| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"-" |
| Date: |
30 Mar 2005 08:28:39 AM |
| Object: |
Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to World so that
no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get an eternal life.
Jesus didn't come to condemn the world. He want's to save it. Jesus did
always what God wanted Jesus to do, try the same! If you aren't christian
already become a one. God want's that everyone who sees Jesus and believes
in Him would have eternal life. Believe in God, Jesus and paradise. Jesus
must be your lord, He is the only way to eternal life and thus to heaven.
When you die your existence won't end so believe in Jesus, He saves you from
eternal hell. This is true! Regret all your sins and ask forgiveness from
God and Jesus. Beg for mercy! You can't hide anything from God since He
knows everything and He will reveal all your sins. So confess all your sins
and keep your heart pure, God and Jesus will forgive you. When you regret
and ask forgiveness you will feel better, your heart becomes lighter and you
will have peace in your mind. Turn from bad into good! Become a reformed
person. Love God, Jesus and fellowmen. Don't be proud of your knowledge.
Money must not be the great thing in your life. The great thing must be God
and Jesus.
Gather up courage and ask Jesus to come into your life in your mind and He
will do that. When Jesus has come you will notice that. You will get rid of
all bad things like alcohol, drugs, immorality etc. You will have peace in
your mind and heart. If you ask something from God in the name of Jesus, God
will give it to you. If you have worries or you are weak and so on ask help
from Jesus in you mind. He will help you always. You will quickly start
feeeling better and suddenly you feel yourself strong. Try talking with
Jesus in your mind and be surprised!
If you feel abandoned God is just testing you. God will always love you so
never reject God. If you have bad thoughts in your mind those are from Satan
and never obey Satan. Reject all bad in your mind and you will become
stronger. Don't make resistance towards bad. When you hear or feel good,
it's issued by God because God is good. You will get perfect rules how to
live right from the Bible. From there you will find out what kind of life
God and Jesus want's you to live. Read at least the new testament through.
Would you like to be a servant of God? Just be it. Forgive always. Never
condemn anyone. Give mercy!
My one and only intention is just help you. Jesus is my lord. Who is yours?
I hope he's Jesus.
"The one who hears my words and believes in my sender, has gained eternal
life. He won't be condemned, he has already moved from death into life." -
Jesus
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 10:56:38 AM |
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<-> wrote in message news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi...
My friend, Jesus wants to save you.
I'm not stopping him. He's free to do whatever he wants to do.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 01:12:10 PM |
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<-> wrote in message news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi...
My friend, Jesus wants to save you.
That's nice sweetie, but you tell your friend Jesus to come talk to me
himself
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 10:05:46 AM |
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<-> wrote in message news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi...
My friend, Jesus wants to save you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell him to tell me that to my face :P
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 06:40:09 PM |
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<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you.
My 3 year old grandson has imaginary friends too. But I expect him to
outgrow it. What's your excuse?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 08:39:03 AM |
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<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to World so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get an
eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to do
that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful enough, but a
touch to fictional to pull it off?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul (1988)
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 09:16:18 AM |
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"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to World so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get an
eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to do
that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful enough, but a
touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in Christ.
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave you.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 01:15:34 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114lgrbop3me024@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to World so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get an
eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to do
that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful enough, but a
touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in Christ.
Was the standard wrong that it needed replacing? And what good is a standard
you can just arbitrarily set aside?
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave you.
Payment for services rendered? That's some forgiveness.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http:/www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 03:30:36 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:hvudnelJqsiBZ9ffRVn-jw@texas.net:
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114lgrbop3me024@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to World
so that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get
an eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to
do that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful enough,
but a touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in Christ.
Was the standard wrong that it needed replacing? And what good is a
standard you can just arbitrarily set aside?
And if He could put aside his standards, why didn't he just do that, and
forgive His creations?
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave you.
Payment for services rendered? That's some forgiveness.
That's the Republican version.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
We may not doubt that society in heaven consists mainly of undesirable
persons.
-- Mark Twain
Now playing: Mark Steel Lectures, Mary Shelley
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 12:06:03 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in news:114lgrbop3me024
@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to World
so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get an
eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to do
that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful enough, but a
touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in Christ.
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave you.
That is not a gift, and it's not forgiveness. Demanding a price, any
price, for forgiveness is, by definition, not forgivenss. It's a
purchase.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy
nailed to two pieces of wood.
-- George Carlin
Now playing: Mark Steel Lectures, Mary Shelley
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 12:22:40 PM |
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"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962966CBFF625255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in news:114lgrbop3me024
@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to World
so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get an
eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to do
that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful enough, but a
touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in Christ.
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave you.
That is not a gift, and it's not forgiveness. Demanding a price, any
price, for forgiveness is, by definition, not forgivenss. It's a
purchase.
If you forgive someone you have to set aside the standard that they broke in
hurting you in some way. If they did not break something that you held dear
then there would be no reason for forgiving them. Even if you forgive them
they must believe you or they will not sense forgiveness. Thats all God did.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 03:35:25 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114m5oed6hge2df@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962966CBFF625255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in news:114lgrbop3me024
@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to
World
so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get
an eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to
do that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful
enough, but a touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in Christ.
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave you.
That is not a gift, and it's not forgiveness. Demanding a price, any
price, for forgiveness is, by definition, not forgivenss. It's a
purchase.
If you forgive someone you have to set aside the standard that they
broke in hurting you in some way. If they did not break something that
you held dear then there would be no reason for forgiving them. Even
if you forgive them they must believe you or they will not sense
forgiveness. Thats all God did.
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I am or
that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the freeway
this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing. Just took a
breath and went on my way. Like the student who stole my lunch money out
of my desk. Like my children when they don't clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem to
forgive easier than God does.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
The next time someone tells me that Jesus died for my sins, I'm tempted
to reply, "Oh yeah? Well, Prometheus spent several thousand years getting
his liver ripped out by a vulture just so you could cook your food -- and
HE doesn't threaten to punish you if you don't worship him!"
-- Andrew Lias
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 04:54:21 PM |
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"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96298A4A64765255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114m5oed6hge2df@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962966CBFF625255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in news:114lgrbop3me024
@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to
World
so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would get
an eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough to
do that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful
enough, but a touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in Christ.
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave you.
That is not a gift, and it's not forgiveness. Demanding a price, any
price, for forgiveness is, by definition, not forgivenss. It's a
purchase.
If you forgive someone you have to set aside the standard that they
broke in hurting you in some way. If they did not break something that
you held dear then there would be no reason for forgiving them. Even
if you forgive them they must believe you or they will not sense
forgiveness. Thats all God did.
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I am or
that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the freeway
this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing. Just took a
breath and went on my way. Like the student who stole my lunch money out
of my desk. Like my children when they don't clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended you or
that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the ultimate sin. God
set in motion a way to forgive you by himself paying the price and yet you
will not accept his method and believe him.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 06:18:27 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114mbm87akhbbd3@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96298A4A64765255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114m5oed6hge2df@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962966CBFF625255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in news:114lgrbop3me024
@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to
World
so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would
get an eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough
to do that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful
enough, but a touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in
Christ.
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave
you.
That is not a gift, and it's not forgiveness. Demanding a price,
any price, for forgiveness is, by definition, not forgivenss.
It's a purchase.
If you forgive someone you have to set aside the standard that they
broke in hurting you in some way. If they did not break something
that you held dear then there would be no reason for forgiving
them. Even if you forgive them they must believe you or they will
not sense forgiveness. Thats all God did.
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I am or
that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the freeway
this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing. Just took
a breath and went on my way. Like the student who stole my lunch
money out of my desk. Like my children when they don't clean up
after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended you
or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the ultimate
sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself paying the
price and yet you will not accept his method and believe him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't forgiveness.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
-- Carl Sagan
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
30 Mar 2005 11:59:27 PM |
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"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9629A5EFDA426255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114mbm87akhbbd3@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96298A4A64765255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114m5oed6hge2df@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962966CBFF625255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in news:114lgrbop3me024
@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962943B365E3255229@130.133.1.4...
<-> wrote in news:424ab898$0$6155$39db0f71@news.song.fi:
My friend, Jesus wants to save you. God sent His only son to
World
so
that no man who believes in Jesus would never die and would
get an eternal life.
Why didn't He just forgive? He is powerful and merciful enough
to do that isn't He? Or is it that He's powerful and merciful
enough, but a touch to fictional to pull it off?
Thats exactly what he did, he set aside his standard in
Christ.
Forgiveness must be recieved by believing the one that forgave
you.
That is not a gift, and it's not forgiveness. Demanding a price,
any price, for forgiveness is, by definition, not forgivenss.
It's a purchase.
If you forgive someone you have to set aside the standard that they
broke in hurting you in some way. If they did not break something
that you held dear then there would be no reason for forgiving
them. Even if you forgive them they must believe you or they will
not sense forgiveness. Thats all God did.
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I am or
that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the freeway
this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing. Just took
a breath and went on my way. Like the student who stole my lunch
money out of my desk. Like my children when they don't clean up
after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended you
or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the ultimate
sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself paying the
price and yet you will not accept his method and believe him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your being
offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the relationship back. This is
not diffucult to grasp.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 10:18:46 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student who stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing vengeance. In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for *HIM* to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then that is
not forgiveness.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else -- and it hasn't -- it's
that girls should stick to girl's sports, such as hot oil wrestling and
foxy boxing and such and such.
-- Homer Simpson
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 10:43:57 AM |
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"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student who stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing vengeance. In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for *HIM* to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then that is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You must only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ. Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing is a
price.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 01:10:37 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I
am or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on
the freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing. Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the
student who stole my lunch money out of my desk. Like my
children when they don't clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem
to forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief
itself is the ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive
you by himself paying the price and yet you will not accept his
method and believe him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance. In this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the
price for *HIM* to forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn
forgiveness*, then that is not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You
must only believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in
Christ. Thats it. Who told you that you must pay a price unless you
think believing is a price.
That I must take ANY action to EARN forgiveness, even BELIEVE a certain
thing, makes the forgiveness a quid pro quo, a purchase, not forgiveness.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
The man who is always worrying about whether or not his soul would be
damned generally has a soul that isn't worth a damn.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.
.
|
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 02:12:02 PM |
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"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A71BFAC393255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I
am or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on
the freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing. Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the
student who stole my lunch money out of my desk. Like my
children when they don't clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem
to forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief
itself is the ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive
you by himself paying the price and yet you will not accept his
method and believe him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance. In this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the
price for *HIM* to forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn
forgiveness*, then that is not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You
must only believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in
Christ. Thats it. Who told you that you must pay a price unless you
think believing is a price.
That I must take ANY action to EARN forgiveness, even BELIEVE a certain
thing, makes the forgiveness a quid pro quo, a purchase, not forgiveness.
So if someone forgives you and you do not accept it what benefit do you
recieve, nothing.
This is no different then if the Governer pardons all the prisoners in
prison and opens the doors and you decide not to believe it and stay in your
cell. Its up to you, stay in the prison of sin!.
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
13 Apr 2005 07:15:12 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:12:02 -0800, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A71BFAC393255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com:
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I
am or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on
the freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing. Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the
student who stole my lunch money out of my desk. Like my
children when they don't clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem
to forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief
itself is the ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive
you by himself paying the price and yet you will not accept his
method and believe him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance. In this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the
price for *HIM* to forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn
forgiveness*, then that is not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You
must only believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in
Christ. Thats it. Who told you that you must pay a price unless you
think believing is a price.
That I must take ANY action to EARN forgiveness, even BELIEVE a certain
thing, makes the forgiveness a quid pro quo, a purchase, not forgiveness.
So if someone forgives you and you do not accept it what benefit do you
recieve, nothing.
This is no different then if the Governer pardons all the prisoners in
prison and opens the doors and you decide not to believe it and stay in your
cell. Its up to you, stay in the prison of sin!.
I have yet to be convinced that we should forgive God.
Barry
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 12:42:32 PM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student who stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing vengeance. In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for *HIM* to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then that is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists *and all the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing is a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in order to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness. It's a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in order for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the price is too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required my
forgiveness.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http:/www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 02:13:45 PM |
|
|
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:c9WdneKB8LZD3tHfRVn-uA@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I
am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk, nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student who
stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem
to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and
believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing vengeance.
In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for *HIM* to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then that is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists *and all
the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing is a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in order to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness. It's a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in order
for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the price is
too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required my
forgiveness.
This is funny, surely you must believe that whoever forgave you exists and
that they pardoned you. This is quite simple!
.
|
|
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 03:18:44 PM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oml523g9lo9a@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:c9WdneKB8LZD3tHfRVn-uA@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who I
am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student who
stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I seem
to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and
believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing vengeance.
In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for *HIM* to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then that is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists *and all
the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing is a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in order
to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness. It's a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in order
for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the price is
too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required my
forgiveness.
This is funny, surely you must believe that whoever forgave you exists and
that they pardoned you.
No, why should I? Granted, I will be unaware that I have been forgiven, but
I will have been forgiven just the same.
Maybe some lurker on aa is reading this post, and forgiving you. Do you
believe he exists? What's his name and address?
This is quite simple!
If simple means stupid, then yes.
If you have to do something to get something, then the thing you did,
however trivial, is a price by definition.
And, of course, you've already admitted that it's not just acknowledging the
existence of the god, but accepting all the nonsense that goes along with
it. If I said you had to believe in the god Odin before he forgave you, and
attest that he is king of the gods, would you consider that a price?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http:/www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 03:24:11 PM |
|
|
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:wMSdnS6i0PLk9dHfRVn-2A@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oml523g9lo9a@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:c9WdneKB8LZD3tHfRVn-uA@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who
I
am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on
the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student who
stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they
don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I
seem
to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is
the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and
believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside
your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance.
In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for *HIM*
to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then that
is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You
must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists *and
all
the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing is
a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in order
to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness. It's a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in order
for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the price
is
too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required my
forgiveness.
This is funny, surely you must believe that whoever forgave you exists
and
that they pardoned you.
No, why should I? Granted, I will be unaware that I have been forgiven,
but
I will have been forgiven just the same.
Maybe some lurker on aa is reading this post, and forgiving you. Do you
believe he exists? What's his name and address?
This is quite simple!
If simple means stupid, then yes.
If you have to do something to get something, then the thing you did,
however trivial, is a price by definition.
And, of course, you've already admitted that it's not just acknowledging
the
existence of the god, but accepting all the nonsense that goes along with
it. If I said you had to believe in the god Odin before he forgave you,
and
attest that he is king of the gods, would you consider that a price?
Finite Gods are impossible but ther can be *one* infinite God, just one.
If you thik believing means your paying a price I feel sorry for you. If
some one gave you a million dollars and all you had to do is acknowledge it
that to you would be paying a price. Rubbish!!!!
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 06:06:06 PM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114oqp6gaar6d41@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Finite Gods are impossible . . .
Why?
. . . but ther can be *one* infinite God, just one.
Why?
If you thik believing means your paying a price . . .
No, being forced to believe in order to gain something is paying a price,
jusat as being forced to pay for a bagel before you eat it is paying a
price.
. . . I feel sorry for you.
Good for you. Like forgiveness, your choice to feel sorry for me is
independent of my beliefs or actions.
If some one gave you a million dollars and all you had to do is
acknowledge it that to you would be paying a price. Rubbish!!!!
Yep. That's a price. But the million dollars is real. The eternal
reward is not.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
I don't go to mythical places with strange men.
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul (1988)
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 06:33:27 PM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oqp6gaar6d41@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:wMSdnS6i0PLk9dHfRVn-2A@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oml523g9lo9a@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:c9WdneKB8LZD3tHfRVn-uA@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know who
I
am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off on
the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student who
stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they
don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I
seem
to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself is
the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by
himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and
believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside
your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance.
In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for *HIM*
to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then that
is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You
must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists *and
all
the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing is
a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in
order
to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness. It's a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in
order
for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the price
is
too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required my
forgiveness.
This is funny, surely you must believe that whoever forgave you exists
and
that they pardoned you.
No, why should I? Granted, I will be unaware that I have been forgiven,
but
I will have been forgiven just the same.
Maybe some lurker on aa is reading this post, and forgiving you. Do you
believe he exists? What's his name and address?
This is quite simple!
If simple means stupid, then yes.
If you have to do something to get something, then the thing you did,
however trivial, is a price by definition.
And, of course, you've already admitted that it's not just acknowledging
the
existence of the god, but accepting all the nonsense that goes along with
it. If I said you had to believe in the god Odin before he forgave you,
and
attest that he is king of the gods, would you consider that a price?
Finite Gods are impossible but ther can be *one* infinite God, just one.
Thanks for dodging the question. I take it you cannot answer it without
surrendering your position with respect to the price of forgiveness.
I understand.
If you thik believing means your paying a price I feel sorry for you.
Yes, your only recourse for being unable to support your position rationally
is to resort to changing the subject and assume an unjustified moral
high-ground.
If
some one gave you a million dollars and all you had to do is acknowledge
it
that to you would be paying a price. Rubbish!!!!
Yes I would be paying a price. That's why people often go to great pains to
make their gifts ANONYMOUS.
I would be paying an even greater price for that million if I was also
required to become a Christian or Muslim to get it. And that's basically
what your supposed god is demanding of me, right? It's demanding that I
change my worldview and become a theist.
You are saying that a demand to change your worldview or religion to get
forgiveness is not a price? Answer this simple question please.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http:/www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 06:44:08 PM |
|
|
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:mvGdnehRZraBC9HfRVn-gg@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oqp6gaar6d41@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:wMSdnS6i0PLk9dHfRVn-2A@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oml523g9lo9a@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:c9WdneKB8LZD3tHfRVn-uA@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know
who
I
am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off
on
the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student
who
stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they
don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I
seem
to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself
is
the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by
himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and
believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside
your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance.
In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for
*HIM*
to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then
that
is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You
must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists *and
all
the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing
is
a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in
order
to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness. It's
a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in
order
for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the
price
is
too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required
my
forgiveness.
This is funny, surely you must believe that whoever forgave you
exists
and
that they pardoned you.
No, why should I? Granted, I will be unaware that I have been forgiven,
but
I will have been forgiven just the same.
Maybe some lurker on aa is reading this post, and forgiving you. Do you
believe he exists? What's his name and address?
This is quite simple!
If simple means stupid, then yes.
If you have to do something to get something, then the thing you did,
however trivial, is a price by definition.
And, of course, you've already admitted that it's not just
acknowledging
the
existence of the god, but accepting all the nonsense that goes along
with
it. If I said you had to believe in the god Odin before he forgave you,
and
attest that he is king of the gods, would you consider that a price?
Finite Gods are impossible but ther can be *one* infinite God, just one.
Thanks for dodging the question. I take it you cannot answer it without
surrendering your position with respect to the price of forgiveness.
I understand.
If you thik believing means your paying a price I feel sorry for you.
Yes, your only recourse for being unable to support your position
rationally
is to resort to changing the subject and assume an unjustified moral
high-ground.
If
some one gave you a million dollars and all you had to do is acknowledge
it
that to you would be paying a price. Rubbish!!!!
Yes I would be paying a price. That's why people often go to great pains
to
make their gifts ANONYMOUS.
I would be paying an even greater price for that million if I was also
required to become a Christian or Muslim to get it. And that's basically
what your supposed god is demanding of me, right? It's demanding that I
change my worldview and become a theist.
You are saying that a demand to change your worldview or religion to get
forgiveness is not a price? Answer this simple question please.
No, it is just changing your mind in accordance with the evidence provided.
Changing your mind is not a payment in any way. If so, you must feel cheated
when you change your mind when you should feel as you have been paid when
you understand the truth more clearly.
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
01 Apr 2005 12:52:25 AM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114p6g3n3hlbd5a@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:mvGdnehRZraBC9HfRVn-gg@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oqp6gaar6d41@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:wMSdnS6i0PLk9dHfRVn-2A@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oml523g9lo9a@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:c9WdneKB8LZD3tHfRVn-uA@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know
who
I
am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off
on
the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student
who
stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they
don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I
seem
to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself
is
the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by
himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and
believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside
your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving
is
paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance.
In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for
*HIM*
to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then
that
is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all.
You
must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists
*and
all
the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing
is
a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in
order
to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness.
It's
a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in
order
for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the
price
is
too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required
my
forgiveness.
This is funny, surely you must believe that whoever forgave you
exists
and
that they pardoned you.
No, why should I? Granted, I will be unaware that I have been
forgiven,
but
I will have been forgiven just the same.
Maybe some lurker on aa is reading this post, and forgiving you. Do
you
believe he exists? What's his name and address?
This is quite simple!
If simple means stupid, then yes.
If you have to do something to get something, then the thing you did,
however trivial, is a price by definition.
And, of course, you've already admitted that it's not just
acknowledging
the
existence of the god, but accepting all the nonsense that goes along
with
it. If I said you had to believe in the god Odin before he forgave
you,
and
attest that he is king of the gods, would you consider that a price?
Finite Gods are impossible but ther can be *one* infinite God, just
one.
Thanks for dodging the question. I take it you cannot answer it without
surrendering your position with respect to the price of forgiveness.
I understand.
If you thik believing means your paying a price I feel sorry for you.
Yes, your only recourse for being unable to support your position
rationally
is to resort to changing the subject and assume an unjustified moral
high-ground.
If
some one gave you a million dollars and all you had to do is
acknowledge
it
that to you would be paying a price. Rubbish!!!!
Yes I would be paying a price. That's why people often go to great pains
to
make their gifts ANONYMOUS.
I would be paying an even greater price for that million if I was also
required to become a Christian or Muslim to get it. And that's basically
what your supposed god is demanding of me, right? It's demanding that I
change my worldview and become a theist.
You are saying that a demand to change your worldview or religion to get
forgiveness is not a price? Answer this simple question please.
No, it is just changing your mind in accordance with the evidence
provided.
So I take it you've never invested anything in your beliefs? I seriously
doubt that. I think you would go through some suffering if shown and
convinced that there was no god.
That would be a price, would it not?
Changing your mind is not a payment in any way.
So you would think nothing of losing your faith?
If so, you must feel cheated
when you change your mind when you should feel as you have been paid when
you understand the truth more clearly.
Yes, I have to give up something I cherished, what I thought was the truth.
That can be very unpleasant.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Only Jesus saves, believe in Him! |
31 Mar 2005 08:26:04 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:44:08 -0800, "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:mvGdnehRZraBC9HfRVn-gg@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oqp6gaar6d41@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:wMSdnS6i0PLk9dHfRVn-2A@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oml523g9lo9a@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:c9WdneKB8LZD3tHfRVn-uA@texas.net...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:114oabonicjhnc0@corp.supernews.com...
"Enkidu" <zwi6iv402@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962A549C45E42255229@130.133.1.4...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:114n4j9pcdp952e@corp.supernews.com:
[snip]
Crap! I forgive people all the time, and they don't know
who
I
am
or that I forgave them. Like that ***** who cut me off
on
the
freeway this morning. Didn't shout, flip him off, honk,
nothing.
Just took a breath and went on my way. Like the student
who
stole
my lunch money out of my desk. Like my children when they
don't
clean up after themselves.
Am I better than God? I doubt I'm anything special, but I
seem
to
forgive easier than God does.
Since yo did forgive them, great. They neither knew they
offended
you or that you forgave them. In your case unbelief itself
is
the
ultimate sin. God set in motion a way to forgive you by
himself
paying the price and yet you will not accept his method and
believe
him.
Why must God charge a price? And if He does, it isn't
forgiveness.
All forgiveness requires a price, it requires you to set aside
your
being offended and sacrificing it in order to bring the
relationship
back. This is not diffucult to grasp.
What you are suggesting is that the person doing the forgiving is
paying
the price, letting go of justified anger, perhaps forgoing
vengeance.
In
this, I agree. So why does God ask *ME* to pay the price for
*HIM*
to
forgive? If *I* have to *pay him* to *earn forgiveness*, then
that
is
not forgiveness.
God does not require you to pay any price, he has done it all. You
must
only
believe that he exists and that he has forgiven you in Christ.
THAT'S the price! Demanding that we believe that the god exists *and
all
the
rest* IS the price.
Thats it.
Who told you that you must pay a price unless you think believing
is
a
price.
Yes! Believing is a price! It's something you are FORCED to do in
order
to
get the forgiveness. It's a string attached to the forgiveness. It's
a
payment for services rendered. It's a PRICE.
Sheesh!
Would you think it's a price if I demanded that you worship me in
order
for
me to forgive you? Of course you would, and you would think the
price
is
too
high no matter what hypothetical thing you did to me that required
my
forgiveness.
This is funny, surely you must believe that whoever forgave you
exists
and
that they pardoned you.
No, why should I? Granted, I will be unaware that I have been forgiven,
but
I will have been forgiven just the same.
Maybe some lurker on aa is reading this post, and forgiving you. Do you
believe he exists? What's his name and address?
This is quite simple!
If simple means stupid, then yes.
If you have to do something to get something, then the thing you did,
however trivial, is a price by definition.
And, of course, you've already admitted that it's not just
acknowledging
the
existence of the god, but accepting all the nonsense that goes along
with
it. If I said you had to believe in the god Odin before he forgave you,
and
attest that he is king of the gods, would you consider that a price?
Finite Gods are impossible but ther can be *one* infinite God, just one.
Thanks for dodging the question. I take it you cannot answer it without
surrenderin | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
