| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
06 Sep 2006 06:20:58 AM |
| Object: |
OT: A collective punishment |
A collective punishment
Brian Whitaker
September 5, 2006 03:12 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2006/09/punishing_the_le=
banese.html
More than three weeks after the Israeli-Hizbullah ceasefire came into
effect, Israel is continuing its air and sea blockade of Lebanon -
apparently with support from the United States. The blockade is
reportedly costing Lebanon $50m a day and the Lebanese parliament has
embarked on an open-ended sit-in until it is lifted.
It is difficult to regard the Israeli action as anything other than
vindictiveness - a collective punishment of its northern neighbour.
Israel claims, of course, that its action is to stop Hizbullah
acquiring more weapons, but its argument doesn't stand up to much
scrutiny.
Don't force Middle Eastern artists into an identity straitjacket
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1865807,00.html
Few artists would wish to be defined by religion, location or heritage,
says Antonia Carver
Wednesday September 6, 2006
The Guardian
It was refreshing to read Philip Hensher's column on Islamic art (It's
time to engage with Islamic art on its own terms - not as a bridge
between east and west, August 28). His call for a more sophisticated
and deeper engagement with contemporary Middle Eastern culture is
laudable - and a rarity in a national newspaper.
Hensher was also right to applaud the V&A museum's "magical" new Jameel
gallery and the stunning, innovative display of the Ardabil carpet,
made in Iran in 1539. The opening of the gallery in July this year
highlighted, as Hensher writes, the "redemptive narrative" around
Islamic art: "The sort of Islamic culture that ends in twisted metal
and blood splattered across London facades is cancelled out by its
ancestral beauty."
Talk to Mullah Omar, if it saves British soldiers' lives
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1865732,00.html
Blair's legacy is a reckless adventure that's wreaked havoc the world
over
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1865714,00.html
The prime minister sealed his fate by signing up in full to a policy
now recognised by most Americans as a disaster
Jonathan Freedland in Washington
Wednesday September 6, 2006
The Guardian
The Americans can't quite believe it. Getting rid of Tony Blair? Are
you Brits crazy? Like Thatcher before him, Blair finds that the acclaim
abroad lingers even when there is derision at home. Maggie was a legend
in the States when she was shoved aside by the Tories, and the same is
true of Blair. When he does his farewell tour - part Sinatra, part
royal goodbye - he'd be a fool not to make a stop in America. Here the
ovations are guaranteed.
And yet here, he might also reflect, is where his troubles began. Next
week marks the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks which radically
altered the course of American foreign policy. Blair's great error, the
one that historians will identify as the cause of his decline and
eventual downfall, was to sign up for that new programme in full - even
when it led to disaster.
Hamid Karzai admits what our leaders can't: to achieve security in
Afghanistan, he must do a deal with the Taliban
Simon Jenkins
Wednesday September 6, 2006
The Guardian
This time there are no excuses. Every scrap of intelligence warned the
government not to fight a war against insurgency in south Afghanistan.
Ask the CIA, MI6, the former service chiefs Lord Inge and Lord Guthrie,
and Nato allies who thought the then defence secretary, John Reid, was
mad. Ask the Americans, who were losing more men than in Iraq and were
wisely withdrawing. Read the reports published throughout 2004/5 that
the Taliban were back in strength. These were veteran guerrillas, well
armed, who could count on the tacit support of tens of thousands of
tribal militias. What made Tony Blair think he could beat them with
just 4,000 soldiers? The Soviets lost with 120,000.
This expedition ranks among the stupidest in recent British history -
and there is serious competition. It was undertaken under the aegis of
Nato, designed for a different purpose and notorious for incoherent
decision. This meant British forces would not be masters of their fate
but at the mercy of a caravanserai of some 36 nations in Kabul, most
with no intention of getting hurt.
Deal with it
Francis Sedgemore
September 5, 2006 05:14 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/francis_sedgemore/2006/09/climate_chang=
e_is_happening_so.html
Environmental scientists all too often fail to get their message across
to the public in terms that will have a positive and lasting impact.
The language scientists and lobby groups use can be either opaque, with
decontextualised numbers flying all over the place, blinding an
insufficiently numerate audience with data they cannot make sense of,
or they appeal to the lowest common denominator, and use text and
images intended to scare their audiences into taking action on climate
change that is sometimes ill-defined and lacking in scientific
credibility.
Scientists are now beginning to address these problems, and the results
of their deliberations are filtering through to the work of public
outreach organisations such as the British Association for the
Advancement of Science (BAAS), whose annual Festival of Science is
currently underway in Norwich.
Protest songs and lullabies
Neil McIntosh
September 5, 2006 04:38 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/neil_mcintosh/2006/09/neils_post_not_on=
_greenham.html
I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a Greenham baby, but as a
child I was no stranger to protests. I'm sure there is a support group
of proper Greenham children, actually raised for a portion of their
lives in that iconic camp.
I like to imagine that, today, they take occasional weekends out from
their social enterprises to huddle around campfires, eat Beanfeast and
talk about their memories of the 80s. While, for most, the decade might
be about Dallas and shoulder pads and Duran Duran, theirs is more
likely to be nostalgic (or horrified) recitals of Whose Side Are You
On?
The battle of Mrs Graneggen's boobies
Rob Capriccioso
September 5, 2006 04:04 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/rob_capriccioso/2006/09/boobs_and_boys.=
html
Poor Mrs Graneggen. She apparently really screwed me up. Because,
although she was my favorite grade school teacher - and I feel like I
learned a lot from her - she happened to have a vagina. And a new study
indicates that I, the strapping lad that I am, should have learned more
from my teachers with penises.
Or at least that's one ridiculous premise that could be deduced as a
result of new research from Thomas Dee, an associate professor of
economics at Swarthmore College and visiting scholar at Stanford
University. A study he conducted, which recently appeared in Education
Next, a quarterly journal published by the Hoover Institution, found
that having a female teacher instead of a male teacher raised the
achievement of girls and lowered that of boys in science, social
studies and English.
Enjoy yourselves - we're toast anyway
David Boaz
September 5, 2006 02:40 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/david_boaz/2006/09/eat_drink_and_be_mer=
ry_for_tom.html
James Lovelock, the author of the "theory known as Gaia, which holds
that Earth acts like a living organism, a self-regulating system
balanced to allow life to flourish", has a new message for us: never
mind, it's too late, Gaia can't handle industrialisation. Earth will be
at least 10 degrees hotter in a decade or two. It's irreversible. "We
are poached," the Washington Post reports.
So we might as well enjoy ourselves. Burn those fossil fuels. Build
those McMansions. Eat those cheeseburgers. We're doomed anyway.
Religious extremists demand censorship (again)
Peter Tatchell
September 6, 2006 09:05 AM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2006/09/religious_extrem=
ists_demand_ce.html
Leaders of the Gay Police Association (GPA) have been receiving death
threats after their organisation published an advert exposing a 75%
increase in homophobic hate crimes perpetrated by religious extremists.
The death threats appear to be coming from faith fanatics. One of the
threats was sent to the chair of the GPA, Inspector Paul Cahill. It
said: "Be on notice that your days left on this earth are limited ...
Homosexuals everywhere will tremble at this powerful message and repent
of their perverted lives."
What did the Greenham protesters achieve?
Open Thread
September 5, 2006 01:37 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/open_thread/2006/09/what_did_the_greenh=
am_common_p.html
This week marks the 25th anniversary of the first women's peace camp on
Greenham Common. Three dozen women, some with children in tow, pitched
their tents on the common in protest at the government's decision to
allow nuclear missiles to be stored at an obscure RAF airbase nearby.
The women-only protesters staged "actions", from lying down in front of
trucks to threading paper doves through the base's perimeter fence; and
despite the media's frequent portrayal of the protesters as peacenik
femnists with a grudge against men, the demonstrations caught the
public imagination. When the first missiles arrived at the base, in
November 1983, some 50,000 women gathered on Greenham Common to join
the protest.
Keeping the books
Andrew Brown
September 5, 2006 11:50 AM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/andrew_brown/2006/09/google_books.html
Google has started to invade the space of libraries, by making
out-of-copyright books available to print, as well as to read online.
This looks like one of those uses of technology from which no one
benefits, except the manufacturers of printer ink. Google's great
strength is not the way that it displays information, but that it
allows you to find any in the first place.
Even if the only place you are searching is your own hard disk,
Google's disk search is inferior to Yahoo's because it does not give
such an informative display of the results. There are a number of other
projects that have digitised a great many worthwhile books, among them
Project Gutenberg and the Online Library of Liberty, a wonderful source
for works of philosophy.
Are we five years wiser?
Michel Rocard
September 5, 2006 09:00 AM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/michel_rocard/2006/09/are_we_five_years=
_wiser.html
As the fifth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks on the
United States by al-Qaida approaches, we should take the opportunity to
assess the results of the response by the US and the international
community. The attacks and the response to them have obviously brought
about a sea change in international relations, but it would be
difficult to argue that further atrocities have become less likely as a
result. Why are we no more secure than we were five years ago?
Within a week of the attacks, President George W Bush declared a "war
on terrorism." The metaphor of war has the singular advantage that it
clearly and strongly evokes the intensity of the counterattack that was
called for. Moreover, the metaphor of war constitutes an implicit
appeal to intense mobilisation, not only by a country that comes under
attack, but also by its friends and allies.
US elections: Bush fears the mid-term blues
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1367183.ece
The Republicans face their biggest challenge for 12 years, thanks to an
unpopular president and an equally unpopular war. But the Democrats
should not celebrate yet, warns Rupert Cornwell
Published: 06 September 2006
For an idea of the upheaval that may be about to overtake the US
Congress, just three words suffice: Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
This is no denigration of the member for California's 8th District in
the House of Representatives. She is as competent, ambitious and driven
a politician as they come. But nothing would so perfectly symbolise the
twilight of a conservative era as a House led by a woman with a near
perfect liberal voting record from the great city of San Francisco, a
place that lives in Republican mythology as Sodom and Gomorrah made
flesh.
Gene genius: Are scientists closing in on the holy grail?
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article1367543.ece
Scientists claim they are near to finding a therapy that could cure
Aids and cancer. So how real is this new medical dawn?
By Steve Connor
Published: 06 September 2006
Imagine a treatment for cancer, a cure for infectious diseases such as
Aids, or maybe an effective therapy for blindness or a lethal brain
disease. Now imagine that one breakthrough is responsible for all this
medical hope.
The breakthrough is RNA interference (RNAi), which some scientists
believe could be the biggest advance in healthcare since the
development of antibiotics. There is barely an area of medicine that
may not be touched by future advances in RNAi - a technique for
switching off genes selectively and precisely.
Nuclear D=E9j=E0 Vu: Now It's Iran That Does or Doesn't Intend to
Make Nuclear Weapons
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/06/world/middleeast/06nuke.html?ref=3Dmiddle=
east
By DAVID E. SANGER and WILLIAM J. BROAD
The Bush administration and the U.N. are in a parallel situation to
where they were four years ago this month, in the period leading up to
the war in Iraq.
Going Over to the Girlie Men
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/05/AR200609050=
1132.html
By Harold Meyerson
Wednesday, September 6, 2006; Page A15
SACRAMENTO -- It was just two years ago that California Gov. Arnold
Schwarzenegger, angered by his inability to get right-wing bills
through his state's Democratic-controlled legislature, termed that
body's leaders -- Assembly Speaker Fabian Nunez and Sen. Don Perata --
"girlie men." This political neologism went over particularly big with
a subgroup with which Arnold claimed a special rapport: Dumb Young
White Guys.
Deluded, perhaps, by the belief that the Census Bureau systematically
undercounted the DYWGs, the Governator then spent all of last year
campaigning against the Democrats and their institutional allies.
Attempting an end run around the legislature, he called a special
election so that voters could approve four partisan Republican
initiatives he supported, including a draconian spending limit and a
measure that would have curtailed unions' political involvement.
Somehow he overlooked that California is a heavily blue state, and a
place where independents are more likely to vote Democratic than
Republican. More bewildering still, he forgot that he had campaigned
for governor in the 2003 recall election as the guy who would end the
partisan bickering in Sacramento, as a Republican who would forge
common-sense solutions with the Democrats.
How We Dummies Succeed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/05/AR200609050=
1131.html
By Robert J. Samuelson
Wednesday, September 6, 2006; Page A15
If you're looking for the action in education, forget the Ivy League.
Talk instead to Anthony Zeiss, president of Central Piedmont Community
College in Charlotte. It has six campuses and 70,000 students taking
classes in everything from remedial English to computer networking.
With about 12 million students, the nation's 1,200 community colleges
help answer this riddle: Why do Americans do so badly on international
educational comparisons and yet support an advanced economy?
At this back-to-school moment, the riddle is worth pondering. Those
dismal comparisons aren't new. In 1970, tests of high school seniors in
seven industrial countries found that Americans ranked last in math and
science. Today's young Americans sometimes do well on these
international tests, but U.S. rankings drop as students get older.
Here's a 2003 study of 15-year-olds in 39 countries: In math, 23
countries did better; in science, 18. Or consider a 2003 study of
adults 16 to 65 in six advanced nations: Americans ranked fifth in both
literacy and math.
A date unlike any other
Ralf Dahrendorf
September 6, 2006 11:53 AM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ralf_dahrendorf/2006/09/post_339.html
Five years after the attacks on the Twin Towers in New York and the
Pentagon in Washington, 9/11 is no longer a mere date. It has entered
the history books as the beginning of something new, a new era perhaps,
but in any case a time of change. The terrorist bombings in Madrid,
London and elsewhere will also be remembered; but it is "9/11" that has
become the catchphrase, almost like "August 1914."
But was it really a war that started on September 11 2001? Not everyone
is happy about this American notion. During the heyday of Irish
terrorism in the UK, successive British governments went out of their
way not to concede to the IRA the notion that a war was being waged.
"War" would have meant acceptance of the terrorists as legitimate
enemies, in a sense as equals in a bloody contest for which there are
accepted rules of engagement.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A collective punishment |
06 Sep 2006 09:20:46 AM |
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On 6 Sep 2006 04:20:58 -0700, in alt.atheism , "maff"
<maff91@yahoo.com> in
<1157541658.221499.61770@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
A collective punishment
Brian Whitaker
September 5, 2006 03:12 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2006/09/punishing_the_lebanese.html
More than three weeks after the Israeli-Hizbullah ceasefire came into
effect, Israel is continuing its air and sea blockade of Lebanon -
apparently with support from the United States. The blockade is
reportedly costing Lebanon $50m a day and the Lebanese parliament has
embarked on an open-ended sit-in until it is lifted.
If Hezbollah is not going to disarm then Israel has the right to
prevent them from getting new arms. Blockading an enemy state is not
collective punishment. Britain worked hard to blockade Europe during
the Nepoleanic Wars and the U.S. blockaded Japan during WWII. If
Lebanon is going to avoid preventing members of their government from
attacking Israel then they have to expect Israel to respond to war
with war.
It is difficult to regard the Israeli action as anything other than
vindictiveness - a collective punishment of its northern neighbour.
It is difficult because you object to the idea of Jews being allowed
to defend themselves.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: A collective punishment |
06 Sep 2006 05:48:36 PM |
|
|
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:84mtf2dhcg36oapf7cphvf99jukld4mu92@4ax.com...
On 6 Sep 2006 04:20:58 -0700, in alt.atheism , "maff"
<maff91@yahoo.com> in
<1157541658.221499.61770@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
A collective punishment
Brian Whitaker
September 5, 2006 03:12 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2006/09/punishing_the_lebanese.html
More than three weeks after the Israeli-Hizbullah ceasefire came into
effect, Israel is continuing its air and sea blockade of Lebanon -
apparently with support from the United States. The blockade is
reportedly costing Lebanon $50m a day and the Lebanese parliament has
embarked on an open-ended sit-in until it is lifted.
If Hezbollah is not going to disarm then Israel has the right to
prevent them from getting new arms. Blockading an enemy state is not
collective punishment. Britain worked hard to blockade Europe during
the Nepoleanic Wars and the U.S. blockaded Japan during WWII. If
Lebanon is going to avoid preventing members of their government from
attacking Israel then they have to expect Israel to respond to war
with war.
It is difficult to regard the Israeli action as anything other than
vindictiveness - a collective punishment of its northern neighbour.
It is difficult because you object to the idea of Jews being allowed
to defend themselves.
Some people cannot get the little minds around the fact that collective
suffering does not mean collective punishment. Israel wasn't trying to
punish anyone, they were simply trying to prevent their citizens from being
murdered.
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A collective punishment |
07 Sep 2006 03:04:07 AM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 04:20:58 -0700, in alt.atheism , "maff"
<maff91@yahoo.com> in
<1157541658.221499.61770@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
A collective punishment
Brian Whitaker
September 5, 2006 03:12 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2006/09/punishing_the=
_lebanese.html
More than three weeks after the Israeli-Hizbullah ceasefire came into
effect, Israel is continuing its air and sea blockade of Lebanon -
apparently with support from the United States. The blockade is
reportedly costing Lebanon $50m a day and the Lebanese parliament has
embarked on an open-ended sit-in until it is lifted.
If Hezbollah is not going to disarm then Israel has the right to
prevent them from getting new arms. Blockading an enemy state is not
collective punishment. Britain worked hard to blockade Europe during
the Nepoleanic Wars and the U.S. blockaded Japan during WWII. If
Lebanon is going to avoid preventing members of their government from
attacking Israel then they have to expect Israel to respond to war
with war.
You tried that for 18 years and now for one month. How's Hezbollah
going to disarm just because you say so.
It is difficult to regard the Israeli action as anything other than
vindictiveness - a collective punishment of its northern neighbour.
It is difficult because you object to the idea of Jews being allowed
to defend themselves.
That's what you say. The fact is that Israel is the ony superpower in
the region. Haven't you learnt 'shock and awe' doesn't always work as
you thought, Stroop? You just create more enemies for the heck of it.
"The Jewish bandits are despicable cowards who hide behind women and
children." - SS-Gruppenf=FChrer J=FCrgen Stroop on the resistance in the
Warsaw Ghetto, 1943.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
=20
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A collective punishment |
07 Sep 2006 09:00:57 AM |
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On 7 Sep 2006 01:04:07 -0700, in alt.atheism , "maff"
<maff91@yahoo.com> in
<1157616247.062781.21430@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 04:20:58 -0700, in alt.atheism , "maff"
<maff91@yahoo.com> in
<1157541658.221499.61770@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
A collective punishment
Brian Whitaker
September 5, 2006 03:12 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2006/09/punishing_the_lebanese.html
More than three weeks after the Israeli-Hizbullah ceasefire came into
effect, Israel is continuing its air and sea blockade of Lebanon -
apparently with support from the United States. The blockade is
reportedly costing Lebanon $50m a day and the Lebanese parliament has
embarked on an open-ended sit-in until it is lifted.
If Hezbollah is not going to disarm then Israel has the right to
prevent them from getting new arms. Blockading an enemy state is not
collective punishment. Britain worked hard to blockade Europe during
the Nepoleanic Wars and the U.S. blockaded Japan during WWII. If
Lebanon is going to avoid preventing members of their government from
attacking Israel then they have to expect Israel to respond to war
with war.
You tried that for 18 years and now for one month. How's Hezbollah
going to disarm just because you say so.
I agree, they won't do it just because I (or anyone else) says so. It
will take things like military force to stop them from attacking
civilians. I am glad that we agree on the need for force to stop
Hezbollah.
It is difficult to regard the Israeli action as anything other than
vindictiveness - a collective punishment of its northern neighbour.
It is difficult because you object to the idea of Jews being allowed
to defend themselves.
That's what you say. The fact is that Israel is the ony superpower in
the region.
For some odd meaning of "superpower", sure.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: A collective punishment |
08 Sep 2006 02:20:55 AM |
|
|
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 7 Sep 2006 01:04:07 -0700, in alt.atheism , "maff"
<maff91@yahoo.com> in
<1157616247.062781.21430@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 04:20:58 -0700, in alt.atheism , "maff"
<maff91@yahoo.com> in
<1157541658.221499.61770@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
A collective punishment
Brian Whitaker
September 5, 2006 03:12 PM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2006/09/punishing_the_lebanese.html
More than three weeks after the Israeli-Hizbullah ceasefire came into
effect, Israel is continuing its air and sea blockade of Lebanon -
apparently with support from the United States. The blockade is
reportedly costing Lebanon $50m a day and the Lebanese parliament has
embarked on an open-ended sit-in until it is lifted.
If Hezbollah is not going to disarm then Israel has the right to
prevent them from getting new arms. Blockading an enemy state is not
collective punishment. Britain worked hard to blockade Europe during
the Nepoleanic Wars and the U.S. blockaded Japan during WWII. If
Lebanon is going to avoid preventing members of their government from
attacking Israel then they have to expect Israel to respond to war
with war.
You tried that for 18 years and now for one month. How's Hezbollah
going to disarm just because you say so.
I agree, they won't do it just because I (or anyone else) says so. It
will take things like military force to stop them from attacking
civilians. I am glad that we agree on the need for force to stop
Hezbollah.
So why aren't you donning your Jack boots for the Goose sttepping?
It is difficult to regard the Israeli action as anything other than
vindictiveness - a collective punishment of its northern neighbour.
It is difficult because you object to the idea of Jews being allowed
to defend themselves.
That's what you say. The fact is that Israel is the ony superpower in
the region.
For some odd meaning of "superpower", sure.
Are you stupid? I said in the region.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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