OT: A connection between wave/particle duality and movement through time?



 Religions > Atheism > OT: A connection between wave/particle duality and movement through time?

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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Uncle Buck"
Date: 08 Oct 2005 05:30:48 PM
Object: OT: A connection between wave/particle duality and movement through time?
This may not be a new realization, but I wanted to put it up
here and see where it leads.
Having been thinking yet again about multiple spatial and
temporal "dimensions", it occurs to me that if the multiverse theory
has merit, then to an observer outside of our spacetime continuum we
behave pretty much like electrons. As the universe expands, we expand
with it into diverse and alternate futures. From an outside
perspective, we would look like a "wave of probability" as we exist in
all probable states simultaneously. It isn't until the observer tried
to interact with the wave function that is "us" that it would
experience a single 3D slice of the puzzle. This is how electrons
behave - they are everywhere at once as a wave of probability, and yet
you can cause the wave function to collapse and pinpoint their
location.
This would also reveal something significant about how time
works, though I'm having difficulty coming up with the right words to
express it. The wave function of the electron is moving in its own
temporal space, a sort of 'time' that doesn't quite sync up with our
own. Perhaps you could say its time is flowing along with our own,
but at a 90 degree "angle" from our own in a higher spatial dimension
- it's not actually on our 3D "plane", so we're seeing it from the
"side" - an act of perception which renders into visibility all of its
states at once. From the electron's perspective were it sentient and
able to observe us, it would likely see us in the same way - as a sort
of fuzzy, non-descript "wave of probability," unable to realize that
what it's actually seeing is our entire bundle of timelines.
Meanwhile in its own world the infinite copies of this electron
wouldn't perceive itself as being fuzzy at all, but as occupying one
firm and definite spot on the shell. To it, _we_ would be the ones
who are nothing more than a probability wave. What might we see if we
could somehow isolate one single 3D occurence of that electron from
the fog that is its entire probability wave and study it "standing
still", so to speak? Well, I can tell you one thing, in my
visualization of the matter, I'd be willing to bet that an electron
doing the same thing to _us_ would be flabbergasted to see an orderly,
self-organized system (a person) pop out of the chaos upon isolation
of one of its 3D "slices" from the chaose which it previously had been
seeing as a fuzzy wave function.
This make any sense? :-? Just curious.
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
\~---0-0-0-O-o*O*o*O*o-O-0-0-0---~/
The final act of any free mind
is to believe its own lie.
/~---0-0-0-O-o*O*o*O*o-O-0-0-0---~\
.

User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"

Title: Re: A connection between wave/particle duality and movement through time? 08 Oct 2005 05:41:41 PM
"Uncle Buck" <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:i1hgk1p7tv447e7a59olgpt4la5k16qqit@4ax.com...

This may not be a new realization, but I wanted to put it up
here and see where it leads.

Having been thinking yet again about multiple spatial and
temporal "dimensions", it occurs to me that if the multiverse theory
has merit, then to an observer outside of our spacetime continuum we
behave pretty much like electrons. As the universe expands, we expand

<snip>

visualization of the matter, I'd be willing to bet that an electron
doing the same thing to _us_ would be flabbergasted to see an orderly,
self-organized system (a person) pop out of the chaos upon isolation
of one of its 3D "slices" from the chaose which it previously had been
seeing as a fuzzy wave function.

This make any sense?

No.
--
rb #2187
.

User: "Josef Balluch"

Title: Re: OT: A connection between wave/particle duality and movement through time? 08 Oct 2005 07:46:01 PM
In a message sent 'round the world, Uncle Buck poured fuel on the fire
with the following:

Having been thinking yet again about multiple spatial and
temporal "dimensions", it occurs to me that if the multiverse theory
has merit, then to an observer outside of our spacetime continuum we
behave pretty much like electrons.

If there is a multiverse then each universe would presumably have a set
of dimensions that are not shared with other universes. If so, then we
could not be observed from "outside".

As the universe expands, we expand
with it into diverse and alternate futures.

There is no indication that the expansion of the universe is associated
with "diverse and alternate futures". Methinks perhaps you are
conflating multiverse with "Many Worlds".

From an outside
perspective, ...

We don't know that there is an "outside perspective".

... we would look like a "wave of probability" as we exist in
all probable states simultaneously.

We do not see "waves of probability", and we have no indication that
anything else can "see" them.
....

This would also reveal something significant about how time
works, though I'm having difficulty coming up with the right words to
express it. The wave function of the electron is moving in its own
temporal space, a sort of 'time' that doesn't quite sync up with our
own.

A wave function is a mathematical description, and there is no
indication that it exists in any physical sense. Hence, it cannot be
said to "move".
....
You do not need to invoke quantum mechanical phenomena in order to gain
a "higher" perspective. You only need to operate from a higher
dimension, much like we would do when we observe Flatland.
Wave particle duality follows from Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle,
and the Uncertainty Principle can be seen as expressing a fundamental
limitation on the availability of information. Thus it would be unlikely
that wave particle duality could be used to do what you seek, and
provide you with MORE information about reality.
Regards,
Josef
If you know how fast you are going then you are lost.
-- Heisenberg
.

User: "Chris H. Fleming"

Title: Re: OT: A connection between wave/particle duality and movement through time? 09 Oct 2005 08:27:55 PM
Uncle Buck wrote:

This may not be a new realization, but I wanted to put it up
here and see where it leads.

Having been thinking yet again about multiple spatial and
temporal "dimensions", it occurs to me that if the multiverse theory
has merit, then to an observer outside of our spacetime continuum we
behave pretty much like electrons. As the universe expands, we expand
with it into diverse and alternate futures. From an outside
perspective, we would look like a "wave of probability" as we exist in
all probable states simultaneously. It isn't until the observer tried
to interact with the wave function that is "us" that it would
experience a single 3D slice of the puzzle. This is how electrons
behave - they are everywhere at once as a wave of probability, and yet
you can cause the wave function to collapse and pinpoint their
location.

This would also reveal something significant about how time
works, though I'm having difficulty coming up with the right words to
express it. The wave function of the electron is moving in its own
temporal space, a sort of 'time' that doesn't quite sync up with our
own. Perhaps you could say its time is flowing along with our own,
but at a 90 degree "angle" from our own in a higher spatial dimension
- it's not actually on our 3D "plane", so we're seeing it from the
"side" - an act of perception which renders into visibility all of its
states at once. From the electron's perspective were it sentient and
able to observe us, it would likely see us in the same way - as a sort
of fuzzy, non-descript "wave of probability," unable to realize that
what it's actually seeing is our entire bundle of timelines.
Meanwhile in its own world the infinite copies of this electron
wouldn't perceive itself as being fuzzy at all, but as occupying one
firm and definite spot on the shell. To it, _we_ would be the ones
who are nothing more than a probability wave. What might we see if we
could somehow isolate one single 3D occurence of that electron from
the fog that is its entire probability wave and study it "standing
still", so to speak? Well, I can tell you one thing, in my
visualization of the matter, I'd be willing to bet that an electron
doing the same thing to _us_ would be flabbergasted to see an orderly,
self-organized system (a person) pop out of the chaos upon isolation
of one of its 3D "slices" from the chaose which it previously had been
seeing as a fuzzy wave function.

This make any sense? :-? Just curious.
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
\~---0-0-0-O-o*O*o*O*o-O-0-0-0---~/
The final act of any free mind
is to believe its own lie.
/~---0-0-0-O-o*O*o*O*o-O-0-0-0---~\

Don't waste time with the unproven interpretations of QM. Learn
decoherence:
http://www.decoherence.de/
.


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