| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
16 Jan 2005 10:29:06 AM |
| Object: |
Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
A geologist wrote a reply to the Bogart's mindnumbingly stupid Op-Ed
from last week ("The difference between theories and laws"
http://ydr.com/story/op-ed/55034/ )
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The charge of conspiracy that scientists are misleading the public to
protect science is lamentable. Most any scientist would love to insure
his or her everlasting fame by developing a scientific theory that
successfully replaces a current theory. The fact that scientists have
to keep refuting false and misleading creationist charges makes one
wonder where the real conspiracy actually is.
If other “flaws” in evolutionary theory are of the same caliber as
those listed in the article in question, I doubt science has much to
worry about except for the apparent pervasiveness of ignorance over
knowledge in America today.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://ydr.com/story/op-ed/55597/
J. Spaceman
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
16 Jan 2005 12:15:41 PM |
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He nailed it on the head, and he proved that Frank J was entirely
correct, as well.
Frank J wrote:
I enjoyed PZ'a article as usual (I'll ignore the typo), but the
conclusion that the Bogarts do not understand what they are saying is
not necessarily warranted. I know that I'm perhaps the one that
repeats
this the most, but the possibility that they *know* that they are
speaking nonsense cannot be overlooked.
Perhaps not repeated enough, cause I've seen it go both ways, depending
on how much "red" or "blue" willful ignorance is tainting the clariity
of honest science.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
17 Jan 2005 01:45:37 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 05:29:06 -0500, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> said in alt.atheism:
A geologist wrote a reply to the Bogart's mindnumbingly stupid Op-Ed
from last week ("The difference between theories and laws"
http://ydr.com/story/op-ed/55034/ )
Nothing more than the usual cretinist claptrap. ("If humans evolved
from the lower primates (chimps, monkeys and gorillas), then where are
the “in-between” specimens? Where are the chimps that can use verbal
language?") How many chimps that can use verbal language would they
like to meet? Not that science claims that we evolved from current
species.
"Couple this serious gap in the data to support evolutionary theory
with the fact that the theory itself actually violates the Second Law
of Thermodynamics."
Can't they at least come up with NEW garbage?
--
"religion did for *****, what Stonehenge did for rocks"
- The World Famous Tink
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "ođin" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
17 Jan 2005 06:51:21 AM |
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A geologist wrote a reply to the Bogart's mindnumbingly stupid Op-Ed
from last week ("The difference between theories and laws"
http://ydr.com/story/op-ed/55034/ )
Nothing more than the usual cretinist claptrap. ("If humans evolved
from the lower primates (chimps, monkeys and gorillas), then where are
the "in-between" specimens? Where are the chimps that can use verbal
language?") How many chimps that can use verbal language would they
like to meet? Not that science claims that we evolved from current
species.
The "in-between" specimens? We ate them... Last ones that might have been
verbal were killed off about 20,000 years ago. But it is interesting that
species tend to cluster into tight groupings of consistent DNA sequences...
Not sure why... I think that it is an intereting aspect of evolution... but
it is not explained with traditional SOF theory. I suspect that each species
tends to head towards genetic consistency through several possible
mechanisms... But rather than spill my gut, what do you all think is
envolved??? Why are the species so clumpy??? Kind of like galaxies...
"Couple this serious gap in the data to support evolutionary theory
with the fact that the theory itself actually violates the Second Law
of Thermodynamics."
Ha ha... and thermodynamic law on entropy forbids crystal growth and
refrigerators... right... As if this thermodynamic law says anything about
local entropy!!!
Besides, even in the universe as a closed system, the second law can be
broken, especial in very small situations... that can run in reverse...
(also what about quantum effects and the 2nd law???) the second law of
thermodynamics descibes behavior of macroscopic systems, but life started at
a microscopic level.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
17 Jan 2005 11:49:36 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:51:21 -0800, "ođin" <ođin@ragnarok.com> said in
alt.atheism:
A geologist wrote a reply to the Bogart's mindnumbingly stupid Op-Ed
from last week ("The difference between theories and laws"
http://ydr.com/story/op-ed/55034/ )
Nothing more than the usual cretinist claptrap. ("If humans evolved
from the lower primates (chimps, monkeys and gorillas), then where are
the "in-between" specimens? Where are the chimps that can use verbal
language?") How many chimps that can use verbal language would they
like to meet? Not that science claims that we evolved from current
species.
The "in-between" specimens? We ate them... Last ones that might have been
verbal were killed off about 20,000 years ago.
There are currently chimps and gorillas with demonstrated verbal
skills. (Note that neither the original article nor I said "oral"
skills. "Verbal" isn't limited to speech.)
But it is interesting that
species tend to cluster into tight groupings of consistent DNA sequences...
Not sure why... I think that it is an intereting aspect of evolution... but
it is not explained with traditional SOF theory. I suspect that each species
tends to head towards genetic consistency through several possible
mechanisms... But rather than spill my gut, what do you all think is
envolved??? Why are the species so clumpy?
Huh?
Do you mean that all anthropoids resemble each other more closely than
they resemble non-anthropoids? All fish? All ungulates? Etc?
--
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "ođin" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
18 Jan 2005 04:36:35 AM |
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There are currently chimps and gorillas with demonstrated verbal
skills. (Note that neither the original article nor I said "oral"
skills. "Verbal" isn't limited to speech.)
True. Limited, but true. At least it seems that way.
Do you mean that all anthropoids resemble each other more closely than
they resemble non-anthropoids? All fish? All ungulates? Etc?
Yes. But more to the point, there are few representatives today that are
true chimeras (intermediate types).
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
19 Jan 2005 02:22:22 AM |
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:36:35 -0800, "ođin" <ođin@ragnarok.com> said in
alt.atheism:
Do you mean that all anthropoids resemble each other more closely than
they resemble non-anthropoids? All fish? All ungulates? Etc?
Yes.
All <any group's members> resemble <other members of that group> than
they resemble <members of another group>.
But more to the point, there are few representatives today that are
true chimeras (intermediate types).
ALL living things that reproduce are intermediates between what came
before and what comes after.
--
"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye
shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it,
but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great
enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."
- Mark Twain, a Biography
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "ođin" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
19 Jan 2005 08:23:45 AM |
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Do you mean that all anthropoids resemble each other more closely than
they resemble non-anthropoids? All fish? All ungulates? Etc?
Yes.
All <any group's members> resemble <other members of that group> than
they resemble <members of another group>.
You just do not get it...
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
20 Jan 2005 09:13:31 AM |
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:23:45 -0800, "ođin" <ođin@ragnarok.com> said in
alt.atheism:
Do you mean that all anthropoids resemble each other more closely than
they resemble non-anthropoids? All fish? All ungulates? Etc?
Yes.
All <any group's members> resemble <other members of that group> than
they resemble <members of another group>.
You just do not get it...
I can't catch what you don't throw.
(BTW, leaving my name in your response will ensure that I read it.)
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "John M Price PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Op-Ed: The real difference between theories, laws |
18 Jan 2005 12:26:44 AM |
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In article <phjou0dl1qtuu9a298vkisu6nu590ngo4j@4ax.com> from sci.skeptic
Al Klein wrote:
--
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
Small nit. Last I looked, only the Senate is required for treaty
ratification. Prior to the change in 1912 or so, it was the
representative body of the legislatures of the various States. Of course
now, with direct election of senators, it is just another group of
panderers, just like the People's house on the other side of the Capitol.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
Prove all things; hold fast the valuable.
- 1Thes5:21
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