On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:28:11 -0000, "Mark W" <mark.whickman@ic.ac.uk>,
Message ID: <boik08$1eome4$1@ID-182137.news.uni-berlin.de> wrote in
alt.atheism;

"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:FDVqb.441$zc1.56@fe3.columbus.rr.com...

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:tr0oqv8a902gdfutiv4vkr6vl95gjdmboq@4ax.com...

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:51:59 GMT, Dave W

Message ID: <Xns942BB568AF042ou812@199.45.49.11> wrote in

stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in

news:nenlqvs4ki04eo601h1f156a3cd72b7qp4@

4ax.com:

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:23:22 -0600, "Wolf333"

Message ID: <vqjj5fdv0gpna4@corp.supernews.com> wrote in

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:mhijqv89djg2ilvjjg7c13c7c235b2dnfv@4ax.com...

Daughter's computer's got a gremlin in it. After about a 1/2

of

run time it goes into 'terminal reboot' mode. I have no idea

this

is happening or where to look. Any ideas?

Virus check ok?

Yes.

If so, it sounds like a heat problem. Make sure all cards are

properly, make sure proc fan is spinning (people tend to overlook

this)

It does, but don't see how. Fan is spinning, cards are seated.

protective tape was removed from the bottom of the heat sink.
Hmmm.....maybe I should add some heat sink compound?

Try a cpu temp utility like CPU Cool which is freeware. If not just

remove the cpu temp from the troubleshooting list. It does sound

heat related problem. It may be a shorted trace on the Mobo, opening

when there is sufficient heat transferred to the board.
</WAG>

Thank you.

Here's a thought, Stoney, something a lot of people overlook. If it's a

heat

problem, your case could be to blame, especially if you're running an

processor. They tend to run hot anyway, and fast processors need a case

with

good airflow. A lot of older or smaller cases just can't get enough
circulation going to keep the processor cool enough even with a good

cooler. You might want to take a look at some of the offerings from
Thermaltake, Cooler Master or Enermax. Thermaltake's Xaser III has the

best

airflow of any case on the market, but it's a bit pricey.

Failing that, get hold of one of the cheaper water cooling kits. Or take
your heatsink, clean the chip die and heatsink with Isopropyl alcohol,

shine the heatsink to a mirror finish with fine grade wet and dry paper.

arctic silver heatsink compound.
What's the fan arrangement in that case?

Two in lower front, a power supply fan and another rear fan about 1/2
way down the case. And, yes, the front ones pull air in while the rear
fans exhaust it.

stoney <stoney@the.net> astounded us with:
news:0njqqvo53a40hu90ele84damqoio7rc7d2@4ax.com:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:10:29 GMT, "John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net>,
Message ID: <FDVqb.441$zc1.56@fe3.columbus.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism;

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:tr0oqv8a902gdfutiv4vkr6vl95gjdmboq@4ax.com...

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:51:59 GMT, Dave W <askme@formyaddy.comINVALID>,
Message ID: <Xns942BB568AF042ou812@199.45.49.11> wrote in alt.atheism;

stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:nenlqvs4ki04eo601h1f156a3cd72b7qp4@ 4ax.com:

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:23:22 -0600, "Wolf333" <wolfe333@excite.com>,
Message ID: <vqjj5fdv0gpna4@corp.supernews.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:mhijqv89djg2ilvjjg7c13c7c235b2dnfv@4ax.com...

Daughter's computer's got a gremlin in it. After about a 1/2
hour of run time it goes into 'terminal reboot' mode. I have no
idea why

this

is happening or where to look. Any ideas?

Virus check ok?

Yes.

If so, it sounds like a heat problem. Make sure all cards are
seated properly, make sure proc fan is spinning (people tend to
overlook this)

It does, but don't see how. Fan is spinning, cards are seated.
The protective tape was removed from the bottom of the heat sink.
Hmmm.....maybe I should add some heat sink compound?

Try a cpu temp utility like CPU Cool which is freeware. If not just
to remove the cpu temp from the troubleshooting list. It does sound
like a heat related problem. It may be a shorted trace on the Mobo,
opening up when there is sufficient heat transferred to the board.
</WAG>

Thank you.

Here's a thought, Stoney, something a lot of people overlook. If it's a
heat problem, your case could be to blame, especially if you're running
an AMD processor. They tend to run hot anyway, and fast processors need
a case with good airflow.

IIRC the cpu is the XP 2000 and there are four fans in the case.

A lot of older or smaller cases just can't get enough
circulation going to keep the processor cool enough even with a good CPU
cooler. You might want to take a look at some of the offerings from
Thermaltake, Cooler Master or Enermax. Thermaltake's Xaser III has the
best airflow of any case on the market, but it's a bit pricey.

If it turns out to be needed, I've got a tower case I can use.

In putting the heat sink fan assembly on the CPU I did have some
trouble. That could have resulted in insufficient thermal compound.

I haven't seen the start of this thread, but thermal compound the size of

grain of uncooked rice is adequate for Athlons and Durons, applied as a
smear, use a credit or business card, it only needs to "wet" the die.

stoney <stoney@the.net> astounded us with:
news:0njqqvo53a40hu90ele84damqoio7rc7d2@4ax.com:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:10:29 GMT, "John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net>,
Message ID: <FDVqb.441$zc1.56@fe3.columbus.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism;

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:tr0oqv8a902gdfutiv4vkr6vl95gjdmboq@4ax.com...

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:51:59 GMT, Dave W <askme@formyaddy.comINVALID>,
Message ID: <Xns942BB568AF042ou812@199.45.49.11> wrote in alt.atheism;

stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:nenlqvs4ki04eo601h1f156a3cd72b7qp4@ 4ax.com:

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:23:22 -0600, "Wolf333" <wolfe333@excite.com>,
Message ID: <vqjj5fdv0gpna4@corp.supernews.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;

"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:mhijqv89djg2ilvjjg7c13c7c235b2dnfv@4ax.com...

Daughter's computer's got a gremlin in it. After about a 1/2
hour of run time it goes into 'terminal reboot' mode. I have no
idea why

this

is happening or where to look. Any ideas?

Virus check ok?

Yes.

If so, it sounds like a heat problem. Make sure all cards are
seated properly, make sure proc fan is spinning (people tend to
overlook this)

It does, but don't see how. Fan is spinning, cards are seated.
The protective tape was removed from the bottom of the heat sink.
Hmmm.....maybe I should add some heat sink compound?

Try a cpu temp utility like CPU Cool which is freeware. If not just
to remove the cpu temp from the troubleshooting list. It does sound
like a heat related problem. It may be a shorted trace on the Mobo,
opening up when there is sufficient heat transferred to the board.
</WAG>

Thank you.

Here's a thought, Stoney, something a lot of people overlook. If it's a
heat problem, your case could be to blame, especially if you're running
an AMD processor. They tend to run hot anyway, and fast processors need
a case with good airflow.

IIRC the cpu is the XP 2000 and there are four fans in the case.

A lot of older or smaller cases just can't get enough
circulation going to keep the processor cool enough even with a good CPU
cooler. You might want to take a look at some of the offerings from
Thermaltake, Cooler Master or Enermax. Thermaltake's Xaser III has the
best airflow of any case on the market, but it's a bit pricey.

If it turns out to be needed, I've got a tower case I can use.

In putting the heat sink fan assembly on the CPU I did have some
trouble. That could have resulted in insufficient thermal compound.

I haven't seen the start of this thread, but thermal compound the size of a
grain of uncooked rice is adequate for Athlons and Durons, applied as a
smear, use a credit or business card, it only needs to "wet" the die.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:32:42 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:52:29 GMT, Kenneth Doyle <nobody@notmail.com>,
Message ID: <Xns94316571BAEAEnobodynotmailcom@61.9.191.5> wrote in
alt.atheism;

stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:e9i2rvsqb9d7tu1647jhah224o7rpr8ame@4ax.com:

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:59:04 GMT, Kenneth Doyle <nobody@notmail.com>,
Message ID: <Xns943070BB3E683nobodynotmailcom@61.9.191.5> wrote in
alt.atheism;

stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:cjnlqvknn7skl00a0esl16a2a785ssp3ih@4ax.com:

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:26:51 +0000, Martin Thomas
<mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net>, Message ID:
<7omjqv8pdd1g1ojjso1o2rnm0d6uhdvolt@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:13:54 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Daughter's computer's got a gremlin in it. After about a 1/2 hour
of run time it goes into 'terminal reboot' mode. I have no idea
why this is happening or where to look. Any ideas?

Could you give us more details?
Is it a PC or a MAC?

PC

AMD chip

What operating system does it have?

Win 98

And can you tell us a bit more about what exactly goes wrong? If
you have the exact wording of any error message that appears on
screen, that could help a lot.

No error message. Unit will have been running a pgrm fine and go
into a constant reboot mode.

Being on a 5gig HD, I would suggest updating your system to one that
uses NTFS. Either that, or partition the drive into 1gig partitions.
The FAT is very inefficient on larger drives. It's just possible that
you're running out of resources, even though the total reported file
size seems relatively small.

With one program running?

Hmmm... I'm probably on the wrong track then.

It should be noted that sliding the HD into a different computer works
fine.

What makes you suspect the HD? Did you try a different HD in with this
machine?

Nothing. The HD has always been stable. I mentioned it simply to
'cover all the bases.'

I'm going to have to investigate the thermal bonding of the CPU heat
sink.

You mentioned that earlier in the thread; it's a good place to start. I
believe you also mentioned that it's a new machine, but some parts were
taken from an old box. If that includes the HD, you could try updating
its drivers. You can usually do that on-line at the manufacturer's web
site; see if they have a "support" link. A last resort would be to check
your power supply.

The drivers are fine. I temporarily hooked in an old power supply as
I'm aware the power supplies in cheap cases are bottom grade. System
was rock stable. So I'll be ordering a good power supply.

Many thanks to all for their assistance.

Stoney, I think you are onto something power-supply wise. Damn, I
can't begin to tell of the wide range of otherwise inexplicable "fool
the experts" types of problems I've seen at work that were caused by
power, and that goes with grounding, too.

YEP, as simple as a voltage source (and ground) seems, there is much
more than meets the analytical eye. You need a good storage 'scope
with DC current probes as well if you really want to see it, as well
as knowing what to look for.

One of mine began randomly powering off, then escalated to failing to
stay on for more than a second. This was after I replaced out the CD-R
drive with a better one - perhaps going a few watts over the supply's
bogie.

At least the supplies are designed to prevent over-voltage, or lots of
us would have expensive chips to replace.

And they're cheap enough to take the gamble when other reasonable
efforts fail.

(since there are billions* of transitions of gate status per second,
each one affecting current flow, and millions* of junctions whose
state is affected by voltage signals, the power supply must be very
stable, because each one of those state changes must be correctly
derived by program flow, not caused by noise.) ( *could be more - I'm
guessing))

drift