| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Xomicron" |
| Date: |
05 Apr 2004 02:31:50 PM |
| Object: |
No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
It's not freedom from religion
WorldNetDaily.com
Just as America's troops are giving their lives in Iraq to protect
such basic human rights as the freedom of religion and free speech,
the Maryland Senate made the most un-American move it has made in
recent history. Maryland government officials attempted to censor the
prayer of Rev. David Hughes because he wanted to end the prayer, "In
Jesus' name ... Amen."
When the good pastor refused to delete what is an essential element of
a Christian prayer, he was banned from praying at all. In other words,
only those prayers receiving government sanction are permitted to be
uttered in the Maryland Senate.
How can it be that there are still American government officials who
don't understand the First Amendment? Thank the Good Lord there are
protectors of the First Amendment who work everyday to preserve this
most basic of American, and human rights. Among them are the American
Center for Law and Justice, the Pacific Justice Institute and the
Rutherford Institute. A quick visit to the websites of these fine
organizations reveals so many violations of First Amendment rights it
will make your head swim. Particularly disturbing are the many
attempts by public-school officials around the country to silence
religious expression by students.
Take, for instance, the story from just this December involving
students of Westfield High School outside of Springfield, Mass.,
recently brought to court by the Liberty Council in Orlando, Fla. A
few kids asked their principal if they could distribute candy canes
that had a Christian message attached. The principal refused. The
school superintendent was also approached and the same "no" was given.
These government workers refused to let the students distribute the
candy canes because the message on the folded cards that came with the
candy canes "might offend" other students. The simple words of "Merry
Christmas" were deemed too religious.
The kids, taking their orders from a little higher up, disobeyed the
principal and handed out 450 candy canes the day before Christmas
break. The principal ordered in-school suspensions for ignoring his
orders. Six of the seven refused to accept the punishment and took him
to court. Thankfully, a few weeks ago a federal judge ruled in their
favor.
Because the candy canes "might offend" students? In this case, the
principal and superintendent were acting as agents of the state. If
it's going to be the position of the state of Massachusetts – or
any other state – that anything that "might offend" someone will
be forbidden from the public square, then here are a few items
reasonable people could suggest banning:
Triple-x movie theaters? See ya!
"P--- Christ" and any number of its cousins in the thoroughly
unoriginal, incredibly irreligious shock-schlock genre of modern art?
Bon voyage!
Movies starring Hanoi Jane Fonda? I thought this day would never come.
Howard Stern and other shock jocks? Pull the plug!
The truth is, our culture is chock-full of images today that offend
large swaths of the population. In some cases, such as the
aforementioned modern art, those large swaths are even asked to pay
for the offensive material.
But is it right to ask the government to ban such images and items
that even most Americans find offensive? Usually not. The best we can
do as parents is to teach our children right from wrong and trust that
they, too, know to turn away when they see so much of what our
"culture" has to offer.
But let a kid put down his violent video games and his bong and his
F-word-loaded rap music and take up the cause of spreading the word of
Christ, and suddenly school officials everywhere are worried whether
their conduct "might offend" people. Ah, you say, but those movies and
commercials and reality shows and rappers are protected by the First
Amendment.
Guess what. So are the candy-cane kids and the pastor in Maryland. As
our brave soldiers battle overseas for the rights of the oppressed, we
must remember that free speech and the freedom of religion are bedrock
principles that are worth fighting for through the courts here at
home.
As Thomas Jefferson said in 1798: "One of the amendments to the
Constitution ... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the
press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same
words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch
that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers
the others."
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| User: "Sparkup" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
05 Apr 2004 02:44:48 PM |
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"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
WorldNetDaily.com
<Snipped, yet another post that ignores the fact that porn theatres,
shock-jock radio stations, ***** Christ et al are not owned by, or promoted
by the state>
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
05 Apr 2004 05:26:13 PM |
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On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:44:48 +0100, "Sparkup"
<junksender888@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
WorldNetDaily.com
<Snipped, yet another post that ignores the fact that porn theatres,
shock-jock radio stations, ***** Christ et al are not owned by, or promoted
by the state>
Mustang Ranch, anybody?
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
05 Apr 2004 05:40:48 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:16n370lg5he6llauidektus5jugrb7numr@4ax.com:
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:44:48 +0100, "Sparkup"
<junksender888@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
WorldNetDaily.com
<Snipped, yet another post that ignores the fact that porn theatres,
shock-jock radio stations, ***** Christ et al are not owned by, or
promoted by the state>
Mustang Ranch, anybody?
Gone, but not forgotten.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
05 Apr 2004 05:13:55 PM |
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"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion. The
same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to believe
anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not* believe. What part
of that don't you understand?
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 07:27:09 AM |
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"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion.
The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to
believe anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not* believe.
What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
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| User: "Shawn Hearn" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 07:59:26 PM |
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In article <c4u7ms$2nguq1$2@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion.
The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to
believe anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not* believe.
What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
What argument is that? Why does Jesus need something as corporial as our
government to spread His word? If Jesus is so great, why can't people
pray to Him in the privacy of their own homes and in churches?
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| User: "Osprey" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 08:12:13 PM |
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"Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-092C41.20592606042004@news-60.giganews.com...
In article <c4u7ms$2nguq1$2@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion.
The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to
believe anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not*
believe.
What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
What argument is that? Why does Jesus need something as corporial as our
government to spread His word? If Jesus is so great, why can't people
pray to Him in the privacy of their own homes and in churches?
That would be like saying, why can't homosexuals stay in their own homes or
bathhouses.
You are doing exactly what people accuse those of when they say that about
homosexuals.
This is America, and in America, we are allowed to speak freely.
If my child wishes to pray in school before class starts, my child can and
will.
And do you know what you are can do about it? Answer: Nothing
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 10:27:43 PM |
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(newsgroups trimmed to those that might relate to this)
Osprey wrote:
(snip)
This is America, and in America, we are allowed to speak freely.
If my child wishes to pray in school before class starts, my child can and
will.
And do you know what you are can do about it? Answer: Nothing
I'm atheist, and I agree with you. I also don't want to do anything
about it, but that is not the point. The point is that you and your
child and every American has the constitutional right to their own
religious beliefs without interference from the government. And as
long as we keep the government out the religion business, this right
will remain. Newdow is out to protect your religious rights along
with his own.
--
John Popelish
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| User: "Osprey" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
07 Apr 2004 07:07:05 AM |
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"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:4073752F.3A0D7E04@rica.net...
(newsgroups trimmed to those that might relate to this)
Osprey wrote:
(snip)
This is America, and in America, we are allowed to speak freely.
If my child wishes to pray in school before class starts, my child can
and
will.
And do you know what you are can do about it? Answer: Nothing
I'm atheist, and I agree with you. I also don't want to do anything
about it, but that is not the point. The point is that you and your
child and every American has the constitutional right to their own
religious beliefs without interference from the government. And as
long as we keep the government out the religion business, this right
will remain. Newdow is out to protect your religious rights along
with his own.
well said
--
John Popelish
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| User: "L.S.L" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 09:08:32 PM |
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That would be like saying, why can't homosexuals stay in their own homes or
bathhouses.
You are doing exactly what people accuse those of when they say that about
homosexuals.
This is America, and in America, we are allowed to speak freely.
If my child wishes to pray in school before class starts, my child can and
will.
And do you know what you are can do about it? Answer: Nothing
Bravo!!!!!
< standing ovation >
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| User: "Matt" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
07 Apr 2004 06:15:31 AM |
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Osprey wrote:
"Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-092C41.20592606042004@news-60.giganews.com...
In article <c4u7ms$2nguq1$2@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion.
The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to
believe anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not*
believe.
What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
What argument is that? Why does Jesus need something as corporial as our
government to spread His word? If Jesus is so great, why can't people
pray to Him in the privacy of their own homes and in churches?
That would be like saying, why can't homosexuals stay in their own homes or
bathhouses.
You are doing exactly what people accuse those of when they say that about
homosexuals.
This is America, and in America, we are allowed to speak freely.
If my child wishes to pray in school before class starts, my child can and
will.
And do you know what you are can do about it? Answer: Nothing
No, its about accepting that there is a time and a place for everything.
For me, I don't care whether someone says a prayer. When the
parliamentary session opens in Australia each day, there is a prayer
blessing the house as well as the "Our Father"; again, there are no
issues with that.
It seems that "evil Europe" have no problems with having zyx religion in
their constitution whilst allowing freedom of religion. In the
Australian constitution, the Church of England is the official religion
of Australia, and yet, we have freedom of religion and none of the laws
are based on that clause in the constitution.
Why is there such a great issue about religious in the US?
Matt
--
http://home.iprimus.com.au/matgarnz
"Atheism is a non-prophet organisation"
"Mays Gilliam didn't attend the 'Rally to Fight Cancer'
last year. Does this mean Mays Gilliam is for Cancer?
A vote for Mays Gilliam is a vote for Cancer." - Head of State
"Baldrick, you are as thick as some extra-clotted clotted
cream that has been left out in the rain by some clot, so
much that you couldn't unclot it with an electric
declotter." - Edmund Blackadder
"I have a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and
call it a weasel!" - Edmund Blackadder
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| User: "Light Templar" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
07 Apr 2004 06:22:35 AM |
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Matt wrote:
Osprey wrote:
"Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-092C41.20592606042004@news-60.giganews.com...
In article <c4u7ms$2nguq1$2@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no*
religion. The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you
the right to believe anything you like also guarantees me the
right to *not*
believe.
What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
What argument is that? Why does Jesus need something as corporial
as our government to spread His word? If Jesus is so great, why
can't people pray to Him in the privacy of their own homes and in
churches?
That would be like saying, why can't homosexuals stay in their own
homes or bathhouses.
You are doing exactly what people accuse those of when they say that
about homosexuals.
This is America, and in America, we are allowed to speak freely.
If my child wishes to pray in school before class starts, my child
can and will.
And do you know what you are can do about it? Answer: Nothing
No, its about accepting that there is a time and a place for
everything. For me, I don't care whether someone says a prayer. When
the parliamentary session opens in Australia each day, there is a
prayer blessing the house as well as the "Our Father"; again, there
are no issues with that.
It seems that "evil Europe" have no problems with having zyx religion
in their constitution whilst allowing freedom of religion. In the
Australian constitution, the Church of England is the official
religion of Australia, and yet, we have freedom of religion and none
of the laws are based on that clause in the constitution.
Why is there such a great issue about religious in the US?
Matt
There's really not. Mr. Hearn's diatribe is really just smoke. Anyone
can pray before class, or even during class if they don't disturb the
educational process, as a private matter. Our local school has prayer
groups that meet before school starts, and I think again at lunch time, to
pray and eat. What is not allowed is school/government mandated/led
prayer, or other public establishment of any religion.
--
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities
in our air and water that are doing it." - J. Danforth Quayle
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| User: "Dionisio" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 08:59:18 PM |
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Osprey wrote:
That would be like saying, why can't homosexuals stay in their own homes or
bathhouses.
Well, gee, could it be because we're not commanded to? (Matthew 6:6 But
thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut
thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which
seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.)
--
"According to a POLL of my friends they all think women who have abortions should be CASTRATED, and 50% think castration is too good for them."
-- Sedar Cockwekk (AKA: Serdar Argic), July 17, 1994
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| User: "L.S.L" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 09:07:22 PM |
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You obviously missed the original argument.
What argument is that? Why does Jesus need something as corporial as our
government to spread His word? If Jesus is so great, why can't people
pray to Him in the privacy of their own homes and in churches?
Um....they do.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 08:06:30 PM |
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Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in
news:srhi-092C41.20592606042004@news-60.giganews.com:
In article <c4u7ms$2nguq1$2@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no*
religion. The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the
right to believe anything you like also guarantees me the right to
*not* believe. What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
What argument is that? Why does Jesus need something as corporial as our
government to spread His word? If Jesus is so great, why can't people
pray to Him in the privacy of their own homes and in churches?
The post was in repsonse to someone claiming that it was a violation of
his rights if someone prayed for him.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
07 Apr 2004 07:10:17 AM |
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Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in
news:srhi-092C41.20592606042004@news-60.giganews.com:
In article <c4u7ms$2nguq1$2@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion.
The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to
believe anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not*
believe. What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
What argument is that? Why does Jesus need something as corporial as our
government to spread His word? If Jesus is so great, why can't people
pray to Him in the privacy of their own homes and in churches?
They do that too, moron.
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
25 Apr 2004 12:27:29 PM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<c4u7ms$2nguq1$2@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion.
The same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to
believe anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not* believe.
What part of that don't you understand?
You obviously missed the original argument.
The argument wasn't original.
If there was something going on before this thread then it needs to be
referenced in this thread, otherwise, we're dealing with just this
thread.
The separation of church and state is there for a good and valid
reason - a reason that is highlighted every day by the extremes of
fundamentalists who are totally clueless to the fact that if you
repeatedly chip away at a wall, no matter how small the chips are, no
matter how much you whine that this little chip isn't going to bring
down the wall, if you chip away at a wall endlessly and without regard
for anything other than your own misguided ego, then eventually that
wall will come crashing down and cripple everyone it's supposed to
protect.
Budikka
Budikka
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
05 Apr 2004 10:22:48 PM |
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"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message news:<DSkcc.119720$8G2.72523@fe3.columbus.rr.com>...
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de...
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion. The
same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to believe
anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not* believe. What part
of that don't you understand?
You only have ot look at the groups to which the clueless moron is
posting this ***** to see what a complete waste of a human being he
is. There is no "understanding" at all - he's incapable of it.
Budikka
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
05 Apr 2004 05:54:21 PM |
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John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
It's not freedom from religion
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom to choose *no* religion. The
same Constitutional amendment that guarantees you the right to believe
anything you like also guarantees me the right to *not* believe. What part
of that don't you understand?
The very first word.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: No such thing as "Freedom from Religion" |
06 Apr 2004 08:21:33 AM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<c4sc76$2lf664$20@ID-170553.news.uni-berlin.de>...
It's not freedom from religion
WorldNetDaily.com
[...]
Are you looking at the Confederate Constitution?
Constitution of the Confederate States of America
http://americancivilwar.com/documents/confederate_constitution.html
March 11,1861
We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its
sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent
federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity,
and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our
posterity~invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God~do ordain
and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.
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