No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"maff"
Date:	07 Jan 2006 05:27:46 AM
Object:	No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything

No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1681002,00.html
Richard Dawkins's latest attack on religion is an intellectually lazy
polemic not worthy of a great scientist
Madeleine Bunting
Saturday January 7, 2006
The Guardian
On Monday, it's Richard Dawkins's turn (yet again) to take up the
cudgels against religious faith in a two-part Channel 4 programme, The
Root of All Evil? His voice is one of the loudest in an increasingly
shrill chorus of atheist humanists; something has got them badly
rattled. They even turned their bitter invective on Narnia. By all
means, let's have a serious debate about religious belief, one of the
most complex and fascinating phenomena on the planet, but the suspicion
is that it's not what this chorus wants. Behind unsubstantiated
assertions, sweeping generalisations and random anecdotal evidence,
there's the unmistakable whiff of panic; they fear religion is on the
march again.
Madeleine Bunting
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a93703b3ac7cc6ef
http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=%22Madeleine+Bunting%22
Richard Dawkins
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/06eabadab5e94250
Atheism
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/b6f6ec8cb25c4495
.

User: "Scott Draper"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 02:11:01 PM

<<As GK Chesterton pointed out, the problem when people don't believe
in God is not that they believe nothing, it is that they believe
anything.>>
The author is apparently equating rational athiesm such Dawkins' and
anyone who rejects religion for emotional reasons and flocks to other
equivalent irrationalities.
I would suggest to her that any strict rationalist will be an athiest,
but not all athiests are rationalists.
.

User: "Tom"
Title: OT: Thanks, but we know how to google	07 Jan 2006 07:11:55 AM

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136633266.340925.143300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Madeleine Bunting
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a93703b3ac7cc6ef

http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=%22Madeleine+Bunting%22

Richard Dawkins
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/06eabadab5e94250

Atheism
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/b6f6ec8cb25c4495

Maff, everyone knows how to use a search engine. Google gets tens of
millions of unique visitors DAILY. You can stop now. You've singlehandedly
made their stock trade at 100 times earnings.
.

User: "Ike"
Title: Re: Thanks, but we know how to google	07 Jan 2006 09:34:29 PM

"Tom" <t_j_meunier@yahoo.someth.ng> wrote in message
news:v6Pvf.3968$fb4.1003@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136633266.340925.143300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Maff, everyone knows how to use a search engine. Google gets tens of
millions of unique visitors DAILY. You can stop now. You've
singlehandedly made their stock trade at 100 times earnings.

That's why he's been in my killfile for months.
.

User: "Tom"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 07:06:12 AM

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136633266.340925.143300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[snip exerpt]
Third paragraph:
"Over the 20th century, atheist political regimes racked up an appalling
(and unmatched) record for violence."
Note there's no discussion or evidence for this assertion, but let's go
ahead and tolerate this for the moment.
Sixth paragraph:
"Let's leave the political scientists to point out the absurd simplification
of these political struggles over land, rights and resources, but take a
wider point. Human beings develop collective identities - ethnic,
nationalist, religious or political - and find in them a sense of belonging,
of personal identity and solidarity; the problem is how, at points of
competition and threat, those identities flare up into horrible violence.
Pinning all the blame on religion blindly ignores the evidence; the Rwandan
tragedy was about ethnicity, the Holocaust about a racist political
ideology."
Ooh, how quickly we abandon the standards we ask for.
.

User: "Bonfire of the Deities..."
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 11:31:13 AM

"Tom" <t_j_meunier@yahoo.someth.ng> wrote in message
news:81Pvf.3967$fb4.3819@new

Ooh, how quickly we abandon the standards we ask for.

Indeed. And in fact there are countless other failings in this desperately
insubstantial article. For example, we see:
"[...] Dawkins is featured in Jerusalem; the point is that religion causes
violence and most of the world's conflicts can be traced back to faith. If
only they didn't have segregated schooling in Israel and Palestine then
peace could emerge. [...] Let's leave the political scientists to point out
the absurd simplification of these political struggles over land, rights and
resources, but take a wider point. Human beings develop collective
identities - ethnic, nationalist, religious or political - and find in them
a sense of belonging, of personal identity and solidarity; the problem is
how, at points of competition and threat, those identities flare up into
horrible violence. Pinning all the blame on religion blindly ignores the
evidence [...]"
You see what's being done here? The Israel/Palestine conflict is slyly
presented as some kind of struggle over resources, akin to two wildebeest
fighting at a water-hole. Yet the truth is that Zionists moved into
Palestine with the agenda of removing non-Jews and imposing a system of
Jewish supremacy upon those within the land they grabbed. That is exactly
what they then did, and what they continue to do by force -- and their
principal 'justification' for doing it remains the *quintessentially
religious* idea that their 'God' gave them permission. What is more, the
fact that the whole disgraceful process continues so relentlessly is the
direct result of the *quintessentially religious* problem that the balance
of power in Israeli politics has historically been held by a collection of
delusional religious bigots.
Dawkins has on an earlier occasion described Israel (or perhaps a wider
Middle-Eastern area) as being 'a vast, outdoor lunatic asylum': from any
kind of sane and objective perspective this characterisation has to be
described as entirely justified. And no amount of special pleading on behalf
of entrenched superstitions and ancient irrationalities will make it
otherwise.
Bonf.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	08 Jan 2006 01:38:58 AM

'Bonfire of the Deities...' wrote:

"Tom" <t_j_meunier@yahoo.someth.ng> wrote in message
news:81Pvf.3967$fb4.3819@new

[snip]

Yet the truth is that Zionists moved into
Palestine with the agenda of removing non-Jews and imposing a system of
Jewish supremacy upon those within the land they grabbed. That is exactly
what they then did, and what they continue to do by force -- and their
principal 'justification' for doing it remains the *quintessentially
religious* idea that their 'God' gave them permission.

Ehh...no
The european jews (holocaust survivors) fled to Palestine because:
#1-
There was no way in hell they were going to go back to europe, and who
could blame them.
#2-
The Europeans were pretty glad the Jews wanted "go there" instead of
"come back here".
#3-
Anti colonialism in Palestine was definitely going to flare up in
intensity even worse than it already was thanks to the weakening of the
european colonizers. Having european jews live there would be a damn
good buffer, since dumping the jews there would mean they would have to
displace at least some of the people already living there. The people
getting displaced would be focusing their upset emotions on the new
colonizers instead of the old colonizers.
(I had a boss once who was a Palestinian Jew, and he hated Israelis.
But not the Israelis who came from Europe post ww2. He hated the
Israelis who came from the US post 1960s and beyond).
The "zionist" stuff we are seeing now materialized and solidified after
it was clear that the surrounding middle eastern countries wanted to
wipe israel off the map. In order to survive, Israel needed an
ideology that could support, among many things, territorial,
population, and economic expansion. Conservative, (and for lack of a
better word) "zionist" jews in the US and some from europe would be a
damn good thing, since they had money, education, and a drive to build
up israel into a regional power.
Now, you have someone like sharon who is smart enough to realize that
the ideology in the previous paragraph is not gonna cut it in the long
run, so he took measures to limit it in order to control his enemies,
and divide the extremists from the moderates among the palestinians.
It was a two way thing, preventing Israel from encroaching upon the
muslims (for diplomatic advantages), but at the same time isolating the
muslims from the side effects of Israel's (relatively) superior
economic infrastructure (in order to screw them over in the long run,
and/or make them learn that praying to allah five times a day will not
guarantee an improvement in your country's wellbeing). I hope he pulls
through.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 04:15:46 PM

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 17:31:13 GMT, "'Bonfire of the Deities...'"
<Bonfire@tert.com> wrote:

"Tom" <t_j_meunier@yahoo.someth.ng> wrote in message
news:81Pvf.3967$fb4.3819@new

You see what's being done here? The Israel/Palestine conflict is slyly
presented as some kind of struggle over resources, akin to two wildebeest
fighting at a water-hole. Yet the truth is that Zionists moved into
Palestine

i wasn't aware that the UN was a zionist organization. that is the
organization that established israel.
with the agenda of removing non-Jews and imposing a system of

Jewish supremacy upon those within the land they grabbed. That is exactly
what they then did, and what they continue to do by force -- and their
principal 'justification' for doing it remains the *quintessentially
religious* idea that their 'God' gave them permission.

and today islamists still lay claim to spain which they lost in 1492.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	08 Jan 2006 07:54:50 PM

wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 17:31:13 GMT, "'Bonfire of the Deities...'"
<Bonfire@tert.com> wrote:

i wasn't aware that the UN was a zionist organization. that is the
organization that established israel.

with the agenda of removing non-Jews and imposing a system of

and today islamists still lay claim to spain which they lost in 1492.

So you forgot that Jews and Muslims there were Spanish but were
expelled anyway? Fortunately the expelled Jews and Muslims were given
refuge in North Africa and Turkey.
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	08 Jan 2006 04:35:16 AM

wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 17:31:13 GMT, "'Bonfire of the Deities...'"
<Bonfire@tert.com> wrote:

i wasn't aware that the UN was a zionist organization. that is the
organization that established israel.

with the agenda of removing non-Jews and imposing a system of

and today islamists still lay claim to spain which they lost in 1492.

So you forgot that Jews and Muslims there were Spanish but were
expelled by the Christians? Fortunately the expelled Jews and Muslims
found refuge in North Africa and Turkey.
.

User: "Jack Dominey"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	09 Jan 2006 08:24:07 PM

In <l9f0s1tjud2jahpi9t98jkpkigg0bsmupa@4ax.com>,

wrote:

the truth is that Zionists moved into

Palestine

i wasn't aware that the UN was a zionist organization.

Members of the Zionist movement in Europe and Russia began settlements
in Palestine as early as 1882.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishon_LeZion
--
"I'm gonna act grown up/That's my plan"
Jack Dominey
jack_dominey (at) email (dot) com
R.I.P. Bob Denver
.

User: "Bobby D. Bryant"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 04:40:26 PM

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006,

wrote:

and today islamists still lay claim to spain which they lost in 1492.

Which of course they stole frome someone else half a millennium earlier.
The problem with irredentism (other than the hate and violence it spawns)
is that there's no "magic year" when everyone held exactly the property
that belonged to them, so that everyone would be happy if you rolled
the borders back to where they were at that date.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 11:49:53 PM

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1136633266.340925.143300
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

We shall only grow louder, madam, until our collective voice is raised as
one, fueled by our anger at pissy, mewling religious shitheads who (in
their ignorant arrogance) seek to make all of us in their own image. We
shall render libraries in their churches; we shall kindle the flames of
thought in their children; we shall use their funny clothes on Halloween,
recycle their holy books as paper for cheap porn, re-work their silver
for the drinking of quality beer, and the Pope will be my personal *****-
boy.
He had best find a good 5-gallon bucket and prepare himself, for tonight
I drink.
--
Doc Smartass XP - New Interface, Same Old *****
Keep THOR in THURSDAY!
.

User: "Parsifal"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 09:39:17 AM

*No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
*http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1681002,00.html
Uh... I'm not angry... The only angry ones I see here are the Christian
talibans who are angry at: atheists, democrats, liberals, muslims,
jews, gays, women... Read the postings sent by J Young, Duke or Word of
Truth and you'll see that THEY'RE the angry repressed ones...
.

User: "FiveLongYears"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 05:41:13 AM

Copied from link:
"There's an underlying anxiety that atheist humanism has failed. Over
the 20th century, atheist political regimes racked up an appalling (and
unmatched) record for violence."
Oh really? How many died in the name of religion? lol
"His conclusion is that no children should be exposed to religion until
they are old enough to make a choice; "
OH NO! God forbid you should make a choice when you are informed! (
OK.. That was funny..) "Snag em when they are young, tell them to do
what we say, or they will burn in eternal tourment forever.. That'll
get em!"
FLY
.

User: "Mephisto"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	08 Jan 2006 01:11:29 AM

On 7 Jan 2006 03:27:46 -0800, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:

No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1681002,00.html

Richard Dawkins's latest attack on religion is an intellectually lazy
polemic not worthy of a great scientist

Madeleine Bunting
Saturday January 7, 2006
The Guardian

On Monday, it's Richard Dawkins's turn (yet again) to take up the
cudgels against religious faith in a two-part Channel 4 programme, The
Root of All Evil? His voice is one of the loudest in an increasingly
shrill chorus of atheist humanists; something has got them badly
rattled. They even turned their bitter invective on Narnia. By all
means, let's have a serious debate about religious belief, one of the
most complex and fascinating phenomena on the planet, but the suspicion
is that it's not what this chorus wants. Behind unsubstantiated
assertions, sweeping generalisations and random anecdotal evidence,
there's the unmistakable whiff of panic; they fear religion is on the
march again.

WTF? I know The Guardian tries to present a balanced point of view,
but that article was worthy of the Daily Sport/Weekly World News. I've
never seen so much hypocrisy crammed into a single page in my life,
nor so much wilful ignorance. Atheists believing in ley lines and new
age stuff? Since when was Paganism atheistic? And isn't it only morons
who rely on the 'god of the gaps' fallacy and use those gaps as a
means to reject science out of hand?
I think it's time to send them a rude letter... I can't believe some
idiot paid her good money for that pile of junk.
Mephisto
.

User: "Sanitys little helper"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 05:54:44 AM

On 7 Jan 2006 03:27:46 -0800, maff wrote:

No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1681002,00.html

Richard Dawkins's latest attack on religion is an intellectually lazy
polemic not worthy of a great scientist

Madeleine Bunting
Saturday January 7, 2006
The Guardian

On Monday, it's Richard Dawkins's turn (yet again) to take up the
cudgels against religious faith in a two-part Channel 4 programme, The
Root of All Evil? His voice is one of the loudest in an increasingly
shrill chorus of atheist humanists; something has got them badly
rattled. They even turned their bitter invective on Narnia. By all
means, let's have a serious debate about religious belief, one of the
most complex and fascinating phenomena on the planet, but the suspicion
is that it's not what this chorus wants. Behind unsubstantiated
assertions, sweeping generalisations and random anecdotal evidence,
there's the unmistakable whiff of panic; they fear religion is on the
march again.

Madeleine Bunting
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/a93703b3ac7cc6ef

http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=%22Madeleine+Bunting%22

Richard Dawkins
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/06eabadab5e94250

Atheism
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/b6f6ec8cb25c4495

He uses his authority as a scientist to claim certainty where he himself
knows, all too well, that there is none; for example,
our sense of morality cannot simply be explained as a product
of our genetic struggle for evolutionary advantage.

Actually, it exactly fucking *is*, but it's hardly surprising that Bunting
doesn't accept that.
--
Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we eat, drink and be merry.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.

User: "Matthew Isleb"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 12:52:14 PM

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 03:27:46 -0800, maff wrote:

On Monday, it's Richard Dawkins's turn (yet again) to take up the
cudgels against religious faith in a two-part Channel 4 programme, The
Root of All Evil? His voice is one of the loudest in an increasingly
shrill chorus of atheist humanists; something has got them badly
rattled. They even turned their bitter invective on Narnia. By all
means, let's have a serious debate about religious belief, one of the
most complex and fascinating phenomena on the planet, but the suspicion
is that it's not what this chorus wants. Behind unsubstantiated
assertions, sweeping generalisations and random anecdotal evidence,
there's the unmistakable whiff of panic; they fear religion is on the
march again.

And when religion marches, people get hurt.
-matthew
.

User: "Bonfire of the Deities..."
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 01:10:11 PM

"Matthew Isleb" <misleb@lNO.SPAMonshore.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.07.18.52.13.386424@lNO.SPAMonshore.com...

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 03:27:46 -0800, maff wrote:

And when religion marches, people get hurt.

Yes indeed. The only good religion is a moribund religion. History shows
that whenever religion gains temporal power it turns lethal: only when the
faithful are *weak* are they 'tolerant' and 'peaceful'. Those who believe
that theirs is the only way, and that 'ultimate truth' has been revealed to
them, will kill to create their heavens on earth -- if they are given the
chance...
Bonf.
.

User: "CreateThis"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 01:14:56 PM

'Bonfire of the Deities...' wrote:

... Those who believe
that theirs is the only way, and that 'ultimate truth' has been revealed to
them, will kill to create their heavens on earth -- if they are given the
chance...

Actually, they seem to believe that we must have Hell on Earth if we're
to have Heaven afterward.
CT
.

User: "Scott Richter"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 12:18:34 PM

maff <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:

No wonder atheists are angry

Yes, many are angry. At theists who believe in ancient mythology and
superstitions, and who want to impose their ignorance on others. See
"Dover, PA".
Many are angry. At theists who believe their God commands them to
oppress and terrify their own families and neighbors. See "Taliban
beheads teacher for teaching girls".
Many are angry. At theists who commit heinous acts of violence while
proclaiming "God is Great!" See "World Trade Center"...

Behind unsubstantiated assertions, sweeping generalisations and random
anecdotal evidence, there's the unmistakable whiff of panic; they fear
religion is on the march again.

And we are right to be afraid...
.

User: "Robert J. Kolker"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	07 Jan 2006 06:23:05 AM

maff wrote:

It certainly is on the march from the middle east. Moslem Terrorism
(that is actually one word, by the way) is a daily fact of the in many
parts of the world. The call of Muzzein has been replaced by the
explosion of the car bomb, IED, or suicide bomb. Alla'hu Akbar. Al hamdu
l'illah.
Bob Kolker
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything	09 Jan 2006 06:01:33 AM

maff wrote:

No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1681002,00.html

Richard Dawkins's latest attack on religion is an intellectually lazy
polemic not worthy of a great scientist

Madeleine Bunting
Saturday January 7, 2006
The Guardian

On Monday, it's Richard Dawkins's turn (yet again) to take up the
cudgels against religious faith in a two-part Channel 4 programme, The
Root of All Evil? His voice is one of the loudest in an increasingly
shrill chorus of atheist humanists; something has got them badly
rattled. They even turned their bitter invective on Narnia. By all
means, let's have a serious debate about religious belief, one of the
most complex and fascinating phenomena on the planet, but the suspicion
is that it's not what this chorus wants. Behind unsubstantiated
assertions, sweeping generalisations and random anecdotal evidence,
there's the unmistakable whiff of panic; they fear religion is on the
march again.

Science v religion - time for a truce
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,1682214,00.html
Monday January 9, 2006
The Guardian
In her angry attack on Richard Dawkins' position on organised religion
(No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything,
January 7), Madeleine Bunting falls into the same error as her quarry,
absolutising atheism - which she casually mixes up with secularism - in
much the same way as Dawkins has been known to homogenise faith. She
rightly complains that for some time now Dawkins has been using
religion as a straw man, but then goes on to do exactly the same,
reifying Dawkins' atheism as the only version possible and then
proceeding to slam it.

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No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
Why Are Atheists So Angry?
Party Thread!: So, why are atheists so angry?
Why are Atheists such angry people?
News: The Gods are angry!
Why are atheists always so angry?

Why are "Hard Atheists" often angry, and "Soft Atheists" often nice ?
Re: Why Are Atheists So Angry?
Military Familes Angry At Bush's Lies (re: Why are NeoCons Such Traitors?)
--- Are you folks angry?
Proofs of LORD Almighty GOD: Pastorio died on April Fool's day, diabetic FR remains angry, and satan's sockpuppets are getting trounced.
ARE YOU ANGRY YET?
Bob Pastorio died on April Fool's day and atheists are angry at GOD for this.

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