Once Again -m FEMA Was Gutted

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Michelle Malkin"
Date:	05 Sep 2005 08:34:47 PM
Object:	Once Again -m FEMA Was Gutted

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fema5sep05,0,685581.story?track=tothtml
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper,
High Preistess Bastet of the Unchurch Temple of Si & Am
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 07:07:30 AM

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in
news:AsGdnYOh45epb4HeRVn-hA@comcast.com:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-

fema5sep05,0,68558

1.story?track=tothtml

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm
Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder
Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans.
Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state
responsibility
Tuesday, September 06, 2005
As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and
also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I
believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.
The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to
the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any
federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal
level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education,
assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state
officials run their own emergency management program.
Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable
contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and
then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure
that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at
the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable
elements of the federal government (those located in the local area).
These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the
personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.
I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an
important section in the first paragraph.
"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal
agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the
development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan.
All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding
subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office.
Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and
Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish
shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided
under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "
Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray
Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own
office. A telling picture, at left, taken by The Associated Press on
Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park,
apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of
water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the
taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’
- Howard Dean
.

User: "JTEM"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 11:54:47 AM

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Apparently it's not a second, third, fourth or fifth responder
either.
In fact, if anything defines FEMA at this point is the LACK
of any useful response.
Then again, government is simply a tool. And like any tool,
government is only as good as the men who use it.
Once again, America needed men in charge, men to take
responsibility and to so initiative. Instead, all we had was
Bush.
Hope you like martial law. Because that's what you're
endorsing.
.

User: "Ted King"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 11:08:11 PM

In article <NaSdnZ2dnZ2B9hHhnZ2dne9agN6dnZ2dRVn-z52dnZ0@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Apparently it's not a second, third, fourth or fifth responder
either.

In fact, if anything defines FEMA at this point is the LACK
of any useful response.

Then again, government is simply a tool. And like any tool,
government is only as good as the men who use it.

Once again, America needed men in charge, men to take
responsibility and to so initiative. Instead, all we had was
Bush.

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197
ATLANTA -
"Not long after some 1,000 firefighters sat down for eight hours of
training, the whispering began: "What are we doing here?"
As New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin pleaded on national television for
firefighters - his own are exhausted after working around the clock for
a week - a battalion of highly trained men and women sat idle Sunday in
a muggy Sheraton Hotel conference room in Atlanta.
Many of the firefighters, assembled from Utah and throughout the
United States by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, thought they
were going to be deployed as emergency workers.
Instead, they have learned they are going to be community-relations
officers for FEMA, shuffled throughout the Gulf Coast region to
disseminate fliers and a phone number: 1-800-621-FEMA.
On Monday, some firefighters stuck in the staging area at the
Sheraton peeled off their FEMA-issued shirts and stuffed them in
backpacks, saying they refuse to represent the federal agency."
"'They've got people here who are search-and-rescue certified,
paramedics, haz-mat certified," said a Texas firefighter. "We're sitting
in here having a sexual-harassment class while there are still [victims]
in Louisiana who haven't been contacted yet.'
The firefighter, who has encouraged his superiors back home not to
send any more volunteers for now, declined to give his name because FEMA
has warned them not to talk to reporters."
"'It's just an under-utilization of very talented people," said South
Salt Lake Fire Chief Steve Foote, who sent a team of firefighters to
Atlanta. "I was hoping once they saw the level of people . . . they
would shift gears a little bit.'
Foote said his crews would be better used doing the jobs they are
trained to do.
But Louis H. Botta, a coordinating officer for FEMA, said sending
out firefighters on community relations makes sense. They already have
had background checks and meet the qualifications to be sworn as a
federal employee. They have medical training that will prove invaluable
as they come across hurricane victims in the field.
A firefighter from California said he feels ill prepared to even
carry out the job FEMA has assigned him. In the field, Hurricane Katrina
victims will approach him with questions about everything from insurance
claims to financial assistance.
"My only answer to them is, '1-800-621-FEMA,' " he said. "I'm not
used to not being in the know."
Roy Fire Chief Jon Ritchie said his crews would be a "little
frustrated" if they were assigned to hand out phone numbers at an
evacuee center in Texas rather than find and treat victims of the
disaster.
Also of concern to some of the firefighters is the cost borne by
their municipalities in the wake of their absence. Cities are picking up
the tab to fill the firefighters' vacancies while they work 30 days for
the federal government.
"There are all of these guys with all of this training and we're
sending them out to hand out a phone number," an Oregon firefighter
said. "They [the hurricane victims] are screaming for help and this day
[of FEMA training] was a waste."
Firefighters say they want to brave the heat, the debris-littered
roads, the poisonous cottonmouth snakes and fire ants and travel into
pockets of Louisiana where many people have yet to receive emergency
aid."
And here's a real corker:
"But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta,
a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for
Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush
as he tours devastated areas."
.

User: "johac"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	07 Sep 2005 12:47:37 AM

In article <NaSdnZ2dnZ2B9hHhnZ2dne9agN6dnZ2dRVn-z52dnZ0@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Apparently it's not a second, third, fourth or fifth responder
either.

In fact, if anything defines FEMA at this point is the LACK
of any useful response.

If FEMA did nothing, it would have been bad enough, but it seems that in
several cases the actively PREVENTED help from arriving:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/16455/30830

Then again, government is simply a tool. And like any tool,
government is only as good as the men who use it.

Once again, America needed men in charge, men to take
responsibility and to so initiative. Instead, all we had was
Bush.

Hope you like martial law. Because that's what you're
endorsing.

--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.

User: "JTEM"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	07 Sep 2005 01:51:48 AM

"johac" <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote

If FEMA did nothing, it would have been bad enough, but it
seems that in several cases the actively PREVENTED help
from arriving:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/16455/30830

No American can read this and NOT demand Bush's impeachment.
Personally, I'd say that after 9/11 this can't be considered a
***** up. It was easily preventable by simply tossing Bush out
on his spoiled-rotten ***** FOUR YEARS AGO.
.

User: "johac"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	08 Sep 2005 12:29:59 AM

In article <EfudnUakgZQ9FoPeRVn-jQ@comcast.com>,
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:

"johac" <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote

If FEMA did nothing, it would have been bad enough, but it
seems that in several cases the actively PREVENTED help
from arriving:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/16455/30830

No American can read this and NOT demand Bush's impeachment.

Personally, I'd say that after 9/11 this can't be considered a
***** up. It was easily preventable by simply tossing Bush out
on his spoiled-rotten ***** FOUR YEARS AGO.

Not to mention that the little ***** never should have ascended into
office in the first place.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 12:49:21 PM

In episode <NaSdnZ2dnZ2B9hHhnZ2dne9agN6dnZ2dRVn-z52dnZ0@comcast.com>, JTEM
burst into the room and exclaimed:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Apparently it's not a second, third, fourth or fifth responder either.

Hell, it's just not a responder. At all.
People better hope there aren't any big terrorist attacks. We had *warning
and we could evacuate 80% of our population. A terrorist attack would take
a city by surprise. FEMA will be busy doodling an new org chart and logo
while your city burns...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.

User: "Uncle Buck"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 10:04:59 PM

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:54:47 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Apparently it's not a second, third, fourth or fifth responder
either.

In fact, if anything defines FEMA at this point is the LACK
of any useful response.

It's worse than that, they've proven to be downright _destructive_
towards relief and recovery efforts.

Honestly? I think we should give the ladies a hand at piloting this
thing for once. The guys have had enough "fun" screwing up the
country for the past several hundred years and the entire planet for
several thousands of years prior to that. I really don't see how
having women in charge of _everything_ could possibly make it any
*worse*.

Instead, all we had was
Bush.

Well, what I'm proposing _is_ to have "bush" in charge, in a sense...
:-#
<FFFFFFLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeee....> ;-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=
Those who say, "Now is not the time for placing blame"
...
....are quite often to blame....
.

User: "Liz"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	07 Sep 2005 05:56:10 AM

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:54:47 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> in
news message <NaSdnZ2dnZ2B9hHhnZ2dne9agN6dnZ2dRVn-z52dnZ0@comcast.com>
wrote:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Apparently it's not a second, third, fourth or fifth responder
either.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/07/katrina.congress/index.html
According to Natalie Rule, a spokeswoman for FEMA, the [additional
1000] employees were needed to answer phones, do community relations
and help set up field hospitals, what she called "non-emergency
tasks." They are not first-responders, she said.
"We already had all of our first-responder teams pre-deployed -- 32
teams in all -- who went in and staged in and around the hurricane
zone and were ready to go by Sunday. This is deployment that requires
that the governor make a request to the federal government," Rule
said.
~
According to an official spokeswoman, FEMA itself considers its
first-responder teams to be first-responders. Seems logical to me.
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
.

User: "Ted King"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 08:36:09 AM

In article <1126008450.ec3cf5ed85e22faa4f3ddd9d519241c5@teranews>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in
news:AsGdnYOh45epb4HeRVn-hA@comcast.com:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-

fema5sep05,0,68558

1.story?track=tothtml

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans.
Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state
responsibility

Tuesday, September 06, 2005

As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and
also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I
believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.

The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to
the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any
federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal
level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education,
assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state
officials run their own emergency management program.

Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable
contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and
then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure
that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at
the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable
elements of the federal government (those located in the local area).
These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the
personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.

I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an
important section in the first paragraph.

"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal
agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the
development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan.
All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding
subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office.
Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and
Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish
shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided
under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "

Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray
Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own
office. A telling picture, at left, taken by The Associated Press on
Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park,
apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of
water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the
taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp
"In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other
large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume
primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response
professionals are prepared for any situation."
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=63
"The first responders of this nation put themselves on the line every
day to protect and help our communities. The Department of Homeland
Security is committed to helping first responders nation-wide
* by ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared,
equipped and trained for any situation, and
* by bringing together information and resources to prepare for and
respond to a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale
emergency."
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 01:00:26 PM

In episode <lodited-FEF0AC.06360706092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
Ted King burst into the room and exclaimed:

In article <1126008450.ec3cf5ed85e22faa4f3ddd9d519241c5@teranews>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in
news:AsGdnYOh45epb4HeRVn-hA@comcast.com:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-

fema5sep05,0,68558

1.story?track=tothtml

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans.
Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state
responsibility

Tuesday, September 06, 2005

As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and
also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I
believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.

The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to
the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any
federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal
level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education,
assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state
officials run their own emergency management program.

Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable
contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and
then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure
that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at
the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable
elements of the federal government (those located in the local area).
These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the
personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.

I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an
important section in the first paragraph.

"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal
agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the
development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan.
All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding
subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office.
Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and
Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish
shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided
under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "

Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray
Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own
office. A telling picture, at left, taken by The Associated Press on
Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park,
apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of
water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the
taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

"In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale
emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary
responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response
professionals are prepared for any situation."

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=63

"The first responders of this nation put themselves on the line every day
to protect and help our communities. The Department of Homeland Security
is committed to helping first responders nation-wide

* by ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared,
equipped and trained for any situation, and
* by bringing together information and resources to prepare for and
respond to a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale
emergency."

Be sure to add the footnote:
* Unless Bush is on vacation. Then you're on your fucking own.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 02:41:40 PM

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:B6-dnWONd6OkRIDeRVn-tg@megapath.net:

In episode
<lodited-FEF0AC.06360706092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>, Ted King
burst into the room and exclaimed:

In article <1126008450.ec3cf5ed85e22faa4f3ddd9d519241c5@teranews>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in
news:AsGdnYOh45epb4HeRVn-hA@comcast.com:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-

fema5sep05,0,68558

1.story?track=tothtml

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm

Craig Martelle: FEMA is not a first responder

Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans.
Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state
responsibility

Tuesday, September 06, 2005

As one who has received training by FEMA in emergency management and
also training by the Department of Defense in consequence
management, I believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs
clarification.

The key to emergency management starts at the local level and
expands to the state level. Emergency planning generally does not
include any federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones
from the federal level for any local plan. FEMA provides free
training, education, assistance and respond in case of an emergency,
but the local and state officials run their own emergency management
program.

Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable
contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government
--and then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to
ensure that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not
available at the local level. Additionally, good planning will
include applicable elements of the federal government (those located
in the local area). These processes are well established, but are
contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected
officials at the local level.

I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an
important section in the first paragraph.

"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal
agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through
the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard
plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal
funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through
this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency
Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709,
Paragraph B, 'Each parish shall maintain a Disaster Agency which,
except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over
and serves the entire parish.' "

Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor,
Ray Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but
his own office. A telling picture, at left, taken by The Associated
Press on Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a
school bus park, apparently filled to capacity with buses, under
about four feet of water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why
weren't all the taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

"In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other
large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will
assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that
emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation."

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=63

"The first responders of this nation put themselves on the line every
day to protect and help our communities. The Department of Homeland
Security is committed to helping first responders nation-wide

* by ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared,
equipped and trained for any situation, and
* by bringing together information and resources to prepare for
and
respond to a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale
emergency."

Be sure to add the footnote:

* Unless Bush is on vacation. Then you're on your fucking own.

Or unless Nagin is the mayor.
In storm, N.O. wants no one left behind; Number of people without cars
makes evacuation difficult By Bruce Nolan, Staff writer, New Orleans
Times-Picayne, July 24, 2005:
City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give the
poorest of New Orleans' poor a historically blunt message: In the event
of a major hurricane, you're on your own. In scripted appearances being
recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross
Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas
drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move
out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation.
In the video, made by the anti-poverty agency Total Community Action,
they urge those people to make arrangements now by finding their own
ways to leave the city in the event of an evacuation. "You're
responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the
person next to you," Wilkins said in an interview. "If you have some
room to get that person out of town, the Red Cross will have a space for
that person outside the area. We can help you. "But we don't have the
transportation."
Officials are recording the evacuation message even as recent research
by the University of New Orleans indicated that as many as 60 percent of
the residents of most southeast Louisiana parishes would remain in their
homes in the event of a Category 3 hurricane. Their message will be
distributed on hundreds of DVDs across the city. The DVDs' basic get-
out-of-town message applies to all audiences, but the it is especially
targeted to scores of churches and other groups heavily concentrated in
Central City and other vulnerable, low-income neighborhoods, said the
Rev. Marshall Truehill, head of Total Community Action. "The primary
message is that eachperson is primarilyresponsibleforthemselves, for
their own family and friends," Truehill said.
In addition to the plea from Nagin, Thomas and Wilkins, video
exhortations to make evacuation plans come from representatives of State
Police and the National Weather Service, and from local officials such
as Sen. Ann Duplessis, D-New Orleans, and State Rep. Arthur Morrell, D-
New Orleans, said Allan Katz, whose advertising company is coordinating
officials' scripts and doing the recording. The speakers explain what to
bring and what to leave behind. They advise viewers to bring personal
medicines and critical legal documents, and tell them how to create a
family communication plan. Even a representative of the Society for the
Prevention of Cruelty to Animals weighs in with a message on how to make
the best arrangements for pets left behind.
Production likely will continue through August. Officials want to get
the DVDs into the hands of pastors and community leaders as hurricane
season reaches its height in September, Katz said.
Believing that the low-lying city is too dangerous a place to shelter
refugees, the Red Cross positioned its storm shelters on higher ground
north of Interstate 10 several years ago. It dropped plans to care for
storm victims in schools or other institutions in town. Truehill,
Wilkins and others said emergency preparedness officials still plan to
deploy some Regional Transit Authority buses, school buses and perhaps
even Amtrak trains to move some people before a storm.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’
- Howard Dean
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	06 Sep 2005 06:37:18 PM

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

Yeah, let's see, Louisiana is actually the richest state in the union. We
keep all our Mercedes in underground garages so the rest of you don't
catch on. Nagin actually, personally, could have bought everybody in the
Dome a new SUV with the Louisiana Express card we all carry ("Don't get
hit by a hurricane without it!"). But he was busy rolling around naked in
his share of the 2 trillion we use for confetti when you're not looking.
What part of "poor" is so hard for you to understand?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.

User: "Colin Day"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	09 Sep 2005 12:18:05 PM

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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?
Colin Day aa #1500
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<blockquote cite="midWLidnccEB7axtYPeRVn-2A@megapath.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Or unless Nagin is the mayor.
In storm, N.O. wants no one left behind; Number of people without cars
makes evacuation difficult By Bruce Nolan, Staff writer, New Orleans
Times-Picayne, July 24, 2005:
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Yeah, let's see, Louisiana is actually the richest state in the union. We
keep all our Mercedes in underground garages so the rest of you don't
catch on. Nagin actually, personally, could have bought everybody in the
Dome a new SUV with the Louisiana Express card we all carry ("Don't get
hit by a hurricane without it!"). But he was busy rolling around naked in
his share of the 2 trillion we use for confetti when you're not looking.
What part of "poor" is so hard for you to understand?
</pre>
</blockquote>
So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city? 
 
Colin Day   aa #1500 
</body>
</html>
--------------040706000103050405000007--
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	09 Sep 2005 12:49:11 PM

In <htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?

Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you can
have an opinion.
Begin.... now!
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	09 Sep 2005 01:36:51 PM

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:teWdnZW55fqQVrzeRVn-qw@megapath.net:

In <htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>,
Fred Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to
evacuate the city?

Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you
can have an opinion.

Begin.... now!

So I guess if you're not a corpse floating face-down in a canal you
can't talk about the dead in NO.
And if you haven't been the head of FEMA, you have no standing to
criticize Michael Brown.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
I think if we had a three-word message right now it’d be, ‘We can do
better.’
- Howard Dean
.

User: "Colin Day"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	10 Sep 2005 07:54:02 AM

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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?

Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you can
have an opinion.

Begin.... now!

Why do I need your permission to have an opinion? And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast
ballots in the next
mayoral election?
Colin Day aa #1500
--------------000004070909010902010901
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<blockquote cite="midteWdnZW55fqQVrzeRVn-qw@megapath.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com"><htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com></a>, Colin Day
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cday3@sc.rr.com"><cday3@sc.rr.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Or unless Nagin is the mayor.
In storm, N.O. wants no one left behind; Number of people without cars
makes evacuation difficult By Bruce Nolan, Staff writer, New Orleans
Times-Picayne, July 24, 2005:

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Yeah, let's see, Louisiana is actually the richest state in the union. We
keep all our Mercedes in underground garages so the rest of you don't
catch on. Nagin actually, personally, could have bought everybody in the
Dome a new SUV with the Louisiana Express card we all carry ("Don't get
hit by a hurricane without it!"). But he was busy rolling around naked in
his share of the 2 trillion we use for confetti when you're not looking.
What part of "poor" is so hard for you to understand?

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you can
have an opinion.
Begin.... now!
</pre>
</blockquote>
Why do I need your permission to have an opinion? And the voters of New
Orleans, 
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast
ballots in the next 
mayoral election? 
 
Colin Day   aa #1500 
</body>
</html>
--------------000004070909010902010901--
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	10 Sep 2005 09:19:15 AM

In <KHAUe.1923$WW6.149084@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?

Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you can
have an opinion.

Begin.... now!

Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?

If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into a
big pile, how much value would that pile have?
It's not a matter of "permission."

And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast ballots
in the next
mayoral election?

Those of us who were evacuated know who was busting their asses to get
people out of the area. I notice people want to blame Blanco, Nagin, and
others for the thousands who did not get out but nobody seems to want to
give them credit for the ONE MILLION who did.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.

User: "Uncle Buck"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	10 Sep 2005 12:29:13 PM

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:19:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In <KHAUe.1923$WW6.149084@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?

Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you can
have an opinion.

Begin.... now!

Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?

If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into a
big pile, how much value would that pile have?

It's not a matter of "permission."

And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast ballots
in the next
mayoral election?

They're the same people you fully expect to hear saying, "She
_deserved_ it!" or "She was _BEGGING_ for it!" when accusations of
rape or abuse come up. The mindset is, at the least, quite similar.
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=
Those first to step up and say,
"Now is not the time for placing blame"
...
...are quite often to blame....
_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=~_o-O=
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	10 Sep 2005 11:29:59 AM

In <4t56i1dfo9dhaij6kgrq8hl7nneq8g1r5b@4ax.com>, Uncle Buck
<UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:19:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In <KHAUe.1923$WW6.149084@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>,
Fred Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to
evacuate the city?

Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you
can have an opinion.

Begin.... now!

Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?

If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into
a big pile, how much value would that pile have?

It's not a matter of "permission."

And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast
ballots in the next
mayoral election?

They're the same people you fully expect to hear saying, "She _deserved_
it!" or "She was _BEGGING_ for it!" when accusations of rape or abuse come
up. The mindset is, at the least, quite similar. --

It sure as hell feels like that's how we're being treated.
I'm waiting for Ophelia to keep powering up for her run at the East Coast.
She's down to *3* miles per hour. Even a small hurricane that moves *slow
can cause massive destruction.
A slow moving weak hurricane can be worse than a fast moving strong one...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.

User: "Colin Day"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	10 Sep 2005 09:43:33 PM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <KHAUe.1923$WW6.149084@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:

So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?

Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you can
have an opinion.

Begin.... now!

Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?

If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into a
big pile, how much value would that pile have?

It's not a matter of "permission."

And what uninformed opinion did I make? In my original post, I asked
a question (someone in a different thread pointed out that even if the
people could have been moved, where could they have gone?)
Also, you will no more rid usenet of uninformed opinion than you will
repair the levees with a teaspoon.

And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast ballots
in the next
mayoral election?

And how did those million people get out?
Colin Day aa #1500
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<blockquote
cite="midKqGdnZ2dnZ3v_KbDnZ2dncp2v96dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0@megapath.net"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:KHAUe.1923$WW6.149084@twister.southeast.rr.com"><KHAUe.1923$WW6.149084@twister.southeast.rr.com></a>, Colin Day
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cday3@sc.rr.com"><cday3@sc.rr.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com"><htjUe.346$WW6.75236@twister.southeast.rr.com></a>, Colin Day
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cday3@sc.rr.com"><cday3@sc.rr.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In episode <1126035701.4decc7c90b60101dcf79f68df60e4aed@teranews>, Fred
Stone burst into the room and exclaimed:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Or unless Nagin is the mayor.
In storm, N.O. wants no one left behind; Number of people without cars
makes evacuation difficult By Bruce Nolan, Staff writer, New Orleans
Times-Picayne, July 24, 2005:

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Yeah, let's see, Louisiana is actually the richest state in the union.
We keep all our Mercedes in underground garages so the rest of you
don't catch on. Nagin actually, personally, could have bought everybody
in the Dome a new SUV with the Louisiana Express card we all carry
("Don't get hit by a hurricane without it!"). But he was busy rolling
around naked in his share of the 2 trillion we use for confetti when
you're not looking.
What part of "poor" is so hard for you to understand?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">So New Orleans had no city buses or school buses with which to evacuate
the city?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Tell you what, whatever city you live in or near, you have two days to
evacuate over 80% of the population. Once you've done that, then you can
have an opinion.
Begin.... now!
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into a
big pile, how much value would that pile have?
It's not a matter of "permission."
</pre>
</blockquote>
 
And what uninformed opinion did I make? In my original post, I asked 
a question (someone in a different thread pointed out that even if the 
people could have been moved, where could they have gone?) 
 
Also, you will no more rid usenet of uninformed opinion than you will 
repair the levees with a teaspoon. 
<blockquote
cite="midKqGdnZ2dnZ3v_KbDnZ2dncp2v96dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0@megapath.net"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast ballots
in the next
mayoral election?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Those of us who were evacuated know who was busting their asses to get
people out of the area. I notice people want to blame Blanco, Nagin, and
others for the thousands who did not get out but nobody seems to want to
give them credit for the ONE MILLION who did.
</pre>
</blockquote>
And how did those million people get out? 
 
 
Colin Day   aa #1500 
</body>
</html>
--------------030104000809050508090103--
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	10 Sep 2005 11:28:46 PM

In <pRMUe.1577$Jp.226409@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:
<snipping for space>

Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?

If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into
a big pile, how much value would that pile have?

It's not a matter of "permission."

And what uninformed opinion did I make? In my original post, I asked a
question (someone in a different thread pointed out that even if the
people could have been moved, where could they have gone?)

I was responding to your comment about "permission." It's not a matter of
permission.
I'm sorry but I'm am sick of hearing about those buses. Nobody seems to
offer any suggestions about gas, staging, destination, etc. Nor is anybody
thinking about timing.
Such as by the time those people were trooping to the Dome, there were
only a few hours left before the first bands of Katrina would hit the
city. By *then, nobody was getting out. The police and such were being
recalled to shelters themselves to ride out the storm. Some people ended
up literally running through the rain of the first storm to get to the
Dome.
How many buses would it take to move 10,000 people? And, keep in mind, the
city buses were running routes to pick people up and bring them to the
Dome. You'd have to be running buses like that to take them to the staging
area for the buses that would head out. And you'd get only one "shot" at
it. Every outbound route was bumper-to-bumper. It took me six hours to go
100 miles. And I'm outside the city. It took longer if you left from the
area in question. You wouldn't have a chance to come back and get more
people. You'd have to move them all at once.
So look at it the other way around. Evacuate them first.
Okay, there are (were I guess) around 100 to 130,000 people in the city
that did not have cars. How many of them do you need to evacuate? All of
them? Which 10,000 won't find rides? How do you know?
I see nobody seems to notice that the feds ended up evacuating between 20
and 30,000 people. Which means unless there are a *lot more corpses than
anybody's seen, some 70 to 100,000 carless people *did get out. But you
don't know that two days before. So do you plan on moving all of them?
Does *anybody have enough buses to move 100,000 people?
The logistics boggle my mind. All these facile comments about Nagin and
Blanco are just seriously pissing me off.
And nobody I know of has bothered to note that Nagin *DID* get those
people through the storm. And that another 10,000 or so *WERE* rescued by
the city.
Not to mention early reports are that the death toll may be considerably
lower than anybody expected.

Also, you will no more rid usenet of uninformed opinion than you will
repair the levees with a teaspoon.

And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast
ballots in the next
mayoral election?

And how did those million people get out?

In one *hell of an evacuation.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.

User: "Colin Day"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	11 Sep 2005 08:38:19 AM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <pRMUe.1577$Jp.226409@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:

<snipping for space>

Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?

If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into
a big pile, how much value would that pile have?

It's not a matter of "permission."

And what uninformed opinion did I make? In my original post, I asked a
question (someone in a different thread pointed out that even if the
people could have been moved, where could they have gone?)

At 40 people per bus, that would require 250 buses. Actually 2,500, as
there were
100,000 people to move.

city buses were running routes to pick people up and bring them to the
Dome. You'd have to be running buses like that to take them to the staging
area for the buses that would head out. And you'd get only one "shot" at
it. Every outbound route was bumper-to-bumper. It took me six hours to go
100 miles. And I'm outside the city. It took longer if you left from the
area in question. You wouldn't have a chance to come back and get more
people. You'd have to move them all at once.

Clogged roads? Wouldn't having 40 people on a bus take up less road space
than 20 cars?

So look at it the other way around. Evacuate them first.

Okay, there are (were I guess) around 100 to 130,000 people in the city
that did not have cars. How many of them do you need to evacuate? All of
them? Which 10,000 won't find rides? How do you know?

I see nobody seems to notice that the feds ended up evacuating between 20
and 30,000 people. Which means unless there are a *lot more corpses than
anybody's seen, some 70 to 100,000 carless people *did get out. But you
don't know that two days before. So do you plan on moving all of them?

Of course you *plan on moving all of them out. Whether or not the
authorities
can move them out is a different question.

Does *anybody have enough buses to move 100,000 people?

How many city buses and school buses did New Orleans have?

The logistics boggle my mind. All these facile comments about Nagin and
Blanco are just seriously pissing me off.

And nobody I know of has bothered to note that Nagin *DID* get those
people through the storm. And that another 10,000 or so *WERE* rescued by
the city.

Not to mention early reports are that the death toll may be considerably
lower than anybody expected.

Also, you will no more rid usenet of uninformed opinion than you will
repair the levees with a teaspoon.

And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast
ballots in the next
mayoral election?

And how did those million people get out?

In one *hell of an evacuation.

Could you be more specific? What measures did the authorities take to keep
traffic moving? Did they use the inbound lanes for outbound traffic?
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
<blockquote cite="midkpidnR4PKYXtL77eRVn-jA@megapath.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pRMUe.1577$Jp.226409@twister.southeast.rr.com"><pRMUe.1577$Jp.226409@twister.southeast.rr.com></a>, Colin Day
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cday3@sc.rr.com"><cday3@sc.rr.com></a> wrote:
<snipping for space>

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Why do I need your permission to have an opinion?

</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">If you stacked all the uninformed opinions across the entire planet into
a big pile, how much value would that pile have?
It's not a matter of "permission."
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">And what uninformed opinion did I make? In my original post, I asked a
question (someone in a different thread pointed out that even if the
people could have been moved, where could they have gone?)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I was responding to your comment about "permission." It's not a matter of
permission.
I'm sorry but I'm am sick of hearing about those buses. Nobody seems to
offer any suggestions about gas, staging, destination, etc. Nor is anybody
thinking about timing.
Such as by the time those people were trooping to the Dome, there were
only a few hours left before the first bands of Katrina would hit the
city. By *then, nobody was getting out. The police and such were being
recalled to shelters themselves to ride out the storm. Some people ended
up literally running through the rain of the first storm to get to the
Dome.
How many buses would it take to move 10,000 people? And, keep in mind, the
</pre>
</blockquote>
 
At 40 people per bus, that would require 250 buses. Actually 2,500, as
there were 
100,000 people to move. 
<blockquote cite="midkpidnR4PKYXtL77eRVn-jA@megapath.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">city buses were running routes to pick people up and bring them to the
Dome. You'd have to be running buses like that to take them to the staging
area for the buses that would head out. And you'd get only one "shot" at
it. Every outbound route was bumper-to-bumper. It took me six hours to go
100 miles. And I'm outside the city. It took longer if you left from the
area in question. You wouldn't have a chance to come back and get more
people. You'd have to move them all at once.
</pre>
</blockquote>
 
Clogged roads? Wouldn't having 40 people on a bus take up less road
space 
than 20 cars? 
<blockquote cite="midkpidnR4PKYXtL77eRVn-jA@megapath.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">So look at it the other way around. Evacuate them first.
Okay, there are (were I guess) around 100 to 130,000 people in the city
that did not have cars. How many of them do you need to evacuate? All of
them? Which 10,000 won't find rides? How do you know?
I see nobody seems to notice that the feds ended up evacuating between 20
and 30,000 people. Which means unless there are a *lot more corpses than
anybody's seen, some 70 to 100,000 carless people *did get out. But you
don't know that two days before. So do you plan on moving all of them?
</pre>
</blockquote>
 
Of course you *plan on moving all of them out. Whether or not the
authorities 
can move them out is a different question. 
 
<blockquote cite="midkpidnR4PKYXtL77eRVn-jA@megapath.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Does *anybody have enough buses to move 100,000 people?
</pre>
</blockquote>
 
How many city buses and school buses did New Orleans have? 
<blockquote cite="midkpidnR4PKYXtL77eRVn-jA@megapath.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The logistics boggle my mind. All these facile comments about Nagin and
Blanco are just seriously pissing me off.
And nobody I know of has bothered to note that Nagin *DID* get those
people through the storm. And that another 10,000 or so *WERE* rescued by
the city.
Not to mention early reports are that the death toll may be considerably
lower than anybody expected.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Also, you will no more rid usenet of uninformed opinion than you will
repair the levees with a teaspoon.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And the voters of New
Orleans,
will they have had to have planned an evacuation in order to cast
ballots in the next
mayoral election?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Those of us who were evacuated know who was busting their asses to get
people out of the area. I notice people want to blame Blanco, Nagin, and
others for the thousands who did not get out but nobody seems to want to
give them credit for the ONE MILLION who did.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">And how did those million people get out?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
In one *hell of an evacuation.
</pre>
</blockquote>
 
Could you be more specific? What measures did the authorities take to
keep 
traffic moving? Did they use the inbound lanes for outbound traffic? 
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.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	11 Sep 2005 12:50:45 PM

In <frWUe.2967$WW6.270414@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:
<lots of snippage, attributions probably screwed up>

At 40 people per bus, that would require 250 buses. Actually 2,500, as
there were
100,000 people to move.

I wonder if there are 2,500 buses in the state.

city buses were running routes to pick people up and bring them to the
Dome. You'd have to be running buses like that to take them to the
staging area for the buses that would head out. And you'd get only one
"shot" at it. Every outbound route was bumper-to-bumper. It took me six
hours to go 100 miles. And I'm outside the city. It took longer if you
left from the area in question. You wouldn't have a chance to come back
and get more people. You'd have to move them all at once.

Clogged roads? Wouldn't having 40 people on a bus take up less road space
than 20 cars?

You're talking about *additional people in the evacuation. All the
outbound routes were packed as people who could evacuate were doing so.
I talked to someone by cell (before cell phones pretty much stopped
working entirely) who was 100 miles West of Baton Rouge (I'm being
dyslexic again, I keep typing "Rogue"... sheesh) which is, in turn, about
80 miles from New Orleans (measuring from the CBD I assume).
They had traffic backed up from the evacuees passing through on the way to
Texas (I was at the tail end of that line of cars having just gotten on
that highway).

Of course you *plan on moving all of them out. Whether or not the
authorities
can move them out is a different question.

That is the issue. Whether they could.

Does *anybody have enough buses to move 100,000 people?

How many city buses and school buses did New Orleans have?

I'm not sure. Except to say I don't believe they'd have enough to move
100,000 people.

Could you be more specific? What measures did the authorities take to keep
traffic moving? Did they use the inbound lanes for outbound traffic?

Contra-flow ran from Clearview to I-55 past the Bonnet Carrie. I don't
think they were able to contra-flow the High Rise. I know Causeway wasn't.
Tolls were definitely lifted.
More than once, traffic was rerouted to lessen jams. When I left, they
were shunting highway 61 traffic to go North. I'm not sure what that was
about but it took a lot of pressure off us. State police patrols by car
and helicopter kept track of the traffic constantly and alterations in
routes were made as needed. I-10 West almost gridlocked at one point so
they started warning people to go East.
The reworked evacuation plan moved twice as many people as the Ivan
evacuation. There was a *lot done. Contra-flow construction, electronic
signs all over the place, stacks of maps at every store, the TV news and
radios and newspaper going over and over how to get where. 870, the
"emergency management" station had ongoing updates for everything from
traffic to where to find gas and hotels.
I could go on for a while describing things to you. But here's one story
that rather sums it up I think.
I pulled over once to let the dogs out for a bathroom break and to give
them water. I had time to get one dog out and a State Trooper pulled up
right next to me (startled me enough I like to jumped over the car <g>).
Asked if we were okay and before I finished the word "yes" was gone to
check on somebody else.
The evacuation was coordinated across multiple parishes, cities, and
towns. Stop lights through our little town were turned to blinking yellow
and police directed traffic to keep the flow out of the city going and let
locals get into the outbound route.
I have never seen an operation that big in my life.
Honestly, I hope I never have to again. I'm too tired. If another
hurricane headed for us, I think I'd just throw in the towel and say "take
me!" <g>
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.

User: "Colin Day"
Title: Re: Once Again. FEMA is not a First-Responder	11 Sep 2005 07:45:06 PM

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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In <frWUe.2967$WW6.270414@twister.southeast.rr.com>, Coli