| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Elroy Willis" |
| Date: |
24 Feb 2005 05:40:01 AM |
| Object: |
OT - Brainman |
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
"Daniel T. is a "super brain". He can calculate numbers to hundreds of
decimal points in seconds and learn new languages in a week. Through a
series of real world challenges and complex number problems, Daniel's
amazing abilities are demonstrated."
It was one of the most interesting shows I've seen in quite a while,
and I hope they plan on doing more than just this one show about
him.
He actually recited pi to 20,000 digits in one demonstration and he
didn't make a single mistake. Truly amazing stuff!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 06:15:46 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:40:01 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
"Daniel T. is a "super brain". He can calculate numbers to hundreds of
decimal points in seconds and learn new languages in a week. Through a
series of real world challenges and complex number problems, Daniel's
amazing abilities are demonstrated."
It was one of the most interesting shows I've seen in quite a while, and I
hope they plan on doing more than just this one show about him.
He actually recited pi to 20,000 digits in one demonstration and he didn't
make a single mistake. Truly amazing stuff!
Yes, it was a very interesting show. Dan seems to have hit a "sweet
spot:" autistic enough to have incredible calculating abilities, but still
able to function and interact socially. I'll bet that he's not much fun
at cocktail parties, though.
The part I found most interesting was that he doesn't really seem to *try*
to solve the problems; he just thinks about the numbers and the answer
comes to him. Equally fascinating was the guy who got hit in the head
with a baseball at age ten, and subsequently developed the ability to
calculate dates and remember the weather.
It demonstrates how much we don't know about how the brain works. This is
the kind of stuff I think of whenever I hear a creationist talk about what
isn't possible thru nature alone.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
|
|
|
| User: "The other Donald" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 08:30:56 AM |
|
|
"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.02.24.12.15.34.619713@stopspam.net...
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:40:01 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
"Daniel T. is a "super brain". He can calculate numbers to hundreds of
decimal points in seconds and learn new languages in a week. Through a
series of real world challenges and complex number problems, Daniel's
amazing abilities are demonstrated."
It was one of the most interesting shows I've seen in quite a while, and
I
hope they plan on doing more than just this one show about him.
He actually recited pi to 20,000 digits in one demonstration and he
didn't
make a single mistake. Truly amazing stuff!
Yes, it was a very interesting show. Dan seems to have hit a "sweet
spot:" autistic enough to have incredible calculating abilities, but still
able to function and interact socially. I'll bet that he's not much fun
at cocktail parties, though.
The part I found most interesting was that he doesn't really seem to *try*
to solve the problems; he just thinks about the numbers and the answer
comes to him. Equally fascinating was the guy who got hit in the head
with a baseball at age ten, and subsequently developed the ability to
calculate dates and remember the weather.
Oh, the temptation......Walk into a church with a sack full of baseballs and
play "Bad Pitching Machine." Beaning fundies for fun, profit and
intelligence enhancement.
"Our Father, who art...." <whack!> "What the hell am I doing here?"
You do realize that this epiphany would put the entire educational system
and therapy industry out of business?
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 04:01:31 PM |
|
|
The other Donald <the_donald_13@yeehaw3.com> wrote in alt.atheism
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message
Yes, it was a very interesting show. Dan seems to have hit a "sweet
spot:" autistic enough to have incredible calculating abilities, but still
able to function and interact socially. I'll bet that he's not much fun
at cocktail parties, though.
The part I found most interesting was that he doesn't really seem to *try*
to solve the problems; he just thinks about the numbers and the answer
comes to him. Equally fascinating was the guy who got hit in the head
with a baseball at age ten, and subsequently developed the ability to
calculate dates and remember the weather.
Oh, the temptation......Walk into a church with a sack full of baseballs and
play "Bad Pitching Machine." Beaning fundies for fun, profit and
intelligence enhancement.
"Our Father, who art...." <whack!> "What the hell am I doing here?"
You do realize that this epiphany would put the entire educational system
and therapy industry out of business?
How about those nuns that whack students on the knuckles with
rulers or yardsticks?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 07:05:19 AM |
|
|
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
"Daniel T. is a "super brain". He can calculate numbers to hundreds of
decimal points in seconds and learn new languages in a week. Through a
series of real world challenges and complex number problems, Daniel's
amazing abilities are demonstrated."
It was one of the most interesting shows I've seen in quite a while, and I
hope they plan on doing more than just this one show about him.
He actually recited pi to 20,000 digits in one demonstration and he didn't
make a single mistake. Truly amazing stuff!
Yes, it was a very interesting show. Dan seems to have hit a "sweet
spot:" autistic enough to have incredible calculating abilities, but still
able to function and interact socially.
The fact that he can describe his mental processes to the researchers
in a mostly coherent manner makes all the difference, imo. Also, the
fact that he's willing to put himself under scrutiny and be tested
without feeling like a guinea pig is another bonus.
I'll bet that he's not much fun at cocktail parties, though.
That depends on who's at the party. If I was there, I'd be over there
next to him asking him some questions, maybe testing him to recite
the word beer in 70 different languages or just talking to him,
instead of considering him a freak or social outcast..
The part I found most interesting was that he doesn't really seem to *try*
to solve the problems; he just thinks about the numbers and the answer
comes to him.
I found the fact that he sees numbers as different sized shapes in his
mind as one of the most fascinating things. Most people see written
numbers as shapes when we see them on paper or onscreen, but
they generally aren't depicted in our mind as being of different
sizes. All the numbers are in one similar font size, so to speak.
One of the experiments they performed on him which wasn't shown on
the show last night is a test where they jumbled up the sizes of
different numbers on a sheet of paper and asked Dan to memorize
them. He did really poorly on that version of the test compared to
a similar test in which the sizes of the fonts of the numbers were
what he claims to naturally see in his head.
You can view the video of the test at the link above, if you're
interested.
Equally fascinating was the guy who got hit in the head with a baseball
at age ten, and subsequently developed the ability to calculate dates
and remember the weather.
I have to wonder how useful that ability might be to somebody in
everyday life. Is it just useless trivia, or can it be used for the
benefit of somebody? It doesn't seem to be useful for future
predictions, does it?
It demonstrates how much we don't know about how the brain works. This
is the kind of stuff I think of whenever I hear a creationist talk about what
isn't possible thru nature alone.
Indeed. I'm sure many of them will consider Daniel as having some
kind of "gift from god" or something like that.
One other part of the show that I found most interesting was the
Chinese children who were able to visualize "mental abacuses" in
their minds while doing math calculations. After years and years of
using a physical abacus, they got to the point that they didn't
actually need a physical abacus at all.
I noticed that the children still moved their fingers while doing the
mental calculations, like they were pretending to use an actual
physical abacus. This is also seen in people who still need to use
their fingers to count things, so I don't see it as anything
supernatural going on.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 09:05:24 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:05:19 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
It's interesting that a large number of highly intelligent people
demonstrate some form of synesthesia. Feynman comes to mind. I believe
Einstein had it too. Don't know what it means, of course, but it is an
interesting association.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 03:58:59 PM |
|
|
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
It's interesting that a large number of highly intelligent people
demonstrate some form of synesthesia. Feynman comes to mind. I believe
Einstein had it too. Don't know what it means, of course, but it is an
interesting association.
It might be due to the fact that the autistics seem see the world
through their own special filter, with the filter being whatever they
seem to be naturally interested in or good at recognizing. In the
above show, Daniel said from a very early age he liked numbers, and so
from then on, when he looks at the world around him, he sees or tries
to see numbers everywhere.
When he was taken to New York, and out on the streets, he said that
he became somewhat confused, because he was trying to see numbers
everywhere around him in all the confusion.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
25 Feb 2005 06:37:26 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:58:59 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
It's interesting that a large number of highly intelligent people
demonstrate some form of synesthesia. Feynman comes to mind. I believe
Einstein had it too. Don't know what it means, of course, but it is an
interesting association.
It might be due to the fact that the autistics seem see the world through
their own special filter, with the filter being whatever they seem to be
naturally interested in or good at recognizing. In the above show, Daniel
said from a very early age he liked numbers, and so from then on, when he
looks at the world around him, he sees or tries to see numbers everywhere.
When he was taken to New York, and out on the streets, he said that he
became somewhat confused, because he was trying to see numbers everywhere
around him in all the confusion.
I am currently reading the book, "Big Bang", which traces the development
of the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe. The author talks
about one of the cosmologists, Dr. Hoyle, and how, at the age of 4, he
taught himself how to tell time. He deduced that there was a relationship
between the grandfather clock and the "time", so he kept asking his
parents what time it was, then compared the answer to the clock. He was
one of those kids that quit school because his teachers were too stupid to
tolerate.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
25 Feb 2005 08:29:15 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:58:59 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
It's interesting that a large number of highly intelligent people
demonstrate some form of synesthesia. Feynman comes to mind. I believe
Einstein had it too. Don't know what it means, of course, but it is an
interesting association.
It might be due to the fact that the autistics seem see the world
through their own special filter, with the filter being whatever they
seem to be naturally interested in or good at recognizing. In the
above show, Daniel said from a very early age he liked numbers, and so
from then on, when he looks at the world around him, he sees or tries
to see numbers everywhere.
When he was taken to New York, and out on the streets, he said that
he became somewhat confused, because he was trying to see numbers
everywhere around him in all the confusion.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=autistic
A psychiatric disorder of childhood characterized by marked deficits
in communication and social interaction, preoccupation with fantasy,
language impairment, and abnormal behavior, such as repetitive acts
and excessive attachment to certain objects. It is usually associated
with intellectual impairment.
/end
There you have superstition in a nutshell.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 03:30:28 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:05:19 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
I found the fact that he sees numbers as different sized shapes in his
mind as one of the most fascinating things. Most people see written
numbers as shapes when we see them on paper or onscreen, but
they generally aren't depicted in our mind as being of different
sizes. All the numbers are in one similar font size, so to speak.
From what I've heard (from autistics), autistics think in pictures,
not in words. This seems to be just another aspect of that.
How it gives him the ability to manipulate large numbers almost
instantaneously is another matter.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 03:51:34 PM |
|
|
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
I found the fact that he sees numbers as different sized shapes in his
mind as one of the most fascinating things. Most people see written
numbers as shapes when we see them on paper or onscreen, but
they generally aren't depicted in our mind as being of different
sizes. All the numbers are in one similar font size, so to speak.
From what I've heard (from autistics), autistics think in pictures,
not in words. This seems to be just another aspect of that.
How it gives him the ability to manipulate large numbers almost
instantaneously is another matter.
Did you actually see the show?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 05:09:43 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:51:34 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
I found the fact that he sees numbers as different sized shapes in his
mind as one of the most fascinating things. Most people see written
numbers as shapes when we see them on paper or onscreen, but
they generally aren't depicted in our mind as being of different
sizes. All the numbers are in one similar font size, so to speak.
From what I've heard (from autistics), autistics think in pictures,
not in words. This seems to be just another aspect of that.
How it gives him the ability to manipulate large numbers almost
instantaneously is another matter.
Did you actually see the show?
No, but I've seen quite a few on autism, and known some autistic
people.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social
ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he
had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 05:44:25 PM |
|
|
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
I found the fact that he sees numbers as different sized shapes in his
mind as one of the most fascinating things. Most people see written
numbers as shapes when we see them on paper or onscreen, but
they generally aren't depicted in our mind as being of different
sizes. All the numbers are in one similar font size, so to speak.
From what I've heard (from autistics), autistics think in pictures,
not in words. This seems to be just another aspect of that.
How it gives him the ability to manipulate large numbers almost
instantaneously is another matter.
Did you actually see the show?
No, but I've seen quite a few on autism, and known some autistic
people.
If you get the science channel and the show is repeated, which I'm
sure it will be, you should give it a watch. Daniel seems to be
autistic in a way, but he's way more intelligible and open to
investigation than are most autistic people.
One of the segments of the show was about him meeting the
actual savant man which the Rain Man movie was based on. The two
of them spent a few hours together talking to each other, and it was
quite interesting to watch them interact.
Then Daniel went to Las Vegas and tried his memory skills at the
blackjack table, and the results were inconclusive, imo. He was
losing bigtime using just his memory and counting cards, and then he
said he switched to "intuition mode" and then won a bunch of money
by splitting a pair of sevens against the dealer's 10 upcard. He
decided to split the 7's and then another 7 came up, and he decided to
split it as well. Then he drew exactly the right cards to get a 21 on
all three of the hands which all started out with a 7. He walked away
at that point, from what I could tell...
You can see a few short video clips here if you're interested:
http://media.science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/videogallery/videogallery.html
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 07:15:57 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:44:25 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> said in alt.atheism:
http://media.science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/videogallery/videogallery.html
Very interesting. Nothing I can find for the future, though.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise
as false, and by the rulers as useful."
- Seneca the Younger
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pat Kiewicz" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
25 Feb 2005 08:58:14 AM |
|
|
Al Klein said:
From what I've heard (from autistics), autistics think in pictures,
not in words. This seems to be just another aspect of that.
Spend any time in alt.support.autism, and you'll find that not all
autistic people think in pictures, and some of them find that generalization
annoying. There are autists that are *hyper*lexic (I think my daughter
would easily fall into that catagory^).
I do believe Temple Grandin (the most famous autist who 'thinks in
pictures') has come to the realization that she over generalized. (She's
met many more autistic people after writing her book than she'd met
before.)
My own opinion is that 'mind-blindness' is perhaps the most unifying
characteristic of autism--this includes a certain lack of awareness even
of their *own* mental states. (BTW, 'mind-blindness' does not preclude
empathy and emotion.)
^ Words flow from her almost constantly... Somene can know and use a
lot of words and still have problems with pragmatic aspects of speech and
the recognition and interpretation of body language, tone of voice,
metaphors, etc. (Being brilliant helps, but only with some of this.)
--
Pat K. aa#1154 ('someplace.net' is comcast)
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
25 Feb 2005 01:01:05 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:58:14 -0600, (Pat
Kiewicz) said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein said:
From what I've heard (from autistics), autistics think in pictures,
not in words. This seems to be just another aspect of that.
Spend any time in alt.support.autism, and you'll find that not all
autistic people think in pictures, and some of them find that generalization
annoying. There are autists that are *hyper*lexic (I think my daughter
would easily fall into that catagory^).
I do believe Temple Grandin (the most famous autist who 'thinks in
pictures') has come to the realization that she over generalized. (She's
met many more autistic people after writing her book than she'd met
before.)
My own opinion is that 'mind-blindness' is perhaps the most unifying
characteristic of autism--this includes a certain lack of awareness even
of their *own* mental states. (BTW, 'mind-blindness' does not preclude
empathy and emotion.)
^ Words flow from her almost constantly... Somene can know and use a
lot of words and still have problems with pragmatic aspects of speech and
the recognition and interpretation of body language, tone of voice,
metaphors, etc. (Being brilliant helps, but only with some of this.)
Thanks, Pat. I've learned something today.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"They laughed at Newton, they laughed at Einstein, but they also laughed at
Bozo the Clown."
- Carl Sagan
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mike Ruskai" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - Brainman |
24 Feb 2005 09:29:46 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:40:01 GMT, Elroy Willis wrote:
Anybody else catch "Brainman" on Science Channel last night?
From:
http://science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/brainman.html
"Daniel T. is a "super brain". He can calculate numbers to hundreds of
decimal points in seconds and learn new languages in a week. Through a
series of real world challenges and complex number problems, Daniel's
amazing abilities are demonstrated."
It was one of the most interesting shows I've seen in quite a while,
and I hope they plan on doing more than just this one show about
him.
He actually recited pi to 20,000 digits in one demonstration and he
didn't make a single mistake. Truly amazing stuff!
I only saw some of the tail end of that show. I didn't think memorizing a
chess board was especially hard - it's just memorizing a sequence of 64
words, after all.
The Pi trick, while not really easy, isn't a feat of memory. A couple
(non-simple) calculations repeated over and over will give you as many
decimal places as you need, on the fly.
I was most impressed with his apparent normalcy. One recurring theme
among savants is that their abilities come at a price - the loss of normal
function in other areas, frequently social interaction.
--
- Mike
Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
