| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Meteorite Debris" |
| Date: |
05 Apr 2005 06:17:19 PM |
| Object: |
OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
TRANSLATION: The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming
<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0404/S00259.htm>
Translated by Mark Jensen
02 April 2004
Translated from Le Monde (Paris). A French elected official from the
Green Party warns that there will be an oil crisis unlike any that
preceded it by the end of the decade. He says our only hope is
something hard to imagine: a worldwide agreement to draw down oil
consumption....
Point of view
TOWARD THE PETRO-APOCALYPSE
By Yves Cochet
Le Monde (Paris)
March 31, 2004
FROM: <http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-
359335,0.html>
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of this
structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency of
our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our inability to
wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of time.
We can hope to soften the shock, but only if its imminence immediately
becomes the unique reference point for a general mobilization of our
societies, with, as a consequence, drastic consequences in every
sector. The alternative is chaos. This prospect is based on the work
of the American geologist King Hubbert, who predicted in 1956 the peak
in US domestic production of oil in 1970. This occurred exactly as
predicted.
Transposing Hubbert's approach today to other countries has given
similar predictive results: at present, the production of every giant
oilfield -- and only the giant ones matter -- is in decline, except in
the "black triangle" of Iraq-Iran-Saudi Arabia.
The Hubbert's peak of the oil-producing Middle East should be reached
around 2010, depending on the more or less rapid recovery of full
Iraqi production and the growth rate of demand in China.
The sectors most affected by the steady rise in the price of crude oil
will be, first, aviation and intensive agriculture, since the price of
jet fuel for one and of nitrogenous fertilizer as well as diesel fuel
for the other are directly linked to the price of crude oil.
This will occur unless stabilizing policies are used -- for a time and
in some other sectors -- to lower taxes on oil as prices rise. But
afterwards ground transport, tourism, the petrochemical industry, and
the automotive industry will feel the depressive effects of a
reduction in the quantity of oil (depletion). To what extent will this
situation lead to a general recession? No one knows, but the blindness
of politicians and the usual panicked overreaction of markets allows
us to fear the worst.
This unavoidable prophecy is being universally ignored, denied, or
underestimated. Rare are those who realize exactly how close and how
great is its advent. Michael Meacher, formerly UK minister of the
environment (1997-2003), wrote recently in the Financial Times that
unless there is a general awakening and decisions at the planetary
scale to bring radical change in the domain of energy, "civilization
will confront the most acute and no doubt most violent upheaval in
recent history."
If, in spite of everything, we want to maintain a bit of humanity in
life on Earth in the 2010s, we ought, as the geologist Colin Campbell
has suggested, to call on the United Nations to agree immediately on
the following: to guarantee that poor countries will still be able to
import a little oil; to forbid oil profiteering; to encourage saving
energy; to promote renewable sources of energy. In order to attain
these objectives, this universal agreement should impose the following
measures: every State must regulate oil imports and exports; no
oil-exporting country may produce more oil than its annual depletion,
scientifically calculated, allows; every State must reduce its oil
imports to an agreed-upon global depletion rate.
This necessary priority granted to physical econometrics will not suit
economists and politicians, especially in America. No government of
the United States has ever accepted questioning the American way of
life. Since the first oil shock of 1973-1974, every American military
intervention can be analyzed in the light of the fear of running short
of cheap oil. It was, moreover, the American production peak in 1970
that enabled OPEC to seize the occasion and cause the first shock,
which coincided with the Yom Kippur War. Countries in the West then
attempted to regain control and conjure away the specter of shortage,
less through energy sobriety than by means of opening oilfields in
Alaska and the North Sea. In 1979, the Iranian revolution and the
second oil shock once again allowed OPEC to regain preeminence, as
Western economies paid dearly for their thirst for oil through the
recession of subsequent years.
At the beginning of the 1980s, the financing and arming of Saddam
Hussein to fight Iran was part of the American reconquest of the price
and flow of oil, as was the cooperation obtained from King Fahd of
Saudi Arabia to increase crude oil exports to the West. That allowed
the oil price crash of 1986, a return of Western growth through
unlimited oil abundance, the extension of the thirst for energy up to
the Iraq wars (1991, 2003) no matter how many died from them (100,000?
300,000?), no matter how much they cost ($100 billion? $300 billion?),
by no matter what means (annual Dept. of Defense budget: $400
billion).
During these same last fifteen years, the multiple conflicts in the
Balkans had their source and their resolution in the American desire
to keep Russia away from the oil transport routes from the Black Sea
and the Caspian to the ports on the Adriatic, by way of Bulgaria,
Macedonia, and Albania. Oil geopolitics authorizes any pact with
Islamist devils, from central Asia to Bosnia, and all the cynical
connivances with terrorists, right up to Tony Blair's recent trip to
Libya to allow Shell to bring its volume of reserves in return for
several hundred million dollars.
The present American Greater Middle East Initiative is dressed up in
humanitarian and democratic considerations, but it is nothing but an
attempt to get control once and for all of every source of oil in the
region.
More than thirty years of worrying about oil has not opened the eyes
of American and European leaders concerning the energy crisis that is
looming just before us. Despite what René Dumont and the ecologists
were saying from the 1974 presidential campaign on, the governments of
industrialized countries have continued and continue to believe in
almost inexhaustible cheap oil -- to the detriment of the climate and
human health, both perturbed by greenhouse gas emissions -- instead of
organizing a reduction in their economies' reliance on hydrocarbons.
However, the oil shock that promises to strike before the end of the
decade is not like the ones that preceded it. What is at stake this
time is not geopolitical, but geological. In 1973 and 1979, the
shortage had a political origin in OPEC's decision. Then the supply
was restored.
Today, it is the wells themselves that are declining. Even if the
United States succeeded in imposing its hegemony on all the oilfields
in the world (outside of Russia), their army and their technology will
not be able to prevail against the coming depletion of conventional
oil. In any case, there is not enough time to replace a fluid so cheap
to produce, so rich in energy, so easy to use, store, and transport,
with so many uses (domestic, industrial, fuel, raw material...), in
order to reinvest $100 billion in another source of abundance that
doesn't exist.
Natural gas? It does not have the just-named qualities of oil and will
reach its global production peak in around 2020 -- about ten years
after the other peak. The only viable path is immediate oil sobriety
organized through an international agreement along the lines I have
sketched out above, authorizing a prompt weaning from our addiction to
black gold.
Without waiting for this delicate international agreement, our new
regional elected officials and our soon-to-be-elected European
representatives should set for themselves as a top priority the local
realization of these objectives by organizing, on their own territory,
an oil shrinkage. Otherwise, rationing will come from the market
through the coming rise in oil prices, and then be propagated by
inflation, with the shock reaching every sector. Since the price will
soon reach $100 a barrel, this will no longer be a simple oil shock --
it will be the end of the world as we know it.
--Yves Cochet (Green) represents Paris in the National Assembly, and
is former land and environment minister (ministre du territoire et de
l'environnement).
Translated by Mark K. Jensen , Associate Professor of French, Chair,
Department of Languages and Literatures, Pacific Lutheran University,
Tacoma, WA. Webpage: http://www.plu.edu/~jensenmk/
--
rot13
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
25 Apr 2005 05:11:45 PM |
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Le Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:11:05 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Because Saddam let the *one* state-owned refinery collapse from lack of
maintenance. Halliburton is building several new ones.
Don't you think that being under embargo had anything to do with that?
They could barely buy medicines, for *****'s sake.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
25 Apr 2005 06:39:47 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.25.22.11.45.809362@127.0.0.1:
Le Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:11:05 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Because Saddam let the *one* state-owned refinery collapse from lack of
maintenance. Halliburton is building several new ones.
Don't you think that being under embargo had anything to do with that?
They could barely buy medicines, for *****'s sake.
Uhh, hello? They were getting money from the oil for food program that was
*supposed* to be used for those sorts of purposes. Whoops, Saddam used that
to line his own pockets.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
25 Apr 2005 08:40:51 PM |
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Le Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:39:47 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Don't you think that being under embargo had anything to do with that?
They could barely buy medicines, for *****'s sake.
Uhh, hello? They were getting money from the oil for food program that was
*supposed* to be used for those sorts of purposes. Whoops, Saddam used
that to line his own pockets.
Even with the oil for food program they couldn't buy a lot of things.
Certainly not spare parts.
You're really disingenuous.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
25 Apr 2005 08:53:34 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.26.01.40.50.958806@127.0.0.1:
Le Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:39:47 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Don't you think that being under embargo had anything to do with
that? They could barely buy medicines, for *****'s sake.
Uhh, hello? They were getting money from the oil for food program
that was *supposed* to be used for those sorts of purposes. Whoops,
Saddam used that to line his own pockets.
Even with the oil for food program they couldn't buy a lot of things.
Certainly not spare parts.
You're really disingenuous.
Yeah, right, tell me Saddam couldn't buy anything short of nuclear
warheads from the French. If he hadn't been spending it on palaces and
goodies for his tribe.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
26 Apr 2005 04:04:47 AM |
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Le Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:53:34 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Yeah, right, tell me Saddam couldn't buy anything short of nuclear
warheads from the French. If he hadn't been spending it on palaces and
goodies for his tribe.
Whereas the Saud ... wait a mnute ...
Pre Ira
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
26 Apr 2005 07:16:52 AM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.26.09.04.47.22188@127.0.0.1:
Le Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:53:34 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Yeah, right, tell me Saddam couldn't buy anything short of nuclear
warheads from the French. If he hadn't been spending it on palaces and
goodies for his tribe.
Whereas the Saud ... wait a mnute ...
Yeah, your brain ought to be shorting out any minute now.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
26 Apr 2005 08:37:55 AM |
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:04:47 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:53:34 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Yeah, right, tell me Saddam couldn't buy anything short of nuclear
warheads from the French. If he hadn't been spending it on palaces and
goodies for his tribe.
Whereas the Saud ... wait a mnute ...
But that's different - they're on our side. At the moment.
Pre Ira
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
25 Apr 2005 10:40:31 PM |
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:40:51 +0200 the ET form known as Divin
Marquis<postmaster@127.0.0.1> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Le Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:39:47 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Don't you think that being under embargo had anything to do with that?
They could barely buy medicines, for *****'s sake.
Uhh, hello? They were getting money from the oil for food program that was
*supposed* to be used for those sorts of purposes. Whoops, Saddam used
that to line his own pockets.
Even with the oil for food program they couldn't buy a lot of things.
Certainly not spare parts.
You're really disingenuous.
Fred is blinded by the fog of rhetoric.
--
rot13
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
26 Apr 2005 07:00:30 AM |
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Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote in
news:MPG.1cd8400e49b9669298a170@news.optusnet.com.au:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:40:51 +0200 the ET form known as Divin
Marquis<postmaster@127.0.0.1> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Le Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:39:47 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Don't you think that being under embargo had anything to do with
that? They could barely buy medicines, for *****'s sake.
Uhh, hello? They were getting money from the oil for food program
that was *supposed* to be used for those sorts of purposes. Whoops,
Saddam used that to line his own pockets.
Even with the oil for food program they couldn't buy a lot of things.
Certainly not spare parts.
You're really disingenuous.
Fred is blinded by the fog of rhetoric.
Yeah, the fog rolling out of your posts *is* quite blinding.
Fortunately, I have fog lights. :-)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 08:15:00 AM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
The Arch Atheist <popeundercover@holysee.va> wrote in alt.atheism
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
Since the first oil shock of 1973-1974, every American military
intervention can be analyzed in the light of the fear of running short
of cheap oil.
What oil resources were involved in Grenada, Somalia, or the Balkans?
Don't EVER listen to the french.
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and pays
more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge oil
reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough refineries to
process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's stopping them from
building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by importing
processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply available crude.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves;
and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
-- Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 10:11:26 AM |
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Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:4253E0D4.6805A0D2@serv.net:
Elroy Willis wrote:
The Arch Atheist <popeundercover@holysee.va> wrote in alt.atheism
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
Since the first oil shock of 1973-1974, every American military
intervention can be analyzed in the light of the fear of running
short of cheap oil.
What oil resources were involved in Grenada, Somalia, or the
Balkans?
Don't EVER listen to the french.
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and pays
more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge oil
reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough refineries to
process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's stopping them from
building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
That must be why they're building refineries in Iraq.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 11:05:10 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
Elroy Willis wrote:
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and pays
more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge oil
reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough refineries to
process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's stopping them from
building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
That must be why they're building refineries in Iraq.
Who is "they" in this case?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 11:12:56 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:3u18515t7t4bh91lg5m959aebruljme4av@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
Elroy Willis wrote:
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and
pays more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge
oil reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough
refineries to process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's
stopping them from building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
That must be why they're building refineries in Iraq.
Who is "they" in this case?
Halliburton, of course. ;-)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 11:46:58 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
Elroy Willis wrote:
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and
pays more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge
oil reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough
refineries to process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's
stopping them from building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
That must be why they're building refineries in Iraq.
Who is "they" in this case?
Halliburton, of course. ;-)
Once they're up and running, Haliburton will reap a percentage of
all the processed oil, right?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 12:50:51 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:ce4851tjfjvppkbm07dba9m9feqdnjd9m3@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
Elroy Willis wrote:
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and
pays more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have
huge oil reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough
refineries to process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's
stopping them from building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
That must be why they're building refineries in Iraq.
Who is "they" in this case?
Halliburton, of course. ;-)
Once they're up and running, Haliburton will reap a percentage of
all the processed oil, right?
I don't know about that. They get a percentage from the oil fields that
they run on contract, but I don't know about refineries. That's all
negotiated by the government Oil Ministry in those countries where the
oil business is nationalized.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 09:01:44 AM |
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Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
The Arch Atheist <popeundercover@holysee.va> wrote in alt.atheism
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
Since the first oil shock of 1973-1974, every American military
intervention can be analyzed in the light of the fear of running short
of cheap oil.
What oil resources were involved in Grenada, Somalia, or the Balkans?
Don't EVER listen to the french.
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and pays
more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge oil
reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough refineries to
process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's stopping them from
building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by importing
processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply available crude.
How many refineries are completely arab-owned and arab-run in the
middle east? Ones with no ties at all to any western companies like
Haliburton? Any at all?
I can remember some episodes from the Dallas TV show, in which JR
bought a refinery and started refining all the oil on Ewing-owned
property, and selling it real cheap, and he was attacked not only by
the arabs, but also by the big oil companies who were ***** at
what he was doing.
I realize Dallas was fiction, but I wonder how much of that part of
those episodes could be partially true if someone like JR did that
today.
I'm currently involved in a legal deal with a natural gas company that
wants to lease my property to suck out the natural gas underneath it.
All the people in my neighborhood are also involved as well, and the
funny thing is, my whole neighborhood is totally electric. We cannot
get natural gas to run our heaters in our homes even if we tried, yet
there is apparently enough natural gas underneath all our properties
to fuel a big city for years and years...
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 11:00:32 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:esp751pe5fjbe7lv6dlleckqput9alq11r@4ax.com:
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
The Arch Atheist <popeundercover@holysee.va> wrote in alt.atheism
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
Since the first oil shock of 1973-1974, every American military
intervention can be analyzed in the light of the fear of running
short of cheap oil.
What oil resources were involved in Grenada, Somalia, or the
Balkans?
Don't EVER listen to the french.
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and
pays more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge
oil reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough
refineries to process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's
stopping them from building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
How many refineries are completely arab-owned and arab-run in the
middle east? Ones with no ties at all to any western companies like
Haliburton? Any at all?
Probably none, or very few. I think they tend to contract with Western
or Russian companies to run the oil fields and refine the crude. Look at
Iran, for instance, they have construction and servicing contracts all
over the place.
I can remember some episodes from the Dallas TV show, in which JR
bought a refinery and started refining all the oil on Ewing-owned
property, and selling it real cheap, and he was attacked not only by
the arabs, but also by the big oil companies who were ***** at
what he was doing.
I realize Dallas was fiction, but I wonder how much of that part of
those episodes could be partially true if someone like JR did that
today.
I think that's just "Hollywood reality" talking.
I'm currently involved in a legal deal with a natural gas company that
wants to lease my property to suck out the natural gas underneath it.
All the people in my neighborhood are also involved as well, and the
funny thing is, my whole neighborhood is totally electric. We cannot
get natural gas to run our heaters in our homes even if we tried, yet
there is apparently enough natural gas underneath all our properties
to fuel a big city for years and years...
We have gas wells all around Youngstown like that. Apparantly it's good
for a small royalty check for each of the neighbors.
If you're using water wells, you might want to get *that* in the
contract too, that the gas company will indemnify against any
deterioration in the water quality.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 11:40:30 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and
pays more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge
oil reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough
refineries to process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's
stopping them from building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
How many refineries are completely arab-owned and arab-run in the
middle east? Ones with no ties at all to any western companies like
Haliburton? Any at all?
Probably none, or very few. I think they tend to contract with Western
or Russian companies to run the oil fields and refine the crude. Look at
Iran, for instance, they have construction and servicing contracts all
over the place.
If one of them decided to not join OPEC, or abandoned OPEC, and
started selling their refined oil at rock-bottom prices, don't you
think they would be attacked by members of OPEC and the oil cartels
of the world?
I can remember some episodes from the Dallas TV show, in which JR
bought a refinery and started refining all the oil on Ewing-owned
property, and selling it real cheap, and he was attacked not only by
the arabs, but also by the big oil companies who were ***** at
what he was doing.
I realize Dallas was fiction, but I wonder how much of that part of
those episodes could be partially true if someone like JR did that
today.
I think that's just "Hollywood reality" talking.
I wonder how real that part of the show might be, like I said.
I'm currently involved in a legal deal with a natural gas company that
wants to lease my property to suck out the natural gas underneath it.
All the people in my neighborhood are also involved as well, and the
funny thing is, my whole neighborhood is totally electric. We cannot
get natural gas to run our heaters in our homes even if we tried, yet
there is apparently enough natural gas underneath all our properties
to fuel a big city for years and years...
We have gas wells all around Youngstown like that. Apparantly it's good
for a small royalty check for each of the neighbors.
Yeah, that's what I've been promised if I decide to sign the
contracts. It won't be very much actually. Maybe $30 a month or so.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 12:47:36 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:jj2851tl3kpe5pctsu7dnb2f2io94vodrn@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
I'd like to know why Iraq imports over 50% of their gasoline and
pays more than Americans pay for gas when they obviously have huge
oil reserves. I assume it's because they don't have enough
refineries to process the oil. If that's true, then why? Who's
stopping them from building more refineries?
Haliburton, of course. There is far more profit to be made by
importing processed petrol than there is in processing cheaply
available crude.
How many refineries are completely arab-owned and arab-run in the
middle east? Ones with no ties at all to any western companies like
Haliburton? Any at all?
Probably none, or very few. I think they tend to contract with
Western or Russian companies to run the oil fields and refine the
crude. Look at Iran, for instance, they have construction and
servicing contracts all over the place.
If one of them decided to not join OPEC, or abandoned OPEC, and
started selling their refined oil at rock-bottom prices, don't you
think they would be attacked by members of OPEC and the oil cartels
of the world?
I don't know. I doubt it. OPEC hasn't been able to enforce much in the
past when their members have broken the cartel prices. The profit motive
keeps them mostly in line, as long as they're at or near capacity.
I can remember some episodes from the Dallas TV show, in which JR
bought a refinery and started refining all the oil on Ewing-owned
property, and selling it real cheap, and he was attacked not only by
the arabs, but also by the big oil companies who were ***** at
what he was doing.
I realize Dallas was fiction, but I wonder how much of that part of
those episodes could be partially true if someone like JR did that
today.
I think that's just "Hollywood reality" talking.
I wonder how real that part of the show might be, like I said.
I'm currently involved in a legal deal with a natural gas company
that wants to lease my property to suck out the natural gas
underneath it. All the people in my neighborhood are also involved
as well, and the funny thing is, my whole neighborhood is totally
electric. We cannot get natural gas to run our heaters in our homes
even if we tried, yet there is apparently enough natural gas
underneath all our properties to fuel a big city for years and
years...
We have gas wells all around Youngstown like that. Apparantly it's
good for a small royalty check for each of the neighbors.
Yeah, that's what I've been promised if I decide to sign the
contracts. It won't be very much actually. Maybe $30 a month or so.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Make sure they indemnify against property
damage while they're drilling. The heavy equipment can tear the hell out
of your backyard...
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
07 Apr 2005 07:52:20 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
I'm currently involved in a legal deal with a natural gas company
that wants to lease my property to suck out the natural gas
underneath it. All the people in my neighborhood are also involved
as well, and the funny thing is, my whole neighborhood is totally
electric. We cannot get natural gas to run our heaters in our homes
even if we tried, yet there is apparently enough natural gas
underneath all our properties to fuel a big city for years and
years...
We have gas wells all around Youngstown like that. Apparantly it's
good for a small royalty check for each of the neighbors.
Yeah, that's what I've been promised if I decide to sign the
contracts. It won't be very much actually. Maybe $30 a month or so.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Make sure they indemnify against property
damage while they're drilling. The heavy equipment can tear the hell out
of your backyard...
They're drilling horizontally and won't ever have to enter anyone's
yard. The wells on the outskirts of the neighborhood drill down 8000
feet, then they drill horizontally for over a mile somehow.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Dean" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
13 Apr 2005 04:53:32 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
If one of them decided to not join OPEC, or abandoned OPEC, and
started selling their refined oil at rock-bottom prices, don't you
think they would be attacked by members of OPEC and the oil cartels
of the world?
I can remember some episodes from the Dallas TV show, in which JR
bought a refinery and started refining all the oil on Ewing-owned
property, and selling it real cheap, and he was attacked not only by
the arabs, but also by the big oil companies who were ***** at
what he was doing.
I realize Dallas was fiction, but I wonder how much of that part of
those episodes could be partially true if someone like JR did that
today.
I think that's just "Hollywood reality" talking.
I wonder how real that part of the show might be, like I said.
I think you are neglecting the effect of a free market economy.
Remember, OPEC does not set the price for a barrel of crude. They
affect prices by controlling production, but it is the marketplace
that determines the price they are willing to pay.
Say that you could somehow sell your crude for less than market price.
Why would you, when the market is perfectly willing to pay more?
Commodities are exactly that -- they are goods that are largely
equivalent regardless of source. So pricing is not set by individual
sellers, but by some market mechanism that I am in no way equipped to
elucidate. It is different than manufactured goods, where price
differences can be justified based on differentiators such as feature
sets, perceived quality, service, etc.
Back to your JR example. Let's say you own an oil well on your
property. You decide to build your own refinery so you can sell
direct-from-the-farm gasoline to the public. Let's say the economics
work out so that you can make a comfortable living selling gas at 1/2
the price of retailers forced to buy gasoline on the wholesale market.
One of several things will happen:
- You will wake up and realize you are leaving a whole pile of money
on the table, then raise your prices to the market level
- You will start a gas war that will have everyone selling gas at your
price. Great for the consumer in the short run, but eventually the
retailers will either go out of business or:
- You will get leaned on real hard by the gasoline retailers whom you
are forcing out of business.
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
13 Apr 2005 05:26:20 PM |
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(Dean) wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
If one of them decided to not join OPEC, or abandoned OPEC, and
started selling their refined oil at rock-bottom prices, don't you
think they would be attacked by members of OPEC and the oil cartels
of the world?
I can remember some episodes from the Dallas TV show, in which JR
bought a refinery and started refining all the oil on Ewing-owned
property, and selling it real cheap, and he was attacked not only by
the arabs, but also by the big oil companies who were ***** at
what he was doing.
I realize Dallas was fiction, but I wonder how much of that part of
those episodes could be partially true if someone like JR did that
today.
I think that's just "Hollywood reality" talking.
I wonder how real that part of the show might be, like I said.
I think you are neglecting the effect of a free market economy.
Remember, OPEC does not set the price for a barrel of crude. They
affect prices by controlling production, but it is the marketplace
that determines the price they are willing to pay.
Say that you could somehow sell your crude for less than market price.
Why would you, when the market is perfectly willing to pay more?
Commodities are exactly that -- they are goods that are largely
equivalent regardless of source. So pricing is not set by individual
sellers, but by some market mechanism that I am in no way equipped to
elucidate. It is different than manufactured goods, where price
differences can be justified based on differentiators such as feature
sets, perceived quality, service, etc.
Back to your JR example. Let's say you own an oil well on your
property. You decide to build your own refinery so you can sell
direct-from-the-farm gasoline to the public. Let's say the economics
work out so that you can make a comfortable living selling gas at 1/2
the price of retailers forced to buy gasoline on the wholesale market.
One of several things will happen:
- You will wake up and realize you are leaving a whole pile of money
on the table, then raise your prices to the market level
If you sell more than everybody else, you can still make the same
amount of profit in the end. 1000 gallons x $1 a gallon is the same
as 500 gallons at $2. You don't make as much profit per gallon, but
if you sell twice as much as everybody else, the profit is the same.
- You will start a gas war that will have everyone selling gas at your
price. Great for the consumer in the short run, but eventually the
retailers will either go out of business or:
- You will get leaned on real hard by the gasoline retailers whom you
are forcing out of business.
That's what happened in Dallas, IIRC. JR started getting death
threats from some of the other oil companies who hated him and what
he was doing. :)
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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