| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Western World" |
| Date: |
16 Aug 2005 11:24:43 PM |
| Object: |
On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
After the USSC ruling I posted a shorter essay. I have expanded it 3X in
this version:
http://community-2.webtv.net/tales_of_the_western_world/TENCOMMANDMENTS/
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| User: "Nog" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
18 Aug 2005 09:06:57 AM |
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Amerian law and the 10 commandments were based on laws LONG BEFORE the 10
commandments were written.
Christians did not invent good will to man!
"Western World" <Tales_of_the_Western_World@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3316-4302BC0B-143@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net...
After the USSC ruling I posted a shorter essay. I have expanded it 3X in
this version:
http://community-2.webtv.net/tales_of_the_western_world/TENCOMMANDMENTS/
.
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| User: "IBen Getiner" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
16 Aug 2005 11:51:20 PM |
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THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN STATE
OF UNBELIEF.
3: THOU SHALT OFFEND GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO WHATEVER DEGREE
THAT MAY BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO PLEASE THY OWN TASTE
4: REMEMBER... NOTHING IS HOLY. LIKEWISE, CONCEPTS OF HUMBLENESS,
HONOR, SHAME AND REPENTANCE SHALL IN NO WAY BE REQUIRED
5: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WHEN DISRESPECTING THE VALUES AND
TEACHINGS OF THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. HOW MUCH WISDOM MIGHT THEY
POSSESS, THEM BEING OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAITH?
6: THOU SHALT DO THY BEST TO KEEP A VICIOUS CONVICTED MURDERER FROM
HIS APPOINTED DATE WITH STATE-SPONSORED JUSTICE, WHILE AT THE SAME
TIME COLDLY DESTROYING INNOCENTS WHO SLUMBER IN THE WOMB
7: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WITH TRIVIALITIES SUCH AS ADULTERY
(AFTER ALL... IT'S NOT ILLEGAL). IF THY UNDERSTANDTH NOT THIS PRECEPT,
TAKE YE HEED OF COMMANDMENT #4
8: THOU SHALT NOT USE THE WORD 'STEAL'. HENCEFORTH, THOU SHALT
UNDERSTANDTH THIS ACT AS... "TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED... FROM EACH
ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY"
9: THOU SHALT SPIN A LIE TO A FEDERAL JUDGE IF IT IS SO REQUIRED IN
KEEPING THYSELF OUT OF THE STEW. EVEN IF IT IS THINE OWN RECIPE TO
START WITH
10: THOU SHALT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S MANSERVANT IF THOU ART MALE AND
HIS MAIDSERVANT IF THOU ART FEMALE, AND IN NO WAY SHALT THY BE ASHAMED
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
17 Aug 2005 12:28:36 AM |
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IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right. It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN STATE
OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
5: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WHEN DISRESPECTING THE VALUES AND
TEACHINGS OF THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. HOW MUCH WISDOM MIGHT THEY
POSSESS, THEM BEING OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAITH?
Your says that we shoud honor our parents and that if we do we get a long
life and propertty given to us.
Therefore anybody who dies youg or without property did not honor their
parents.
6: THOU SHALT DO THY BEST TO KEEP A VICIOUS CONVICTED MURDERER FROM
HIS APPOINTED DATE WITH STATE-SPONSORED JUSTICE, WHILE AT THE SAME
TIME COLDLY DESTROYING INNOCENTS WHO SLUMBER IN THE WOMB
For you the right to lifer ends at birth.
8: THOU SHALT NOT USE THE WORD 'STEAL'. HENCEFORTH, THOU SHALT
UNDERSTANDTH THIS ACT AS... "TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED... FROM
EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY"
You really should study your bible more. Then read about the peasaants
revolt.
Have you given up everything to follow your christ?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
17 Aug 2005 05:16:12 AM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right.
It's okay. I knew it would get under somebody's skin. That's why I
posted it.
<But why, oh why Lord, did I have to hook a moron...?>
It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
But you see yourself as your own god. And you know it.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN STATE
OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
Wrong again. You worship the creation. Not the Creator. And you know
that too.
<#3 snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
3: THOU SHALT OFFEND GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO WHATEVER DEGREE
THAT MAY BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO PLEASE THY OWN TASTE
I posted it. You clipped it out with no rebuttal. In so doing, you do
realize that you capitulated the point...? Good! At least we agree on
something.. But it makes you look reeeeeal bad. Selfishness to the
bitter end. You're nothing more than a sociopathic cockroach, Mick. But
you know that very well too, I'm quite sure. Most sociopaths do.
What gets me is that you actually thought that by snipping them out,
we would simply bypass these particular issues without drawing any
further attention to them (like they're just gonna go away). Typical
low life leftist cockroach... You spend all your evil fuckin' lives
scurrying around in the shadows pretending that the lite of day does
not exist. But it does, Mick. It does... You see, it's very simple...
If you disagreed with them, you would have at least used them to
insulted me with! LOL...!! Transparent corrupt little *****...
<snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
4: REMEMBER... NOTHING IS HOLY. LIKEWISE, CONCEPTS OF HUMBLENESS,
HONOR, SHAME AND REPENTANCE SHALL IN NO WAY BE REQUIRED
IOW: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE. You are your own gods,
therefore there is no absolute right or wrong in your world.
See....? I started just fine.. The proof lies in the fact that you
swept it under the carpet and you had nothing to say against it. Right
Mick...?! LOL...!!!!
5: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WHEN DISRESPECTING THE VALUES AND
TEACHINGS OF THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. HOW MUCH WISDOM MIGHT THEY
POSSESS, THEM BEING OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAITH?
Your says that we shoud honor our parents and that if we do we get a long
life and propertty given to us.
Therefore anybody who dies youg or without property did not honor their
parents.
That, among other things.. More than likely. How can you prove
different? You might think you know a person very well, but you do not
hold the keys to that secret place deep within their hearts. You just
THINK you do. That's because you're an arrogant pious jerk-off,
Mick...! Only God knows the condition of the human heart, and every
secret thought that has been collected therein! Each and every one that
lives or has ever lived. Yours included.
6: THOU SHALT DO THY BEST TO KEEP A VICIOUS CONVICTED MURDERER FROM
HIS APPOINTED DATE WITH STATE-SPONSORED JUSTICE, WHILE AT THE SAME
TIME COLDLY DESTROYING INNOCENTS WHO SLUMBER IN THE WOMB
For you the right to lifer ends at birth.
Yes, yes, yes... I've heard it all before. "For mankind, once lost,
will in the glories of sin, find itself again".
Iz that the kind of 'life' you're talking about, Mick..? The 'do your
own thing' kinda life? Your father, the devil.. that's his line. "Do as
thou wilt".
Go back into the shadows where you belong, you filthy valueless vermin
scum. This world was already ruined because of vermin scum like you
long before you were even born. But the next one will be quite safe
from this one's fate. Or so I'm told.
http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/mattinhell.gif
Kewl...!! Kan't wait to see you all burn!!
<snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
7: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WITH TRIVIALITIES SUCH AS ADULTERY
(AFTER ALL... IT'S NOT ILLEGAL). IF THY UNDERSTANDTH NOT THIS PRECEPT,
TAKE YE HEED OF COMMANDMENT #4
Opps... You SNIPPED this one away too. Waddayaknow 'bout datt...? But
take comfort, Mick... I am here to shine the LITE back on for us.
I take it that by snipping #7 away from <what you hoped would be> the
public conscience, you agree! Fine! You see absolutely nothing wrong
then with helping to destroy marriages.. You like sowing the seeds of
emotional death and dismemberment into families, do you, Mick...? But
after all, why not? You agreed with # 4, too..
8: THOU SHALT NOT USE THE WORD 'STEAL'. HENCEFORTH, THOU SHALT
UNDERSTANDTH THIS ACT AS... "TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED... FROM
EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY"
You really should study your bible more. Then read about the peasaants
revolt.
It would help in your own studies if you would first learn to SPELL IT.
Have you given up everything to follow your christ?
I do everything I am asked :)
But alas... What has happened to #9 & #10...?? They're nowhere to be
found... Guess I'll have to re-paste them too.. No problem.
<snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
9: THOU SHALT SPIN A LIE TO A FEDERAL JUDGE IF IT IS SO REQUIRED IN
KEEPING THYSELF OUT OF THE STEW. EVEN IF IT IS THINE OWN RECIPE TO
START WITH
I think we can all understand why you didn't want to touch on this one.
Sortuv hit the nail on the head, didn't I, Mickey...?! You're just like
him... AIN'T YA...??! LOL...!!! What a riot! A bald-faced hypocrite
honoring his hero, the straight faced liar!
10: THOU SHALT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S MANSERVANT IF THOU ART MALE AND
HIS MAIDSERVANT IF THOU ART FEMALE, AND IN NO WAY SHALT THY BE ASHAMED
And you iz one of them, too... AIN'T YA...??? LOL..!!! That or you see
nothing wrong with what they do.
But it all be kool, Michael my boy. It all be kool... Go on and have
your fucking fun, at God's and our expenses.. Because the Word comforts
us with the knowledge that "the smoke from your torment will rise at
the feet of the Lamb for ever and ever, Amen...." And that's fine with
me. I can wait.
You just don't believe it... That's all. But that doesn't mean it isn't
gonna happen.
IBen Getiner
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
17 Aug 2005 08:33:44 AM |
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wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right.
It's okay. I knew it would get under somebody's skin. That's why I
posted it.
Oh, so you posted it because you'd know it was flamebait?
<But why, oh why Lord, did I have to hook a moron...?>
Posting flamebait isn't a moronic thing to do?
It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
But you see yourself as your own god. And you know it.
In that case, you see yourself as a god, too.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN STATE
OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
Wrong again. You worship the creation. Not the Creator. And you know
that too.
Liar. We do not worship the creation.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
17 Aug 2005 09:50:39 PM |
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wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right.
It's okay. I knew it would get under somebody's skin.
LOL! He said you got it wrong, dumb *****!
That's why I posted it.
A troll is as a troll does.
<But why, oh why Lord, did I have to hook a moron...?>
It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
But you see yourself as your own god. And you know it.
If you can't argue rationally then it is always helpful to
simply tell the other guy what his position is. If you
don't mind looking like a idiot, which clearly you do not.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN STATE
OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
Wrong again. You worship the creation. Not the Creator. And you know
that too.
Too bad stupidity isn't painful. BTW you are the cretin who says:
"Faggotz, queerz and niggerz are evil, vile Chicago sewer sludge. The
worst kind. They are sick, corrupt, violent and criminal. Just like the
crack dealer."
Did I blow your cover? Sorry.
<#3 snipped away by Mick but r estored by me for God's pleasure>
3: THOU SHALT OFFEND GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO WHATEVER DEGREE
THAT MAY BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO PLEASE THY OWN TASTE
I posted it. You clipped it out with no rebuttal. In so doing, you do
realize that yo u capitulated the point...? Good! At least we agree on
something.. But it makes you look reeeeeal bad.
Now I know why you think that something without
a brain, limbs, organs, bone, eyes, stomach, face,
sex, feet, toes, hair, no feeling, no emotions, no
thoughts-- a zygote--is just like you: You both
have the same IQ.
Selfishness to the
bitter end. You're nothing more than a sociopathic cockroach, Mick.
Hey, with a few years of hard work and dedication I'm
sure you could be promoted to assistant sociopathic
cockroach.
But
you know that very well too, I'm quite sure. Most sociopaths do.
What gets me is that you actually thought that by snipping them out,
we would simply bypass these particular issues without drawing any
further attention to them (like they're just gonna go away). Typical
low life leftist cockroach... You spend all your evil fuckin' lives
scurrying around in the shadows pretending that the lite of day does
not exist. But it does, Mick. It does... You see, it's very simple...
If you disagreed with them, you would have at least used them to
insulted me with! LOL...!! Transparent corrupt little *****...
LOL! Looks like he got to you all right. Just
remember: "a small pot boils quickly" and "this
too will pass."
<snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
4: REMEMBER... NOTHING IS HOLY. LIKEWISE, CONCEPTS OF HUMBLENESS,
HONOR, SHAME AND REPENTANCE SHALL IN NO WAY BE REQUIRED
IOW: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE. You are your own gods,
therefore there is no absolute right or wrong in your world.
You prove the existence of absolute stupidity.
See....? I started just fine.. The proof lies in the fact that you
swept it under the carpet and you had noth ing to say against it. Right
Mick...?! LOL...!!!!
If there was a god would he allow a racist bigot
like you to speak for him? 'nuff said, case closed.
5: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WHEN DISRESPECTING THE VALUES AND
TEACHINGS OF THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. HOW MUCH WISDOM MIGHT THEY
POSSESS, THEM BEING OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAITH?
Your says that we shoud honor our parents and that if we do we get a long
life and propertty given to us.
Therefore anybody who dies youg or without property did not honor their
parents.
That, among other things.. More than likely. How can you prove
different? You might think you know a person very well, but you do not
hold the keys to that secret place deep within their hearts.
Baloney. In your case it is too easy. You don't need
sonar to see through a shallow and transparent lake.
You just
THINK you do. That's because you're an arrogant pious jerk-off,
Mick...! Only God knows the condition of the human heart
This proves you don't believe in a god. If you believed
this you'd be a Christian instead of being an insult to
Christainty.
, and every
secret thought that has been collected therein!
Can you imagine any god of the universe wallowing
through the overflowing outhouse of your alleged mind?
It is ridiculous and you know it.
Each and every one that
lives or has ever lived. Yours included.
But not yours.
6: THOU SHALT DO THY BEST TO KEEP A VICIOUS CONVICTED MURDERER FROM
HIS APPOINTED DATE WITH STATE-SPONSORED JUSTICE, WHILE AT THE SAME
TIME COLDLY DESTROYING INNOCENTS WHO SLUMBER IN THE WOMB
For you the right to lifer ends at birth.
Yes, yes, yes... I've heard it all before.
Well no one ever accused you of figuring anything
out the first time.
"For mankind, once lost,
will in the glories of sin, find itself again".
Iz that the kind of 'life' you're talking about, Mick..? The 'do your
own thing' kinda life? Your father, the devil..
You know very well that you worship the devil.
Want me to prove it? Piece o' cake! Here you go:
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these
things in the churches. I am the Root and the
Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."
--Revelation 22:16
But who is the morning star in reality? Lucifer, of course!:
How you have fallen from heaven, O STAR of the
morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down
to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
-- Isaiah 14:12
There, I've just blown your cover. Sorry for getting
under your skin.
that's his line. "Do as
thou wilt".
Go back into the shadows where you be long, you filthy valueless vermin
scum.
Tsk. tsk. tsk.
Give none offence, neither to the Jews,
nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of
God: Even as I please all men in all things,
not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of
many, that they may be saved. -- 1 Corinthians
10:32-33
Just more proof that you are a satanist.
< silly excuses and rationalizations snipped>
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
22 Aug 2005 06:37:50 AM |
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wrote:
Lappcatt@AOL.com wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right.
It's okay. I knew it would get under somebody's skin.
LOL! He said you got it wrong, dumb *****!
That's why I posted it.
A troll is as a troll does.
<But why, oh why Lord, did I have to hook a moron...?>
It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
But you see yourself as your own god. And you know it.
If you can't argue rationally then it is always helpful to
simply tell the other guy what his position is. If you
don't mind looking like a idiot, which clearly you do not.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN STATE
OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
Wrong again. You worship the creation. Not the Creator. And you know
that too.
Too bad stupidity isn't painful. BTW you are the cretin who says:
"Faggotz, queerz and niggerz are evil, vile Chicago sewer sludge. The
worst kind. They are sick, corrupt, violent and criminal. Just like the
crack dealer."
Did I blow your cover? Sorry.
<#3 snipped away by Mick but r estored by me for God's pleasure>
3: THOU SHALT OFFEND GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO WHATEVER DEGREE
THAT MAY BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO PLEASE THY OWN TASTE
I posted it. You clipped it out with no rebuttal. In so doing, you do
realize that yo u capitulated the point...? Good! At least we agree on
something.. But it makes you look reeeeeal bad.
Now I know why you think that something without
a brain, limbs, organs, bone, eyes, stomach, face,
sex, feet, toes, hair, no feeling, no emotions, no
thoughts-- a zygote--is just like you: You both
have the same IQ.
Selfishness to the
bitter end. You're nothing more than a sociopathic cockroach, Mick.
Hey, with a few years of hard work and dedication I'm
sure you could be promoted to assistant sociopathic
cockroach.
But
you know that very well too, I'm quite sure. Most sociopaths do.
What gets me is that you actually thought that by snipping them out,
we would simply bypass these particular issues without drawing any
further attention to them (like they're just gonna go away). Typical
low life leftist cockroach... You spend all your evil fuckin' lives
scurrying around in the shadows pretending that the lite of day does
not exist. But it does, Mick. It does... You see, it's very simple...
If you disagreed with them, you would have at least used them to
insulted me with! LOL...!! Transparent corrupt little *****...
LOL! Looks like he got to you all right. Just
remember: "a small pot boils quickly" and "this
too will pass."
<snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
4: REMEMBER... NOTHING IS HOLY. LIKEWISE, CONCEPTS OF HUMBLENESS,
HONOR, SHAME AND REPENTANCE SHALL IN NO WAY BE REQUIRED
IOW: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE. You are your own gods,
therefore there is no absolute right or wrong in your world.
You prove the existence of absolute stupidity.
See....? I started just fine.. The proof lies in the fact that you
swept it under the carpet and you had noth ing to say against it. Right
Mick...?! LOL...!!!!
If there was a god would he allow a racist bigot
like you to speak for him? 'nuff said, case closed.
5: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WHEN DISRESPECTING THE VALUES AND
TEACHINGS OF THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. HOW MUCH WISDOM MIGHT THEY
POSSESS, THEM BEING OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAITH?
Your says that we shoud honor our parents and that if we do we get a long
life and propertty given to us.
Therefore anybody who dies youg or without property did not honor their
parents.
That, among other things.. More than likely. How can you prove
different? You might think you know a person very well, but you do not
hold the keys to that secret place deep within their hearts.
Baloney. In your case it is too easy. You don't need
sonar to see through a shallow and transparent lake.
You just
THINK you do. That's because you're an arrogant pious jerk-off,
Mick...! Only God knows the condition of the human heart
This proves you don't believe in a god. If you believed
this you'd be a Christian instead of being an insult to
Christainty.
, and every
secret thought that has been collected therein!
Can you imagine any god of the universe wallowing
through the overflowing outhouse of your alleged mind?
It is ridiculous and you know it.
Each and every one that
lives or has ever lived. Yours included.
But not yours.
6: THOU SHALT DO THY BEST TO KEEP A VICIOUS CONVICTED MURDERER FROM
HIS APPOINTED DATE WITH STATE-SPONSORED JUSTICE, WHILE AT THE SAME
TIME COLDLY DESTROYING INNOCENTS WHO SLUMBER IN THE WOMB
For you the right to lifer ends at birth.
Yes, yes, yes... I've heard it all before.
Well no one ever accused you of figuring anything
out the first time.
"For mankind, once lost,
will in the glories of sin, find itself again".
Iz that the kind of 'life' you're talking about, Mick..? The 'do your
own thing' kinda life? Your father, the devil..
You know very well that you worship the devil.
Want me to prove it? Piece o' cake! Here you go:
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these
things in the churches. I am the Root and the
Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."
--Revelation 22:16
But who is the morning star in reality? Lucifer, of course!:
How you have fallen from heaven, O STAR of the
morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down
to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
-- Isaiah 14:12
There, I've just blown your cover. Sorry for getting
under your skin.
that's his line. "Do as
thou wilt".
Go back into the shadows where you be long, you filthy valueless vermin
scum.
Tsk. tsk. tsk.
Give none offence, neither to the Jews,
nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of
God: Even as I please all men in all things,
not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of
many, that they may be saved. -- 1 Corinthians
10:32-33
Just more proof that you are a satanist.
< silly excuses and rationalizations snipped>
That's all kewl, hot, groovey and right-on, but you see..... I WASN'T
TALKING TO YOU.
Sorry....
IBen
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
17 Aug 2005 03:12:23 PM |
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wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right.
It's okay. I knew it would get under somebody's skin. That's why I
posted it.
<But why, oh why Lord, did I have to hook a moron...?>
It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
But you see yourself as your own god. And you know it.
Transference.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN
STATE OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
Wrong again. You worship the creation. Not the Creator. And you know
that too.
If my opinion of the creation is your idea of worship, then you have a lot
of different ideas about your gods.
<#3 snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
3: THOU SHALT OFFEND GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO WHATEVER DEGREE
THAT MAY BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO PLEASE THY OWN TASTE
I posted it. You clipped it out with no rebuttal. In so doing, you do
realize that you capitulated the point...? Good! At least we agree on
something.. But it makes you look reeeeeal bad. Selfishness to the
bitter end. You're nothing more than a sociopathic cockroach, Mick.
But you know that very well too, I'm quite sure. Most sociopaths do.
What gets me is that you actually thought that by snipping them out,
we would simply bypass these particular issues without drawing any
further attention to them (like they're just gonna go away). Typical
low life leftist cockroach... You spend all your evil fuckin' lives
scurrying around in the shadows pretending that the lite of day does
not exist. But it does, Mick. It does... You see, it's very simple...
If you disagreed with them, you would have at least used them to
insulted me with! LOL...!! Transparent corrupt little *****...
Gosh I'm sure chastized by you.
I've got $1,000.00 that says I do more for people on a weekly basis than you
do in a year.
Admittedly I only risk my life a few times a year and most of it is very
mundane but are you willing to take the bet?
<snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
IOW: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE. You are your own gods,
therefore there is no absolute right or wrong in your world.
See....? I started just fine.. The proof lies in the fact that you
swept it under the carpet and you had nothing to say against it. Right
Mick...?! LOL...!!!!
Did you get so excited that you forgot we coverd this at the begining?
5: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WHEN DISRESPECTING THE VALUES
AND TEACHINGS OF THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. HOW MUCH WISDOM MIGHT
THEY POSSESS, THEM BEING OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAITH?
Your says that we shoud honor our parents and that if we do we get a
long life and propertty given to us.
Therefore anybody who dies youg or without property did not honor
their parents.
That, among other things.. More than likely. How can you prove
different? You might think you know a person very well, but you do not
hold the keys to that secret place deep within their hearts. You just
THINK you do. That's because you're an arrogant pious jerk-off,
Mick...! Only God knows the condition of the human heart, and every
secret thought that has been collected therein! Each and every one
that lives or has ever lived. Yours included.
Gald you agree that god kills little children because they don't honor
their parents.
I wonder why the parents and others get so upset?
.
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| User: "LC" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
17 Aug 2005 04:11:53 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:HSMMe.2315$r54.2123@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Lappcatt@AOL.com wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right.
It's okay. I knew it would get under somebody's skin. That's why I
posted it.
<But why, oh why Lord, did I have to hook a moron...?>
It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
But you see yourself as your own god. And you know it.
Transference.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN
STATE OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
Wrong again. You worship the creation. Not the Creator. And you know
that too.
If my opinion of the creation is your idea of worship, then you have a
lot of different ideas about your gods.
<#3 snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
3: THOU SHALT OFFEND GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO WHATEVER DEGREE
THAT MAY BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO PLEASE THY OWN TASTE
I posted it. You clipped it out with no rebuttal. In so doing, you do
realize that you capitulated the point...? Good! At least we agree on
something.. But it makes you look reeeeeal bad. Selfishness to the
bitter end. You're nothing more than a sociopathic cockroach, Mick.
But you know that very well too, I'm quite sure. Most sociopaths do.
What gets me is that you actually thought that by snipping them out,
we would simply bypass these particular issues without drawing any
further attention to them (like they're just gonna go away). Typical
low life leftist cockroach... You spend all your evil fuckin' lives
scurrying around in the shadows pretending that the lite of day does
not exist. But it does, Mick. It does... You see, it's very simple...
If you disagreed with them, you would have at least used them to
insulted me with! LOL...!! Transparent corrupt little *****...
Gosh I'm sure chastized by you.
I've got $1,000.00 that says I do more for people on a weekly basis than
you do in a year.
Admittedly I only risk my life a few times a year and most of it is very
mundane but are you willing to take the bet?
Don't waste your time attempting a wager with "IBen", Mike.
He's nothing more than a cowardly sockpuppeting troll, and a spectacularly
disingenous one at that.
"IBen" is, of course, also known in these parts as "J Young".
When it comes to wagers, "their" word is useless, as was shown just a few
weeks back in the treads titled "The Trial of J Young".
LC~ Has personally proven that "IBen" is full of it.
"IBen (I don't question God...I just use 'em how ever I need to)Getiner"
From: (IBen Getiner), hypocrite of Biblical proportions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Subject: Re: LSD
Date: 6 Mar 2005 01:55:01 -0800
Message-ID:
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
22 Aug 2005 06:30:56 AM |
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Mike Painter wrote:
Lappcatt@AOL.com wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
IBen Getiner wrote:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE GODLESS
1: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE
Can't even start right.
It's okay. I knew it would get under somebody's skin. That's why I
posted it.
<But why, oh why Lord, did I have to hook a moron...?>
It's your commandment that admits to other gods.
Our's would be.
THRE ARE NO GODS.
But you see yourself as your own god. And you know it.
Transference.
2: THOU SHALT WORSHIP ONLY MAMMON AND THY BELIEF IN THINE OWN
STATE OF UNBELIEF.
Wrong again. We do not worship.
Wrong again. You worship the creation. Not the Creator. And you know
that too.
If my opinion of the creation is your idea of worship, then you have a lot
of different ideas about your gods.
<#3 snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
3: THOU SHALT OFFEND GOODNESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO WHATEVER DEGREE
THAT MAY BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO PLEASE THY OWN TASTE
I posted it. You clipped it out with no rebuttal. In so doing, you do
realize that you capitulated the point...? Good! At least we agree on
something.. But it makes you look reeeeeal bad. Selfishness to the
bitter end. You're nothing more than a sociopathic cockroach, Mick.
But you know that very well too, I'm quite sure. Most sociopaths do.
What gets me is that you actually thought that by snipping them out,
we would simply bypass these particular issues without drawing any
further attention to them (like they're just gonna go away). Typical
low life leftist cockroach... You spend all your evil fuckin' lives
scurrying around in the shadows pretending that the lite of day does
not exist. But it does, Mick. It does... You see, it's very simple...
If you disagreed with them, you would have at least used them to
insulted me with! LOL...!! Transparent corrupt little *****...
Gosh I'm sure chastized by you.
I've got $1,000.00 that says I do more for people on a weekly basis than you
do in a year.
Admittedly I only risk my life a few times a year and most of it is very
mundane but are you willing to take the bet?
<snipped away by Mick but restored by me for God's pleasure>
IOW: THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE THEE. You are your own gods,
therefore there is no absolute right or wrong in your world.
See....? I started just fine.. The proof lies in the fact that you
swept it under the carpet and you had nothing to say against it. Right
Mick...?! LOL...!!!!
Did you get so excited that you forgot we coverd this at the begining?
5: THOU SHALT NOT CONCERN THYSELF WHEN DISRESPECTING THE VALUES
AND TEACHINGS OF THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. HOW MUCH WISDOM MIGHT
THEY POSSESS, THEM BEING OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAITH?
Your says that we shoud honor our parents and that if we do we get a
long life and propertty given to us.
Therefore anybody who dies youg or without property did not honor
their parents.
That, among other things.. More than likely. How can you prove
different? You might think you know a person very well, but you do not
hold the keys to that secret place deep within their hearts. You just
THINK you do. That's because you're an arrogant pious jerk-off,
Mick...! Only God knows the condition of the human heart, and every
secret thought that has been collected therein! Each and every one
that lives or has ever lived. Yours included.
Gald you agree that god kills little children because they don't honor
their parents.
I wonder why the parents and others get so upset?
Hold those challenging thoughts, Mick.. I like what you and I had going
here. I will return! I have a very sick patient who needs my love and
care right now, and I'm gonna give it to IT.
Hope this clears thingz up. Of course, it totally is up to you to
continue, since so much time has elapsed since our last exchange.
Totally up to you. But please ... have no doubt of this one thing.. I
will return.
Your friend and mine.....
IBen Getiner
.
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| User: "I dont believe in atheists" |
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| Title: RULES OF ATHEISM |
25 Aug 2005 09:01:17 PM |
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RULES OF ATHEISM
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
4a. Specific example for 4.: Cry for "freedom from religion", but whenever
followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream
"Persecution!"
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than
be honest and admit the obvious
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of atheisms failure for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to yourself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of no ones plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of being a
vertabrate monkey out of the premordial slugde
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as right wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything because you have no moral
compass guiding you.
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| User: "Saved by Jesus" |
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| Title: RULES OF ATHEISM |
26 Aug 2005 10:14:17 PM |
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RULES OF ATHEISM
1. Don't pay any attention to rules written by usenet trolls.
2. (See #1, above)
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
27 Aug 2005 05:06:57 AM |
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On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:14:17 -0400, "Saved by Jesus" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
1. Don't pay any attention to rules written by usenet trolls.
2. (See #1, above)
Now those seem like pretty good rules to me. <G>
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
27 Aug 2005 06:16:23 PM |
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RULES OF ATHEISM
1. Logic and reason and rationalty are not optional
2. Facts out rank assertions
3. An unproven assertion is the equal of any other
equally likely unproven assertion.
4. Not all assertions are equal, some are
more likely than others.
5. Lying is not acceptable
6. Ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts
or a competent argument is a sign of
a lost argument and lack of competence.
7. Willful ignorance is unacceptable behavior.
8. Revelation is not a fact, all revelations
must be proven to be true to be considered revelations.
9. Examine all arguments for hidden assumptions,
including your own.
10. Putting forth an argument without bothering to logically
examine obvious and disconfirming consequences of
that argument is a sign of incompetence.
11. Fear mongering in lieu of competent argument is
wrong and contemptible, and is no argument.
12. Even if a person is evil beyond belief, if that person says
something true, it is still true.
13. If somebody puts forth an assertion, burden to prove that
assertion falls on the shoulders of the person making that
assertion.
14. Possible is not an argument equal to probable.
15. Moving goal posts is unacceptable, that is sign of a lost
argument.
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
27 Aug 2005 11:00:18 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:16:23 -0500, WCB
<wbarwell@Mungggedd.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
1. Logic and reason and rationalty are not optional
2. Facts out rank assertions
3. An unproven assertion is the equal of any other
equally likely unproven assertion.
4. Not all assertions are equal, some are
more likely than others.
5. Lying is not acceptable
6. Ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts
or a competent argument is a sign of
a lost argument and lack of competence.
7. Willful ignorance is unacceptable behavior.
8. Revelation is not a fact, all revelations
must be proven to be true to be considered revelations.
9. Examine all arguments for hidden assumptions,
including your own.
10. Putting forth an argument without bothering to logically
examine obvious and disconfirming consequences of
that argument is a sign of incompetence.
11. Fear mongering in lieu of competent argument is
wrong and contemptible, and is no argument.
12. Even if a person is evil beyond belief, if that person says
something true, it is still true.
13. If somebody puts forth an assertion, burden to prove that
assertion falls on the shoulders of the person making that
assertion.
14. Possible is not an argument equal to probable.
15. Moving goal posts is unacceptable, that is sign of a lost
argument.
I must say they are good rules, nevertheless, they are doomed to fail
once you make them to be rules. There are always exceptions to make
your rule impractical.
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
28 Aug 2005 11:24:57 PM |
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Eric Brze wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:16:23 -0500, WCB
<wbarwell@Mungggedd.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
1. Logic and reason and rationalty are not optional
2. Facts out rank assertions
3. An unproven assertion is the equal of any other
equally likely unproven assertion.
4. Not all assertions are equal, some are
more likely than others.
5. Lying is not acceptable
6. Ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts
or a competent argument is a sign of
a lost argument and lack of competence.
7. Willful ignorance is unacceptable behavior.
8. Revelation is not a fact, all revelations
must be proven to be true to be considered revelations.
9. Examine all arguments for hidden assumptions,
including your own.
10. Putting forth an argument without bothering to logically
examine obvious and disconfirming consequences of
that argument is a sign of incompetence.
11. Fear mongering in lieu of competent argument is
wrong and contemptible, and is no argument.
12. Even if a person is evil beyond belief, if that person says
something true, it is still true.
13. If somebody puts forth an assertion, burden to prove that
assertion falls on the shoulders of the person making that
assertion.
14. Possible is not an argument equal to probable.
15. Moving goal posts is unacceptable, that is sign of a lost
argument.
I must say they are good rules, nevertheless, they are doomed to fail
once you make them to be rules. There are always exceptions to make
your rule impractical.
Such as? Lying? Putting forth arguments without bothering to think
about the logical consequences of your claims? When do mere assertions
outrank hard facts?
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
29 Aug 2005 09:52:54 AM |
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On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 23:24:57 -0500, WCB
<wbarwell@Mungggedd.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
Eric Brze wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:16:23 -0500, WCB
<wbarwell@Mungggedd.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
1. Logic and reason and rationalty are not optional
2. Facts out rank assertions
3. An unproven assertion is the equal of any other
equally likely unproven assertion.
4. Not all assertions are equal, some are
more likely than others.
5. Lying is not acceptable
6. Ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts
or a competent argument is a sign of
a lost argument and lack of competence.
7. Willful ignorance is unacceptable behavior.
8. Revelation is not a fact, all revelations
must be proven to be true to be considered revelations.
9. Examine all arguments for hidden assumptions,
including your own.
10. Putting forth an argument without bothering to logically
examine obvious and disconfirming consequences of
that argument is a sign of incompetence.
11. Fear mongering in lieu of competent argument is
wrong and contemptible, and is no argument.
12. Even if a person is evil beyond belief, if that person says
something true, it is still true.
13. If somebody puts forth an assertion, burden to prove that
assertion falls on the shoulders of the person making that
assertion.
14. Possible is not an argument equal to probable.
15. Moving goal posts is unacceptable, that is sign of a lost
argument.
I must say they are good rules, nevertheless, they are doomed to fail
once you make them to be rules. There are always exceptions to make
your rule impractical.
Such as?
Such as the ten commandments. They were once good rules to the ancient
Israelis, but they are not practical today. Your rules of atheism is
not going to be an exception.
Lying? Putting forth arguments without bothering to think
about the logical consequences of your claims?
What consequences are you talking about?
When do mere assertions
outrank hard facts?
When the circumstances change and the hard facts stop being facts.
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| User: "human" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
27 Aug 2005 10:54:01 AM |
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On Fri, 26 Aug 2005, Saved by Jesus wrote:
New Rule:
Support a secular lobbyist in Washington!!
www.secular.org
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
25 Aug 2005 09:23:11 PM |
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"I don't believe in atheists" <Atheists@Fools.com> wrote in
news:LJuPe.37$Z1.2601@news.uswest.net:
RULES OF ATHEISM
(snip garbage)
I just can't understand how anyone could continue to make an ***** of himself
as much as you do.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
26 Aug 2005 07:30:52 AM |
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"I don't believe in atheists" <Atheists@Fools.com> wrote in message
news:LJuPe.37$Z1.2601@news.uswest.net...
RULES OF ATHEISM
<snip all strawman nonsense>
Gee, nothing left.
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| User: "rudo" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
26 Aug 2005 07:41:56 AM |
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why are you following me then
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: RULES OF THEISM |
26 Aug 2005 08:19:10 AM |
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1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological, or
verbal, at all times as the will of God.
4a. Specific example for 4: Cry for "freedom from religion", but whenever
followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream
"Persecution!"
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed into a
corner in an argument.
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than be
honest and admit the obvious.
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of error
and correction as part of an atheist-liberal plot against you and not as a
something for which you should apologise, retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to yourself.
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans for the
world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of being one of God's
Holy Elect.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and oppose all
such information through classification of such information in a derogatory and
simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing propaganda.)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is complex
and there are shades of grey.
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything because God said something in a
moment of dyspepsia 2000 years ago and that is the way it is now and ever shall
be, world without end, amen.
Wow, that cut-n-paste took a surprisingly little amount of editing.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
- Robert Anton Wilson
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| User: "WCB" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
25 Aug 2005 11:27:34 PM |
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I don't believe in atheists wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
Part 1
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and conciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed for
the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and
Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually logically
derivable from the claimed attribute of omnipotence and
so aren't not truely independent attributes, and may be
considered special aspects of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the only
such god, that he is is immortal and that god has always
existed that are not important for this discussion and for
now, can be ignored. They are secondary arguments and in
no way are foundational or truely necessary, except those
that can be logically derived from the attributes listed
above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a definition
not for a particular god, but an entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here. Christianity
claims one may attain salvation only through Jesus, Islam
claims the Christian dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous. Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a personal,
creator, omni-everything god. I have coined a term,
The Grand God of Grand Theologies for this sort of god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have adopted this
class of god as their basic attributes concerning the nature
of god. But it is important to remember here that what is
being discussed here is a class of gods, not particular gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand Theologies
holding to this basic class of god as their basic
definitions of what god is at god's most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it collapses
rather easily into internal self contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by Epicurus
in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes back
to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is still popular,
and is championed most notably today by Alvin Plantinga.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do evil.
Ability to do evil is less evil than lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature incapable
of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature, this good
nature is not allowed to cound againts god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count against
man's free will than it does for god's free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will and god
does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free will, thus
free will is not a true necessity at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and can give
man a god like free will and a god like good nature
incapable of moral evil, god must do so or god is not
moral, not omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can have
a god like free will and a god like good nature.
Either way, free will cannot explain away the existance
of evil. This free will defense then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all in
the Universe and he knows the future of the Universe
and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that in 13 billion
years this Universe will have a man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and damned, God
will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present state will
have a John Smith, god may then contemplate the future state
of Smith and decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a specific personal
and will choice made solely by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely because of a choice
made by god. In fact all moral evil done by creations of god
will be evil and do evil only because of personal and willful
creations of god allowing evil acts to be done, by direct
decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient creator god, it is
solely and only because god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal choices of god, god
then is not as defined, omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a Universe cannot have
any free will, not even in principle. A Universe with a god
that creates all and knows all precludes free will for all
beings god creates in the strongest possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is incoherent
and contradictory as a theory.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this Grand God,
has been defined here with as few terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defence, free will is fatally flawed.
God's good nature and free will doom claims free
will makes evil necessary for man to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further doom claims of
god's omnibenevolence and man's free will Free will cannot
exist for man. All evil is the direct and knowing creation
of god contradicting claims of omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible, free will
cannot be a good quality, much less neccesary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has collapsed. As has Grand
Theology. As pointed out, this destroys the claims and viability
of an entire class of possible gods, all secondary and tertiary
claims for such a god of this class also fail, as do dogmas or
secondary claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined, specific gods
cannot, nor can claims such as this or that Grand God sent this
or that relevation to man or some prophet.
***********
--
Xenu is around and about,
mention Hubbard, Xenu pops out!
No way for the clams to stamp Xenu out,
Xenu is around and about!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
25 Aug 2005 09:34:07 PM |
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I don't believe in atheists wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
4a. Specific example for 4.: Cry for "freedom from religion", but whenever
followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream
"Persecution!"
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than
be honest and admit the obvious
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of atheisms failure for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to yourself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of no ones plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of being a
vertabrate monkey out of the premordial slugde
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as right wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything because you have no moral
compass guiding you.
Hm. This seems to be the commandments of Fundamentalist Christian.
Sure you downloaded the right list, IDBIA? None of the above seems to
apply to atheism.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
25 Aug 2005 09:29:25 PM |
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In article <LJuPe.37$Z1.2601@news.uswest.net>, I don't believe in
atheists <Atheists@Fools.com> wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
Why do you continue to embarass American Christians in front of the
whole world?
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
26 Aug 2005 05:11:08 PM |
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In news:LJuPe.37$Z1.2601@news.uswest.net "I don't believe in atheists"
<Atheists@Fools.com> wrote:
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
Then don't you think it's time for you to go away?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
26 Aug 2005 07:47:07 AM |
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On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:01:17 -0700, "I don't believe in atheists"
<Atheists@Fools.com> drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism
beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
RULES OF ATHEISM
1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
Funny, that's what I get from Christians all the time.
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
I've admitted my mistakes in this forum many times. Have you?
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
Which is something you excel at.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
My "violence" is nothing compared to the bile you spew. Yet you claim
that you are being attacked. Hmmm...
4a. Specific example for 4.: Cry for "freedom from religion", but whenever
followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream
"Persecution!"
No, that's Christians when groups like the Wiccans ask for the same
protections under the law.
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
Again, something you excel at.
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than
be honest and admit the obvious
You're describing yourself to a tee here
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
I accept responsibility for all my actions, which is why I post using
a real name and address.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of atheisms failure for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to yourself
Say what? When I apologize, it's because I am sorry for an error.
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of no ones plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of being a
vertabrate monkey out of the premordial slugde
Yup. I am responsible for what I do. No "the Devil made me do it"
here! My errors are just that, errors, and need to be corrected.
Everyone makes mistakes, the key is how you respond to them.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
When the hell did I ever claim to be humble? I'm magnificent!
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as right wing
propaganda)
This would explain the several Bibles and guides to the Bible on my
bookshelf, along with holy texts from other religions. I take in
information constantly. And I do judge it. Religion is bilge.
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
Yes it is. Now, can you accept the same thing about religion?
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything because you have no moral
compass guiding you.
I've forgiven people for trying to kill me. I forgave a loved one who
hurt me terribly. Life's too short to hold grudges like that.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "rudo" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
26 Aug 2005 08:02:02 AM |
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I've forgiven people for trying to kill me. I forgave a loved one who
hurt me terribly. Life's too short to hold grudges like that.
talk about this pleas
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: RULES OF ATHEISM |
27 Aug 2005 11:10:39 AM |
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Why list the rules that he follows himself?
I don't believe in atheists wrote:
RULES OF ATHEISM
[...]
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| User: "LC" |
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| Title: Re: On American Law being based on the Ten Commandments |
17 Aug 2005 08:11:47 AM |
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Cowardly lyin' sockpuppeting bigot "IBen Getiner" <>
AKA "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124273772.782717.91080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Oh, look! It's "J Young", "back" from New York weeks early.
Say, "J", in light of this statement of yours:
" I posted it. You clipped it out with no rebuttal. In so doing, you do
realize that you capitulated the point...? Good! At least we agree on
something.. But it makes you look reeeeeal bad. Selfishness to the
bitter end."
From:
Message-ID: <1124273772.782717.91080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Why not quit snipping this and address it?:
http://tinyurl.com/bjupd
Why would "J Young" get so apoplectic over "IBen" being redressed?
Seems a bit...strange, don't you think?
I'll await your answer. I'm sure, having made the proclamation noted above,
that you wouldn't want to come off as a lying hypocrite, hmmmm? <g>
LC~ Run, IBen/J Young, run!
"See.... You just won't shut up.
a Young Jon known as....IBen Getiner"
From: (IBen Getiner)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.bible
Subject: Re: "Jon Young" = "IBen Getiner." Here's the proof!
Date: 23 Oct 2004 18:56:29 -0700
Message-ID:
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