| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
09 May 2005 06:28:16 AM |
| Object: |
Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
OH, THE IRONY
I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
***********************
THE IRONY OF THIS WOULD BE TOTALLY LOST ON THE FOLKS
BELOW:
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent. As I have mentioned
elsewhere, we are not merely dealing with one or two pieces of evidence
pointing in this direction that can easily be dismissed as unduly alarmist,
we are dealing with the convergence of a great deal of disparate pieces of
evidence - all pointing in the sawm direction - that cannot be so easily
dismissed.
STATEMENT BY RALPH G. NEAS, PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY FOUNDATION
Following the report that nine members of the East Waynesville Baptist
Church in western North Carolina were excommunicated because they did not
support President Bush in the election, Ralph G. Neas, President of People
For the American Way Foundation, had the following statement:
“What have we come to when the doors of a church are closed to longtime
members because of their political beliefs? When a pastor equates political
support for the ‘wrong’ candidate with a sin before God?
“I would say to Senator Frist and Karl Rove that this is what comes of
attempts to manipulate religion for political gain. Americans simply will
not accept the claim that ‘unless you accept my political beliefs, you
cannot be a good Christian.’
“This nation was founded on respect for religious belief, and tolerance for
religious diversity. Men and women of faith have every right to advocate
for their political beliefs. While churches, of course, can set their own
membership standards, no one should punish people of faith for their
political beliefs.
“This is terribly sad. I urge the President to express his opposition to
all attempts to manipulate faith for political gain.”
****************
http://www.nytimes.com/a ponline/national/AP-Church-Politics.html
?pagewanted=print
May 7, 2005
Democrats Voted Out of Baptist Church
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:51 a.m. ET
WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (AP) -- Some in Pastor Chan Chandler's flock wish he had
a little less zeal for the GOP. Members of the small East Waynesville
Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who
didn't support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday
church meeting in this mountain town, about 120 miles west of Charlotte.
''He's the kind of pastor who says do it my way or get out,'' said Selma
Morris, the former church treasurer. ''He's real negative all the time.''
Chandler didn't return a message left by The Associated Press at his home
Friday, and several calls to the church went unanswered. He told WLOS-TV in
Asheville that the actions were not politically motivated.
The station also reported that 40 others in the 400-member congregation
resigned in protest after Monday's vote.
During the presidential election last year, Chandler told the congregation
that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry should
either leave the church or repent, said former member Lorene Sutton.
Some church members left after Chandler made his ultimatum in October,
Morris said.
George Bullard, associate executive director-treasurer for Baptist State
Convention of North Carolina, told the Asheville Citizen-Times that a
pastor has every right to disallow memberships if a church's bylaws allow
for the pastor to establish criteria for membership.
''Membership is a local church issue,'' he said. ''It is not something the
state convention would enter into.''
He added that the nine members were not legally terminated because Monday's
meeting was supposed to be a deacons meeting, not a business meeting. They
have a lawyer looking into the situation, he said.
The head of the North Carolina Democratic Party sharply criticized the
pastor Friday, saying Chandler jeopardized his church's tax-free status by
openly supporting a candidate for president.
''If these reports are true, this minister is not only acting extremely
inappropriately by injecting partisan politics into a house of worship, but
he is also potentially breaking the law,'' Chairman Jerry Meek said.
Doris Wilson, one of Chandler's neighbors and a member of First Baptist
Church in Waynesville, said God doesn't play partisan politics.
''I hate to see the church suffer like that,'' she said. ''God doesn't care
whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. It just hurts to see that going
on.''
http://www.nytimes.com/a ponline/national/AP-Church-Politics.html
?pagewanted=print
May 8, 2005
Pastor Says Ouster a Misunderstanding
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 11:59 a.m. ET
WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (AP) -- A pastor who led a charge to kick out nine church
members who refused to support President Bush said Sunday it was all a
misunderstanding, as some of the congregants who said they were ousted
showed up for church anyway.
Members of the tiny East Waynesville Baptist Church said the Rev. Chan
Chandler told them during last year's presidential campaign that anyone who
planned to vote for Democratic nominee John Kerry needed to leave the
church.
This past week, his comments turned to politics again at a church gathering
that ended with nine members voted out. After the vote, other members
reportedly left the church in protest.
Chandler said before Sunday's service that he wouldn't preach about the
controversy, but he called it ''a great misunderstanding.''
Several members who said they had been kicked out went to services Sunday,
as did lawyers for the pastor and the ousted members.
Chandler said he and his wife have received calls from around the nation --
some of them threatening -- since his politics in the pulpit made national
news.
His actions also drew criticism from other Baptist clergymen in this town
about 125 miles northwest of Charlotte.
''This is very disturbing,'' the Rev. Robert Prince III, who leads the
congregation at the nearby First Baptist Church, said Saturday. ''I've been
a pastor for more than 25 years, and I have never seen church members voted
out for something like this.''
****************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v.
Eisner,256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes,
J.).Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir.
1992)
*****************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.co m/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
.
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| User: "Eric Freeman" |
|
| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
21 May 2005 06:55:18 PM |
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<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order the
people excommunicated?
Eric
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
22 May 2005 03:03:40 AM |
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On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:55:18 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order the
people excommunicated?
Eric
Now, I'll type this v e r y s l o w l y s o t h a t
e v e n y o u c a n h a v e a c h a n c e a t
r e a d i n g i t :
" . . . a n d i t s r e l i g i o u s
f a r - r i g h t a l l i e s . . . "
There, now is everything all better?
The English language is your friend.
If you treat it nicely, it'll treat you nicely.
Are you being "special" with MarsIQ33?
Gray Shockley
---------------------------------------
President George W C Bush's business professor at
Harvard Business School, Professor Yoshi Tsurumi, recalls
our President as "not just as a terrible student but as
spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar".
.
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
21 May 2005 07:46:26 PM |
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On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:55:18 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order the
people excommunicated?
Eric
It's people like this that are the foundation of Bush's support base.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://curlysurmudgeon.com/weird/political/blinders.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Eric Freeman" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
22 May 2005 07:55:55 AM |
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"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:118vlj1lh0nfj98@corp.supernews.com...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:55:18 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying
totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order
the
people excommunicated?
Eric
It's people like this that are the foundation of Bush's support base.
Bush's support base is full of people who think he should be hanged for
treason??? I doubt it.
Eric
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
22 May 2005 01:43:30 PM |
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On Sun, 22 May 2005 07:55:55 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:118vlj1lh0nfj98@corp.supernews.com...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:55:18 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying
totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order
the
people excommunicated?
Eric
It's people like this that are the foundation of Bush's support base.
Bush's support base is full of people who think he should be hanged for
treason??? I doubt it.
Eric
No, sorry Eric. I was referring to the church, preacher, and congregation
being discussed, not you.
My apologies for being less than clear.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://curlysurmudgeon.com/weird/political/blinders.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Eric Freeman" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
23 May 2005 06:23:39 AM |
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"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:1191kman38enlfc@corp.supernews.com...
On Sun, 22 May 2005 07:55:55 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:118vlj1lh0nfj98@corp.supernews.com...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:55:18 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that
the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying
totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order
the
people excommunicated?
Eric
It's people like this that are the foundation of Bush's support base.
Bush's support base is full of people who think he should be hanged for
treason??? I doubt it.
Eric
No, sorry Eric. I was referring to the church, preacher, and congregation
being discussed, not you.
My apologies for being less than clear.
Oh... ok. I suppose there are religious fanatics in both parties. Altho,
if a person thinks it's a sin to vote Democrat, I don't know how they can't
also think it's a sin to vote Republican... there's really not much
difference between the two.
Eric
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
22 May 2005 02:31:07 AM |
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On Sat, 21 May 2005 19:46:26 -0500, Curly Surmudgeon wrote
On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:55:18 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order the
people excommunicated?
Eric
It's people like this that are the foundation of Bush's support base.
I wonder if there could be heard the sounds
of crystal shattering? / gray /
[What's a vulgar, four-letter word for "really stupid"?]
g
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://curlysurmudgeon.com/weird/political/blinders.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
22 May 2005 06:55:51 PM |
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On Sun, 22 May 2005 02:31:07 -0500, Gray Shockley wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2005 19:46:26 -0500, Curly Surmudgeon wrote
On Sat, 21 May 2005 18:55:18 -0500, Eric Freeman wrote:
<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:v9iu71957c22nnr2q4ed0kco34llhgfjcu@4ax.com...
church excommunicates democrats
http://dailykos.com/stor y/2005/5/5/211218/4946
******************
This of course marks exhibit 1,098,672 that supports the charge that the
Bush administration and its religious far-right allies are all about
crushing all freedom of conscience and imposing a stultifying totalitarian
theocracy that tolerates absolutely no dissent.
What does this have to do with the Bush administration? Did Bush order the
people excommunicated?
Eric
It's people like this that are the foundation of Bush's support base.
I wonder if there could be heard the sounds
of crystal shattering? / gray /
[What's a vulgar, four-letter word for "really stupid"?]
g
dull, dopy, slow, dolt, dumb, dodo, slug...
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://curlysurmudgeon.com/weird/political/blinders.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
22 May 2005 02:22:13 PM |
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wrote:
OH, THE IRONY
..
''Membership is a local church issue,'' he said. ''It is not
something the
state convention would enter into.''
Membership was not what GOD intended for HIS Church.
Be suspiscious about any organization claiming to be a Church
while requiring membership.
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
10 May 2005 06:02:09 PM |
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Since when did Protestants excomunicate anyone?
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
10 May 2005 11:21:36 PM |
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Fester wrote:
Since when did Protestants excomunicate anyone?
Since day one. You could even be executed for heresy.
Check out Calvin and Michael Servetus.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
10 May 2005 09:07:26 PM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:02:09 +0000, Fester wrote:
Since when did Protestants excomunicate anyone?
As early as the 1680's. Perhaps before the witch-burnings.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://curlysurmudgeon.com/weird/political
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
10 May 2005 09:22:47 PM |
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"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.11.02.07.20.300495@curlysurmudgeon.com...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:02:09 +0000, Fester wrote:
Since when did Protestants excomunicate anyone?
As early as the 1680's. Perhaps before the witch-burnings.
I thought exommunication was just a Catholic thing.
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: Oh the Irony: church excommunicates democrats |
10 May 2005 11:41:48 PM |
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Fester wrote:
"Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.11.02.07.20.300495@curlysurmudgeon.com...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:02:09 +0000, Fester wrote:
Since when did Protestants excomunicate anyone?
As early as the 1680's. Perhaps before the witch-burnings.
I thought exommunication was just a Catholic thing.
No, it was originally Jewish. (See Spinoza)
The early church picked it up and both Catholics and
Eastern churches practiced it.
Anabaptists practiced it as far back as 1527.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
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