and the Catholic response to
Protestant objections to Petrine succession below:
http://www.cathinsight.com/apologetics/rock.htm
(In fairness, I should point out that I'm an atheist, and don't
believe in either position; I just find it amusing how believers will
squabble over points of doctrine that seem absurd to any outside
observer).
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| User: "Cory Bhreckan" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
03 Apr 2005 10:49:07 PM |
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raven1 wrote:
On 3 Apr 2005 15:14:16 -0700, (Love a Sheep)
wrote:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
However, compare Matthew 16:13-19, and the Catholic response to
Protestant objections to Petrine succession below:
http://www.cathinsight.com/apologetics/rock.htm
(In fairness, I should point out that I'm an atheist, and don't
believe in either position; I just find it amusing how believers will
squabble over points of doctrine that seem absurd to any outside
observer).
The squabble is always about power, it is merely diguised by dogma and
other trivia. The Roman chuch squabbled with the Celtic church over the
correct way to calculate Easter and the "Pelagian Heresy" but the issue
was really one of who ran the whole show.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
05 Apr 2005 10:45:17 PM |
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On 3 Apr 2005 15:14:16 -0700, (Love a Sheep) wrote:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
Yet you failed to admit to Mat 16:19 when Jesus acknowledged that 1:1
communication between God the Father and the Holy Father was the way he wanted
his Church on earth run. And so was established the Papacy.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Chuckie R. Cash" |
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| Title: Re: No Pope of Rome |
07 Apr 2005 06:19:52 PM |
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On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 17:45:17 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 3 Apr 2005 15:14:16 -0700, (Love a Sheep) wrote:
The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying:
'See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope
and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.' On
the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is
diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: 'But be ye not called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call
no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in
heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even
Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And
whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.' Matthew 23:8-12.
There we have it in black and white...
Yet you failed to admit to Mat 16:19 when Jesus acknowledged that 1:1
communication between God the Father and the Holy Father was the way he wanted
his Church on earth run. And so was established the Papacy.
Go on, quote it then :-)
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