| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Phillip Brown" |
| Date: |
12 Nov 2003 10:51:12 PM |
| Object: |
OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/12/1068329629547.html
Do daughters cause divorce?
November 13, 2003
If you want to prevent your own divorce, don?t have daughters, have
sons. As startling as it may seem, a new study from the United States
has shown that parents of girls are 5 per cent more likely to divorce
than parents of boys.
Not only that, in the US at least, the more daughters you have, the
worse the effect on your marriage: a couple with two girls is 8 per cent
more likely to divorce than a couple with two boys. A couple with three
daughters is 13 per cent more likely to divorce than a couple with three
sons.
"It certainly surprised me," says one of the researchers, Gordon Dahl,
who is an associate professor of economics at the University of
Rochester in New York. "You wouldn?t think that having girls made a
difference to whether or not you get a divorce, but it very clearly does."
Dahl and his colleague, fellow economist Enrico Moretti from University
of California, Los Angeles, based their study on data from 6 million
mothers, which was extracted from the past 60 years of the US census.
"There is no room for statistical error," says Dahl. "In a sample that
size, you have smoothed out any differences you might get from looking
at a group with too many white mothers, or too many black mothers, or
too many people with financial problems. All of life?s circumstances are
balanced across a group this size.
"But, even when we controlled for race, for age, for the education of
the mother, the figures stayed the same. There is no doubt about it: the
gender of your children makes a difference, when it comes to whether or
not you divorce."
Ever since the study was published ? first on the website, Slate.com,
and then in /The New York Times/, debate has raged over what it means.
Do daughters cause divorce? Or is it that sons prevent divorce?
"We don?t know," says Dahl. "All we can say is that couples with girls
get divorced more often than couples with boys. We also know that
couples who have all boys have the lowest rate of divorce, and that
couples with all girls have the highest rate of divorce. And we know
that couples who have girls, and then go on to have a boy, have a lower
rate of divorce than couples who have only girls. We have some ideas why
this might be, but we can?t know for sure."
Dahl posits that some men have a preference for a male heir, who will
carry on the family name. If that sounds old-fashioned, here?s another
idea: maybe sons make marriages stronger.
"Dads tend to do more with their sons than they do with their daughters,
like go out in the back yard and play ball," said Dahl. "And in my
opinion, families who do things together are much stronger than families
who don?t do things together. Maybe dads feel they have a special role
to play if they have sons."
There are other possibilities: maybe women stay married when they have
sons because they want their boys to have a male role model. Or maybe
they leave a bad marriage if they have daughters, because they don?t
want their girls exposed to a bad male role model.
Adding to the intrigue is Shelly Lundberg, a professor of economics at
the University of Washington, who last year conducted a study that found
that single mothers who give birth to sons were 42 per cent more likely
to marry the child?s father than single mothers who give birth to girls.
"In part, it was because women were more interested in getting married
if they had boys," Lundberg says.
"Maybe that was because they thought baby boys needed a man around, to
be a role model. But the men were also more interested in getting
married when the baby was a boy."
Lundberg says she had some "very bizarre" reactions from colleagues when
she presented her findings at various seminars. "We had very heated
discussions, which is quite unusual for economists," she chuckled.
"I had quite a few colleagues take me aside to assure me they loved
their daughters just as much as they loved their sons. But of course, we
never said they didn?t."
Lundberg?s theory ? that men prefer sons ? is backed by Dahl?s study,
which also showed that a couple with two daughters is more likely to
have a third child than a couple with two sons.
"In families with girls, the parents are more likely to say: let?s try
one more time," says Dahl. "But in families with boys, they say, no,
we?re OK with what we have."
Now, that could be because two boys make quite enough noise. Or maybe
couples with daughters find the experience so pleasant, they are happy
to add to their brood. But it could also be that couples without sons
keep trying because a family feels incomplete without a boy.
"Variety is very important to people," says Dahl. "In fact, although the
data about girls has got the most attention, one of the main things our
study showed is that parents seem to prefer one child of each gender."
To explain: if a couple has two children, and they are of different
genders, the parents are not as likely to have a third child, as they
would be if their first two children were of the same gender.
For his part, Dahl has three children, all of them daughters, which
surely makes him either nervous about his marriage, or else desirous of
a fourth child? "I?ll say upfront, I?m a Mormon," he says with a laugh.
"I am one of five and my wife is one of five, and we like a big family.
I have three daughters, all are perfect, and I wouldn?t want it any
other way."
And yes, they might try for another, and won?t mind if it?s a girl, or a
boy.
*Key findings:*
# A couple with one daughter is 5 per cent more likely to divorce than a
couple with one son.
# The more daughters, the greater the effect: a couple with three
daughters is 13 per cent more likely to divorce than a couple with three
sons.
# Couples with all boys have the lowest divorce rate of any family type.
# Couples with all girls have the highest divorce rate of any family type.
# The arrival of a boy offers some protection from divorce, since
mixed-gender families divorce less often than families with only girls.
# A couple with two daughters is more likely to have a third child than a
couple with two sons.
# Single mothers who give birth to a boy are 42 per cent more likely to
marry the father than those with girls.
/This story was found at:
*http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/12/1068329629547.html* /
--
phillip brown
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| User: "Dr. DuFonet" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
14 Nov 2003 05:07:45 AM |
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"Phillip Brown" <phillipbrownau@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.13.04.51.11.278517@netscape.net...
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/12/1068329629547.html
Do daughters cause divorce?
November 13, 2003
If you want to prevent your own divorce, don?t have daughters, have
sons. As startling as it may seem, a new study from the United States
has shown that parents of girls are 5 per cent more likely to divorce
than parents of boys.
Not only that, in the US at least, the more daughters you have, the
worse the effect on your marriage: a couple with two girls is 8 per cent
more likely to divorce than a couple with two boys. A couple with three
daughters is 13 per cent more likely to divorce than a couple with three
sons.
<etc>
The high divorce rate is caused by the Chinese Zodiac.
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
13 Nov 2003 08:11:22 AM |
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"Phillip Brown" <phillipbrownau@netscape.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.13.04.51.11.278517@netscape.net>...
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/12/1068329629547.html
Do daughters cause divorce?
November 13, 2003
If you want to prevent your own divorce, don?t have daughters, have
sons. As startling as it may seem, a new study from the United States
has shown that parents of girls are 5 per cent more likely to divorce
than parents of boys.
[snip]
Dahl posits that some men have a preference for a male heir, who will
carry on the family name. If that sounds old-fashioned, here?s another
idea: maybe sons make marriages stronger.
"Dads tend to do more with their sons than they do with their daughters,
like go out in the back yard and play ball," said Dahl. "And in my
opinion, families who do things together are much stronger than families
who don?t do things together. Maybe dads feel they have a special role
to play if they have sons."
[snip psychobabble]
"I'm not a psycological researcher, but, as an economist, I feel
qualified to psychoanalyize the population"
jwk
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
14 Nov 2003 10:47:47 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:51:12 +1100, "Phillip Brown"
<phillipbrownau@netscape.net> posted in alt.atheism:
"Dads tend to do more with their sons than they do with their daughters,
like go out in the back yard and play ball," said Dahl. "And in my
opinion, families who do things together are much stronger than families
who don?t do things together. Maybe dads feel they have a special role
to play if they have sons."
My wife has a simpler explanation:
Fathers of sons spend their time playing with their sons, so the wives
have to put up with them less.
--
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Yang" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
13 Nov 2003 01:57:32 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:51:12 +1100, "Phillip Brown"
<phillipbrownau@netscape.net> wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/12/1068329629547.html
Do daughters cause divorce?
I can't speak for other cultures, but for Chinese families, you do see
a lot of that keep-trying-till-you-have-a-boy phenomenon described in
the article. My little brother's godmother have four daughters and the
fifth kid was a son, at which point they stopped having kids.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -525 billion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -397 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Mike Smith" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
14 Nov 2003 09:09:56 AM |
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(Yang) wrote:
= "Phillip Brown" <phillipbrownau@netscape.net> wrote:
=
=>http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/12/1068329629547.html
=>
=>Do daughters cause divorce?
=
=I can't speak for other cultures, but for Chinese families,
=you do see a lot of that keep-trying-till-you-have-a-boy
=phenomenon described in the article. My little brother's
=godmother have four daughters and the fifth kid was a
=son, at which point they stopped having kids.
My wife's family is that way - 7 girls, then a son, then
stopped.
__________________________________________
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Mike Smith | aa #1164 | Founder of SMASH
__________________________________________
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
"And these signs shall follow them that believe;
In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall
speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents;
and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not
hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and
they shall recover." - Mark 16:17-18
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
13 Nov 2003 03:22:01 AM |
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Le Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:57:32 +0000, Yang a écrit :
I can't speak for other cultures, but for Chinese families, you do see a
lot of that keep-trying-till-you-have-a-boy phenomenon described in the
article. My little brother's godmother have four daughters and the fifth
kid was a son, at which point they stopped having kids.
An interesting factoid about this: if all couples did this, would the
proportion of males in the population increase? Answer: no. I don't
remember where I read that. In a book about statistics or something. You
can prove it mathematically, btw.
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| User: "Bob Dog" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
13 Nov 2003 10:01:37 AM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.13.09.22.01.641315@127.0.0.1>...
Le Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:57:32 +0000, Yang a écrit :
I can't speak for other cultures, but for Chinese families, you do see a
lot of that keep-trying-till-you-have-a-boy phenomenon described in the
article. My little brother's godmother have four daughters and the fifth
kid was a son, at which point they stopped having kids.
An interesting factoid about this: if all couples did this, would the
proportion of males in the population increase? Answer: no. I don't
remember where I read that. In a book about statistics or something. You
can prove it mathematically, btw.
In Korea, India, and a few other countries it is having
an affect on the male:female ratio. Having girls until
you have a boy is one thing, but in some countries -
Korea and India most notably - the practice of selective
abortions is common, despite being illegal.
What you are suggesting is that the girls are being born
and then couples are trying again. The reality in some
countries is that female feotuses are *aborted* time and
again until a male is formed, _then_ the baby is carried
to full term. That kind of practice will inevitably lead
to an imbalance in the male:female ratio.
Bob Dog
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
14 Nov 2003 10:49:03 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:22:01 +0100, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> posted in alt.atheism:
Le Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:57:32 +0000, Yang a écrit :
I can't speak for other cultures, but for Chinese families, you do see a
lot of that keep-trying-till-you-have-a-boy phenomenon described in the
article. My little brother's godmother have four daughters and the fifth
kid was a son, at which point they stopped having kids.
An interesting factoid about this: if all couples did this, would the
proportion of males in the population increase? Answer: no. I don't
remember where I read that. In a book about statistics or something. You
can prove it mathematically, btw.
It's obvious. Not all sons will be second children. Not all will be
first children. More will be third, fourth, etc.
--
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can
solve them."
-Isaac Asimov
&
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Yang" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
13 Nov 2003 03:48:42 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:22:01 +0100, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:57:32 +0000, Yang a écrit :
I can't speak for other cultures, but for Chinese families, you do see a
lot of that keep-trying-till-you-have-a-boy phenomenon described in the
article. My little brother's godmother have four daughters and the fifth
kid was a son, at which point they stopped having kids.
An interesting factoid about this: if all couples did this, would the
proportion of males in the population increase? Answer: no. I don't
remember where I read that. In a book about statistics or something. You
can prove it mathematically, btw.
It's the IID condition in statistics, or that the probability of
having a boy is not conditional on the gender of the previous kid.
However, I have come across claims that in some cases this condition
is violated- there was villiage where a large proportion of the babies
where girls, and there has been some suspicion that there is some sort
of a chemical in the water. Under this scenario, the population of
babies will be tilted towards the girls, since the only people having
the third or fourth or fifth baby will be the ones who had all girls-
and therefore more likely to have another girl relative to the general
population.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -525 billion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -397 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
13 Nov 2003 08:51:29 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:51:12 +1100, Phillip Brown wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/12/1068329629547.html
Do daughters cause divorce?
November 13, 2003
If you want to prevent your own divorce, don?t have daughters, have sons.
As startling as it may seem, a new study from the United States has shown
that parents of girls are 5 per cent more likely to divorce than parents
of boys.
<snip>
An interesting statistic, but a 5% increase is not very much. Of 41
couples getting a divorce, 20 will be parents of boys, 21 will be parents
of girls.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Hanover Fist" |
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| Title: Re: OT - Do daughters cause divorce? |
13 Nov 2003 01:24:56 PM |
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Some women may be more likely to forgo divorce - even if they want one
- if they have sons at home whom they believe would benefit from the
presence of full time fathers. That could explain most of the small,
but present, difference between divorce rates for people with
daughters and people with sons.
....are people more likely to divorce when sons were young or when they
had reached the age of majority, and how does that compare to those
with only daughters?
....are older daughters more likely to encourage unhappy parents to
split? I suspect girls are more likely than boys to have these sorts
of discussions.
....are parents more likely to argue about the "proper way" to raise
girls?
....did the study factor in the presence of disability? Deaths of
previous children?
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