In article <1110541549.ecc8e498ff2ab23179803290c604c9eb@teranews>, Fred
Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:cT9Yd.6294$sy1.550493@wagner.videotron.net:

tourniquet is more dangerous than helpful.

OK, so drop the tourniquet too.

Uh, no, get the instructions right. The "instruction manual" for a
morphine shot would be the whole medic course. It's just not practical
to train every soldier as a medic.

The military disagrees with you.

"Individuals other than medics may be called upon to provide medical
care on the battlefield. Each combatant should be able to perform
life-saving interventions such as the application of a tourniquet, and
simple tasks such as self-administration of oral antibiotics and
analgesics. This is the goal of an Army program called ³Combat
Lifesavers² in which non-medics receive basic medical training in
specified life-saving skills."

In article <1110541549.ecc8e498ff2ab23179803290c604c9eb@teranews>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in
news:cT9Yd.6294$sy1.550493@wagner.videotron.net:

tourniquet is more dangerous than helpful.

OK, so drop the tourniquet too.

Uh, no, get the instructions right. The "instruction manual" for a
morphine shot would be the whole medic course. It's just not
practical to train every soldier as a medic.

The military disagrees with you.

"Individuals other than medics may be called upon to provide medical
care on the battlefield. Each combatant should be able to perform
life-saving interventions such as the application of a tourniquet, and
simple tasks such as self-administration of oral antibiotics and
analgesics. This is the goal of an Army program called ³Combat
Lifesavers² in which non-medics receive basic medical training in
specified life-saving skills."

http://64.233.161.104/search?

e
s/military5th2003sept04.pdf+morphine+and+combat+shock&hl=en&lr=lang_en

or

http://www.phtls.net/datafiles/military5th2003sept04.pdf

It then goes on in Table 4 to give a list of the skills a "combat
lifesaver" should have, which include intramuscular adminstration of
morphine, assess for shock and even a needle thoracostomy.

My question is whether the military has actually implemented any of
this, particularly with regards to the morphine and its availability
to individual soldiers. Obviously, they haven't delivered on the
tourniquets. But hey, 10,000 wounded GIs later, they're working on it.

--Sean C

Gregory Gadow wrote:

Olrik wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:4230571D.6D5664EB@serv.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in news:sbidnQbS-
Jq3WbLfRVn-2Q@comcast.com:

This is Bushism in its purest form. There is no excuse for this.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=562730

Oh, spare us, this is Senatorial grandstanding at its finest.

Some right wing neo-cons just don't care that lives are being lost for
want of a $1 piece of cord.

Read the article again. They *are* including tourniquets in first aid
kits. There is some question about the instruction manual. Anyone with
basic first aid training (like me) knows that an improperly applied
tourniquet is more dangerous than helpful.

OK, so drop the tourniquet too. In a earlier post, you said that
morphine can also have a negative effect.

I'm the one who mentioned why morphine is no longer a part of the kit. And I
was not asserting that morphine had a negative effect, I was proving the
rationale of the US military in why morphine was removed.

Maybe you mentioned it, but here's a quote from Fred :

"It's too risky, not because somebody might use it to get high, but
because administering a shot of morphine to someone who is in shock can
kill them outright. Better to let them *live* in agony than kill them
with a dangerous painkiller."

It's in this thread, just a few posts up, in his reply to Sean C.

In article <1110476537.bc63c9195114c1e6eeebaa1163534d1f@teranews> Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> writes:

And of course you can make a tourniquet from a bandage and a stick.

Well, sure... if you're totally unimaginative.

McGuyver, on the other hand, could improvise a simple
tourniquet utilizing merely a drill press, six coat hangers,
a reciprocating cyclotronic far-infrared Cherenkov
mass spectrometer, and his bare hands.

TV's Fred Stone wrote:

"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:39bd69F5u3l62U1@individual.net:

TV's Fred Stone wrote:

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:4230571D.6D5664EB@serv.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in news:sbidnQbS-
Jq3WbLfRVn-2Q@comcast.com:

This is Bushism in its purest form. There is no excuse for this.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=562730

Oh, spare us, this is Senatorial grandstanding at its finest.

Some right wing neo-cons just don't care that lives are being lost
for want of a $1 piece of cord.

Read the article again. They *are* including tourniquets in first
aid kits. There is some question about the instruction manual.
Anyone with basic first aid training (like me) knows that an
improperly applied tourniquet is more dangerous than helpful.

Notice also that these are the same grandstanding Senators who
complained about the "armored Humvee" problem that was already
being dealt with.

That's EXACTLY it. There should have never been a problem with
armor on vehicles, or the lack of first-aid supplies, or anything
else.

There never was a problem with armor on vehicles. There were a few
grandstanding politicians trying to make hay out of the fact that not
all vehicles needed armor in the first place.

In a dangerous place like Iraq, *ALL* military vehicles should be
fitted with armor. No exceptions.

Nor a lack of first aid supplies. There are some grandstanding
senators trying to make hay out of the fact that they didn't include
a specially- made tourniquet in some first-aid kits, even though you
can make a perfectly functional tourniquet with a bandage and a
stick.

Fixing the problem now does not excuse them of their initial
incompetence.

The only incompetance is that of the gulliberals who don't bother to
*think* when they're fed anti-administration propaganda by their
political masters.

Like you ever had an original thought in your entire life?

TV's Fred Stone wrote:

"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:39bd69F5u3l62U1@individual.net:

TV's Fred Stone wrote:

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:4230571D.6D5664EB@serv.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in news:sbidnQbS-
Jq3WbLfRVn-2Q@comcast.com:

This is Bushism in its purest form. There is no excuse for this.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=562730

Oh, spare us, this is Senatorial grandstanding at its finest.

Some right wing neo-cons just don't care that lives are being lost
for want of a $1 piece of cord.

Read the article again. They *are* including tourniquets in first aid
kits. There is some question about the instruction manual. Anyone
with basic first aid training (like me) knows that an improperly
applied tourniquet is more dangerous than helpful.

Notice also that these are the same grandstanding Senators who
complained about the "armored Humvee" problem that was already being
dealt with.

That's EXACTLY it. There should have never been a problem with armor
on vehicles, or the lack of first-aid supplies, or anything else.

There never was a problem with armor on vehicles. There were a few
grandstanding politicians trying to make hay out of the fact that not
all vehicles needed armor in the first place.

In a dangerous place like Iraq, *ALL* military vehicles should be fitted
with armor. No exceptions.

Nor a lack of first aid supplies. There are some grandstanding senators
trying to make hay out of the fact that they didn't include a specially-
made tourniquet in some first-aid kits, even though you can make a
perfectly functional tourniquet with a bandage and a stick.

Fixing the problem now does not excuse them of their initial
incompetence.

The only incompetance is that of the gulliberals who don't bother to
*think* when they're fed anti-administration propaganda by their
political masters.

Like you ever had an original thought in your entire life?

TV's Fred Stone wrote:

"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:39bd69F5u3l62U1@individual.net:

TV's Fred Stone wrote:

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:4230571D.6D5664EB@serv.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in news:sbidnQbS-
Jq3WbLfRVn-2Q@comcast.com:

This is Bushism in its purest form. There is no excuse for this.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=562730

Oh, spare us, this is Senatorial grandstanding at its finest.

Some right wing neo-cons just don't care that lives are being lost
for want of a $1 piece of cord.

Read the article again. They *are* including tourniquets in first aid
kits. There is some question about the instruction manual. Anyone
with basic first aid training (like me) knows that an improperly
applied tourniquet is more dangerous than helpful.

Notice also that these are the same grandstanding Senators who
complained about the "armored Humvee" problem that was already being
dealt with.

That's EXACTLY it. There should have never been a problem with armor
on vehicles, or the lack of first-aid supplies, or anything else.

There never was a problem with armor on vehicles. There were a few
grandstanding politicians trying to make hay out of the fact that not
all vehicles needed armor in the first place.

In a dangerous place like Iraq, *ALL* military vehicles should be fitted
with armor. No exceptions.

Nor a lack of first aid supplies. There are some grandstanding senators
trying to make hay out of the fact that they didn't include a specially-
made tourniquet in some first-aid kits, even though you can make a
perfectly functional tourniquet with a bandage and a stick.

Fixing the problem now does not excuse them of their initial
incompetence.

The only incompetance is that of the gulliberals who don't bother to
*think* when they're fed anti-administration propaganda by their
political masters.

Like you ever had an original thought in your entire life?

In article <1110494270.a871f304b74d246666f1f14ba396d34f@teranews>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Of course, none of this explains why there weren't tourniquets in the
old kits. My $8 first-aid kit has a tourniquet, for god's sake!

You can make a tourniquet with a bandage and a stick. So there *are*
tourniquets in the old kits.

Ah... so there's no need to address the issue, then. The Army could have
saved itself a lot of bother by just saying "stick... strip of cloth...
no problem!" Wonder why they didn't?