| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
24 Jan 2005 08:47:36 AM |
| Object: |
OT: A fantasy of freedom |
A fantasy of freedom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1396962,00.html
If Bush wanted to tackle tyranny, he could start with regimes under US
control. But liberty clearly has limits, says Gary Younge.
Monday January 24, 2005
The Guardian
There is one tiny corner of Cuba that will forever America be. It is a
place where innocent people are held without charge for years, beyond
international law, human decency and the mythical glow of Lady
Liberty's torch. It is a place where torture is common, beating is
ritual and humiliation is routine. They call it Guant=E1namo Bay.
Last week the new United States secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice,
listed Cuba, among others, as "an outpost of tyranny". A few days later
President Bush started his second term with a pledge to unleash "the
force of freedom" on the entire world. "The best hope for peace in our
world is the expansion of freedom in all the world," he said
Gary Younge
http://tinyurl.com/25fkh
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59db27ad3617e2e3
Condoleezza Rice
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/c04d859b9b0db70b
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A fantasy of freedom |
26 Jan 2005 03:16:36 AM |
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On 24 Jan 2005 00:47:36 -0800, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
A fantasy of freedom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1396962,00.html
Comment
A fantasy of freedom
If Bush wanted to tackle tyranny, he could start with regimes under US
control. But liberty clearly has limits, says Gary Younge.
Monday January 24, 2005
The Guardian
There is one tiny corner of Cuba that will forever America be. It is a
place where innocent people are held without charge for years, beyond
international law, human decency and the mythical glow of Lady
Liberty's torch. It is a place where torture is common, beating is
ritual and humiliation is routine. They call it Guantánamo Bay.
Last week the new United States secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice,
listed Cuba, among others, as "an outpost of tyranny". A few days
later President Bush started his second term with a pledge to unleash
"the force of freedom" on the entire world. "The best hope for peace
in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world," he said
You would think that if the Americans are truly interested in
expanding freedom and ending tyranny in Cuba, let alone the rest of
the world, Guantánamo Bay would be as good a place to start as any.
But the captives in Guantánamo should not ask for the keys to their
leg irons any time soon. Ms Rice was not referring to the outpost of
tyranny that her boss created in Cuba, but the rest of the Caribbean
island, which lives in a stable mixture of the imperfect and the
impressive.
In short, while the US could liberate a place where there are flagrant
human rights abuses and over which they have total control, it would
rather topple a sovereign state, which poses no threat, through
diplomatic and economic - and possibly military - warfare that is
already causing chaos and hardship.
Welcome to Bush's foreign policy strategy for the second term. His aim
is not to realign the values at Guantánamo so that they are more in
line with those championed by the rest of the world. It is to try and
realign the rest of the world so that it is more in keeping with the
values that govern Guantánamo, where human rights and legal norms are
subordinated to America's perceived interests.
Under this philosophy, the Bush administration understands the words
"tyranny" and "freedom" in much the same way as it understands
international law. They mean whatever the White House wants them to
mean. Bush is happy to support democracy when democracy supports
America, just as he is happy to dispense with it when it does not.
Likewise, when tyranny is inconvenient, he will excoriate it; when it
is expedient, he will excuse it.
Take Uzbekistan, one of the most repressive regimes in central Asia.
In April 2002, a special UN rapporteur concluded that torture in the
country was "systematic" and "pervasive and persistent... throughout
the investigation process". In the same year, Muzafar Avazov, an
opposition leader, was boiled alive for refusing to abandon his
religious convictions and attempting to practise religious rites in
prison. In 2003, Bush granted a waiver to Uzbekistan when its failure
to improve its human rights record should have led to its aid being
slashed. In February 2004 the US secretary of defence, Donald
Rumsfeld, visited the country's dictator, Islam Karimov, and said:
"The relationship [between our countries] is strong and growing
stronger. We look forward to strengthening our political and economic
relations."
Yet the US continues to shower the country with aid, docking a mere
$18m last year (around 20% of the total) after expressing its
"disappointment" that Mr Karimov had not made greater strides towards
democracy. Pan down the shopping list of tyrannical states in Ms
Rice's in-tray (Iran, Burma, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Belarus and Cuba)
and you will find no mention of Uzbekistan. Why? Because Uzbekistan,
with an estimated 10,000 political prisoners, hosts a US military base
that offers easy access to Afghanistan and the rest of the region.
So for every tenet that Mr Bush claimed last week to hold dear, it was
possible to pick out a country or place he is bankrolling or
controlling that is in flagrant violation, and where he could improve
conditions immediately if he wished. The point here is not that the US
should intervene in more places, but that it should intervene
consistently and honestly or not at all.
Bush's inauguration speech was packed with truisms, axioms, platitudes
and principles that appear reasonable at first glance. The trouble is
they are contradicted by the reality he has created and continues to
support.
As he delivered his address, you could almost whisper the caveats.
"America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains
[apart from in Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay], or that women welcome
humiliation and servitude [apart from in Saudi Arabia] or that any
human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies [apart from
Uzbekistan and Israel]."
Such hypocrisy is not new. When Mr Bush said "Our goal instead is to
help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom and make
their own way", nobody imagined he was referring to the Bolivian
peasants fighting oil price hikes and globalisation or the landless
Venezuelans taking over farms.
The agenda for a second Bush term represents not a change in direction
but an acceleration of the colossal and murderous folly that he, and
most of his predecessors, have pursued.
The damage that this selective notion of liberty inflicts on the rest
of the world should by now be pretty clear. According to the
independent website Iraqbodycount.net, reported civilian deaths in
Iraq have already reached between 15,365 and 17,582 since the war
started, while the recent study for the Lancet estimated the death
toll at 100,000 at least, and probably higher; meanwhile, the number
is growing remorselessly. Next weekend's elections in Iraq - which
take place in the midst of a war against foreign occupiers with most
candidates too scared to campaign, the location of polling sites kept
secret until the last minute and key areas unable to participate -
have become not an example of democracy but an embarrassment to the
very idea of democracy.
Meanwhile, a global poll for the BBC last week showed the US more
isolated than ever, with people in 18 out of 21 countries saying that
they expect a second Bush term to have a negative impact on peace and
security.
What is less clear is whether most Americans understand that this
isolation leaves them more vulnerable to attack. Ms Rice last week
promised "a conversation, not a monologue" with the rest of the world.
But as the situation in Iraq shows, conversations that start with
"D'you want a piece of this?" rarely end well for anybody.
Both Osama bin Laden and the Taliban have shown that the tyrants the
US supports today can easily turn against it tomorrow while fostering
resentment among their victims. Yet the idea that the US is a
civilising force endowed with benevolent intentions is still as
prevalent within the US as it is rejected outside it.
Indeed, Tony Blair seems to be the only foreign leader who still holds
to the mixture of wishful thinking, wilful ignorance and warped logic
behind the idea that Bush is leading humanitarian interventions at the
barrel of a gun.
When questioned about the prospects for Bush's second term, the
British prime minister was upbeat. "Evolution comes with experience,"
he said. The fact that Bush does not believe in evolution has long
been known. Only now are we discovering how little Blair learns from
experience.
g.younge@guardian.co.uk
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A fantasy of freedom |
24 Jan 2005 06:43:05 PM |
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maff bolted into alt.atheism, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
A fantasy of freedom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1396962,00.html
If Bush wanted to tackle tyranny, he could start with regimes under US
control. But liberty clearly has limits, says Gary Younge.
Monday January 24, 2005
The Guardian
There is one tiny corner of Cuba that will forever America be. It is a
place where innocent people are held without charge for years, beyond
international law, human decency and the mythical glow of Lady
Liberty's torch. It is a place where torture is common, beating is
ritual and humiliation is routine. They call it Guantánamo Bay.
Last week the new United States secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice,
listed Cuba, among others, as "an outpost of tyranny". A few days later
President Bush started his second term with a pledge to unleash "the
force of freedom"
Sounds a bit like rape to me.
on the entire world. "The best hope for peace in our
world is the expansion of freedom in all the world," he said
Gary Younge
http://tinyurl.com/25fkh
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59db27ad3617e2e3
Condoleezza Rice
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/c04d859b9b0db70b
--
Zag
I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A fantasy of freedom |
26 Jan 2005 03:17:21 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:43:05 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
maff bolted into alt.atheism, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
A fantasy of freedom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1396962,00.html
If Bush wanted to tackle tyranny, he could start with regimes under US
control. But liberty clearly has limits, says Gary Younge.
Monday January 24, 2005
The Guardian
There is one tiny corner of Cuba that will forever America be. It is a
place where innocent people are held without charge for years, beyond
international law, human decency and the mythical glow of Lady
Liberty's torch. It is a place where torture is common, beating is
ritual and humiliation is routine. They call it Guantánamo Bay.
Last week the new United States secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice,
listed Cuba, among others, as "an outpost of tyranny". A few days later
President Bush started his second term with a pledge to unleash "the
force of freedom"
Sounds a bit like rape to me.
Gang rape.
But Bush is a good Christian!
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A fantasy of freedom |
24 Jan 2005 07:52:24 PM |
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Politicians say what the public wants to hear and Bush is a consummate
politician!
--
Bill
"Zaghadka" <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5dgav0hj2h1auums6ofuhkppsgo8o4kbb4@4ax.com...
maff bolted into alt.atheism, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
A fantasy of freedom
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1396962,00.html
If Bush wanted to tackle tyranny, he could start with regimes under US
control. But liberty clearly has limits, says Gary Younge.
Monday January 24, 2005
The Guardian
There is one tiny corner of Cuba that will forever America be. It is a
place where innocent people are held without charge for years, beyond
international law, human decency and the mythical glow of Lady
Liberty's torch. It is a place where torture is common, beating is
ritual and humiliation is routine. They call it Guantánamo Bay.
Last week the new United States secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice,
listed Cuba, among others, as "an outpost of tyranny". A few days later
President Bush started his second term with a pledge to unleash "the
force of freedom"
Sounds a bit like rape to me.
on the entire world. "The best hope for peace in our
world is the expansion of freedom in all the world," he said
Gary Younge
http://tinyurl.com/25fkh
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59db27ad3617e2e3
Condoleezza Rice
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/c04d859b9b0db70b
--
Zag
I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A fantasy of freedom |
24 Jan 2005 07:11:51 PM |
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on 24 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, Zaghadka dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
<piggybacking>
maff bolted into alt.atheism, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Last week the new United States secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice,
listed Cuba, among others, as "an outpost of tyranny". A few days later
President Bush started his second term with a pledge to unleash "the
force of freedom"
Sounds a bit like rape to me.
on the entire world. "The best hope for peace in our
world is the expansion of freedom in all the world," he said
So freedom is a force, thus peace = war. I get it now.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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