OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"stoney"
Date:	25 Oct 2004 11:23:54 AM
Object:	OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/
International News
Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says
Nearly 380 tons of 'dual-use' explosives said to have vanished
FILE PHOTO: AL QAQAA COMPLEX IN IRAQ
APTN
The explosives were looted from the al Qaqaa complex, a former Iraqi
military facility south of Baghdad, shown in this undated photo,
according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
The Associated Press
Updated: 10:52 a.m. ET Oct. 25, 2004
VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are
missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key
role in Saddam Hussein’s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N.
nuclear agency confirmed Monday.
International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report
the materials’ disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later
Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told the Associated Press,
confirming a report published in The New York Times.
“On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry
of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric)
tons of high explosive material had gone missing,” Fleming said. The
350 metric tons is equivalent to 380 U.S. tons.
The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and
looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations,
Fleming said.
Whereabouts a mystery
“We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were
looted,” she told AP.
The disappearance of the explosives quickly became an issue in the
U.S. presidential race, with Democratic hopeful John Kerry accusing
President Bush of committing “one of the greatest blunders” of his
administration in failing to secure the materiel.
“George W. Bush who talks tough ... and brags about making America
safer, has once again failed to deliver,” Kerry told supporters in
Dover, N.H. “After being warned about the danger of major stockpiles
of explosives in Iraq, this president failed to guard those
stockpiles.”
“This is one of the great blunders of Iraq, one of the greatest
blunders of this administration and the incredible incompetence of
this president and this administration has put our troops at risk and
this country at greater risk.”
The New York Times report said that the nearly 380 tons of missing
explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs
disappeared from the former Al Qaqaa military installation.
The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish
buildings but also produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear
weaponry, the newspaper said. It said they disappeared after the
U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.
Warning from the Iraqi government
Bush’s national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed of
the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said
Iraq’s interim government recently warned the United States and U.N.
nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.
Fleming, the IAEA spokeswoman, said that the agency learned of the
disappearance on Oct. 10.
“We first took measures to authenticate it,” Fleming said. “Then on
Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S.
government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in
cooperation with Iraq’s interim government.”
“Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives
before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it’s now
out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today” in a letter
to the council president, she said.
Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on
the so-called “dual use” explosives because they could have been used
to detonate a nuclear weapon.
IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and
have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei’s repeated urging
that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.
ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq’s
nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to
suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.
Plastic explosives' components
Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles
south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but
repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether
the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents
battling coalition forces.
Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads,
and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there
before the 1991 Gulf War. The experts also oversaw the destruction of
Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons.
The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it
returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been
placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key
components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in
a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.
ElBaradei told the United Nations in February 2003 that Iraq had
declared that “HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for
use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement
plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying.”
“However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well
be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end
use of this material,” ElBaradei warned at the time.
“A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because
they do have a nuclear application,” Fleming said Monday.
The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were
broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency’s work
in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were
stolen.
© 2004 The Associated Press.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Vote for Bush. Why vote for the lesser of two evils?
No matter the candidates the superstition industry wins.
'Jesus' is a sock-puppet Christians utilize to add 'authority' to
whatever action they intend on taking. -Stoney
And Duty Imp and Rapscallion
.

User: "johac"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 01:13:47 AM

In article <4v9qn058rv5ofl269er7gi7accvmokuh91@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/

International News
Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says
Nearly 380 tons of 'dual-use' explosives said to have vanished
FILE PHOTO: AL QAQAA COMPLEX IN IRAQ
APTN
The explosives were looted from the al Qaqaa complex, a former Iraqi
military facility south of Baghdad, shown in this undated photo,
according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The Associated Press
Updated: 10:52 a.m. ET Oct. 25, 2004

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are
missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key
role in Saddam Hussein’s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N.
nuclear agency confirmed Monday.

International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report
the materials’ disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later
Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told the Associated Press,
confirming a report published in The New York Times.

“On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry
of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric)
tons of high explosive material had gone missing,” Fleming said. The
350 metric tons is equivalent to 380 U.S. tons.

The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and
looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations,
Fleming said.

Whereabouts a mystery
“We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were
looted,” she told AP.

The disappearance of the explosives quickly became an issue in the
U.S. presidential race, with Democratic hopeful John Kerry accusing
President Bush of committing “one of the greatest blunders” of his
administration in failing to secure the materiel.

“George W. Bush who talks tough ... and brags about making America
safer, has once again failed to deliver,” Kerry told supporters in
Dover, N.H. “After being warned about the danger of major stockpiles
of explosives in Iraq, this president failed to guard those
stockpiles.”

“This is one of the great blunders of Iraq, one of the greatest
blunders of this administration and the incredible incompetence of
this president and this administration has put our troops at risk and
this country at greater risk.”

The New York Times report said that the nearly 380 tons of missing
explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs
disappeared from the former Al Qaqaa military installation.

The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish
buildings but also produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear
weaponry, the newspaper said. It said they disappeared after the
U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.

Warning from the Iraqi government
Bush’s national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed of
the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said
Iraq’s interim government recently warned the United States and U.N.
nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.

Fleming, the IAEA spokeswoman, said that the agency learned of the
disappearance on Oct. 10.

“We first took measures to authenticate it,” Fleming said. “Then on
Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S.
government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in
cooperation with Iraq’s interim government.”

“Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives
before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it’s now
out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today” in a letter
to the council president, she said.

Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on
the so-called “dual use” explosives because they could have been used
to detonate a nuclear weapon.

IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and
have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei’s repeated urging
that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.

ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq’s
nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to
suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.

Plastic explosives' components
Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles
south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but
repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether
the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents
battling coalition forces.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads,
and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there
before the 1991 Gulf War. The experts also oversaw the destruction of
Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it
returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been
placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key
components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in
a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

ElBaradei told the United Nations in February 2003 that Iraq had
declared that “HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for
use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement
plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying.”

“However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well
be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end
use of this material,” ElBaradei warned at the time.

“A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because
they do have a nuclear application,” Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were
broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency’s work
in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were
stolen.

Fucking incredible! One would think that such a stockpile would be one
of the first things that the occupying force would have secured. I guess
that the troops were too busy looking for the phony WMDs to worry about
the real threats. Way to go Dubya!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.

User: "wbarwell"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 03:16:14 PM

johac wrote:

In article <4v9qn058rv5ofl269er7gi7accvmokuh91@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

it was just this either. Bush's plan made no attempt to secure any
weapons depots. They sneered and laughed at the generals who told
them Rummy's plan had to few troops for the job.
The New York Times

How Much Is That Uzi in the Window?
June 17, 2004
By EVAN WRIGHT
Of all the blunders American military leaders have made
in Iraq, the least talked about is how they succeeded
in arming the insurgents.
To the American troops in Iraq being subjected to a daily
rain of fire from roadside bombs, mortars and rocket-propelled
grenades, it often seems that the insurgents have limitless
stocks of munitions. In fact, in the time I spent embedded
with a platoon there, I heard more than one marine joke that
the insurgents must have more bullets to spare than the Americans.
But it's no joke: some military officials told me that the
Iraqis have so many weapons that they are suspected of exporting
them over the Syrian border. And for this bounty, they can
thank the Pentagon. Of all the blunders American military
leaders have made in Iraq, one of the least talked about is
how they succeeded in arming the insurgents.
By the time of the coalition invasion, Iraq had one of the
largest conventional arms stockpiles in the world. According
to one American military estimate, this included three million
tons of bombs and bullets; millions of AK-47's and other rifles,
rocket launchers and mortar tubes; and thousands of more
sophisticated arms like ground-to-air missiles. Much of the
arsenal was stored in vast warehouse complexes, some of which
occupied several square miles. As war approached, Iraqi
commanders ordered these mountains of munitions to be dispersed
across the country in thousands of small caches.
The marines I was embedded with a forward reconnaissance unit
at the front of the initial invasion were stunned by the sheer
amounts of weaponry they saw as we raced across some 400 miles
to Baghdad. Along much of the route, Iraqi forces had dug holes
every couple of hundred yards in which they'd piled grenades,
mortars and other munitions. Village schools, health clinics
and other government buildings had been turned into ammunition
dumps. New rifles, sometimes still sealed in plastic bags,
littered the roadsides like trash along a blighted American
highway.
But under orders to reach Baghdad as quickly as possible,
the marines rarely had a chance to remove, destroy or even
mark the stockpiles. In one village, combat engineers (led
by local children whom they had bribed with bags of Skittles
candies) discovered an underground bunker crammed with dozens
of sophisticated air-to-ground missiles. Yet higher-ups in
the division insisted that there was no time to destroy them.
The marines moved on, leaving the missiles unguarded.
The job of removing ordnance was complicated by the fact
that many of the combat engineers in the invasion were not
adequately trained for the task. Munitions are not easy to
destroy. Bullets, bombs and rockets are designed to be
shock-resistant. As the combat engineers often discovered,
blowing up a stack of ammunition just scattered it, unexploded,
in all directions.
Ordnance disposal is best carried out by specialized
technicians; the entire First Marine Expeditionary Force
(which was responsible for roughly half the invasion) had
the services of only about 200. As one of those overworked
technicians told me the day we reached Baghdad, it would have
taken the experts attached to the First Division a year just
to clear the munitions they discovered in the city's eastern
suburbs.
And within 24 hours of the fall of the capital, the dangers
posed by all those unchecked arms became obvious. The marines
I was with occupied a warehouse in the Shiite slum now called
Sadr City, which quickly became the center of armed insurgence
in Baghdad. The moment it got dark, tracer fire lit up the sky,
as gun battles erupted across the city.
The marines were told not to worry; their commanders informed
them that the violence was a result of "red on red" engagements,
meaning that Iraqis were shooting at other Iraqis. When
American patrols entered Shiite neighborhoods starting the
next day, locals begged them to get rid of the arms. They
told us that semi-automatic rifles, nearly unobtainable during
Saddam Hussein's rule, could now be obtained for about the cost
of a pack of cigarettes. Heavier weapons were not much more
expensive. Unexploded artillery shells (which are now being
used to make the improvised roadside bombs) were free for the
taking, scattered about backyards and alleys.
Yet several Marine commanders I spoke with at the time felt the
nightly firefights were a positive development. "Mostly it's
Shiites doing a lot of dirty work, taking out fedayeen and
Sunni Baathists," one officer explained. A colonel told me
that the armed Shiites were acting through "a sort of agreement
with us to take out the bad guys." Some enlisted men even
told me that their battalion commander ordered them to distribute
thousands of AK-47's to Shiite militia members who pledged to
take on America's enemies.
Of course, American commanders long ago abandoned the wildly
naïve (or cynical) view that all those arms sloshing around
Iraq were somehow falling into friendly hands. But by the
time occupation authorities got serious about disarming Iraq,
many of the munitions that American forces bypassed in the
invasion had fallen into the hands of those bent on killing
Americans.
American forces have now destroyed some 300,000 tons of
munitions. Yet the troops on the ground still complain that
the old regime's supply depots remain woefully underguarded.
Nobody knows how long it will take to dispose of known
stockpiles. American military estimates range from one year
to 10. And then there are the unaccounted stashes, which,
based on Iraqi documents, are thought to contain hundreds
of surface-to-air missiles, tens of thousands of bombs and
half a million pounds of C-4 plastic explosive.
There simply aren't enough technical experts to do the job
in Iraq (not to mention Afghanistan). With the handover of
sovereignty fast approaching, concern is rising that today's
well-armed insurgency will become all-out civil war. American
authorities may not be able to eliminate simmering hatreds,
but it's still within their power to reduce the numbers of
bombs and bullets available to all sides.
Evan Wright is the author of "Generation Kill," about a
Marine platoon in combat in Iraq.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.

User: "johac"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	27 Oct 2004 12:51:17 AM

In article <417ebd92$0$167$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com>,
wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

johac wrote:

In article <4v9qn058rv5ofl269er7gi7accvmokuh91@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

<snip>
According to a number of reports, there were American troops in the area
right after the fall of Baghdad, but they had no orders to search for
explosives or secure the area:
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/300/nation/Embedded_NBC_reporter_says_no_
:.shtml
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.

User: "duke"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	25 Oct 2004 05:05:26 PM

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.

User: "Ike"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	25 Oct 2004 09:00:59 PM

"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:64uqn09frflf3191d0o0r0a1lp74j7lm3p@4ax.com...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Reason #1 that Bush made a mistake invading Iraq before deciding how to
neutralize the weapons. DUH!!
--
Chinese accordions suck.
.

User: "duke"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 05:02:06 AM

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 02:00:59 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:

"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:64uqn09frflf3191d0o0r0a1lp74j7lm3p@4ax.com...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Reason #1 that Bush made a mistake invading Iraq before deciding how to
neutralize the weapons. DUH!!

Rumors have it that the soldier put in charge of watching the weapons was a registered
democrat. Now what?
Haahaahaahaahaahaa.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.

User: "Ike"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 06:19:30 AM

"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s28sn0dcua3k0rti1vkkoah90rl1j37jmi@4ax.com...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 02:00:59 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>

wrote:

"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:64uqn09frflf3191d0o0r0a1lp74j7lm3p@4ax.com...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Reason #1 that Bush made a mistake invading Iraq before deciding how to
neutralize the weapons. DUH!!

Rumors have it that the soldier put in charge of watching the weapons was

a registered

democrat. Now what?

Haahaahaahaahaahaa.
duke

Are you saying the democrats failed to plan the invasion? It's not a joke
dumbass! This stuff's killing us. Who's responsible? Before we invaded
there should have been a plan in place. The military knew about the sheer
quantity of the armaments and should have had a plan to deal with it. Did
you even read the fucking article?
--
Chinese accordions suck.
.

User: "wbarwell"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 03:18:22 PM

Ike wrote:

"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s28sn0dcua3k0rti1vkkoah90rl1j37jmi@4ax.com...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 02:00:59 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>

wrote:

"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:64uqn09frflf3191d0o0r0a1lp74j7lm3p@4ax.com...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Reason #1 that Bush made a mistake invading Iraq before deciding how to
neutralize the weapons. DUH!!

Rumors have it that the soldier put in charge of watching the weapons was

a registered

democrat. Now what?

Haahaahaahaahaahaa.
duke

He didn't. I have rammed the article in his face at least three times now
and he refuses to read and think.
He's not just stupid, but he's intellectually dishonest.
he doesn't WANT to know the facts.
He just spews pathetic *****.
He's one of the army of assholes destroying this nation.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.

User: "duke"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 05:52:16 PM

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:18:22 -0400, wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

He didn't. I have rammed the article in his face at least three times now
and he refuses to read and think.

But I understand perfectly, barwell.

He's not just stupid, but he's intellectually dishonest.
he doesn't WANT to know the facts.
He just spews pathetic *****.

The NBC imbedded with the soldiers to arrive with the first troops at the weapons site
says they were already gone.

He's one of the army of assholes destroying this nation.

what bothers me is that you are the ***** voting for flipper, and you don't even see the
lies he's asking you to suck up on.

duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.

User: "MrPepper11"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	27 Oct 2004 01:33:25 AM

duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<u4ltn0pcrbbmeatas6cd7452qr40985o9o@4ax.com>...

The NBC imbedded with the soldiers to arrive with the first troops at the weapons site
says they were already gone.

The NBC embedded reporter AND the Army unit commander say NO search
was made for explosives at the site:
Embedded Reporter Saw No Explosives Search
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
October 26, 2004
NEW YORK (AP) -- An NBC News reporter embedded with a U.S. army unit
that seized an Iraqi installation three weeks into the war said
Tuesday that she saw no signs that the Americans searched for the
powerful explosives that are now missing from the site.
Reporter Lai Ling Jew, who was embedded with the Army's 101st
Airborne, Second Brigade, said her news team stayed at the Al-Qaqaa
base for about 24 hours.

"There wasn't a search," she told MSNBC, an NBC cable news channel.
"The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more
of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean
certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through
the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around.
"But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons,
nothing to keep looters away."
On Monday night, NBC reported that its embedded crew said U.S. troops
did discover significant stockpiles of bombs, but no sign of the
missing HMX and RDX explosives.
The NBC report came after the U.N. nuclear agency told the Security
Council on Monday about the disappearance of the 377 tons of high
explosives, mostly HMX and RDX, which can be used in the kind of car
bomb attacks that have targeted U.S. forces.
Iraq blamed "theft and looting ... due to lack of security."
The disappearance raised questions about why the United States didn't
do more to secure the Al-Qaqaa facility 30 miles south of Baghdad.
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said coalition forces were present in
the vicinity of the site both during and after major combat
operations, which ended on May 1, 2003. He said they searched the
facility but found none of the explosives in question or weapons of
mass destruction.
"The forces searched 32 bunkers and 87 other buildings at the
facility, but found no indicators of WMD," Whitman said Monday.
That raised the possibility that the explosives had disappeared before
U.S. soldiers could secure the site in the immediate invasion
aftermath.
However, Iraq's Ministry of Science and Technology told the IAEA the
explosives disappeared sometime after coalition forces took control of
Baghdad on April 9, 2003.
The NBC team accompanied the 101st Airborne at Al-Qaqaa the following
day -- on April 10, 2003.
Lai Ling told MSNBC that there was no talk among the 101st of securing
the area after they left.
She said the roads were cut off "so it would have been very difficult,
I believe, for the looters to get there."
=======================================================
No Check of Bunker, Unit Commander Says
By JIM DWYER and DAVID E. SANGER
New York Times
October 27, 2004
White House officials reasserted yesterday that 380 tons of powerful
explosives may have disappeared from a vast Iraqi military complex
while Saddam Hussein controlled Iraq, saying a brigade of American
soldiers did not find the explosives when they visited the complex on
April 10, 2003, the day after Baghdad fell.
But the unit's commander said in an interview yesterday that his
troops had not searched the site and had merely stopped there
overnight.
The commander, Col. Joseph Anderson, of the Second Brigade of the
Army's 101st Airborne Division, said he did not learn until this week
that the site, Al Qaqaa, was considered sensitive, or that
international inspectors had visited it before the war began in 2003
to inspect explosives that they had tagged during a decade of
monitoring.
Colonel Anderson, who is now the chief of staff for the division and
who spoke by telephone from Fort Campbell, Ky., said his troops had
been driving north toward Baghdad and had paused at Al Qaqaa to make
plans for their next push.
"We happened to stumble on it," he said. "I didn't know what the place
was supposed to be. We did not get involved in any of the bunkers. It
was not our mission. It was not our focus. We were just stopping there
on our way to Baghdad. The plan was to leave that very same day. The
plan was not to go in there and start searching. It looked like all
the other ammunition supply points we had seen already."
What had been, for the colonel and his troops, an unremarkable moment
during the sweep to Baghdad took on new significance this week, after
The New York Times, working with the CBS News program "60 Minutes,"
reported that the explosives at Al Qaqaa, mainly HMX and RDX, had
disappeared since the invasion.
Earlier this month, officials of the interim Iraqi government informed
the United Nations International Atomic Energy Agency that the
explosives disappeared sometime after the fall of Mr. Hussein on April
9, 2003. Al Qaqaa, which has been unguarded since the American
invasion, was looted in the spring of 2003, and looters were seen
there as recently as Sunday.
President Bush's aides told reporters that because the soldiers had
found no trace of the missing explosives on April 10, they could have
been removed before the invasion. They based their assertions on a
report broadcast by NBC News on Monday night that showed video images
of the 101st arriving at Al Qaqaa.
By yesterday afternoon Mr. Bush's aides had moderated their view,
saying it was a "mystery" when the explosives disappeared and that Mr.
Bush did not want to comment on the matter until the facts were known.
On Sunday, administration officials said that the Iraq Survey Group,
the C.I.A. taskforce that hunted for unconventional weapons, had been
ordered to look into the disappearance of the explosives. On Tuesday
night, CBS News reported that Charles A. Duelfer, the head of the
taskforce, denied receiving such an order.
At the Pentagon, a senior official, who asked not to be identified,
acknowledged that the timing of the disappearance remained uncertain.
"The bottom line is that there is still a lot that is not known," the
official said.
The official suggested that the material could have vanished while Mr.
Hussein was still in power, sometime between mid-March, when the
international inspectors left, and April 3, when members of the Army's
Third Infantry Division fought with Iraqis inside Al Qaqaa. At the
time, it was reported that those soldiers found a white powder that
was tentatively identified as explosives. The site was left unguarded,
the official said.
The 101st Airborne Division arrived April 10 and left the next day.
The next recorded visit by Americans came on May 27, when Task Force
75 inspected Al Qaqaa, but did not find the large quantities of
explosives that had been seen in mid-March by the international
inspectors. By then, Al Qaqaa had plainly been looted.
Colonel Anderson said he did not see any obvious signs of damage when
he arrived on April 10, but that his focus was strictly on finding a
secure place to collect his troops, who were driving and flying north
from Karbala.
"There was no sign of looting here," Colonel Anderson said. "Looting
was going on in Baghdad, and we were rushing on to Baghdad. We were
marshaling in."
A few days earlier, some soldiers from the division thought they had
discovered a cache of chemical weapons that turned out to be
pesticides. Several of them came down with rashes, and they had to go
through a decontamination procedure. Colonel Anderson said he wanted
to avoid a repeat of those problems, and because he had already seen
stockpiles of weapons in two dozen places, did not care to poke
through the stores at Al Qaqaa.
"I had given instructions, 'Don't mess around with those. It looks
like they are bunkers; we're not messing around with those things.
That's not what we're here for,' " he said. "I thought we would be
there for a few hours and move on. We ended up staying overnight."
=======================================================
.

User: "duke"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 05:49:55 PM

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:19:30 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:

Rumors have it that the soldier put in charge of watching the weapons was

a registered

democrat. Now what?
Haahaahaahaahaahaa.

Are you saying the democrats failed to plan the invasion?

Another junior idiot trying to play with the adults.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.

User: "Ike"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	27 Oct 2004 09:34:28 AM

"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s2ltn0llll2b2imd98b39rjn7gafu03mof@4ax.com...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:19:30 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>

wrote:

Rumors have it that the soldier put in charge of watching the weapons

was

a registered

democrat. Now what?
Haahaahaahaahaahaa.

Are you saying the democrats failed to plan the invasion?

Another junior idiot trying to play with the adults.

duke

Yes, I'm a junior idiot. Doe that make you right and me wrong? If so, why,
based on facts, please. facts that you actually have rather than just refer
to with a dismissive wave of the hand.
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
.

User: "Mike Painter"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	25 Oct 2004 07:57:36 PM

duke wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Yes, they went missing right after we got there and ignored the warnings
that the UN, who had been monitoring them, gave.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	25 Oct 2004 09:25:15 PM

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:4ihfd.34559
$QJ3.12533@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

duke wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Yes, they went missing right after we got there and ignored the warnings
that the UN, who had been monitoring them, gave.

Which is why it suddenly became news today.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "DJ Nozem"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 07:14:56 AM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:4ihfd.34559
$QJ3.12533@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

duke wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Yes, they went missing right after we got there and ignored the warnings
that the UN, who had been monitoring them, gave.

Which is why it suddenly became news today.

Umm... yes? It only became public this week. News breaks when, you
know, things become known.
--
We give meaning to each other
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	26 Oct 2004 11:50:11 AM

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:4ihfd.34559
$QJ3.12533@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

duke wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Yes, they went missing right after we got there and ignored the
warnings that the UN, who had been monitoring them, gave.

Which is why it suddenly became news today.

Umm... yes? It only became public this week. News breaks when, you
know, things become known.

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	27 Oct 2004 02:18:48 AM

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:50:11 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:4ihfd.34559
$QJ3.12533@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

duke wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Yes, they went missing right after we got there and ignored the
warnings that the UN, who had been monitoring them, gave.

Which is why it suddenly became news today.

Umm... yes? It only became public this week. News breaks when, you
know, things become known.

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.

Once again Fred Stone demonstrates his inability to grasp reality.
Who's running this botched war again?
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -1.6 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1106 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.

User: "DJ Nozem"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	28 Oct 2004 09:14:36 PM

"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message news:<btiun0dcvk3rvp2tabb9h83ub8scka1el3@4ax.com>...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:50:11 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:4ihfd.34559
$QJ3.12533@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

duke wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Yes, they went missing right after we got there and ignored the
warnings that the UN, who had been monitoring them, gave.

Which is why it suddenly became news today.

Umm... yes? It only became public this week. News breaks when, you
know, things become known.

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.

Once again Fred Stone demonstrates his inability to grasp reality.
Who's running this botched war again?

(DJ Nozem thinks: Why does google groups suck so hard?)
But at least now I know my message came through. Only I can't see it.
<piggybacking>
Fred: this is all I can see of your message right now. I don't know if
you posted more. I also don't see your point.
</pb>
Considering that ABC has now shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that the
explosives went missing after the war, in fact after the 101st arrived
at the spot, I offer the following (fair and balanced!) questions and
comments:
The republicans are offering varying accounts. Bush said that Kerry's
criticism of him on the issue is disrespectful of the troops in Iraq.
Guliani, out on the spot defending Bush, blames the US Army. Does Bush
have an interest in having these conflicting accounts in the public,
or has message discipline been completely lost?
Various uninformed pundits that I read online have commented that Iran
would have been interested in buying this stuff. Likewise, I
speculated that Syria might. If these states have sufficient
stockpiles and manufacturing capacity of their own, as, again, I
expect them to, then this may not be true. (This is the 'neutral'
question which both liberals and conservatives should be interested in
answering -- if you're out there on the republican wing, it doesn't
even require you to admit that the explosives went missing after the
war!)
The Al Qa Qaa facility, though huge on the ground, can be surveyed
pretty well from up in the air. 350 tons takes a lot of trucks to
transport. I, being generally skeptical of the Bush administration,
think that there probably is some evidence that shows large-scale
looting. They would not want to show it for quite obvious reasons,
i.e. it hurts them. Large-scale looting was rampant during and in the
weeks after the war, so it is not a stretch to think that they could
have neglected something like this.
If you're a dem winger given in to paranoia, here's the inverted Occam
explanation: there's apparently an Iraqi insurgent group claiming that
it stole the explosives, and was _aided by US intelligence_.
Curious and curiouser.....
--
We give meaning to each other
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	28 Oct 2004 09:54:14 PM

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410281814.299804@posting.google.com:

"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:<btiun0dcvk3rvp2tabb9h83ub8scka1el3@4ax.com>...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:50:11 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:4ihfd.34559 $QJ3.12533@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

duke wrote:

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:54 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net>
wrote:

Things are about to really 'heat up' for U.S. forces in Iraq.

they've been gone for 18 months.
duke

Yes, they went missing right after we got there and ignored the
warnings that the UN, who had been monitoring them, gave.

Which is why it suddenly became news today.

Umm... yes? It only became public this week. News breaks when, you
know, things become known.

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.

Once again Fred Stone demonstrates his inability to grasp reality.
Who's running this botched war again?

ABC is not credible. They blew any possibly bit of credibility on this
story it when they tried to hold it until this coming Friday.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "DJ Nozem"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	29 Oct 2004 07:17:35 AM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9590E90148593fstone69@207.69.189.191>...

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410281814.299804@posting.google.com:

"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:<btiun0dcvk3rvp2tabb9h83ub8scka1el3@4ax.com>...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:50:11 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

(...)

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.

(...)

Fred: this is all I can see of your message right now. I don't know if
you posted more. I also don't see your point.
Considering that ABC has now shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that the
explosives went missing after the war, in fact after the 101st arrived
at the spot, I offer the following (fair and balanced!) questions and
comments:

ABC is not credible. They blew any possibly bit of credibility on this
story it when they tried to hold it until this coming Friday.

Ummm.... I thought that was supposed to be CBS' 60 minutes....? You
sure you have the winger take on this straight? Or did it just change
overnight?
Anyway, in case the conservative media is keeping you from this: ABC
has _direct video evidence_. Do you suppose that they _doctored_ the
tapes that show the explosives with the IAEA seal at the facility?
(same way as the Bush campaign doctors its ads?) There's got to be a
limit to how much evidence even you can explain away by pointing to
(supposed) media bias....? Right??
--
We give meaning to each other
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	29 Oct 2004 09:45:23 AM

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410290417.50586e8b@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9590E90148593fstone69@207.69.189.191>...

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410281814.299804@posting.google.com:

"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:<btiun0dcvk3rvp2tabb9h83ub8scka1el3@4ax.com>...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:50:11 GMT, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

(...)

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.

(...)

Fred: this is all I can see of your message right now. I don't know
if you posted more. I also don't see your point.

Considering that ABC has now shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that
the explosives went missing after the war, in fact after the 101st
arrived at the spot, I offer the following (fair and balanced!)
questions and comments:

ABC is not credible. They blew any possibly bit of credibility on
this story it when they tried to hold it until this coming Friday.

Ummm.... I thought that was supposed to be CBS' 60 minutes....? You
sure you have the winger take on this straight? Or did it just change
overnight?

ABC has their own partisan scandal happening; didn't you get the memo?
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20041011-085221-6706r.htm

Anyway, in case the conservative media is keeping you from this: ABC
has _direct video evidence_. Do you suppose that they _doctored_ the
tapes that show the explosives with the IAEA seal at the facility?
(same way as the Bush campaign doctors its ads?) There's got to be a
limit to how much evidence even you can explain away by pointing to
(supposed) media bias....? Right??

Yes, they'll equivocate evidence and slant stories as far as they possibly
can. They're trying every desperate tactic to sway the election at the last
minute. The timing of the release of this story is all I really need to
know that.
http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200410282152.asp
There is no reason to believe that their "direct video evidence" is of HMX
or RDX rather than plain old dynamite or even gunpowder. Their own article
admits that at the very end. But you don't give a damn, do you? As long as
it's a political hit at Bush, you don't care if it's true or not.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "DJ Nozem"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	29 Oct 2004 06:07:29 PM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95916D6C6D6DFfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410290417.50586e8b@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9590E90148593fstone69@207.69.189.191>...

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410281814.299804@posting.google.com:

"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:<btiun0dcvk3rvp2tabb9h83ub8scka1el3@4ax.com>...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:50:11 GMT, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

(...)

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.

(...)

Fred: this is all I can see of your message right now. I don't know
if you posted more. I also don't see your point.

ABC is not credible. They blew any possibly bit of credibility on
this story it when they tried to hold it until this coming Friday.

Ummm.... I thought that was supposed to be CBS' 60 minutes....? You
sure you have the winger take on this straight? Or did it just change
overnight?

ABC has their own partisan scandal happening; didn't you get the memo?
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20041011-085221-6706r.htm

I did! Of course my opinion on it is radically different from yours,
but I wasn't talking about Rather's screwup with the Killian memos, in
case you thought that I was referring to that. When I suggested that
you got the winger take wrong I was talking about something more
specific:
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041027-123351-4664r.htm

Hmm, so you have _consciously decided_ to discount every piece of
information that comes up in the mainstream press and could damage
Bush. Interesting.

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200410282152.asp

OK, let's offer some comments on this wingnuttery:
Problem 1: ABC has already updated! But the old story's still online!
Anyway, the crucial issue is that these barrels were in a bunker
sealed by the IAEA (US troops broke the seal), that is the decisive
piece of information, not the label on them (that's an (unneeded)
collaborative piece of information). The non-updated story also reads
that way, in case yr paranoid, and this item (the seals) is
scrupulously avoided by the wingers at the national review.
Problem 2: We'll have to see how this discrepancy works out. Either
way, the most dangerous stuff is the HMX, of which plenty would be
left (the (also ABC!) story linked to says that on account of the HMX
there are no discrepancies), not the RDX, though that's nasty too.
What we're seeing in the video could therefore be... the HMX! Or it
could indeed be 3 tons (don't know how much 1 barrel of this stuff
would be). So this is not a problem with the video at all. The fact
that it's raised as a problem suggests an intention to confuse, or a
confused mind.
Problem 3: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa-imagery4.htm
(Before you share the good people over at gs.org among the biased
left-wing media, note that they were approvingly cited as an authority
on problem 1)
Problem 4: It probably was noticed, yes, and ignored. Was there no
traffic going on at all between april and may? Seems hard to assume.
Was there large scale looting going on? Everywhere. But we'll see how
the pentagon plays this next...
Problem 5: Blank assertion, not backed up, so not an established
problem.

There is no reason to believe that their "direct video evidence" is of HMX
or RDX rather than plain old dynamite or even gunpowder. Their own article
admits that at the very end. But you don't give a damn, do you? As long as
it's a political hit at Bush, you don't care if it's true or not.

No, I do care, being a member of the reality based community and all.
David Kay (you know, that left-wing hack who headed the search for WMD
and couldn't find any) called it game, set, and match yesterday on
CNN. He said that it was certainly an IAEA seal on the bunker, that
Iraqi's didn't use seals, that the material behind the seal would
certainly be the HMX/RDX as the IAEA sealed only dual use materials.
That was good enough for me.
I suppose that between january and april, programmed monkeys could
have gotten the explosives out through the air shafts, replaced it
with.. some other explosive that appears as white powder and... handed
it to the evil Martian Resistance, but at a certain point you have to
consider the evidence conclusive.
--
We give meaning to each other
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	29 Oct 2004 08:24:42 PM

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410291507.51f23b2e@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns95916D6C6D6DFfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410290417.50586e8b@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9590E90148593fstone69@207.69.189.191>...

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410281814.299804@posting.google.com:

"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****"
<eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in message
news:<btiun0dcvk3rvp2tabb9h83ub8scka1el3@4ax.com>...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:50:11 GMT, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

(DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410260414.6d9e746f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns958DE4193C2CEfstone69@207.69.189.191>...

(...)

Kerry's that far out of touch? Wow.

(...)

Fred: this is all I can see of your message right now. I don't
know if you posted more. I also don't see your point.

Considering that ABC has now shown beyond a shadow of a doubt
that the explosives went missing after the war, in fact after
the 101st arrived at the spot, I offer the following (fair and
balanced!) questions and comments:

ABC is not credible. They blew any possibly bit of credibility on
this story it when they tried to hold it until this coming Friday.

Ummm.... I thought that was supposed to be CBS' 60 minutes....? You
sure you have the winger take on this straight? Or did it just
change overnight?

ABC has their own partisan scandal happening; didn't you get the
memo?

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20041011-085221-6706r.htm

I did! Of course my opinion on it is radically different from yours,
but I wasn't talking about Rather's screwup with the Killian memos, in
case you thought that I was referring to that.

You obviously didn't read that link.

When I suggested that
you got the winger take wrong I was talking about something more
specific:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041027-123351-4664r.htm

<smirk> Yeah, did you bother to read the whole article? It doesn't do
your side much good.

Anyway, in case the conservative media is keeping you from this:
ABC has _direct video evidence_. Do you suppose that they
_doctored_ the tapes that show the explosives with the IAEA seal at
the facility? (same way as the Bush campaign doctors its ads?)
There's got to be a limit to how much evidence even you can explain
away by pointing to (supposed) media bias....? Right??

Hmm, so you have _consciously decided_ to discount every piece of
information that comes up in the mainstream press and could damage
Bush. Interesting.

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200410282152.asp

OK, let's offer some comments on this wingnuttery:

Problem 1: ABC has already updated! But the old story's still online!
Anyway, the crucial issue is that these barrels were in a bunker
sealed by the IAEA (US troops broke the seal), that is the decisive
piece of information, not the label on them (that's an (unneeded)
collaborative piece of information). The non-updated story also reads
that way, in case yr paranoid, and this item (the seals) is
scrupulously avoided by the wingers at the national review.

Problem 2: We'll have to see how this discrepancy works out. Either
way, the most dangerous stuff is the HMX, of which plenty would be
left (the (also ABC!) story linked to says that on account of the HMX
there are no discrepancies), not the RDX, though that's nasty too.
What we're seeing in the video could therefore be... the HMX! Or it
could indeed be 3 tons (don't know how much 1 barrel of this stuff
would be). So this is not a problem with the video at all. The fact
that it's raised as a problem suggests an intention to confuse, or a
confused mind.

Problem 3:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa-imagery4.htm

(Before you share the good people over at gs.org among the biased
left-wing media, note that they were approvingly cited as an authority
on problem 1)

Problem 4: It probably was noticed, yes, and ignored. Was there no
traffic going on at all between april and may? Seems hard to assume.
Was there large scale looting going on? Everywhere. But we'll see how
the pentagon plays this next...

Problem 5: Blank assertion, not backed up, so not an established
problem.

There is no reason to believe that their "direct video evidence" is
of HMX or RDX rather than plain old dynamite or even gunpowder. Their
own article admits that at the very end. But you don't give a damn,
do you? As long as it's a political hit at Bush, you don't care if
it's true or not.

Yes, he did use those words. But not about the specific stuff that was
being examined, only about the bunker being opened in the tape.
What was *in* that bunker? And what was actually being seen on the tape?
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/10/5-eyewitness-news-bunker-reader-
n-who.html

I suppose that between january and april, programmed monkeys could
have gotten the explosives out through the air shafts, replaced it
with.. some other explosive that appears as white powder and... handed
it to the evil Martian Resistance, but at a certain point you have to
consider the evidence conclusive.

There are still a hell of a lot of holes in the story; the "chain of
evidence" is about as smelly as the skunk I ran over yesterday.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "DJ Nozem"
Title: Re: OT: Vast explosives cache missing in Iraq, U.N. says	30 Oct 2004 08:19:59 AM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9591D9D38E480fstone69@207.69.189.191>...

nanne@quicknet.nl (DJ Nozem) wrote in
news:94fb8ae.0410291507.51f23b2e@posting.google.com: