| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Forbes" |
| Date: |
31 Oct 2007 05:51:52 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Doing something scary for Halloween |
I'm doing something scary today....installing XP on my computer! gads
I've been running windows 2000 for a few years, it seems to work ok,
for most things. Some of the newer stuff for sale seems to require
XP, though.
I was at my favorite catholic thrift store last week and found Windows
XP Pro (first version) for sale...the folder with the CD and the key
on the back, for $2. I can't resist high quality Microsoft products
when the price is appropriate! so I bought it.
And it seems to work....I've spent all day copying files and stuff,
and now I'm mostly back on line.
It's still scary though
Jim
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
31 Oct 2007 07:24:56 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote in message
news:1193871112.986490.308890@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I'm doing something scary today....installing XP on my computer! gads
I've been running windows 2000 for a few years, it seems to work ok,
for most things. Some of the newer stuff for sale seems to require
XP, though.
I was at my favorite catholic thrift store last week and found Windows
XP Pro (first version) for sale...the folder with the CD and the key
on the back, for $2. I can't resist high quality Microsoft products
when the price is appropriate! so I bought it.
And it seems to work....I've spent all day copying files and stuff,
and now I'm mostly back on line.
It's still scary though
Jim
And just think, you have Vista to look forward to :-)
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
31 Oct 2007 08:01:04 PM |
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Fester wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote in message
news:1193871112.986490.308890@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I'm doing something scary today....installing XP on my computer! gads
And just think, you have Vista to look forward to :-)
uh, yeah....by then computer hardware should be fast enough to run
linux!
Jim
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| User: "Nosterill" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
01 Nov 2007 06:55:07 AM |
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On Nov 1, 12:24 am, "Fester" <n...@home.com> wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbnos...@selectric.org> wrote in message
news:1193871112.986490.308890@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I'm doing something scary today....installing XP on my computer! gads
I've been running windows 2000 for a few years, it seems to work ok,
for most things. Some of the newer stuff for sale seems to require
XP, though.
I was at my favorite catholic thrift store last week and found Windows
XP Pro (first version) for sale...the folder with the CD and the key
on the back, for $2. I can't resist high quality Microsoft products
when the price is appropriate! so I bought it.
And it seems to work....I've spent all day copying files and stuff,
and now I'm mostly back on line.
It's still scary though
Jim
And just think, you have Vista to look forward to :-)-
But get a load of extra RAM before you do! My PC practically ground to
a halt with Vista and it took an additional 1GByte of RAM to get it
back to useable performance.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
01 Nov 2007 08:15:16 AM |
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Nosterill wrote:
On Nov 1, 12:24 am, "Fester" <n...@home.com> wrote:
And just think, you have Vista to look forward to :-)-
But get a load of extra RAM before you do! My PC practically ground to
a halt with Vista and it took an additional 1GByte of RAM to get it
back to useable performance.
task manager says I'm using about 128mb right now.
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
Jim
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| User: "Chris H. Fleming" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
01 Nov 2007 08:51:38 AM |
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On Nov 1, 9:15 am, J Forbes <jforbnos...@selectric.org> wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
On Nov 1, 12:24 am, "Fester" <n...@home.com> wrote:
And just think, you have Vista to look forward to :-)-
But get a load of extra RAM before you do! My PC practically ground to
a halt with Vista and it took an additional 1GByte of RAM to get it
back to useable performance.
task manager says I'm using about 128mb right now.
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
Jim
You can run Linux on a 486 if you don't use the bloated Gnome/KDE
stuff and run a hundred daemons.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
01 Nov 2007 09:04:18 AM |
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Chris H. Fleming wrote:
On Nov 1, 9:15 am, J Forbes <jforbnos...@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
Jim
You can run Linux on a 486 if you don't use the bloated Gnome/KDE
stuff and run a hundred daemons.
Sorry, I'm talking about being useable...and not requiring a lot of
work to configure it....still a long ways to go! (yes, I've been
playing with several distros recently)
Jim
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
01 Nov 2007 11:56:16 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Nosterill wrote:
On Nov 1, 12:24 am, "Fester" <n...@home.com> wrote:
And just think, you have Vista to look forward to :-)-
But get a load of extra RAM before you do! My PC practically ground to
a halt with Vista and it took an additional 1GByte of RAM to get it
back to useable performance.
task manager says I'm using about 128mb right now.
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation
and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger
with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change
them."
- Abraham Lincoln
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
01 Nov 2007 05:39:00 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
Jim
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
06 Nov 2007 08:58:10 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0700, J Forbes wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
What, you're unable to differentiate between "run Linux" and "achieve a
particular and significantly resource-intensive task"?
<checking...> nope, you're not using WebTV.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
06 Nov 2007 11:49:10 AM |
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Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0700, J Forbes wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
What, you're unable to differentiate between "run Linux" and "achieve a
particular and significantly resource-intensive task"?
Apparently for this audience, I need to differentiate between "doing
useful work at a reasonable speed" and "being able to sit there and
look pretty". I can run windows on a 4.77 mhz 8088, and it's just as
useless as linux running on a 486.
<checking...> nope, you're not using WebTV.
yeah, thanks.
Jim
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
06 Nov 2007 02:30:30 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:49:10 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0700, J Forbes wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
What, you're unable to differentiate between "run Linux" and "achieve a
particular and significantly resource-intensive task"?
Apparently for this audience, I need to differentiate between "doing
useful work at a reasonable speed" and "being able to sit there and
look pretty". I can run windows on a 4.77 mhz 8088, and it's just as
useless as linux running on a 486.
I did a lot of work on Linux on that computer. No X-Win, though, just
compilations, assemblies, computations ...
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my
contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him, the
spinal cord would fully suffice."
- Albert Einstein
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
06 Nov 2007 04:52:20 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:49:10 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0700, J Forbes wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
What, you're unable to differentiate between "run Linux" and "achieve a
particular and significantly resource-intensive task"?
Apparently for this audience, I need to differentiate between "doing
useful work at a reasonable speed" and "being able to sit there and
look pretty". I can run windows on a 4.77 mhz 8088, and it's just as
useless as linux running on a 486.
I did a lot of work on Linux on that computer. No X-Win, though, just
compilations, assemblies, computations ...
yes, and my brother did a lot of work on his 6800 homebrew system in
the 70s....
but nowadays we seem to expect to do a lot more with our toys.
Jim
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
06 Nov 2007 05:25:47 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:52:20 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:49:10 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0700, J Forbes wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
What, you're unable to differentiate between "run Linux" and "achieve a
particular and significantly resource-intensive task"?
Apparently for this audience, I need to differentiate between "doing
useful work at a reasonable speed" and "being able to sit there and
look pretty". I can run windows on a 4.77 mhz 8088, and it's just as
useless as linux running on a 486.
I did a lot of work on Linux on that computer. No X-Win, though, just
compilations, assemblies, computations ...
yes, and my brother did a lot of work on his 6800 homebrew system in
the 70s....
but nowadays we seem to expect to do a lot more with our toys.
I can still compile a current Linux kernel on that computer.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit
priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies
about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and
have always been an atheist."
- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945,
responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein
to convert from atheism. Article by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic
magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1997
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 12:34:17 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:52:20 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:49:10 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0700, J Forbes wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
What, you're unable to differentiate between "run Linux" and "achieve a
particular and significantly resource-intensive task"?
Apparently for this audience, I need to differentiate between "doing
useful work at a reasonable speed" and "being able to sit there and
look pretty". I can run windows on a 4.77 mhz 8088, and it's just as
useless as linux running on a 486.
I did a lot of work on Linux on that computer. No X-Win, though, just
compilations, assemblies, computations ...
yes, and my brother did a lot of work on his 6800 homebrew system in
the 70s....
but nowadays we seem to expect to do a lot more with our toys.
I can still compile a current Linux kernel on that computer.
That's great! too bad I'm not into compiling Linux kernels.
Anyways, hopefully by the time windoze XP no longer can do what I need
to do, I'll have a machine that's fast enough to do what I need to do
with Linux.
Jim
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 11:02:32 PM |
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On 7 Nov 2007 10:34:17 -0800, J Forbes <jforbnospam@selectric.org>
wrote:
Anyways, hopefully by the time windoze XP no longer can do what I need
to do, I'll have a machine that's fast enough to do what I need to do
with Linux.
Linux with a GUI runs faster than Windows with a GUI - and does a lot
more. But Linux is like a Model-T Ford. You have to know how to flip
the spark lever when you turn the crank. Windows has an electric
starter and an automatic transmission. But if the starter goes bad,
or the battery is dead, the car won't run. You can always start the
Model-T like a scooter.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we"
- George W. Bush - Aug 5, 2004
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 11:18:19 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 7 Nov 2007 10:34:17 -0800, J Forbes <jforbnospam@selectric.org>
wrote:
Anyways, hopefully by the time windoze XP no longer can do what I need
to do, I'll have a machine that's fast enough to do what I need to do
with Linux.
Linux with a GUI runs faster than Windows with a GUI
not the versions I've tried so far. Not by a long shot.
- and does a lot
more. But Linux is like a Model-T Ford. You have to know how to flip
the spark lever when you turn the crank. Windows has an electric
starter and an automatic transmission. But if the starter goes bad,
or the battery is dead, the car won't run. You can always start the
Model-T like a scooter.
I guess I've been lucky, I've only had windows die once (to where it
would not boot) in the past decade or so.
Jim
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 08:11:27 AM |
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On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:25:47 -0500, Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:52:20 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:49:10 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0700, J Forbes wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:15:16 -0700, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Hopefully by the time I need to use Vista, I will have a machine that
is fast enough to run linux instead.
My 486DX50 is fast enough to run Linux with 5 MEGS of RAM.
Great, I'll send you some videos I need edited.
What, you're unable to differentiate between "run Linux" and "achieve a
particular and significantly resource-intensive task"?
Apparently for this audience, I need to differentiate between "doing
useful work at a reasonable speed" and "being able to sit there and
look pretty". I can run windows on a 4.77 mhz 8088, and it's just as
useless as linux running on a 486.
I did a lot of work on Linux on that computer. No X-Win, though, just
compilations, assemblies, computations ...
yes, and my brother did a lot of work on his 6800 homebrew system in
the 70s....
but nowadays we seem to expect to do a lot more with our toys.
I can still compile a current Linux kernel on that computer.
Or do endless other things, useful things, just things he'd probably never
consider because Windows hasn't got a hope of doing 'em on such a machine.
My personal pet fav for such machines is servers. File, print, proxy,
firewall, web, lan-side mail, caching news server, whatever.
Windows? You need the _server_ version to do a lot of that stuff, at
least using "real" server apps, and the server version just ain't gonna
run on such a machine. Well, hell, neither will the desktop versions.
One thing that's always bugged me about Windows, though, is the
requirement for a GUI. While in theory one can hack the system to the
point it won't launch the GUI, so much of what one needs to do can't be
done except through the GUI - meaning that even a server, where there's
just no reason for such things, there it is, sucking up resources, burning
cycles, and more importantly, executing completely unnecessary code.
Security rule number one: don't run anything on the machine that doesn't
absolutely have to run; all code can have flaws, so the less code running,
the fewer opportunities to get exploited.
A web server has absolutely no need of a GUI. Nor does a mail server.
News server. DB server. Etc, etc, etc. Windows? Too bad - run all this
extra crap, suck up more resources, increase risks, just cuz we think it
should all be pretty.
Ick.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 09:18:57 AM |
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Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:25:47 -0500, Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:52:20 -0800, J Forbes
but nowadays we seem to expect to do a lot more with our toys.
I can still compile a current Linux kernel on that computer.
Or do endless other things, useful things, just things he'd probably never
consider because Windows hasn't got a hope of doing 'em on such a machine.
My personal pet fav for such machines is servers. File, print, proxy,
firewall, web, lan-side mail, caching news server, whatever.
Since I don't need to run a server, Linux loses out on this one for
me. My printer has a built in server, my web host has a mail server,
etc. I can share files over my little LAN with windoze (and see them
with a Linux machine)
Linux is great for folks who really like to do stuff the hard way, my
kid loves it....but I also noticed he stayed up all night because he
was putting together a video presentation for school, using his linux
machine, only to have it not be able to save the final file, so he had
to do it all over again on a windoze computer.
I would dearly love to be able to use linux as my main OS, but it just
isn't there yet....too slow, not enough reliable apps that do what I
need, etc. If I were running an ISP I'd probably be all over Linux.
I'm not, I'm just a "normal" computer user. Windoze is made for
normal computer users, Linux isn't.
Jim
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 10:59:53 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:18:57 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
I would dearly love to be able to use linux as my main OS, but it just
isn't there yet....too slow, not enough reliable apps that do what I
need, etc. If I were running an ISP I'd probably be all over Linux.
I'm not, I'm just a "normal" computer user. Windoze is made for
normal computer users, Linux isn't.
Well ... not really. Windows is meant for people who treat computers
like appliances. Computers aren't quite there yet, which is why so
many people have so many problems with their computers. They don't
understand what the computer is doing, so they don't understand why it
isn't doing what they want.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 11:22:23 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:18:57 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
I would dearly love to be able to use linux as my main OS, but it just
isn't there yet....too slow, not enough reliable apps that do what I
need, etc. If I were running an ISP I'd probably be all over Linux.
I'm not, I'm just a "normal" computer user. Windoze is made for
normal computer users, Linux isn't.
Well ... not really. Windows is meant for people who treat computers
like appliances. Computers aren't quite there yet, which is why so
many people have so many problems with their computers. They don't
understand what the computer is doing, so they don't understand why it
isn't doing what they want.
Of course. And they don't want to have to understand what it is
doing, they just want it to do what they want it to do.
Keep working on linux, it would be really great if it could take over
the os market. Too bad I'm too lazy to help :)
Jim
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 05:56:54 PM |
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[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:18:57 -0800, J Forbes wrote:
Linux is great for folks who really like to do stuff the hard way
Nope, that's Windows. Linux is _easier_ to use than Windows, not harder.
It is _easier_ to maintain, not harder. It is _easier_ to secure, not
harder.
I used Windows since before the days of 3.0; hell, I developed for Windows
since before then. At some point you realize you keep paying more but not
really getting more. Some folks like to spend lots of money for little
benefit; I'm just not one of 'em.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 06:11:18 PM |
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Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:18:57 -0800, J Forbes wrote:
Linux is great for folks who really like to do stuff the hard way
Nope, that's Windows. Linux is _easier_ to use than Windows, not harder.
It is _easier_ to maintain, not harder. It is _easier_ to secure, not
harder.
I used Windows since before the days of 3.0; hell, I developed for Windows
since before then. At some point you realize you keep paying more but not
really getting more. Some folks like to spend lots of money for little
benefit; I'm just not one of 'em.
paying?
maybe you missed the first post in the thread, where I mentioned that
I paid $2 for my "new" Windows XP disk and key.
I think it's great that Linux distros include a development
environment, but I think it's not so great that you NEED a development
environment to use it....think about it....
Jim
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 09:47:39 PM |
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[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:11:18 -0800, J Forbes wrote:
I used Windows since before the days of 3.0; hell, I developed for Windows
since before then. At some point you realize you keep paying more but not
really getting more. Some folks like to spend lots of money for little
benefit; I'm just not one of 'em.
paying?
Correct, paying. As in either buying it boxed, or having the price
"included" as part of the system sale, which is the norm for the vast
majority of users.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 10:07:35 PM |
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Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:11:18 -0800, J Forbes wrote:
I used Windows since before the days of 3.0; hell, I developed for Windows
since before then. At some point you realize you keep paying more but not
really getting more. Some folks like to spend lots of money for little
benefit; I'm just not one of 'em.
paying?
Correct, paying. As in either buying it boxed, or having the price
"included" as part of the system sale, which is the norm for the vast
majority of users.
Oh, that explains it. I guess if I were paying retail for windoze, I
would expect it to be much more than it is....
Still, as low cost/free operating systems go, 5 year old windoze still
does a lot more for me than brand new linux. And it has for the past
8 years (since I first played around with linux). Interesting.
Jim
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| User: "Don Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 07:09:34 PM |
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On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 15:56:54 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com>
wrote:
[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:18:57 -0800, J Forbes wrote:
Linux is great for folks who really like to do stuff the hard way
Nope, that's Windows. Linux is _easier_ to use than Windows, not harder.
It is _easier_ to maintain, not harder. It is _easier_ to secure, not
harder.
I used Windows since before the days of 3.0; hell, I developed for Windows
since before then. At some point you realize you keep paying more but not
really getting more. Some folks like to spend lots of money for little
benefit; I'm just not one of 'em.
I have just ordered a sub-notebook ( ASUS Eee PC 4G ) that is a basic machine
for taking notes, doing email and the web, etc. It is small: 7 inch screen, and
the keyboard will be small, too, but the payoff is that it weighs less than 2
pounds. It can ride around in my briefcase without giving me a bent shoulder.
And it runs on Linux. I expect it shall do everything I want it to do, and all
for $399.
WOA (Wicked Old Atheist) #2278
If you can't be a dirty old man, what is the point of being an old man?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 10:19:21 PM |
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[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:09:34 -0500, Don Martin wrote:
I have just ordered a sub-notebook ( ASUS Eee PC 4G ) that is a basic machine
for taking notes, doing email and the web, etc. It is small: 7 inch screen, and
the keyboard will be small, too, but the payoff is that it weighs less than 2
pounds. It can ride around in my briefcase without giving me a bent shoulder.
And it runs on Linux. I expect it shall do everything I want it to do, and all
for $399.
Indeed. Apparently there's a whole slew of new laptop offerings coming
out which are inexpensive, entirely functional - though not monsters,
they're not, say, gamer machines - and come with Linux bundled.
Walmart's new $200 PC comes with a variant of Ubuntu.
Dell, HP and several others are offering Linux-based machines.
Funny thing, you know. Here's all these rather serious capitalist types,
you know, the sort of folks who want to make money, something they can
only really do by giving the customers what the customers want, yet here
they are putting together prefab Linux machines.
Yet for some reason, Forbes seems to think Linux isn't viable. I guess
these retailers are just screaming bloody idiots, thinking they can sell
this crap. They should really check in with him, first, he'll set them
straight.
Oh, and let's not forget OLPC. You know, the humanitarian effort to put
affordable, usable computing into the hands of people - kids, primarily -
who would never be able to afford them otherwise. Hey, that gives me an
idea - let's check specs.
AMD Geode, 433 Mhz.
256MB ram.
1024MB NAND flash storage - no HD.
And the OS? Linux Kernel: Linux 2.6.22; Fedora 7 base environment.
I wonder why they chose this if, as Forbes suggests, Linux just isn't
usable? Even more to the point, if it's so slow he can't use it on a
"real" machine, it would be virtually impossible to use on _this_ machine,
which would mean the project would be, essentially, a guaranteed failure.
I guess the people behind it are just morons. You know, idiots like
Antonio Battro, "Considered a world leader in the new field of
neuroeducation". Mary Lou Jepsen, "a pioneer in display technologies."
Habib Khan, has three decades of rich experience in international
education development."
Nope, morons all - just ask Forbes. They must be, as they're basing this
thing on Linux, yet it doesn't have nearly the horsepower his machine does
and it's "too slow" there, so obviously it'll be even slower, completely
unusable, on this machine, a guaranteed failure, so these people *must* be
morons to base the system on it.
Oh, well, it's nice we have people such as Forbes who can keep us all on
the true path, who can guide us all away from such foibles. Nice to know
we have someone so unboundedly intelligent that he can pat all these
people on the head and explain to them why he's right, they're wrong and
they should do things his way.
I'm sure, by this time next month, after he's sent off his comments to
them, explaining how their selection of Linux essentially guarantees the
failure of the project, we'll see them all switch to running Vista on the
machines.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 11:15:41 PM |
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Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:09:34 -0500, Don Martin wrote:
I have just ordered a sub-notebook ( ASUS Eee PC 4G ) that is a basic machine
for taking notes, doing email and the web, etc. It is small: 7 inch screen, and
the keyboard will be small, too, but the payoff is that it weighs less than 2
pounds. It can ride around in my briefcase without giving me a bent shoulder.
And it runs on Linux. I expect it shall do everything I want it to do, and all
for $399.
Indeed. Apparently there's a whole slew of new laptop offerings coming
out which are inexpensive, entirely functional - though not monsters,
they're not, say, gamer machines - and come with Linux bundled.
Walmart's new $200 PC comes with a variant of Ubuntu.
Dell, HP and several others are offering Linux-based machines.
Funny thing, you know. Here's all these rather serious capitalist types,
you know, the sort of folks who want to make money, something they can
only really do by giving the customers what the customers want, yet here
they are putting together prefab Linux machines.
I wonder if it will work this time? There was a big push to put linux
on computers about 9 years ago, and it didn't take. Fortunately,
linux has matured since then, and things do look better this time
around.
It is kind of surprising that it has taken this long for it to happen
though....linux is free, after all, yet millions and millions of
computer buyers still pay $$$ for that windows crap. I wonder why
that is? strange.
I'm sure, by this time next month, after he's sent off his comments to
them, explaining how their selection of Linux essentially guarantees the
failure of the project, we'll see them all switch to running Vista on the
machines.
I think Vista may be just the boost that Linux needs....from what I've
heard it's really as bad as you think XP is.
(and in case you haven't figure it out yet, I think that Windows needs
several years to settle down before it becomes usable. No Vista for
me, thanks....this whole discussion started because I was expressing
my hope that I will have a machine fast enough to run linux in several
years in lieu of vista....and I probably will)
Jim
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
15 Nov 2007 02:01:24 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:15:41 -0800, J Forbes
<jforbnospam@selectric.org> wrote:
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:09:34 -0500, Don Martin wrote:
I have just ordered a sub-notebook ( ASUS Eee PC 4G ) that is a basic machine
for taking notes, doing email and the web, etc. It is small: 7 inch screen, and
the keyboard will be small, too, but the payoff is that it weighs less than 2
pounds. It can ride around in my briefcase without giving me a bent shoulder.
And it runs on Linux. I expect it shall do everything I want it to do, and all
for $399.
Indeed. Apparently there's a whole slew of new laptop offerings coming
out which are inexpensive, entirely functional - though not monsters,
they're not, say, gamer machines - and come with Linux bundled.
Walmart's new $200 PC comes with a variant of Ubuntu.
Dell, HP and several others are offering Linux-based machines.
Funny thing, you know. Here's all these rather serious capitalist types,
you know, the sort of folks who want to make money, something they can
only really do by giving the customers what the customers want, yet here
they are putting together prefab Linux machines.
I wonder if it will work this time? There was a big push to put linux
on computers about 9 years ago, and it didn't take. Fortunately,
linux has matured since then, and things do look better this time
around.
It is kind of surprising that it has taken this long for it to happen
though....linux is free, after all, yet millions and millions of
computer buyers still pay $$$ for that windows crap. I wonder why
that is? strange.
I'm sure, by this time next month, after he's sent off his comments to
them, explaining how their selection of Linux essentially guarantees the
failure of the project, we'll see them all switch to running Vista on the
machines.
I think Vista may be just the boost that Linux needs....from what I've
heard it's really as bad as you think XP is.
Much worse, actually.
Vista cost benefit analysis
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
(and in case you haven't figure it out yet, I think that Windows needs
several years to settle down before it becomes usable. No Vista for
me, thanks....this whole discussion started because I was expressing
my hope that I will have a machine fast enough to run linux in several
years in lieu of vista....and I probably will)
Jim
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
07 Nov 2007 10:53:16 PM |
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On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 06:11:27 -0800, Kelsey Bjarnason
<kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:
My personal pet fav for such machines is servers. File, print, proxy,
firewall, web, lan-side mail, caching news server, whatever.
Windows? You need the _server_ version to do a lot of that stuff, at
least using "real" server apps, and the server version just ain't gonna
run on such a machine. Well, hell, neither will the desktop versions.
One thing that's always bugged me about Windows, though, is the
requirement for a GUI. While in theory one can hack the system to the
point it won't launch the GUI, so much of what one needs to do can't be
done except through the GUI - meaning that even a server, where there's
just no reason for such things, there it is, sucking up resources, burning
cycles, and more importantly, executing completely unnecessary code.
Security rule number one: don't run anything on the machine that doesn't
absolutely have to run; all code can have flaws, so the less code running,
the fewer opportunities to get exploited.
Freesco (or another such setup) on a floppy. Even if someone manages
to get into it and eat the floppy, just boot with the backup and
create a new backup. And 5 Megs of RAM? Linux won't be able to find
the walls.
A web server has absolutely no need of a GUI. Nor does a mail server.
News server. DB server. Etc, etc, etc. Windows? Too bad - run all this
extra crap, suck up more resources, increase risks, just cuz we think it
should all be pretty.
Face it, though, most servers today, Windows or Linux, are running a
GUI. At least with Linux you can boot without a GUI and still operate
from the keyboard.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"There is something feeble and a little contemptible about
a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of
comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is
aware that they are myths and that he believes them only
because they are comforting. But he dare not face this
thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his
opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are
disputed."
- Bertrand Russell
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: Doing something scary for Halloween |
08 Nov 2007 01:56:16 AM |
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[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:53:16 -0500, Al Klein wrote:
Freesco (or another such setup) on a floppy. Even if someone manages
to get into it and eat the floppy, just boot with the backup and
create a new backup.
Indeed. Lots of options.
A web server has absolutely no need of a GUI. Nor does a mail server.
News server. DB server. Etc, etc, etc. Windows? Too bad - run all this
extra crap, suck up more resources, increase risks, just cuz we think it
should all be pretty.
Face it, though, most servers today, Windows or Linux, are running a
GUI. At least with Linux you can boot without a GUI and still operate
from the keyboard.
Dunno about that most bit. For example, here we've got (immediate to hand):
Two SMTP
One POP/Webmail/IMAP
Two (three?) Web
Two DNS + assorted goodies
Two routers
So that's 11 servers Linux-side that I can think of offhand, a grand total
of zero of which have GUIs on 'em.
No net admin worth his salt would allow a GUI on a server, at least, not
on a world-facing production server. More code = more risk, and the last
thing an externally-accessible machine needs is more risk.
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