| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dave" |
| Date: |
12 Jul 2005 08:21:07 PM |
| Object: |
Not Worthy of Worship? |
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 11:41:12 AM |
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"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121217667.550452.288860@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
I wouldnt worship such an egomanical monster.
Surely a supposedly "higher" being wouldn't need worship at all or does
humility only apply to the "creation"
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| User: "Harry" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 08:28:34 PM |
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"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121217667.550452.288860@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Try again!
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 12:09:15 AM |
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"Harry" <sir67@dudu.com> wrote in message
news:67_Ae.3073$6e3.382562@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121217667.550452.288860@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Try again!
Try what again? It's true.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 11:29:26 PM |
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"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1121217667.550452.288860
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
One would also wonder why such a being would even require worship.
Klazmon.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 05:10:14 PM |
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Llanzlan Klazmon wrote:
"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1121217667.550452.288860
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
One would also wonder why such a being would even require worship.
Perhaps for somewhat the same reason that society requires us to obey a
great many laws, for our own well-being and safety as well as that of
our fellow man.
Klazmon.
Denny
--
"The curse of a godless man can sound more pleasant in God's ears
than the Hallelujah of the pious." - Martin Luther
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 06:37:15 PM |
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dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote in
news:42D59146.17B6B5A3@nospam.net:
Llanzlan Klazmon wrote:
"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1121217667.550452.288860
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God
-- it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would
be submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it
offers me eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My
parents created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
One would also wonder why such a being would even require worship.
Perhaps for somewhat the same reason that society requires us to obey
a great many laws, for our own well-being and safety as well as that
of our fellow man.
That doesn't answer the question it just puts it back a step. If your
answer is valid then the question becomes: "Why does the god require
worship to provide safety and well being?"
Klazmon.
Klazmon.
Denny
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| User: "Abner Mintz" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 11:04:37 PM |
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Llanzlan Klazmon <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote:
That doesn't answer the question it just puts it back a step. If your
answer is valid then the question becomes: "Why does the god require
worship to provide safety and well being?"
Well, you see, if you don't provide him with worship, he'll
endanger your safety and well-being. It's sort of like
how if you pay off a mobster it's also good for your safety
and well-being ... as long as you can keep paying him off.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 05:38:55 PM |
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dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote in
news:42D59146.17B6B5A3@nospam.net:
Llanzlan Klazmon wrote:
"Dave" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1121217667.550452.288860
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God
-- it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would
be submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it
offers me eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My
parents created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
One would also wonder why such a being would even require worship.
Perhaps for somewhat the same reason that society requires us to obey
a great many laws, for our own well-being and safety as well as that
of our fellow man.
That sounds nice but one can objectively demonstrate the benefit of
obedience to the law, and not just in terms of avoiding punishment.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Metaphysics is almost always an attempt to prove
the incredible by an appeal to the unintelligible."
[H.L. Mencken, "Prejudices"]
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| User: "Niels van der Linden" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 11:01:07 PM |
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Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Well, exactly there you have the mono-theist's 'love'. The equivalent of
Jahweh's 'love-me-or-burn-in-hell' is the Christians'
'join-us-or-burn-on-earth'.
You could also turn it around. This mind-virus survival trait:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/religious_tolerance/dt13_13-15.html
...transformed into the same relation the God has with the people.
Check out "The Real Martyrs" (on the left-side):
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/scholars.html
...how awefully ironic is that!?!?!
--
Niels
Atheist #2237
"The thing that saved me was Upanishads; Hinduism. Where you have
practically the same mythology [as Roman Catholicism], but it has been
intellectually interpreted. Say, already in the 9th century BC the Hindus
realized that all the deities are projections of psychological powers and
they are within you not out there [points away]."
-Joseph Campbell in The Hero's Journey
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 05:03:25 PM |
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Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
On the other hand: "...how sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have
a thankless child!" - William Shakespeare
Denny
--
"The curse of a godless man can sound more pleasant in God's ears
than the Hallelujah of the pious." - Martin Luther
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
14 Jul 2005 08:55:11 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
On the other hand: "...how sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have
a thankless child!" - William Shakespeare
Shakespeare's observation could well be valid in our finite world, with
it's finite resources. There is little reason to think it would apply in
the realm of the infinite that is occupied by your supposed deity. As
pointed out to you previously, there is no proportion between the finite
and the infinite. An infinite deity with infinite resources would
experience no cost from any finite expenditure, and no gain from any
finite credit. Also, there is a known hierarchy of infinities. Thus it
could be that even an infinite cost or credit produces no change for
your deity.
Regards,
Josef
There is something feeble and contemptible about a man who cannot
face life without the help of comfortable myths.
-- Bertrand Russell
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
14 Jul 2005 04:27:02 PM |
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:03:25 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
On the other hand: "...how sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have
a thankless child!" - William Shakespeare
And don't forget that a stitch in time saves nine.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
14 Jul 2005 08:42:25 PM |
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thomas p wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:03:25 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
On the other hand: "...how sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have
a thankless child!" - William Shakespeare
And don't forget that a stitch in time saves nine.
"There is no sweeter sound than the crumbling of your fellow man." -
Groucho Marx
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
--
"The curse of a godless man can sound more pleasant in God's ears
than the Hallelujah of the pious." - Martin Luther
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
16 Jul 2005 07:39:48 AM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
....
"There is no sweeter sound than the crumbling of your fellow man." -
Groucho Marx
Since you like Groucho, then here's a quote that will strike a chord
with you:
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have
others."
-- Groucho Marx
Regards,
Josef
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
-- Groucho Marx
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
15 Jul 2005 02:33:31 PM |
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:42:25 -0400, dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net>
wrote:
Yet one more inane quote.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Abner Mintz" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 11:04:38 PM |
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dgillesp <dgillesp@nospam.net> wrote:
On the other hand: "...how sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have
a thankless child!" - William Shakespeare
I have no problem with thanking my parents, as they have
shown themselves worthy of it. If a parent treated his kid
the way your god supposedly treats us, jail would be his
most likely destination - and he'd certainly lose custody.
Hey, maybe that's why God doesn't do anything visible
anymore - maybe he lost custody of the human race and
we're now under the care of an impersonal foster deity
who neglects us, takes the deific power he's paid in and
goes and gambles it away in Olympic City slot machines?
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| User: "fred" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 11:37:22 AM |
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Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
Let's see. We've got an emphasized "no doubt," followed by the
somewhat contradictory and hesitating "clearly might," followed by an
emphasized "not"? You are evidently unsure of yourself, seemingly
afraid to simply say that God is clearly not worthy of worship. I'd be
afraid to say that too.
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 12:13:06 PM |
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"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1121272642.061308.151030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God
-- it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
Let's see. We've got an emphasized "no doubt," followed by the
somewhat contradictory and hesitating "clearly might," followed by an
emphasized "not"? You are evidently unsure of yourself, seemingly
afraid to simply say that God is clearly not worthy of worship. I'd
be afraid to say that too.
I'm not afraid to say it. God as described by Christians, Jews or Muslims
is clearly not worthy of worship.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Metaphysics is almost always an attempt to prove
the incredible by an appeal to the unintelligible."
[H.L. Mencken, "Prejudices"]
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 05:14:58 PM |
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On 13 Jul 2005 09:37:22 -0700, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
Let's see. We've got an emphasized "no doubt," followed by the
somewhat contradictory and hesitating "clearly might," followed by an
emphasized "not"? You are evidently unsure of yourself, seemingly
afraid to simply say that God is clearly not worthy of worship. I'd be
afraid to say that too.
Why? Do you agree that your god is a monster that would punish people
for their honest opinions?
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Topquark" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 11:16:39 PM |
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Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
It's never been clear to me exactly why a God would *want* us to
"worship" him in the first place.
.
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| User: "Niels van der Linden" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 11:38:01 PM |
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Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
It's never been clear to me exactly why a God would *want* us to
"worship" him in the first place.
What do people with power want? More power. Maybe it's the same with gods
(whatever the hell a god might mean)?
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 11:54:05 PM |
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"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in
news:db25r5$mt7$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God
-- it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would
be submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it
offers me eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My
parents created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
It's never been clear to me exactly why a God would *want* us to
"worship" him in the first place.
What do people with power want? More power. Maybe it's the same with
gods (whatever the hell a god might mean)?
Yes but I don't see how a god would obtain more power through being
worshipped by carbon based lifeforms.. In reality it is just projection
of the theists' own desires. Gods always have the exact same views as
those of their believers. I wonder why that is?
Klazmon.
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 10:18:34 PM |
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Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Yes.
I put it like this the existence of "X" and the divinity of "X" are
seperate questions.
I believe that The Roman Emperor Augustus lived.
I believe that he was worshiped as a god.
There is ample evidence for the truth of both of these.
Just like Jupiter he had temples dedicated to his honor and had priest
dedicated to his worship, prayers and sacrifices offered etc.
So he was a god (to someone) AND he existed.
Neither of those facts compels me to worship Augustus as my god.
My coffee mug exists.
I dont worship it as a god.
I dont believe God (or Jupiter) exists.
I know for certain I dont worship it as my god.
The two questions are completely seperate in my mind - and I believe
this is the *sane* way to be.
Mark.
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| User: "The Grim Reaper" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
16 Jul 2005 03:02:16 AM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1121224713.994563.125050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Yes.
I put it like this the existence of "X" and the divinity of "X" are
seperate questions.
I believe that The Roman Emperor Augustus lived.
I believe that he was worshiped as a god.
There is ample evidence for the truth of both of these.
Just like Jupiter he had temples dedicated to his honor and had priest
dedicated to his worship, prayers and sacrifices offered etc.
So he was a god (to someone) AND he existed.
Neither of those facts compels me to worship Augustus as my god.
My coffee mug exists.
I dont worship it as a god.
I dont believe God (or Jupiter) exists.
I know for certain I dont worship it as my god.
The two questions are completely seperate in my mind - and I believe
this is the *sane* way to be.
Mark.
The best advice I can give you, (sane person) is to start worshipping your
coffee mug. Just be careful that you do not break it.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
16 Jul 2005 06:29:27 AM |
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On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 09:02:16 +0100, "The Grim Reaper"
<reaper@reaper.com> wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1121224713.994563.125050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Yes.
I put it like this the existence of "X" and the divinity of "X" are
seperate questions.
I believe that The Roman Emperor Augustus lived.
I believe that he was worshiped as a god.
There is ample evidence for the truth of both of these.
Just like Jupiter he had temples dedicated to his honor and had priest
dedicated to his worship, prayers and sacrifices offered etc.
So he was a god (to someone) AND he existed.
Neither of those facts compels me to worship Augustus as my god.
My coffee mug exists.
I dont worship it as a god.
I dont believe God (or Jupiter) exists.
I know for certain I dont worship it as my god.
The two questions are completely seperate in my mind - and I believe
this is the *sane* way to be.
Mark.
The best advice I can give you, (sane person) is to start worshipping your
coffee mug.
Is that really the best advice you have? That is very odd.
Just be careful that you do not break it.
See, I knew you could do better.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
18 Jul 2005 01:05:38 AM |
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The Grim Reaper wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1121224713.994563.125050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Yes.
I put it like this the existence of "X" and the divinity of "X" are
seperate questions.
I believe that The Roman Emperor Augustus lived.
I believe that he was worshiped as a god.
There is ample evidence for the truth of both of these.
Just like Jupiter he had temples dedicated to his honor and had priest
dedicated to his worship, prayers and sacrifices offered etc.
So he was a god (to someone) AND he existed.
Neither of those facts compels me to worship Augustus as my god.
My coffee mug exists.
I dont worship it as a god.
I dont believe God (or Jupiter) exists.
I know for certain I dont worship it as my god.
The two questions are completely seperate in my mind - and I believe
this is the *sane* way to be.
Mark.
The best advice I can give you, (sane person) is to start worshipping your
coffee mug.
If thats you best advice I am glad you didnt offer me your worst!
Just be careful that you do not break it.
Wow! Two pieces of free advice! Ta!
I respectfully decline (this offer and all future offers) to worship
anything - thanks all the same.
Mark.
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| User: "jw" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
12 Jul 2005 10:30:23 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 12 Jul 2005 20:18:34 -0700, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Yes.
I put it like this the existence of "X" and the divinity of "X" are
seperate questions.
I believe that The Roman Emperor Augustus lived.
I believe that he was worshiped as a god.
There is ample evidence for the truth of both of these.
Just like Jupiter he had temples dedicated to his honor and had priest
dedicated to his worship, prayers and sacrifices offered etc.
So he was a god (to someone) AND he existed.
Neither of those facts compels me to worship Augustus as my god.
My coffee mug exists.
I dont worship it as a god.
I dont believe God (or Jupiter) exists.
I know for certain I dont worship it as my god.
The two questions are completely seperate in my mind - and I believe
this is the *sane* way to be.
For some, perhaps.
Yet you deny the veracity of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people who claim
that they have encountered and experience the Supreme Being.
Your closed mind decides that they are all delusional.
OTOH, in my view, since I have peraonslly experienced God's reality
MANY times, you are the delusional one.
And I continue to wonder why silly atheists continue to post their
garbage to the baptist group, yet you RAIL like sissies when we post
Christian discussion to your silly groups.
!!!!
jw
Mark.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 12:14:16 AM |
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"jw @yoo.hoo>" <jw<no> wrote in message
news:ji29d1dp6bmorm6uvc1gcrl1f5aq5a5g8l@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On 12 Jul 2005 20:18:34 -0700, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Yes.
I put it like this the existence of "X" and the divinity of "X" are
seperate questions.
I believe that The Roman Emperor Augustus lived.
I believe that he was worshiped as a god.
There is ample evidence for the truth of both of these.
Just like Jupiter he had temples dedicated to his honor and had priest
dedicated to his worship, prayers and sacrifices offered etc.
So he was a god (to someone) AND he existed.
Neither of those facts compels me to worship Augustus as my god.
My coffee mug exists.
I dont worship it as a god.
I dont believe God (or Jupiter) exists.
I know for certain I dont worship it as my god.
The two questions are completely seperate in my mind - and I believe
this is the *sane* way to be.
For some, perhaps.
Yet you deny the veracity of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people who claim
that they have encountered and experience the Supreme Being.
What about the hundreds of millions that claim the Supreme Being isn't the
one YOU think it is?
Your closed mind decides that they are all delusional.
If you claim his mind is closed, yours is too by your own standard.
OTOH, in my view, since I have peraonslly experienced God's reality
MANY times, you are the delusional one.
Hundreds of millions have experienced a different god from yours, nitwit.
By your standards, you are claiming that you are delusional.
Well, how about that, I agree.
And I continue to wonder why silly atheists continue to post their
garbage to the baptist group, yet you RAIL like sissies when we post
Christian discussion to your silly groups.
And the silly groups of all the other religions, right? Only YOURS is the
true one. Right?
Arrogant twat.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "jw" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 07:10:29 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:14:16 -0500, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
"jw @yoo.hoo>" <jw<no> wrote in message
news:ji29d1dp6bmorm6uvc1gcrl1f5aq5a5g8l@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On 12 Jul 2005 20:18:34 -0700, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:
Dave wrote:
Even if there was **no doubt** about the existence of a creator-God --
it clearly might **not** be worthy of worship. Shall I worship
something because it threatens me with eternal torment? That would be
submission to thuggery. Shall I worship something because it offers me
eternal happiness? That would be submission to graft. My parents
created me and yet I do not worship them -- I judge them.
Yes.
I put it like this the existence of "X" and the divinity of "X" are
seperate questions.
I believe that The Roman Emperor Augustus lived.
I believe that he was worshiped as a god.
There is ample evidence for the truth of both of these.
Just like Jupiter he had temples dedicated to his honor and had priest
dedicated to his worship, prayers and sacrifices offered etc.
So he was a god (to someone) AND he existed.
Neither of those facts compels me to worship Augustus as my god.
My coffee mug exists.
I dont worship it as a god.
I dont believe God (or Jupiter) exists.
I know for certain I dont worship it as my god.
The two questions are completely seperate in my mind - and I believe
this is the *sane* way to be.
For some, perhaps.
Yet you deny the veracity of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people who claim
that they have encountered and experience the Supreme Being.
What about the hundreds of millions that claim the Supreme Being isn't the
one YOU think it is?
We all have the right to follow our conscience.
But God is just. He has PROMISED that if we seek HIM, we shall find
Him and we shall NOT be disappointed.
Your closed mind decides that they are all delusional.
If you claim his mind is closed, yours is too by your own standard.
You are now indulging circular reasoning.
OTOH, in my view, since I have peraonslly experienced God's reality
MANY times, you are the delusional one.
Hundreds of millions have experienced a different god from yours, nitwit.
AGAIN, genius, you prove nothing. You could choose to create a
religion of worshiping the shoelace of your left shoe, if you choose.
By your standards, you are claiming that you are delusional.
Well, how about that, I agree.
And I continue to wonder why silly atheists continue to post their
garbage to the baptist group, yet you RAIL like sissies when we post
Christian discussion to your silly groups.
And the silly groups of all the other religions, right? Only YOURS is the
true one. Right?
The belief in Christ is the only true faith, correct.
jw
Arrogant twat.
Arrogant? No. Confident in my God? Yes.
jw
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| User: "Bob N. Enweiven" |
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| Title: Re: Not Worthy of Worship? |
13 Jul 2005 09:53:19 AM |
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 05:10:29 -0700, jw <jw<no>@yoo.hoo> wrote:
Your closed mind decides that they are all delusional.
and:
The belief in Christ is the only true faith, correct.
lol
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