| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"RoB WAde" |
| Date: |
15 Nov 2005 10:20:45 PM |
| Object: |
Nothing American about the ACLU! |
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
The American Civil Liberties Union, or ACLU, loves to profess how they
are the staunchest defenders of American freedom. They love to pound
their chests and proclaim that they are the only thing keeping America
from becoming a theocratic nation. Listen to an ACLU attorney and they
will be all too glad to tell you they are busy defending innocents who
are having religion imposed on them. They simply revel in their
rhetoric don't they?
Yes, yes, they sure do love to toot their own horns and build
themselves up as cornerstone of what America is. What a complete load
of crap that is! The ACLU is not defending Americans from having the
religious values of others forced upon them. They certainly are not
defending the values of the Founders of this nation either. As far as
being the brave defenders of the United States Constitution goes, the
ACLU is, instead of preserving America's founding document, doing their
level best to destroy it!
Despite their crowing about how much they revere the Constitution and
freedom of religion, the ACLU actually reveres Socialism and the
banning of religion in America! Now they will be enraged that anyone,
especially a right-winger like me, would dare to question their motives
or methods. Well too bad! The despicable anti-freedom activities and
aims of the ACLU have to be exposed. Moreover, I am one right-winger
who is damned proud to do my part in accomplishing this end!
Let us consider some of the "American" cases the ACLU has pursued, and
continues to pursue shall we? They have defended the North American Man
Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA, a group that endorses sex between
grown men and boys! Is pedophilia a Constitutional right? Seems the
ACLU believes so.
It is the ACLU, which is trying to expose more alleged photos of
American abuses in Iraq. They know this will endanger our soldiers even
more but they do not give a care. They see an opportunity to hurt
America and they will do anything to achieve that goal. Why else would
they be chomping at the bit to offer legal aid to terrorists in
Guantanamo Bay?
The ACLU has devoted much time and energy into destroying the Boy
Scouts of America. They have led their own personal crusade to prevent
the Scouts from assembling on public lands. They have attempted to
force the Scouts to change their policies on Homosexual scout leaders.
Kind of odd isn't it? The ACLU, which is always whining and carping
about religious people imposing their beliefs upon others, is busy
trying to impose their will on the Boy Scouts. Attempting to force
others to believe as they do is nothing new for the ACLU though is it.
They have been doing their best to force the atheistic dogma on America
for years now.
Now they would deny such a charge until their heads fell off, but that
would not change their track record one little bit. The fact is the
ACLU has chosen to target every cross on public land for extinction.
Fact is the ACLU has for a long time tried its best to eradicate every
nativity scene from every courtyard or park in this nation. Let a child
dare to mention God in school and the wolf packs of the ACLU will
attempt to squash his rights to freedom of religion.
The ACLU loves to hate religion, well Christian religion anyway. They
also deeply love to force their hatred upon those who do have religious
values and faith. The ACLU has even taken their hatred as far as trying
to shut down programs that teach abstinence to teens.
Better to have pregnant teens or teens with an STD than to possibly
risk them hearing anything even remotely religious I guess. At least
according to the ACLU anyway. The fact is the Constitution protects the
free exercise of religion in America and forbids Congress from
respecting any religion as the national faith. In no way does the ACLU
defend this principle. Instead, they are undermining our Constitution
by trying to restrict the free exercise of faith.
The ACLU is very adept at using scare tactics and emotionalistic
rhetoric to convince Americans that a prayer before a City Council
meeting or high school football game will destroy the Constitution and
will lead to a theocratic America. In fact, the ACLU is fighting
against religious freedom in this nation. Children do have a right to
pray. Cities and municipalities do have a right to erect manger scenes
and Christmas decorations. The ACLU is actively fighting to eradicate
those rights!
Naturally, the hysterical leftists who foolishly support the ACLU buy
into these lies. Leftists love to see some imagined threat to their
rights at every turn. Criticize anything they say and they go ballistic
and scream their right to speak is being denied them. Mention God in
their presence and their heads spin like some scene from The Exorcist.
Far from being a protection from religious zealotry, the ACLU is, in
fact, the biggest threat to religious liberty in this country. An
understanding of their origins will make very clear why they are so
anti-religion and anti-Constitution. Consider a quote from the founder
of the ACLU Roger Baldwin! "I am for socialism, disarmament, and
ultimately for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social
ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the
sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."
Seems they have not strayed far from their roots does it? No wonder
they are so Hell-bent on destroying religion, that is always the aim of
Communism!
.
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
15 Nov 2005 11:26:48 PM |
|
|
"RoB WAde" <rob_c_wade_1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1132093245.720276.129160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
The American Civil Liberties Union, or ACLU, loves to profess how they
are the staunchest defenders of American freedom. They love to pound
their chests and proclaim that they are the only thing keeping America
from becoming a theocratic nation. Listen to an ACLU attorney and they
will be all too glad to tell you they are busy defending innocents who
are having religion imposed on them. They simply revel in their
rhetoric don't they?
Yes, yes, they sure do love to toot their own horns and build
themselves up as cornerstone of what America is. What a complete load
of crap that is! The ACLU is not defending Americans from having the
religious values of others forced upon them. They certainly are not
defending the values of the Founders of this nation either. As far as
being the brave defenders of the United States Constitution goes, the
ACLU is, instead of preserving America's founding document, doing their
level best to destroy it!
Despite their crowing about how much they revere the Constitution and
freedom of religion, the ACLU actually reveres Socialism and the
banning of religion in America! Now they will be enraged that anyone,
especially a right-winger like me, would dare to question their motives
or methods. Well too bad! The despicable anti-freedom activities and
aims of the ACLU have to be exposed. Moreover, I am one right-winger
who is damned proud to do my part in accomplishing this end!
Let us consider some of the "American" cases the ACLU has pursued, and
continues to pursue shall we? They have defended the North American Man
Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA, a group that endorses sex between
grown men and boys! Is pedophilia a Constitutional right? Seems the
ACLU believes so.
It is the ACLU, which is trying to expose more alleged photos of
American abuses in Iraq. They know this will endanger our soldiers even
more but they do not give a care. They see an opportunity to hurt
America and they will do anything to achieve that goal. Why else would
they be chomping at the bit to offer legal aid to terrorists in
Guantanamo Bay?
The ACLU has devoted much time and energy into destroying the Boy
Scouts of America. They have led their own personal crusade to prevent
the Scouts from assembling on public lands. They have attempted to
force the Scouts to change their policies on Homosexual scout leaders.
Kind of odd isn't it? The ACLU, which is always whining and carping
about religious people imposing their beliefs upon others, is busy
trying to impose their will on the Boy Scouts. Attempting to force
others to believe as they do is nothing new for the ACLU though is it.
They have been doing their best to force the atheistic dogma on America
for years now.
Now they would deny such a charge until their heads fell off, but that
would not change their track record one little bit. The fact is the
ACLU has chosen to target every cross on public land for extinction.
Fact is the ACLU has for a long time tried its best to eradicate every
nativity scene from every courtyard or park in this nation. Let a child
dare to mention God in school and the wolf packs of the ACLU will
attempt to squash his rights to freedom of religion.
The ACLU loves to hate religion, well Christian religion anyway. They
also deeply love to force their hatred upon those who do have religious
values and faith. The ACLU has even taken their hatred as far as trying
to shut down programs that teach abstinence to teens.
Better to have pregnant teens or teens with an STD than to possibly
risk them hearing anything even remotely religious I guess. At least
according to the ACLU anyway. The fact is the Constitution protects the
free exercise of religion in America and forbids Congress from
respecting any religion as the national faith. In no way does the ACLU
defend this principle. Instead, they are undermining our Constitution
by trying to restrict the free exercise of faith.
The ACLU is very adept at using scare tactics and emotionalistic
rhetoric to convince Americans that a prayer before a City Council
meeting or high school football game will destroy the Constitution and
will lead to a theocratic America. In fact, the ACLU is fighting
against religious freedom in this nation. Children do have a right to
pray. Cities and municipalities do have a right to erect manger scenes
and Christmas decorations. The ACLU is actively fighting to eradicate
those rights!
Naturally, the hysterical leftists who foolishly support the ACLU buy
into these lies. Leftists love to see some imagined threat to their
rights at every turn. Criticize anything they say and they go ballistic
and scream their right to speak is being denied them. Mention God in
their presence and their heads spin like some scene from The Exorcist.
Far from being a protection from religious zealotry, the ACLU is, in
fact, the biggest threat to religious liberty in this country. An
understanding of their origins will make very clear why they are so
anti-religion and anti-Constitution. Consider a quote from the founder
of the ACLU Roger Baldwin! "I am for socialism, disarmament, and
ultimately for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social
ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the
sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."
Seems they have not strayed far from their roots does it? No wonder
they are so Hell-bent on destroying religion, that is always the aim of
Communism!
Damn, you christofascists don't live people being free from your
religious indoctrination do you?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
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|
| User: "Peacenik" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 01:56:41 AM |
|
|
"RoB WAde" <rob_c_wade_1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132093245.720276.129160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
The American Civil Liberties Union, or ACLU, loves to profess how they
are the staunchest defenders of American freedom.
That's because they are.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Dean" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 12:43:11 AM |
|
|
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do anything to achieve that goal. Why else would
they be chomping at the bit to offer legal aid to terrorists in
Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they haven't
had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to present evidence
in their defense, they haven't even been told what evidence the state
has for keeping them locked up. Sure, some of them may be terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most egregious
consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU offers legal aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists free.
<snip>
The ACLU loves to hate religion, well Christian religion anyway. They
also deeply love to force their hatred upon those who do have religious
values and faith. The ACLU has even taken their hatred as far as trying
to shut down programs that teach abstinence to teens.
Better to have pregnant teens or teens with an STD than to possibly
risk them hearing anything even remotely religious I guess. At least
according to the ACLU anyway. The fact is the Constitution protects the
free exercise of religion in America and forbids Congress from
respecting any religion as the national faith. In no way does the ACLU
defend this principle. Instead, they are undermining our Constitution
by trying to restrict the free exercise of faith.
I'm no expert on the ACLU, because I'm not a member, but I know my
local civil liberties association (BCCLA, of which I am a member)
doesn't oppose teaching abstinence as a method of birth control or
disease prevention. It DOES, however, oppose programs where that is
presented as the ONLY option and other methods of
contraception/protection are not discussed.
I imagine the ACLU's stance is much the same, because I have heard of
such abstinence-only programs in the bible belt, and ACLU opposition
thereto. I highly doubt that they oppose abstinence as one of several
options.
The ACLU is very adept at using scare tactics and emotionalistic
rhetoric to convince Americans that a prayer before a City Council
meeting or high school football game will destroy the Constitution and
will lead to a theocratic America. In fact, the ACLU is fighting
against religious freedom in this nation. Children do have a right to
pray. Cities and municipalities do have a right to erect manger scenes
and Christmas decorations. The ACLU is actively fighting to eradicate
those rights!
And your rhetoric is not emotionalistic? (Whatever the hell that
means.)
<snip last few paragraphs of "emotionalistic" rhetoric.>
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 01:12:59 AM |
|
|
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do anything to
achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping at the bit to
offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they haven't
had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to present evidence
in their defense, they haven't even been told what evidence the state
has for keeping them locked up. Sure, some of them may be terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most egregious
consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU offers legal aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their cases
have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not legally
entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
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| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 06:21:57 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do anything to
achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping at the bit to
offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they haven't
had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to present evidence
in their defense, they haven't even been told what evidence the state
has for keeping them locked up. Sure, some of them may be terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most egregious
consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU offers legal aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their cases
have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not legally
entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of war?
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the Fifth
Amendment?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 02:01:35 PM |
|
|
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do anything to
achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping at the bit to
offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they haven't
had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to present evidence
in their defense, they haven't even been told what evidence the state
has for keeping them locked up. Sure, some of them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most egregious
consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their cases
have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not legally
entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment of
POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and carry
weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't entitled to POW
treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the Fifth
Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
|
|
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| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 06:49:14 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do anything to
achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping at the bit to
offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they haven't
had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to present evidence
in their defense, they haven't even been told what evidence the state
has for keeping them locked up. Sure, some of them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most egregious
consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their cases
have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not legally
entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment of
POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and carry
weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't entitled to POW
treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the Fifth
Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
Because who aren't civilians, our military or those imprisoned at Gitmo?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 07:32:57 PM |
|
|
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:KaLef.965$q93.470018@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do anything
to achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping at the bit
to offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to
present evidence in their defense, they haven't even been told what
evidence the state has for keeping them locked up. Sure, some of
them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most egregious
consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their
cases have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not
legally entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of
war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment of
POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and carry
weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't entitled to POW
treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the Fifth
Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
Because who aren't civilians, our military or those imprisoned at
Gitmo?
Obviously not our military, and not the prisoners either.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
|
|
|
| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 01:28:54 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:KaLef.965$q93.470018@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do anything
to achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping at the bit
to offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to
present evidence in their defense, they haven't even been told what
evidence the state has for keeping them locked up. Sure, some of
them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most egregious
consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their
cases have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not
legally entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of
war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment of
POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and carry
weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't entitled to POW
treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the Fifth
Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
Because who aren't civilians, our military or those imprisoned at
Gitmo?
Obviously not our military, and not the prisoners either.
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy combatants".
So, how does the Fifth not apply?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 03:39:25 AM |
|
|
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:q1Ref.1222$3o6.498333@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:KaLef.965$q93.470018@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do
anything to achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping
at the bit to offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to
present evidence in their defense, they haven't even been told
what evidence the state has for keeping them locked up. Sure,
some of them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most
egregious consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU
offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their
cases have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not
legally entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of
war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment
of POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and
carry weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't entitled
to POW treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the Fifth
Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
Because who aren't civilians, our military or those imprisoned at
Gitmo?
Obviously not our military, and not the prisoners either.
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are not
accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the end of
hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever comes first.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 06:18:15 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are not
accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the end
of hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever comes
first.
So Fred is happy with people going to prison even though they have not been
accused of a crime.
Brown shirts and yellow armbands are coming back.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 06:25:03 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:HP3ff.17179$q%.7008@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are
not accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the
end of hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever
comes first.
So Fred is happy with people going to prison even though they have not
been accused of a crime.
Note the disingenuous generalization of "enemy combatants" as "people".
Brown shirts and yellow armbands are coming back.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
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| User: "Adam H." |
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| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 06:32:49 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:25:03 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:HP3ff.17179$q%.7008@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are
not accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the
end of hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever
comes first.
So Fred is happy with people going to prison even though they have not
been accused of a crime.
Note the disingenuous generalization of "enemy combatants" as "people".
When did they become non-persons, Fred?
When you said they were?
Brown shirts and yellow armbands are coming back.
He's right, they are. You're demonstrating that kind of thinking
nicely.
---
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today. I was going to name it
‘Republican’, but the fly trap is beneficial to the
environment. I’ll save that name - someday I might find
a plant that eats poor people and minorities.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 08:52:15 PM |
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Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in
news:l5jpn1tovt9ik3v2ap625gu6nq2pvi0qt2@4ax.com:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:25:03 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:HP3ff.17179$q%.7008@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<snip>
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of
people serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are
not accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until
the end of hostilities or until we decide to release them,
whichever comes first.
So Fred is happy with people going to prison even though they have
not been accused of a crime.
Note the disingenuous generalization of "enemy combatants" as
"people".
When did they become non-persons, Fred?
When you said they were?
I didn't say that they're non-persons. They're a particular class of
persons whom we are entitled to hold in detention without trial.
But I'm not at all surprised that you would try to demagogue it that
way.
Brown shirts and yellow armbands are coming back.
He's right, they are. You're demonstrating that kind of thinking
nicely.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
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| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 08:35:01 PM |
|
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Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:q1Ref.1222$3o6.498333@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:KaLef.965$q93.470018@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do
anything to achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping
at the bit to offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to
present evidence in their defense, they haven't even been told
what evidence the state has for keeping them locked up. Sure,
some of them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most
egregious consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU
offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their
cases have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're not
legally entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of
war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment
of POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and
carry weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't entitled
to POW treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the Fifth
Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
Because who aren't civilians, our military or those imprisoned at
Gitmo?
Obviously not our military, and not the prisoners either.
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are not
accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the end of
hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever comes first.
And what constitutes "end of hostilities"? The US has installed governments
in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Also, if the detainees are not prisoners
of war,
then why would they be released upon the end of hostilities?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
17 Nov 2005 09:38:07 PM |
|
|
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:VP5ff.579$xD5.932768@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:q1Ref.1222$3o6.498333@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:KaLef.965$q93.470018@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do
anything to achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping
at the bit to offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to
present evidence in their defense, they haven't even been told
what evidence the state has for keeping them locked up. Sure,
some of them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most
egregious consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU
offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set
terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their
cases have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're
not legally entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of
war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment
of POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and
carry weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't
entitled to POW treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the
Fifth Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
Because who aren't civilians, our military or those imprisoned at
Gitmo?
Obviously not our military, and not the prisoners either.
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are
not accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the
end of hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever
comes first.
And what constitutes "end of hostilities"?
When the fighting is over.
The US has installed governments in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Also,
if the detainees are not prisoners of war, then why would they be
released upon the end of hostilities?
Presumably when their organizations have quit fighting they won't be a
security threat any more.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
|
|
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| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
18 Nov 2005 03:32:00 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:VP5ff.579$xD5.932768@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:q1Ref.1222$3o6.498333@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:KaLef.965$q93.470018@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in news:9eAef.934$q93.429745
@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1132101791.667839.45910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
After deleting excessive cross-posting...
RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Doug Hagin
<snip>
They see an opportunity to hurt America and they will do
anything to achieve that goal. Why else would they be chomping
at the bit to offer legal aid to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay?
Terrorists? How do we know? They haven't been charged, they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been allowed to
present evidence in their defense, they haven't even been told
what evidence the state has for keeping them locked up. Sure,
some of them may be
terrorists,
but to completely circumvent the rule of law is the most
egregious consequence of the Patriot Act. THAT is why the ACLU
offers legal
aid
to the Gitmo prisoners. NOT because they want to set
terrorists
free.
They're prisoners of the military, they're not criminals. Their
cases have been reviewed by "competent tribunals" and they're
not legally entitled to a "day in court" or to habeas corpus.
<...>
If they are prisoners of the military, then are they prisoners of
war?
No, they're illegal combatants. The Geneva Convention on treatment
of POW's requires that they wear distinctive identifying marks and
carry weapons openly. Since they don't do that they aren't
entitled to POW treatment.
Technically, we're entitled to hang the lot of them.
And if not, why does the military get a free pass around the
Fifth Amendment?
Because they're not civilians.
Because who aren't civilians, our military or those imprisoned at
Gitmo?
Obviously not our military, and not the prisoners either.
The Fifth Amendment only mentions our military in the case of people
serving in our armed forces, and it does not exclude "enemy
combatants". So, how does the Fifth not apply?
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are
not accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the
end of hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever
comes first.
And what constitutes "end of hostilities"?
When the fighting is over.
But will we ever quit fighting "terror"?
The US has installed governments in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Also,
if the detainees are not prisoners of war, then why would they be
released upon the end of hostilities?
Presumably when their organizations have quit fighting they won't be a
security threat any more.
Presumably? Is the treatment of "enemy combatants" covered under any
international convention?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
|
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
18 Nov 2005 04:28:58 AM |
|
|
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:QWbff.1326$3o6.621385@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote in
news:VP5ff.579$xD5.932768@twister.southeast.rr.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
<...>
The Fifth deals with people accused of crimes. Those detainees are
not accused of crimes. They're enemy combatants being held until the
end of hostilities or until we decide to release them, whichever
comes first.
And what constitutes "end of hostilities"?
When the fighting is over.
But will we ever quit fighting "terror"?
Maybe. Maybe not. They should have thought of that before they took up
arms against us.
The US has installed governments in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Also,
if the detainees are not prisoners of war, then why would they be
released upon the end of hostilities?
Presumably when their organizations have quit fighting they won't be
a security threat any more.
Presumably? Is the treatment of "enemy combatants" covered under any
international convention?
Yes. Under the Geneva Conventions, we are entitled to execute the lot of
them as spies or saboteurs since they do not fall under the requirements
for legitimate prisoners of war.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
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| User: "William December Starr" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
18 Nov 2005 07:39:38 AM |
|
|
In article <1132093245.720276.129160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"RoB WAde" <rob_c_wade_1@yahoo.com> said:
Yet more raving from crazy people. Go kill yourself, Rob.
--
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com>
.
|
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 06:27:54 AM |
|
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RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
...The ACLU loves to hate religion, well Christian religion anyway...
Compare with "The Jews hate the Aryan master race! Sieg heil!"
By their fruits you shall know them...
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing American about the ACLU! |
16 Nov 2005 03:02:18 PM |
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RoB WAde wrote:
Nothing American about the ACLU!
Yup. There is nothing less American than fighting for the First Amendment.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[W]e have never held that moral disapproval, without any other asserted
state interest, is a sufficient rationale under the Equal Protection
Clause to justify a law that discriminates among groups of persons."
- Sandra Day O`Conner, _Lawrence v Texas_
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-102
.
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