| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Nomen Nescio" |
| Date: |
28 Mar 2007 06:50:06 PM |
| Object: |
Noah's Flood |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"anno sescentesimo vitae Noe mense
in the year six hundredth of the life of Noah, month
secundo septimodecimo die mensis rupti
second, seventeenth day of the month, were ruptured
sunt omnes fontes abyssi magnae et
to be the whole of the fonts of the abyssal great, and
cataractae caeli apertae sunt et
the cataracts of the sky were opened up to be, and
facta est pluvia super terram quadraginta
was made to be the rain upon the earth for forty
diebus et quadraginta noctibus"
days and forty nights.
--Genesis 7:11-12, editio Vulgata
interlinear translation by DJ Min
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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| User: "Martin Phipps" |
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| Title: Re: Noah's Flood |
29 Mar 2007 09:19:54 AM |
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From http://www.flood-myth.com
General introduction
There are six surviving versions of the Ancient Near East flood story
including the Genesis version. One of these versions, written
centuries before Genesis, is called the Epic of Atrahasis and clearly
describes the flood as a river flood. Later story tellers changed
"river" to "sea" and thus changed the local river flood into an ocean
deluge. The ambiguous word for hills was mistranslated as mountains.
There were several such mistakes or mistranslations during
transmission of Noah's flood story.
Noah's father Lamech was king of the Sumerian city-state Shuruppak, a
commercial center on the Euphrates River in what is now Iraq. Noah
also became king of Shuruppak. The ark was a commercial river barge
for hauling cargo on the Euphrates River. The river barge hauled wine,
beer, stone, lumber, textiles, oil, and livestock which was less than
280 head of cattle, sheep, goats, and other domesticated animals.
There were no kangaroos, giraffes, elephants, lions, etc. on Noah's
cattle barge.
About 2900 BC a freak thunderstorm caused the Euphrates River to rise
15 cubits (22 feet) and it overflowed the levees. By the time Noah
recognized that the levees were about to be breached, it was too late
to evacuate his livestock to highground. He therefore boarded the
nearby river barge to ride out the storm. He had to cut the mooring
lines to prevent barge from heeling over in the rising river. The
runaway barge floated down the Euphrates River into the Persian Gulf
where it grounded in an estuary at the mouth of the river. This is
discussed and described in detail in the Noah's Ark book. Maps in the
book show the route taken by Noah's river barge.
Noah was a wealthy land owner and a merchant or trade official for the
Shuruppak government before becoming king. The flood of 2900 BC did
not destroy Shuruppak. There were thousands of survivors of the flood
and Noah met some of them after the barge grounded. Some of the things
they talked about are quoted in surviving versions of the flood story.
Noah was no longer king and had to flee into exile. A dispute occurred
between Noah and his sons. His family separated and he never saw his
sons again. A map in the book shows where the sons went and the route
they took to get there. Noah got angry with his sons after being seen
naked. The reason why he got angry is explained in the book.
The Noah's Ark book gives the exact location (within a few yards) of
Noah's altar where he offered a sacrifice after the barge grounded. It
is an archaeological site and has already been excavated by
archaeologists. The book describes in detail how the ark was probably
constructed using the technology of 2900 BC. It was much smaller and
shaped differently than it is usually described. The numbers in
Genesis 5 are deciphered in the book and compared with the numbers in
the Sumerian King List. The numbers were mistranslated. Methuselah did
not live to be 969 and Noah did not live to 950. Noah lived to be 83.
Methuselah was 85 when he died a few months after the barge grounded.
The barge did not ground on a mountain. The mountains of Ararat were
mentioned in the original legend, but the ark did not ground there.
How the mountains of Ararat got involved is discussed at length in the
book. After the barge grounded, Noah, his wife, his daughter, and his
boatman traveled to a island where they lived in exile. The island is
a real island and is identified in chapter 5 of the Noah's Ark book.
Noah was an interesting man and several new facts about him are
discussed in the book
Martin
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
|
| Title: Re: Noah's Flood |
30 Mar 2007 02:34:37 AM |
|
|
"Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1175177994.769316.81640@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
From http://www.flood-myth.com
General introduction
There are six surviving versions of the Ancient Near East flood story
including the Genesis version. One of these versions, written
centuries before Genesis, is called the Epic of Atrahasis and clearly
describes the flood as a river flood. Later story tellers changed
"river" to "sea" and thus changed the local river flood into an ocean
deluge. The ambiguous word for hills was mistranslated as mountains.
There were several such mistakes or mistranslations during
transmission of Noah's flood story.
Noah's father Lamech was king of the Sumerian city-state Shuruppak, a
commercial center on the Euphrates River in what is now Iraq. Noah
also became king of Shuruppak. The ark was a commercial river barge
for hauling cargo on the Euphrates River. The river barge hauled wine,
beer, stone, lumber, textiles, oil, and livestock which was less than
280 head of cattle, sheep, goats, and other domesticated animals.
There were no kangaroos, giraffes, elephants, lions, etc. on Noah's
cattle barge.
About 2900 BC a freak thunderstorm caused the Euphrates River to rise
15 cubits (22 feet) and it overflowed the levees. By the time Noah
recognized that the levees were about to be breached, it was too late
to evacuate his livestock to highground. He therefore boarded the
nearby river barge to ride out the storm. He had to cut the mooring
lines to prevent barge from heeling over in the rising river. The
runaway barge floated down the Euphrates River into the Persian Gulf
where it grounded in an estuary at the mouth of the river. This is
discussed and described in detail in the Noah's Ark book. Maps in the
book show the route taken by Noah's river barge.
Noah was a wealthy land owner and a merchant or trade official for the
Shuruppak government before becoming king. The flood of 2900 BC did
not destroy Shuruppak. There were thousands of survivors of the flood
and Noah met some of them after the barge grounded. Some of the things
they talked about are quoted in surviving versions of the flood story.
Noah was no longer king and had to flee into exile. A dispute occurred
between Noah and his sons. His family separated and he never saw his
sons again. A map in the book shows where the sons went and the route
they took to get there. Noah got angry with his sons after being seen
naked. The reason why he got angry is explained in the book.
The Noah's Ark book gives the exact location (within a few yards) of
Noah's altar where he offered a sacrifice after the barge grounded. It
is an archaeological site and has already been excavated by
archaeologists. The book describes in detail how the ark was probably
constructed using the technology of 2900 BC. It was much smaller and
shaped differently than it is usually described. The numbers in
Genesis 5 are deciphered in the book and compared with the numbers in
the Sumerian King List. The numbers were mistranslated. Methuselah did
not live to be 969 and Noah did not live to 950. Noah lived to be 83.
Methuselah was 85 when he died a few months after the barge grounded.
The barge did not ground on a mountain. The mountains of Ararat were
mentioned in the original legend, but the ark did not ground there.
How the mountains of Ararat got involved is discussed at length in the
book. After the barge grounded, Noah, his wife, his daughter, and his
boatman traveled to a island where they lived in exile. The island is
a real island and is identified in chapter 5 of the Noah's Ark book.
Noah was an interesting man and several new facts about him are
discussed in the book
Martin
OK.
I have no doubt the biblical flood did not happen.
Now, do you have ANY valid evidence that these claims are nothing more than
a different fairy tale?
"It says so in the book" is no different than "it says so in the bible".
.
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| User: "Ronald More-More Moshki" |
|
| Title: Re: Noah's Flood |
30 Mar 2007 11:54:53 PM |
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On Mar 30, 3:34 am, "ZenIsWhen" <hereslook...@you.com> wrote:
"Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1175177994.769316.81640@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Fromhttp://www.flood-myth.com
General introduction
There are six surviving versions of the Ancient Near East flood story
including the Genesis version. One of these versions, written
centuries before Genesis, is called the Epic of Atrahasis and clearly
describes the flood as a river flood. Later story tellers changed
"river" to "sea" and thus changed the local river flood into an ocean
deluge. The ambiguous word for hills was mistranslated as mountains.
There were several such mistakes or mistranslations during
transmission of Noah's flood story.
Noah's father Lamech was king of the Sumerian city-state Shuruppak, a
commercial center on the Euphrates River in what is now Iraq. Noah
also became king of Shuruppak. The ark was a commercial river barge
for hauling cargo on the Euphrates River. The river barge hauled wine,
beer, stone, lumber, textiles, oil, and livestock which was less than
280 head of cattle, sheep, goats, and other domesticated animals.
There were no kangaroos, giraffes, elephants, lions, etc. on Noah's
cattle barge.
About 2900 BC a freak thunderstorm caused the Euphrates River to rise
15 cubits (22 feet) and it overflowed the levees. By the time Noah
recognized that the levees were about to be breached, it was too late
to evacuate his livestock to highground. He therefore boarded the
nearby river barge to ride out the storm. He had to cut the mooring
lines to prevent barge from heeling over in the rising river. The
runaway barge floated down the Euphrates River into the Persian Gulf
where it grounded in an estuary at the mouth of the river. This is
discussed and described in detail in the Noah's Ark book. Maps in the
book show the route taken by Noah's river barge.
Noah was a wealthy land owner and a merchant or trade official for the
Shuruppak government before becoming king. The flood of 2900 BC did
not destroy Shuruppak. There were thousands of survivors of the flood
and Noah met some of them after the barge grounded. Some of the things
they talked about are quoted in surviving versions of the flood story.
Noah was no longer king and had to flee into exile. A dispute occurred
between Noah and his sons. His family separated and he never saw his
sons again. A map in the book shows where the sons went and the route
they took to get there. Noah got angry with his sons after being seen
naked. The reason why he got angry is explained in the book.
The Noah's Ark book gives the exact location (within a few yards) of
Noah's altar where he offered a sacrifice after the barge grounded. It
is an archaeological site and has already been excavated by
archaeologists. The book describes in detail how the ark was probably
constructed using the technology of 2900 BC. It was much smaller and
shaped differently than it is usually described. The numbers in
Genesis 5 are deciphered in the book and compared with the numbers in
the Sumerian King List. The numbers were mistranslated. Methuselah did
not live to be 969 and Noah did not live to 950. Noah lived to be 83.
Methuselah was 85 when he died a few months after the barge grounded.
The barge did not ground on a mountain. The mountains of Ararat were
mentioned in the original legend, but the ark did not ground there.
How the mountains of Ararat got involved is discussed at length in the
book. After the barge grounded, Noah, his wife, his daughter, and his
boatman traveled to a island where they lived in exile. The island is
a real island and is identified in chapter 5 of the Noah's Ark book.
Noah was an interesting man and several new facts about him are
discussed in the book
Martin
OK.
I have no doubt the biblical flood did not happen.
Now, do you have ANY valid evidence that these claims are nothing more than
a different fairy tale?
"It says so in the book" is no different than "it says so in the bible".- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But Goddi/Gotti (god) said it, mang.
Vishnu said it before JC, Zeus before Vishy.
Then Alla-Hashpipe came along, claiming to have
been The Man all along.
"Oh, what a rush!"
The Road Warriors
.
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| User: "Martin Phipps" |
|
| Title: Re: Noah's Flood |
30 Mar 2007 11:59:07 PM |
|
|
On Mar 30, 3:34 pm, "ZenIsWhen" <hereslook...@you.com> wrote:
"Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1175177994.769316.81640@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Fromhttp://www.flood-myth.com
General introduction
There are six surviving versions of the Ancient Near East flood story
including the Genesis version. One of these versions, written
centuries before Genesis, is called the Epic of Atrahasis and clearly
describes the flood as a river flood. Later story tellers changed
"river" to "sea" and thus changed the local river flood into an ocean
deluge. The ambiguous word for hills was mistranslated as mountains.
There were several such mistakes or mistranslations during
transmission of Noah's flood story.
Noah's father Lamech was king of the Sumerian city-state Shuruppak, a
commercial center on the Euphrates River in what is now Iraq. Noah
also became king of Shuruppak. The ark was a commercial river barge
for hauling cargo on the Euphrates River. The river barge hauled wine,
beer, stone, lumber, textiles, oil, and livestock which was less than
280 head of cattle, sheep, goats, and other domesticated animals.
There were no kangaroos, giraffes, elephants, lions, etc. on Noah's
cattle barge.
About 2900 BC a freak thunderstorm caused the Euphrates River to rise
15 cubits (22 feet) and it overflowed the levees. By the time Noah
recognized that the levees were about to be breached, it was too late
to evacuate his livestock to highground. He therefore boarded the
nearby river barge to ride out the storm. He had to cut the mooring
lines to prevent barge from heeling over in the rising river. The
runaway barge floated down the Euphrates River into the Persian Gulf
where it grounded in an estuary at the mouth of the river. This is
discussed and described in detail in the Noah's Ark book. Maps in the
book show the route taken by Noah's river barge.
Noah was a wealthy land owner and a merchant or trade official for the
Shuruppak government before becoming king. The flood of 2900 BC did
not destroy Shuruppak. There were thousands of survivors of the flood
and Noah met some of them after the barge grounded. Some of the things
they talked about are quoted in surviving versions of the flood story.
Noah was no longer king and had to flee into exile. A dispute occurred
between Noah and his sons. His family separated and he never saw his
sons again. A map in the book shows where the sons went and the route
they took to get there. Noah got angry with his sons after being seen
naked. The reason why he got angry is explained in the book.
The Noah's Ark book gives the exact location (within a few yards) of
Noah's altar where he offered a sacrifice after the barge grounded. It
is an archaeological site and has already been excavated by
archaeologists. The book describes in detail how the ark was probably
constructed using the technology of 2900 BC. It was much smaller and
shaped differently than it is usually described. The numbers in
Genesis 5 are deciphered in the book and compared with the numbers in
the Sumerian King List. The numbers were mistranslated. Methuselah did
not live to be 969 and Noah did not live to 950. Noah lived to be 83.
Methuselah was 85 when he died a few months after the barge grounded.
The barge did not ground on a mountain. The mountains of Ararat were
mentioned in the original legend, but the ark did not ground there.
How the mountains of Ararat got involved is discussed at length in the
book. After the barge grounded, Noah, his wife, his daughter, and his
boatman traveled to a island where they lived in exile. The island is
a real island and is identified in chapter 5 of the Noah's Ark book.
Noah was an interesting man and several new facts about him are
discussed in the book
Martin
OK.
I have no doubt the biblical flood did not happen.
Now, do you have ANY valid evidence that these claims are nothing more than
a different fairy tale?
"It says so in the book" is no different than "it says so in the bible".
Skeptical view of the flood myth
As skeptics have long been aware, there was no global flood in the
last 5000 years, a boatload of animals did not ground on so-called
Mount Ararat or on any mountain, and the world's animals are not
descended from two or seven pairs of each species that lived during
the third millennium BC. Nor is there any archaeological proof that a
man survived a flood by being on a boat loaded with animals, food, and
drinking water.
The Noah's Ark book summarized here does not claim historicity for
Noah or the ark story, but the book does claim that some of the story
elements in the Ancient Near East flood were based on an actual river
flood. This archaeologically attested flood of the Euphrates River has
been radiocarbon dated to about 2900 BC. This flood left a few feet of
yellow mud in the Sumerian city Shuruppak, the ruins of which have
been found at Tel Fara about 125 miles southeast of Baghdad. Some but
not all Sumerian cities also show signs of this river flood at the
beginning of the Early Dynastic I period. According to the Sumerian
King List, a legendary king named Ziusudra lived in Shuruppak at the
time of the flood. There was also a flood myth about king Ziusudra
which includes several story elements very similar to the Genesis
flood myth. Shuruppak was also the flood hero's city according to the
Epic of Gilgamesh. The flood myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh was adapted
from an earlier myth, the Epic of Atrahasis which is also very similar
to the Genesis flood myth. Six of these Ancient Near East flood myths
contain numerous distinctive story elements that are very similar to
the Genesis flood myth and indicate a literary affinity or dependency
on a common body of myths about the flood hero Ziusudra and based on
the Euphrates River flood of 2900 BC.
Parts of the original myths were physically possible, but other parts
were not possible. The possible parts can be treated as an ancient
legend to which mythical material was added later. However, without
contemporary artifacts, it is not possible to prove how much of the
original legend was true and how much was fiction based on a real
flood. In the Noah's Ark book, the original legend is reconstructed by
piecing together fragments from the various surviving editions of the
flood myth, like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. This reconstruction is
governed by the requirement that each story element in the legend be
physically possible, technologically practical, consistent with
archaeological facts, and plausible for 2900 BC. Some of the
impossible story elements were mistranslations or misunderstandings,
and these are corrected before including them in the reconstructed
legend.
Martin
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
|
| Title: Re: Noah's Flood |
31 Mar 2007 05:14:47 AM |
|
|
"Martin Phipps" <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1175317147.137985.301740@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 30, 3:34 pm, "ZenIsWhen" <hereslook...@you.com> wrote:
"Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1175177994.769316.81640@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Fromhttp://www.flood-myth.com
General introduction
There are six surviving versions of the Ancient Near East flood story
including the Genesis version. One of these versions, written
centuries before Genesis, is called the Epic of Atrahasis and clearly
describes the flood as a river flood. Later story tellers changed
"river" to "sea" and thus changed the local river flood into an ocean
deluge. The ambiguous word for hills was mistranslated as mountains.
There were several such mistakes or mistranslations during
transmission of Noah's flood story.
Noah's father Lamech was king of the Sumerian city-state Shuruppak, a
commercial center on the Euphrates River in what is now Iraq. Noah
also became king of Shuruppak. The ark was a commercial river barge
for hauling cargo on the Euphrates River. The river barge hauled wine,
beer, stone, lumber, textiles, oil, and livestock which was less than
280 head of cattle, sheep, goats, and other domesticated animals.
There were no kangaroos, giraffes, elephants, lions, etc. on Noah's
cattle barge.
About 2900 BC a freak thunderstorm caused the Euphrates River to rise
15 cubits (22 feet) and it overflowed the levees. By the time Noah
recognized that the levees were about to be breached, it was too late
to evacuate his livestock to highground. He therefore boarded the
nearby river barge to ride out the storm. He had to cut the mooring
lines to prevent barge from heeling over in the rising river. The
runaway barge floated down the Euphrates River into the Persian Gulf
where it grounded in an estuary at the mouth of the river. This is
discussed and described in detail in the Noah's Ark book. Maps in the
book show the route taken by Noah's river barge.
Noah was a wealthy land owner and a merchant or trade official for the
Shuruppak government before becoming king. The flood of 2900 BC did
not destroy Shuruppak. There were thousands of survivors of the flood
and Noah met some of them after the barge grounded. Some of the things
they talked about are quoted in surviving versions of the flood story.
Noah was no longer king and had to flee into exile. A dispute occurred
between Noah and his sons. His family separated and he never saw his
sons again. A map in the book shows where the sons went and the route
they took to get there. Noah got angry with his sons after being seen
naked. The reason why he got angry is explained in the book.
The Noah's Ark book gives the exact location (within a few yards) of
Noah's altar where he offered a sacrifice after the barge grounded. It
is an archaeological site and has already been excavated by
archaeologists. The book describes in detail how the ark was probably
constructed using the technology of 2900 BC. It was much smaller and
shaped differently than it is usually described. The numbers in
Genesis 5 are deciphered in the book and compared with the numbers in
the Sumerian King List. The numbers were mistranslated. Methuselah did
not live to be 969 and Noah did not live to 950. Noah lived to be 83.
Methuselah was 85 when he died a few months after the barge grounded.
The barge did not ground on a mountain. The mountains of Ararat were
mentioned in the original legend, but the ark did not ground there.
How the mountains of Ararat got involved is discussed at length in the
book. After the barge grounded, Noah, his wife, his daughter, and his
boatman traveled to a island where they lived in exile. The island is
a real island and is identified in chapter 5 of the Noah's Ark book.
Noah was an interesting man and several new facts about him are
discussed in the book
Martin
OK.
I have no doubt the biblical flood did not happen.
Now, do you have ANY valid evidence that these claims are nothing more
than
a different fairy tale?
"It says so in the book" is no different than "it says so in the bible".
Skeptical view of the flood myth
As skeptics have long been aware, there was no global flood in the
last 5000 years, a boatload of animals did not ground on so-called
Mount Ararat or on any mountain, and the world's animals are not
descended from two or seven pairs of each species that lived during
the third millennium BC. Nor is there any archaeological proof that a
man survived a flood by being on a boat loaded with animals, food, and
drinking water.
The Noah's Ark book summarized here does not claim historicity for
Noah or the ark story, but the book does claim that some of the story
elements in the Ancient Near East flood were based on an actual river
flood. This archaeologically attested flood of the Euphrates River has
been radiocarbon dated to about 2900 BC. This flood left a few feet of
yellow mud in the Sumerian city Shuruppak, the ruins of which have
been found at Tel Fara about 125 miles southeast of Baghdad. Some but
not all Sumerian cities also show signs of this river flood at the
beginning of the Early Dynastic I period. According to the Sumerian
King List, a legendary king named Ziusudra lived in Shuruppak at the
time of the flood. There was also a flood myth about king Ziusudra
which includes several story elements very similar to the Genesis
flood myth. Shuruppak was also the flood hero's city according to the
Epic of Gilgamesh. The flood myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh was adapted
from an earlier myth, the Epic of Atrahasis which is also very similar
to the Genesis flood myth. Six of these Ancient Near East flood myths
contain numerous distinctive story elements that are very similar to
the Genesis flood myth and indicate a literary affinity or dependency
on a common body of myths about the flood hero Ziusudra and based on
the Euphrates River flood of 2900 BC.
Parts of the original myths were physically possible, but other parts
were not possible. The possible parts can be treated as an ancient
legend to which mythical material was added later. However, without
contemporary artifacts, it is not possible to prove how much of the
original legend was true and how much was fiction based on a real
flood. In the Noah's Ark book, the original legend is reconstructed by
piecing together fragments from the various surviving editions of the
flood myth, like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. This reconstruction is
governed by the requirement that each story element in the legend be
physically possible, technologically practical, consistent with
archaeological facts, and plausible for 2900 BC. Some of the
impossible story elements were mistranslations or misunderstandings,
and these are corrected before including them in the reconstructed
legend.
Martin
For your original post - the book made WAY too many claims, and details,
that were impossible to know.
That's what exposed it as a work of fiction.
You should have explained that first.
.
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