| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Meteorite Debris" |
| Date: |
05 Apr 2005 11:17:19 PM |
| Object: |
OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
TRANSLATION: The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming
<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0404/S00259.htm>
Translated by Mark Jensen
02 April 2004
Translated from Le Monde (Paris). A French elected official from the
Green Party warns that there will be an oil crisis unlike any that
preceded it by the end of the decade. He says our only hope is
something hard to imagine: a worldwide agreement to draw down oil
consumption....
Point of view
TOWARD THE PETRO-APOCALYPSE
By Yves Cochet
Le Monde (Paris)
March 31, 2004
FROM: <http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-
359335,0.html>
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of this
structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency of
our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our inability to
wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of time.
We can hope to soften the shock, but only if its imminence immediately
becomes the unique reference point for a general mobilization of our
societies, with, as a consequence, drastic consequences in every
sector. The alternative is chaos. This prospect is based on the work
of the American geologist King Hubbert, who predicted in 1956 the peak
in US domestic production of oil in 1970. This occurred exactly as
predicted.
Transposing Hubbert's approach today to other countries has given
similar predictive results: at present, the production of every giant
oilfield -- and only the giant ones matter -- is in decline, except in
the "black triangle" of Iraq-Iran-Saudi Arabia.
The Hubbert's peak of the oil-producing Middle East should be reached
around 2010, depending on the more or less rapid recovery of full
Iraqi production and the growth rate of demand in China.
The sectors most affected by the steady rise in the price of crude oil
will be, first, aviation and intensive agriculture, since the price of
jet fuel for one and of nitrogenous fertilizer as well as diesel fuel
for the other are directly linked to the price of crude oil.
This will occur unless stabilizing policies are used -- for a time and
in some other sectors -- to lower taxes on oil as prices rise. But
afterwards ground transport, tourism, the petrochemical industry, and
the automotive industry will feel the depressive effects of a
reduction in the quantity of oil (depletion). To what extent will this
situation lead to a general recession? No one knows, but the blindness
of politicians and the usual panicked overreaction of markets allows
us to fear the worst.
This unavoidable prophecy is being universally ignored, denied, or
underestimated. Rare are those who realize exactly how close and how
great is its advent. Michael Meacher, formerly UK minister of the
environment (1997-2003), wrote recently in the Financial Times that
unless there is a general awakening and decisions at the planetary
scale to bring radical change in the domain of energy, "civilization
will confront the most acute and no doubt most violent upheaval in
recent history."
If, in spite of everything, we want to maintain a bit of humanity in
life on Earth in the 2010s, we ought, as the geologist Colin Campbell
has suggested, to call on the United Nations to agree immediately on
the following: to guarantee that poor countries will still be able to
import a little oil; to forbid oil profiteering; to encourage saving
energy; to promote renewable sources of energy. In order to attain
these objectives, this universal agreement should impose the following
measures: every State must regulate oil imports and exports; no
oil-exporting country may produce more oil than its annual depletion,
scientifically calculated, allows; every State must reduce its oil
imports to an agreed-upon global depletion rate.
This necessary priority granted to physical econometrics will not suit
economists and politicians, especially in America. No government of
the United States has ever accepted questioning the American way of
life. Since the first oil shock of 1973-1974, every American military
intervention can be analyzed in the light of the fear of running short
of cheap oil. It was, moreover, the American production peak in 1970
that enabled OPEC to seize the occasion and cause the first shock,
which coincided with the Yom Kippur War. Countries in the West then
attempted to regain control and conjure away the specter of shortage,
less through energy sobriety than by means of opening oilfields in
Alaska and the North Sea. In 1979, the Iranian revolution and the
second oil shock once again allowed OPEC to regain preeminence, as
Western economies paid dearly for their thirst for oil through the
recession of subsequent years.
At the beginning of the 1980s, the financing and arming of Saddam
Hussein to fight Iran was part of the American reconquest of the price
and flow of oil, as was the cooperation obtained from King Fahd of
Saudi Arabia to increase crude oil exports to the West. That allowed
the oil price crash of 1986, a return of Western growth through
unlimited oil abundance, the extension of the thirst for energy up to
the Iraq wars (1991, 2003) no matter how many died from them (100,000?
300,000?), no matter how much they cost ($100 billion? $300 billion?),
by no matter what means (annual Dept. of Defense budget: $400
billion).
During these same last fifteen years, the multiple conflicts in the
Balkans had their source and their resolution in the American desire
to keep Russia away from the oil transport routes from the Black Sea
and the Caspian to the ports on the Adriatic, by way of Bulgaria,
Macedonia, and Albania. Oil geopolitics authorizes any pact with
Islamist devils, from central Asia to Bosnia, and all the cynical
connivances with terrorists, right up to Tony Blair's recent trip to
Libya to allow Shell to bring its volume of reserves in return for
several hundred million dollars.
The present American Greater Middle East Initiative is dressed up in
humanitarian and democratic considerations, but it is nothing but an
attempt to get control once and for all of every source of oil in the
region.
More than thirty years of worrying about oil has not opened the eyes
of American and European leaders concerning the energy crisis that is
looming just before us. Despite what René Dumont and the ecologists
were saying from the 1974 presidential campaign on, the governments of
industrialized countries have continued and continue to believe in
almost inexhaustible cheap oil -- to the detriment of the climate and
human health, both perturbed by greenhouse gas emissions -- instead of
organizing a reduction in their economies' reliance on hydrocarbons.
However, the oil shock that promises to strike before the end of the
decade is not like the ones that preceded it. What is at stake this
time is not geopolitical, but geological. In 1973 and 1979, the
shortage had a political origin in OPEC's decision. Then the supply
was restored.
Today, it is the wells themselves that are declining. Even if the
United States succeeded in imposing its hegemony on all the oilfields
in the world (outside of Russia), their army and their technology will
not be able to prevail against the coming depletion of conventional
oil. In any case, there is not enough time to replace a fluid so cheap
to produce, so rich in energy, so easy to use, store, and transport,
with so many uses (domestic, industrial, fuel, raw material...), in
order to reinvest $100 billion in another source of abundance that
doesn't exist.
Natural gas? It does not have the just-named qualities of oil and will
reach its global production peak in around 2020 -- about ten years
after the other peak. The only viable path is immediate oil sobriety
organized through an international agreement along the lines I have
sketched out above, authorizing a prompt weaning from our addiction to
black gold.
Without waiting for this delicate international agreement, our new
regional elected officials and our soon-to-be-elected European
representatives should set for themselves as a top priority the local
realization of these objectives by organizing, on their own territory,
an oil shrinkage. Otherwise, rationing will come from the market
through the coming rise in oil prices, and then be propagated by
inflation, with the shock reaching every sector. Since the price will
soon reach $100 a barrel, this will no longer be a simple oil shock --
it will be the end of the world as we know it.
--Yves Cochet (Green) represents Paris in the National Assembly, and
is former land and environment minister (ministre du territoire et de
l'environnement).
Translated by Mark K. Jensen , Associate Professor of French, Chair,
Department of Languages and Literatures, Pacific Lutheran University,
Tacoma, WA. Webpage: http://www.plu.edu/~jensenmk/
--
rot13
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 06:05:22 AM |
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In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
TRANSLATION: The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming
<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0404/S00259.htm>
Translated by Mark Jensen
02 April 2004
Translated from Le Monde (Paris). A French elected official from the
Green Party warns that there will be an oil crisis unlike any that
preceded it by the end of the decade. He says our only hope is
something hard to imagine: a worldwide agreement to draw down oil
consumption....
Point of view
TOWARD THE PETRO-APOCALYPSE
By Yves Cochet
Le Monde (Paris)
March 31, 2004
FROM: <http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-
359335,0.html>
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of this
structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency of
our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our inability to
wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done 25
years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of fuel?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 03:10:30 PM |
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johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
TRANSLATION: The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming
<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0404/S00259.htm>
Translated by Mark Jensen
02 April 2004
Translated from Le Monde (Paris). A French elected official from the
Green Party warns that there will be an oil crisis unlike any that
preceded it by the end of the decade. He says our only hope is
something hard to imagine: a worldwide agreement to draw down oil
consumption....
Point of view
TOWARD THE PETRO-APOCALYPSE
By Yves Cochet
Le Monde (Paris)
March 31, 2004
FROM: <http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-
359335,0.html>
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of
this structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency
of our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our
inability to wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of
time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done 25
years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of fuel?
25 years ago we *had* a reliable alternative source, but folks like
Hanoi Jane and their idiot brethren in legislatures demonized it and
obstructed progress on it.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
07 Apr 2005 01:25:33 AM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1112800232.f81f614c7d629143233c4e9870a4052a@teranews...
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
TRANSLATION: The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming
<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0404/S00259.htm>
Translated by Mark Jensen
02 April 2004
Translated from Le Monde (Paris). A French elected official from the
Green Party warns that there will be an oil crisis unlike any that
preceded it by the end of the decade. He says our only hope is
something hard to imagine: a worldwide agreement to draw down oil
consumption....
Point of view
TOWARD THE PETRO-APOCALYPSE
By Yves Cochet
Le Monde (Paris)
March 31, 2004
FROM: <http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-
359335,0.html>
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of
this structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency
of our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our
inability to wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of
time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done 25
years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of fuel?
25 years ago we *had* a reliable alternative source, but folks like
Hanoi Jane and their idiot brethren in legislatures demonized it and
obstructed progress on it.
I read recently that France, IIRC, derives about 80% of its energy from
nuclear. In the US we are at about 20%. Despite the hype an hysteria, more
people die every hour from coal mining than have ever died from a nuclear
accident (the figure last I saw was still holding steady at 0). Yeah,
control and disposal of spent fuel is a problem, but I have also read about
advances to replenish and reuse spent fuel as part of the process of
generating energy. It's the closest thing I've heard of to perpetual motion
on an industrial scale!
In addition to nuclear, I am heavily in favor of biomass/biodiesel as a fuel
source for transportation. Little if any modification is needed for most
diesel engines. The source is renewable and profiatable for our farmers who
can use both waste vegetation and grow fuel fields as part of useful crop
rotation.
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 04:49:24 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of
this structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency
of our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our
inability to wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of
time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done 25
years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of fuel?
25 years ago we *had* a reliable alternative source, but folks like
Hanoi Jane and their idiot brethren in legislatures demonized it and
obstructed progress on it.
She's become a turncoat recently though, right?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 05:52:10 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:vm48515c69s03std6dve1ijcrf2oie9di9@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will
fall, while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting
shock of this structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the
dependency of our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first,
our inability to wean ourselves from this dependency in a short
period of time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done
25 years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of
fuel?
25 years ago we *had* a reliable alternative source, but folks like
Hanoi Jane and their idiot brethren in legislatures demonized it and
obstructed progress on it.
She's become a turncoat recently though, right?
Unlile John Kerry, Jane Fonda has apologized for her actions.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 06:00:54 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will
fall, while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting
shock of this structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the
dependency of our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first,
our inability to wean ourselves from this dependency in a short
period of time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done
25 years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of
fuel?
25 years ago we *had* a reliable alternative source, but folks like
Hanoi Jane and their idiot brethren in legislatures demonized it and
obstructed progress on it.
She's become a turncoat recently though, right?
Unlile John Kerry, Jane Fonda has apologized for her actions.
When will Bush do the same? :)
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 08:17:45 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:ot8851lm9ee0g9c0166ulhspdejlrm4nqi@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in alt.atheism
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will
fall, while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting
shock of this structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are
the dependency of our economies on cheap oil and. related to the
first, our inability to wean ourselves from this dependency in a
short period of time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have
done 25 years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative
source of fuel?
25 years ago we *had* a reliable alternative source, but folks like
Hanoi Jane and their idiot brethren in legislatures demonized it
and obstructed progress on it.
She's become a turncoat recently though, right?
Unlile John Kerry, Jane Fonda has apologized for her actions.
When will Bush do the same? :)
When he has something to apologize for? :)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "rj" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 11:36:27 AM |
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johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
TRANSLATION: The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming
<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0404/S00259.htm>
Translated by Mark Jensen
02 April 2004
Translated from Le Monde (Paris). A French elected official from the
Green Party warns that there will be an oil crisis unlike any that
preceded it by the end of the decade. He says our only hope is
something hard to imagine: a worldwide agreement to draw down oil
consumption....
Point of view
TOWARD THE PETRO-APOCALYPSE
By Yves Cochet
Le Monde (Paris)
March 31, 2004
FROM: <http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-
359335,0.html>
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of this
structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency of
our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our inability to
wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done 25
years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of fuel?
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of research
projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation that was done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with) some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon the
other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on gasoline and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus it
would cost more.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell hole.
Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it will take
a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime better get a
prayer rug.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that Libertarian
was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple answer.
Just wait a while, it will all go away eventually. The universe is not
eternal.
rj
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
08 Apr 2005 05:44:19 AM |
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In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
TRANSLATION: The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming
<http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0404/S00259.htm>
Translated by Mark Jensen
02 April 2004
Translated from Le Monde (Paris). A French elected official from the
Green Party warns that there will be an oil crisis unlike any that
preceded it by the end of the decade. He says our only hope is
something hard to imagine: a worldwide agreement to draw down oil
consumption....
Point of view
TOWARD THE PETRO-APOCALYPSE
By Yves Cochet
Le Monde (Paris)
March 31, 2004
FROM: <http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-
359335,0.html>
In a few years, the global production of conventional oil will fall,
while the global demand continues to rise. The resulting shock of this
structural oil famine is inevitable, so great are the dependency of
our economies on cheap oil and. related to the first, our inability to
wean ourselves from this dependency in a short period of time.
Like maybe it's about time to do something that we should have done 25
years ago and start looking for a reliable alternative source of fuel?
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of research
projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation that was done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with) some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon the
other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on gasoline and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus it
would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell hole.
Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it will take
a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime better get a
prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that Libertarian
was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
Just wait a while, it will all go away eventually. The universe is not
eternal.
True, but I hope that I will be around for a little while longer.
rj
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
09 Apr 2005 02:07:07 AM |
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of research
projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation that was done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with) some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon the
other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on gasoline and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus it
would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell hole.
Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it will take
a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime better get a
prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that Libertarian
was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
09 Apr 2005 07:10:22 AM |
|
|
In article <j3ee51huh38k1u957g0c4qsfu4kgo4ph6a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of research
projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation that was
done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with) some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon the
other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on gasoline
and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus it
would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell hole.
Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it will take
a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime better get a
prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that Libertarian
was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
10 Apr 2005 05:16:10 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:10:22 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <j3ee51huh38k1u957g0c4qsfu4kgo4ph6a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of research
projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation that was
done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with) some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon the
other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on gasoline
and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
And rendered ineffective by their colleiges(sp).
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus it
would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell hole.
Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it will take
a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime better get a
prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that Libertarian
was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
Never heard it.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
10 Apr 2005 11:51:23 PM |
|
|
In article <4pni51t8q4vgh73kk7ptneroi1qd6152s1@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:10:22 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <j3ee51huh38k1u957g0c4qsfu4kgo4ph6a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of
research
projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation that was
done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with)
some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom
line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon
the
other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on gasoline
and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
And rendered ineffective by their colleiges(sp).
True. I'm glad that I'm not in politics. I'd either end up as corrupt as
the others or go insane.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus
it
would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell
hole.
Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it will
take
a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime better get a
prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian
was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
Never heard it.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
11 Apr 2005 09:59:10 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:51:23 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <4pni51t8q4vgh73kk7ptneroi1qd6152s1@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:10:22 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
[]
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on gasoline
and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
And rendered ineffective by their colleiges(sp).
True. I'm glad that I'm not in politics. I'd either end up as corrupt as
the others or go insane.
How many of them are both?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
12 Apr 2005 05:13:29 AM |
|
|
In article <4nsl51ptcstf6m30ogt3842bn0b75vi3vc@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:51:23 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <4pni51t8q4vgh73kk7ptneroi1qd6152s1@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:10:22 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
[]
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on
gasoline
and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in
the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the
crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good
either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
And rendered ineffective by their colleiges(sp).
True. I'm glad that I'm not in politics. I'd either end up as corrupt as
the others or go insane.
How many of them are both?
Plenty.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
13 Apr 2005 02:13:10 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:13:29 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <4nsl51ptcstf6m30ogt3842bn0b75vi3vc@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:51:23 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <4pni51t8q4vgh73kk7ptneroi1qd6152s1@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:10:22 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
[]
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on
gasoline
and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in
the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the
crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good
either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
And rendered ineffective by their colleiges(sp).
True. I'm glad that I'm not in politics. I'd either end up as corrupt as
the others or go insane.
How many of them are both?
Plenty.
Cagle.com has cartoons on the arctic national drilling refuge.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "wcb" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
10 Apr 2005 04:14:35 AM |
|
|
johac wrote:
In article <j3ee51huh38k1u957g0c4qsfu4kgo4ph6a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of
research projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation
that was done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with)
some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom
line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon
the other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on
gasoline and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast. It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground
and thus it would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell
hole. Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it
will take a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime
better get a prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
10 Apr 2005 06:24:21 AM |
|
|
In article <115h9pj5106bk8a@corp.supernews.com>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <j3ee51huh38k1u957g0c4qsfu4kgo4ph6a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of
research projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation
that was done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with)
some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom
line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon
the other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on
gasoline and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast. It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground
and thus it would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell
hole. Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it
will take a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime
better get a prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
Good one.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
10 Apr 2005 05:16:43 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:24:21 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <115h9pj5106bk8a@corp.supernews.com>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <j3ee51huh38k1u957g0c4qsfu4kgo4ph6a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of
research projects into "alternative" energy sources for transportation
that was done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with)
some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom
line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon
the other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals. Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on
gasoline and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast. It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground
and thus it would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell
hole. Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so it
will take a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime
better get a prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
Good one.
"Don't eat the yellow snow."
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
10 Apr 2005 10:57:24 PM |
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In article <crni5117a4frl8e1rfk48jhsthimpqjm0k@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:24:21 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <115h9pj5106bk8a@corp.supernews.com>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <j3ee51huh38k1u957g0c4qsfu4kgo4ph6a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:44:19 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj <rj@yahoo.com>
wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-766A2A.23052205042005
@news.giganews.com:
In article <MPG.1cbd98d67d0e810898a0e7@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
[]
THe research is actually older than that. There were a number of
research projects into "alternative" energy sources for
transportation
that was done
at Argonne Nat'l labs. How do I know this? I met (and worked with)
some
of the authors that did that research and read their papers. Bottom
line?
Gas/diesel is cheap and until it costs something like $10 per gallon
the other sources of energy aren't economically viable solutions.
That was technology then. I don't have an easy answer, If I did, I'd
be
rich and famous. We need an intense R & D program to start now. There
is only so much oil in the ground, and demand is rising. Conservation
may delay the problem, but sooner or later we will run out.
Don't; forget that there are that there are many things that we could
put in our cars fuel tanks or use to heat our homes, but there is use
for oil for which there is no ready substitute - petrochemicals.
Where
do plastics, synthetic fibers, synthetic rubber and many other items
essential to our lifestyles come from?
If you really want to dig into the truth, look at the taxes on
gasoline and
diesel. Why do Brits pay over 5 times as much as Americans do for
gasoline? Taxes. Why is gasoline priced at < $0.50 per gallon in
the
mideast? Lack of taxes. Why do Canadians pay so much for gasoline
compared to the USA? Taxes. Those in political power don't want an
alternative energy source until they figure out a way to tax the
crap
out
of it. Of course those alternative sources won't look so good
either.
That's a political problem. Vote for good people.
Are there any?
Very few and very far between, I'm afraid.
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast. It just would require more effort to get it out of the
ground
and thus it would cost more.
True. As we go farther and farther into more inaccessible places in
search of less accessible oil, the costs will only rise.
Empty the mideast of oil and suddenly few will care about that hell
hole. Most likely they will have all the money and power by then so
it
will take a while for the pendulum to swing back and in the meantime
better get a prayer rug.
That again would only delay the problem.
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
Good one.
"Don't eat the yellow snow."
That will be the theme song of Halliburton, et al. personnel in ANWR.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
11 Apr 2005 09:57:37 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:57:24 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <crni5117a4frl8e1rfk48jhsthimpqjm0k@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:24:21 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <115h9pj5106bk8a@corp.supernews.com>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
[]
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that there is no simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
Good one.
"Don't eat the yellow snow."
That will be the theme song of Halliburton, et al. personnel in ANWR.
Oh, you mean the 'Arctic National Drilling Zone.' There's no refuge
for the wildlife anymore and they'll be vanquished.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
12 Apr 2005 05:16:03 AM |
|
|
In article <4jsl51dev9ieg2ricbbj3kt2gqmktlret6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:57:24 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <crni5117a4frl8e1rfk48jhsthimpqjm0k@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:24:21 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <115h9pj5106bk8a@corp.supernews.com>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
[]
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that there is no
simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
Good one.
"Don't eat the yellow snow."
That will be the theme song of Halliburton, et al. personnel in ANWR.
Oh, you mean the 'Arctic National Drilling Zone.' There's no refuge
for the wildlife anymore and they'll be vanquished.
Yeah. W should organize a hunting party and go up there and shoot all of
those pesky caribou. They just get in the way of the oil rigs.
Priorities.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
13 Apr 2005 02:11:51 PM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:16:03 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <4jsl51dev9ieg2ricbbj3kt2gqmktlret6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:57:24 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <crni5117a4frl8e1rfk48jhsthimpqjm0k@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:24:21 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <115h9pj5106bk8a@corp.supernews.com>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
[]
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think that
Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that there is no
simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
Good one.
"Don't eat the yellow snow."
That will be the theme song of Halliburton, et al. personnel in ANWR.
Oh, you mean the 'Arctic National Drilling Zone.' There's no refuge
for the wildlife anymore and they'll be vanquished.
Yeah. W should organize a hunting party and go up there and shoot all of
those pesky caribou. They just get in the way of the oil rigs.
Priorities.
They will. Fresh meat for the crews and it reduces their butcher bill
and thus increases prophet$.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
12 Apr 2005 01:47:51 PM |
|
|
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-6F2169.22160311042005@news.giganews.com:
In article <4jsl51dev9ieg2ricbbj3kt2gqmktlret6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:57:24 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:
In article <crni5117a4frl8e1rfk48jhsthimpqjm0k@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:24:21 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:
In article <115h9pj5106bk8a@corp.supernews.com>,
wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
[]
Want true tax reform? Vote Libertarian. I used to think
that Libertarian was the answer but now I realize that
there is no simple
answer.
I agree, there is no simple answer.
/cue "The Monster" by Steppenwolf.
or the "Gotterdammerung" by Wagner. :(
The Meek Ain't Getting Nothing" by Frank Zappa.
Good one.
"Don't eat the yellow snow."
That will be the theme song of Halliburton, et al. personnel in
ANWR.
Oh, you mean the 'Arctic National Drilling Zone.' There's no
refuge for the wildlife anymore and they'll be vanquished.
Yeah. W should organize a hunting party and go up there and shoot all
of those pesky caribou. They just get in the way of the oil rigs.
Priorities.
Oh, those poor caribou. They have to detour around a whole two-mile-
square bit of former wilderness. How awful!
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 12:56:19 PM |
|
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In our last episode <Xns96304338E962Ebvzxrpl@199.45.49.11>, rj pirouetted
gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus it
would cost more.
Not to mention we'd have to, well, strip mine Canada.
I'm sure they won't mind.
Much.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 04:53:12 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism
rj pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the mideast.
It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground and thus it
would cost more.
Not to mention we'd have to, well, strip mine Canada.
I'm sure they won't mind.
You must be confusing precious-metal mining with oil and gas mining,
don't you think?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 05:55:38 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:rs4851ljct9r8ou8jr5o9ipbo3ddgt3a22@4ax.com:
Mark K. Bilbo <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism
rj pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast. It just would require more effort to get it out of the
ground and thus it would cost more.
Not to mention we'd have to, well, strip mine Canada.
I'm sure they won't mind.
You must be confusing precious-metal mining with oil and gas mining,
don't you think?
A lot of Canada's petroleum is in the form of oil shale. They mine it
like coal and then bake the oil out of it. Nasty messy business.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
08 Apr 2005 02:10:43 PM |
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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:55:38 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in
news:rs4851ljct9r8ou8jr5o9ipbo3ddgt3a22@4ax.com:
Mark K. Bilbo <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism
rj pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast. It just would require more effort to get it out of the
ground and thus it would cost more.
Not to mention we'd have to, well, strip mine Canada.
I'm sure they won't mind.
You must be confusing precious-metal mining with oil and gas mining,
don't you think?
A lot of Canada's petroleum is in the form of oil shale. They mine it
like coal and then bake the oil out of it. Nasty messy business.
/cue bad visual of "shale pot pie."
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT - The Mother Of All Oil Shocks Is Looming |
06 Apr 2005 09:02:15 PM |
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In our last episode <rs4851ljct9r8ou8jr5o9ipbo3ddgt3a22@4ax.com>, Elroy
Willis pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
Mark K. Bilbo <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in alt.atheism
rj pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
From what I have heard Canada has more reserves in oil than the
mideast. It just would require more effort to get it out of the ground
and thus it would cost more.
Not to mention we'd have to, well, strip mine Canada.
I'm sure they won't mind.
You must be confusing precious-metal mining with oil and gas mining, don't
you think?
Shale oil. Canada may have upwards of 175 billion barrels worth. As I
recall, some oil companies are scraping Alberta off the planet even as we
type.
(Well, they *do say they'll put it back)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subvers | | | | | |
