| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Budikka" |
| Date: |
11 Dec 2004 03:30:43 PM |
| Object: |
Novel: The da Vinci Code |
I just finished reading Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code"
(http://tinyurl.com/5ucye) and have to express some disappointment in
it.
Of course, it's based on a complete myth (that there even was a Jesus)
to begin with, but I was willing to allow Brown that, in order to read
a good cryptography mystery, especially one involving medieval history
and the Knights Templar, etc. Maybe I should have picked up a Leslie
Charteris book and read about Simon Templar instead?!
I got a tolerably readable story with potentially interesting if rather
flat characters. Tom Hanks is going to play the main male character in
the movie version to be directed by Ron Howard ("A Beautiful Mind",
"Backdraft"), but I don't think he's the right choice to improve on the
novel. Given his performance in "National Treasure" (itself a farce
but an entertaining one), Nick Cage might have been a better choice.
Sadly, the so-called "cryptography" supposed to protect this secret was
at high-school level, and the ending arrived without so much as a
whimper, let alone a bang.
It was a sad deflation to pretend that the secret (in the novel) was
even worth protecting. Who could possibly care about that? If any of
this were true, it would be a huge joke and an insult to all those
supposedly protecting this supposedly cataclysmic secret - as indeed it
is to da Vinci himself. I actually had a better ending halfway through
the book, thinking that was how Brown would end it. I was quite
disappointed to read the one he came up with.
Not that this business of the "Priory of Sion" hiding this "secret" is
at all rational (hey guys, I got news for you - it's been out for
decades!). But then it's all about the Benjamins - and the Josephs and
the Israels and the Isaiahs, etc., none of which makes any sense and
has only hysterical rather than historical support (rather like the
story of the "English" King Arthur, the round table, Gastonbury, etc.).
The book has done fantastically well for Brown (it's currently #2 on
the NYT best seller list afaik). That begs the question as to how many
of these supposed believers in the USA actually do believe
whole-heartedly in their chosen religion. But then religion has always
been an internal invention, born of a believer's fear and gullibility -
nothing to do with external event or compulsion.
In many ways, "The Da Vinci Code" is somehwat of a translation of the
supposedly factual "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" (http://tinyurl.com/3q53p)
into fiction. I understand that back in 2003 when the book first came
out, Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh who wrote "Holy Blood, Holy
Grail" actually did claim that since the da Vinci book contained so
much information that was also in their book, they felt forced to sue
Random House, I've no idea how that went.
As far as "The Da Vinci Code" goes it's competently written from a
technical point of view, but the plot makes no sense. The story begins
with the murder of the Grand Master of the Priory of Sion and the other
three top people in that society, apparently creating the crisis that
their "huge secret" about the Holy Grail will be lost (what better way
to protect a secret?!).
The story is stretched even at that early point with the farce that
this guy had the time and strength to leave clues dotted around the
Louvre as he was dying! If he'd left them in the loo it would have
been more believable!
The main character Richard Langdon (held over from a previous Dan Brown
novel) is dragged unwillingly into it all at the start. From that
point on, he's thrown into the company of a female cryptologist and the
two of them begin their dash from clue to clue. Most of these seem to
be in France, but it's never quite clear if the character's aim is to
preserve the secret or simply discover it.
There are only a few supposedly cryptic clues scattered through the
book (rather disappointing after all I'd read about it). The act of
trying to maintain a "secret" with such cheesey clues so that it will
never be lost seems rather paradoxical, but then it's another of these
bi-millennial ***** stories like the farcical return of Jesus, which
is 2,000 years overdue. Why did this particular "secret" need to be
kept for so long, especially when everyone and their uncle who is in on
it have supposedly been tossing out random clues to it as fast as they
could throughout the entire time?!!
Anyone else got any input on the book?
Budikka
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| User: "Beth" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
13 Dec 2004 05:08:26 PM |
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**** I've tried to be careful, but there may be minor spoilers ****
On 11 Dec 2004 13:30:43 -0800, "Budikka" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
I just finished reading Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code"
(http://tinyurl.com/5ucye) and have to express some disappointment in
it.
Yeah, me too. Just finished it a few days ago myself, and I was a bit
disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I had a good time reading it, but
after all the hype it got it should have been better.
Of course, it's based on a complete myth (that there even was a Jesus)
to begin with, but I was willing to allow Brown that, in order to read
a good cryptography mystery, especially one involving medieval history
and the Knights Templar, etc. Maybe I should have picked up a Leslie
Charteris book and read about Simon Templar instead?!
Yup, that Jesus thing irked me a bit too, but I try not to get my
frillies in a flutter over stuff like that. There'd be slim pickings
on my reading list if I did.
I got a tolerably readable story with potentially interesting if rather
flat characters. Tom Hanks is going to play the main male character in
the movie version to be directed by Ron Howard ("A Beautiful Mind",
"Backdraft"), but I don't think he's the right choice to improve on the
novel. Given his performance in "National Treasure" (itself a farce
but an entertaining one), Nick Cage might have been a better choice.
One of the morning news shows here in Oz was griping about Tom Hanks
too, but I can't for the life of me remember who they thought would be
better. Mighta been Cage. Anyone else watch Sunrise, and remember who
it was? It was actually that discussion that reminded me I hadn't read
the book yet.
Sadly, the so-called "cryptography" supposed to protect this secret was
at high-school level, and the ending arrived without so much as a
whimper, let alone a bang.
Yeah. I'm no good at that *****, but even I was solving some of them in
less time than it took the characters to do it. And they were a bloody
symbologist and cryptographer, for cryin' out loud, and I'm just a
librarianish type.
It was a sad deflation to pretend that the secret (in the novel) was
even worth protecting. Who could possibly care about that? If any of
this were true, it would be a huge joke and an insult to all those
supposedly protecting this supposedly cataclysmic secret - as indeed it
is to da Vinci himself. I actually had a better ending halfway through
the book, thinking that was how Brown would end it. I was quite
disappointed to read the one he came up with.
Yeah, I kept thinking it wouldn't matter if the secret got out.
Science disproves many aspects of religion all the time, and with more
compelling evidence than the Priory had, but all christers have to do
to counteract it is stick their fingers in their ears and yell
"LALALALALALALALA" as loud as they can, and the problem is solved.
And what was that bit (I'd look it up, but my bf took the book to work
with him) where the one character was saying that most religious
people understand they're not getting the literal truth or something?
Ummmmm. *****. They understand no such thing. And the ones who do
are usually high ranking members of the church who are conning the
sheep.
<snip>
As far as "The Da Vinci Code" goes it's competently written from a
technical point of view, but the plot makes no sense. The story begins
with the murder of the Grand Master of the Priory of Sion and the other
three top people in that society, apparently creating the crisis that
their "huge secret" about the Holy Grail will be lost (what better way
to protect a secret?!).
Really. And considering the ending, did that make you go "What
the...?" too? ;)
The story is stretched even at that early point with the farce that
this guy had the time and strength to leave clues dotted around the
Louvre as he was dying! If he'd left them in the loo it would have
been more believable!
The main character Richard Langdon (held over from a previous Dan Brown
novel) is dragged unwillingly into it all at the start. From that
point on, he's thrown into the company of a female cryptologist and the
two of them begin their dash from clue to clue.
And this seemed to substitute for a whole lot of plot. There was more
chasing clues and riddles than actual story, IMHO. I kept thinking of
Tomb Raider, actually. Solve this riddle, go to next place. Solve that
riddle, continue on to yet another place. Lather, rinse, repeat. And a
few ancient 'revelations" mixed in here and there. Of course, you get
more fireworks at the end of a Tomb Raider game.
Most of these seem to
be in France, but it's never quite clear if the character's aim is to
preserve the secret or simply discover it.
There are only a few supposedly cryptic clues scattered through the
book (rather disappointing after all I'd read about it). The act of
trying to maintain a "secret" with such cheesey clues so that it will
never be lost seems rather paradoxical, but then it's another of these
bi-millennial ***** stories like the farcical return of Jesus, which
is 2,000 years overdue. Why did this particular "secret" need to be
kept for so long, especially when everyone and their uncle who is in on
it have supposedly been tossing out random clues to it as fast as they
could throughout the entire time?!!
Anyone else got any input on the book?
It was all right for what it was, but after all the reviews,
controversy and talk, it was a bit disappointing. I'll probably check
out some of his other stuff in the library sometime, but if this one
was the best he's got to offer, he'll never be at the top of my
reading list.
--
Beth #859
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
13 Dec 2004 08:03:34 PM |
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Beth wrote:
**** I've tried to be careful, but there may be minor spoilers ****
On 11 Dec 2004 13:30:43 -0800, "Budikka" <budikka1@netscape.net>
wrote:
Yup, that Jesus thing irked me a bit too, but I try not to get my
frillies in a flutter over stuff like that. There'd be slim pickings
on my reading list if I did.
I know what you mean! I don't believe there ever was a Jesus, but I'm
willing to pretend there was if someone can make a good story based on
that. Brown just didn't. I expected a lot better story, but felt,
like you, let down by the low-level of "puzzles" to solve and the
pathetic denouement.
I also felt Brown way overdid it trying to play James Burke with all
these supposed "connections" to the Grail and the Templars and so on.
I mean, c'mon, dragging Walt Disney into it?!
I found some rather interesting sites in reading about the story,
although some of these are as biased the one way as Brown is the other:
http://beliefnet.com/story/135/story_13519.html
Some really interesting reads here:
http://www.leaderu.com/focus/davincicode.html
One of the morning news shows here in Oz was griping about Tom Hanks
too, but I can't for the life of me remember who they thought would
be
better. Mighta been Cage. Anyone else watch Sunrise, and remember who
it was? It was actually that discussion that reminded me I hadn't
read
the book yet.
I liked Cage in "National Treasure" - don't know if that's opened in Oz
yet. It's still in the top five in US. I think he'd do fine in the
role, but he doesn't really strike me as the Robert Langdon the novel
portrays. Perhaps someone like Kevin Kline might be better? He's
older and can carry a more sophisticated air.
Yeah. I'm no good at that *****, but even I was solving some of them
in
less time than it took the characters to do it. And they were a
bloody
symbologist and cryptographer, for cryin' out loud, and I'm just a
librarianish type.
Hey, who could be better company than a librarian? Don't run yourself
down! But you're right - the puzzles were pretty cheesey. That was
one of the main reasons I picked the book up in the first place. I'm
glad I only paid 4 dollars for it (and #2 on the best seller list
too!).
Yeah, I kept thinking it wouldn't matter if the secret got out.
Science disproves many aspects of religion all the time, and with
more
compelling evidence than the Priory had, but all christers have to do
to counteract it is stick their fingers in their ears and yell
"LALALALALALALALA" as loud as they can, and the problem is solved.
LoL! The URL above gives some interesting history about the "Priory" -
apparently it wasn't even in existence before 1949 or something like
that so none of those historical characters (like Newton) were ever
involved. The novel was sorely mistitled - I thought it was actually
an insult to da Vinci!
And what was that bit (I'd look it up, but my bf took the book to
work
with him)
I wish I had *his* job!
where the one character was saying that most religious
people understand they're not getting the literal truth or something?
Ummmmm. *****. They understand no such thing. And the ones who do
are usually high ranking members of the church who are conning the
sheep.
I think most religious people actually understand very little - either
that or they keep the blinders tightly closed as you suggest.
Really. And considering the ending, did that make you go "What
the...?" too? ;)
It did! I felt so let down. Like I said, I'd thought of a better
ending - thinking it was how Brown would end it, but instead, it just
fizzled out into nothing at all! I kept asking myself if maybe I
missed some subtle revelation somewhere there towards the end.
And this seemed to substitute for a whole lot of plot. There was more
chasing clues and riddles than actual story, IMHO. I kept thinking of
Tomb Raider, actually. Solve this riddle, go to next place. Solve
that
riddle, continue on to yet another place. Lather, rinse, repeat. And
a
few ancient 'revelations" mixed in here and there. Of course, you get
more fireworks at the end of a Tomb Raider game.
I've never played Tomb Raider. I liked the movies - nice adventure
without too much heavy thinking. Great escapism for a couple of hours.
But you're right: it was hurry up and wait all the way. Then of
course, we're treated to these extensive Grail lectures in the midst of
this supposedly desperate race against time.
It was all right for what it was, but after all the reviews,
controversy and talk, it was a bit disappointing. I'll probably check
out some of his other stuff in the library sometime, but if this one
was the best he's got to offer, he'll never be at the top of my
reading list.
I agree. Like you, I'm curious to read at least one more of Brown's
efforts, but if that's as tame as this one, I won't be reading much
more of his stuff! I can't believe he sold 4.5 million of it. I guess
the reading standards in the US aren't too great. Makes me sorry I
didn't think of doing this first - if it's that easy!
B.
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| User: "Beth" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
14 Dec 2004 04:52:00 PM |
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On 13 Dec 2004 18:03:34 -0800, "Budikka" <budikka1@netscape.net> said
in alt.atheism:
Beth wrote:
I also felt Brown way overdid it trying to play James Burke with all
these supposed "connections" to the Grail and the Templars and so on.
I mean, c'mon, dragging Walt Disney into it?!
I dunno... It IS kinda cool to imagine counter-christian stuff
infiltrating all kinds of things in our everyday lives. Maybe
subliminal suggestion is the way to go... ;)
I found some rather interesting sites in reading about the story,
although some of these are as biased the one way as Brown is the other:
http://beliefnet.com/story/135/story_13519.html
Some really interesting reads here:
http://www.leaderu.com/focus/davincicode.html
Hmm. Interesting reading. I'm amused that they're taking it so
seriously. It IS fiction, after all. ;) Many, many authors base their
novels on historical fact, but people seem to forget that doesn't make
the novels themselves historical fact. But hey, if it gets people off
their arses and into the nonfiction section of the library, it ain't
all bad. (And here I'm being a hypocrite, as I rarely visit the
nonfiction section myself. <blush>)
I liked Cage in "National Treasure" - don't know if that's opened in Oz
yet. It's still in the top five in US. I think he'd do fine in the
role, but he doesn't really strike me as the Robert Langdon the novel
portrays. Perhaps someone like Kevin Kline might be better? He's
older and can carry a more sophisticated air.
Yeah, he'd be better. And he'd do it with wit. Or maybe James Woods? I
definitely don't think Tom Hanks is right tho. But that may be just
because I'm sick of Tom Hanks.
And what was that bit (I'd look it up, but my bf took the book to
work
with him)
I wish I had *his* job!
Are you suuuuuure? He works for the aussie equivalent of the IRS. o.O
It did! I felt so let down. Like I said, I'd thought of a better
ending - thinking it was how Brown would end it, but instead, it just
fizzled out into nothing at all! I kept asking myself if maybe I
missed some subtle revelation somewhere there towards the end.
Ooohhhh! What was your ending?
I've never played Tomb Raider. I liked the movies - nice adventure
without too much heavy thinking. Great escapism for a couple of hours.
But you're right: it was hurry up and wait all the way. Then of
course, we're treated to these extensive Grail lectures in the midst of
this supposedly desperate race against time.
No kidding. IIRC, they fit an awful lot into the hour or so it takes
to fly from Paris to London.
And another thing! How forgiving was Fache? Geez, those French
authorities are lenient. ;)
--
Beth #859
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| User: "BudikkaMAPS" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
14 Dec 2004 10:40:05 PM |
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Beth wrote:
On 13 Dec 2004 18:03:34 -0800, "Budikka" <budikka1@netscape.net> said
in alt.atheism:
Beth wrote:
I also felt Brown way overdid it trying to play James Burke with all
these supposed "connections" to the Grail and the Templars and so
on.
I mean, c'mon, dragging Walt Disney into it?!
I dunno... It IS kinda cool to imagine counter-christian stuff
infiltrating all kinds of things in our everyday lives. Maybe
subliminal suggestion is the way to go... ;)
Always!
I found some rather interesting sites in reading about the story,
although some of these are as biased the one way as Brown is the
other:
http://beliefnet.com/story/135/story_13519.html
Some really interesting reads here:
http://www.leaderu.com/focus/davincicode.html
Hmm. Interesting reading. I'm amused that they're taking it so
seriously. It IS fiction, after all. ;)
Yes, but they're *believers*! They're so insecure they can't even let
a joke like that wax museum thing in London trespass on their turf,
while all the time they're trying to get a foothold on everyone else's
turf. Quite a thing they have going?!
[Robert Langdon in a movie]
Yeah, [Kevin Kline]d be better. And he'd do it with wit. Or maybe
James Woods?
Now that's an idea. I haven't seen him in anything since "Contact"
where he wasn't that great, but I love him as an actor.
I definitely don't think Tom Hanks is right tho. But that may be just
because I'm sick of Tom Hanks.
Now what happened between you and Tom, anyway?!
And what was that bit (I'd look it up, but my bf took the book to
work
with him)
I wish I had *his* job!
Are you suuuuuure? He works for the aussie equivalent of the IRS. o.O
All the better! <evil cackle>
It did! I felt so let down. Like I said, I'd thought of a better
ending - thinking it was how Brown would end it, but instead, it
just
fizzled out into nothing at all! I kept asking myself if maybe I
missed some subtle revelation somewhere there towards the end.
Ooohhhh! What was your ending?
If I told you, I'd have to kill you! And I wouldn't be able to write
my best seller because everyone on Usenet would know the ending.
Actually I'm still not convinced that Brown didn't use it - it's just
that I didn't see it come out anywhere. Maybe I need to read the last
couple of chapters over to be sure?!
What I'd really like to write is a spoof of "The Da Vinci Code" and
also one of the "Left Behind" series.
I was in the bookstore recently looking for other works by Brown and
couldn't find any! Maybe his success with this novel hasn't filtered
backwards to his previous ones. In the end I settled on the first of
the "his dark materials" trilogy by Phillip Pullman. I;ve heard good
and controversial things about that!
I've never played Tomb Raider. I liked the movies - nice adventure
without too much heavy thinking. Great escapism for a couple of
hours.
But you're right: it was hurry up and wait all the way. Then of
course, we're treated to these extensive Grail lectures in the midst
of
this supposedly desperate race against time.
No kidding. IIRC, they fit an awful lot into the hour or so it takes
to fly from Paris to London.
LoL! Maybe it was a real slow plane! I actually did like the way they
managed to land that plane and get everyone out without the local
police being able to arrest anyone. I thought that was pretty neat
writing, but that's about the best bit in the whole book, I think.
And another thing! How forgiving was Fache? Geez, those French
authorities are lenient. ;)
Especially when he was such a tyrant in the first 80 chapters!
B.
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| User: "Beth" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
15 Dec 2004 08:00:12 PM |
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On 14 Dec 2004 20:40:05 -0800, "BudikkaMAPS" <budikka1@netscape.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Now what happened between you and Tom, anyway?!
The fawning media happened between me and Tom. I mean, c'mon, he's all
right but he's not THAT great. Geez.
What I'd really like to write is a spoof of "The Da Vinci Code" and
also one of the "Left Behind" series.
Oh, I'd love to see a spoof of "Left Behind." When I worked for a
library services company in the states, those books crossed my desk
almost on a daily basis. God, what a nauseating bunch of drivel. It
never failed to amaze me that such utter crap could take itself so
seriously, and worse, that such a large chunk of the public could
apparently take it seriously. The first series - the adult one - was
bad enough, but the young adult series was beyond ridiculous.
I was in the bookstore recently looking for other works by Brown and
couldn't find any! Maybe his success with this novel hasn't filtered
backwards to his previous ones.
There're plenty here. The local Myer (aussie department store similar
to Sears or J.C. Penny) has had a display of his books up for months.
Have you got a Waldenbooks (assuming you're in the US) nearby? They
seem to keep a decent selection around, and not just the most recent
best sellers.
LoL! Maybe it was a real slow plane! I actually did like the way they
managed to land that plane and get everyone out without the local
police being able to arrest anyone. I thought that was pretty neat
writing, but that's about the best bit in the whole book, I think.
Yeah, that was a nifty trick, but it wasn't very flattering to the
Kent police. ;)
--
Beth #859
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| User: "BudikkaMAPS" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
16 Dec 2004 07:34:49 PM |
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Beth wrote:
On 14 Dec 2004 20:40:05 -0800, "BudikkaMAPS" <budikka1@netscape.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Now what happened between you and Tom, anyway?!
The fawning media happened between me and Tom.
I mean, c'mon, he's all
right but he's not THAT great. Geez.
LoL! I agree. I liked him in "Saving Private Ryan", and I thought he
was cute in "Big", but apart from that I can't really think of anything
he's been in that I feel compelled to see again. He reminds me of
Harrison Ford, oddly enough - he doesn't seem to have a lot of range.
Oh, I'd love to see a spoof of "Left Behind." When I worked for a
library services company in the states, those books crossed my desk
almost on a daily basis. God, what a nauseating bunch of drivel. It
never failed to amaze me that such utter crap could take itself so
seriously, and worse, that such a large chunk of the public could
apparently take it seriously. The first series - the adult one - was
bad enough, but the young adult series was beyond ridiculous.
I can see you've read them all ;) I actually bought the first one
(used paperback, so there!) with the idea of writing a short, episodic
spoof and posting it periodically in a.a., but I haven't had the time.
I haven't even read that one yet. It seems eerily similar to a short
story by Stephen King - at least in the start. I wonder who thought of
it first?
There're plenty here. The local Myer (aussie department store similar
to Sears or J.C. Penny) has had a display of his books up for months.
Have you got a Waldenbooks (assuming you're in the US) nearby? They
seem to keep a decent selection around, and not just the most recent
best sellers.
I haven't looked in the new bookstores yet. I tend to buy a lot from
this half-price/discount store close by where I work. I may go there
if I get desperate to read some more of his, but I have so much on my
reading list I doubt I'll get to it for a while!
B.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
13 Dec 2004 05:12:26 PM |
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Budikka wrote:
I just finished reading Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code"
(http://tinyurl.com/5ucye) and have to express some disappointment in
it.
Agreed, I think I will wait until the movie comes out so I dont have to
waste my time reading it.
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
13 Dec 2004 06:20:31 PM |
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In article <1102800643.052738.124540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Budikka <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:
Anyone else got any input on the book?
Budikka
Check this out: http://www.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/templar.htm
Lots of other stuff about Oak Island out there. The connection with the
Knights Templar is particularly intriguing to me.
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
(email: change out to in)
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| User: "Budikka" |
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| Title: Re: Novel: The da Vinci Code |
13 Dec 2004 06:38:58 PM |
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I read about Oak Island a long time ago. Seems to me there should be
an interesting movie about that to be made, but there's nothing to the
story from what I've read.
Budikka
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