| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
11 Apr 2005 09:05:13 PM |
| Object: |
OT: A West Too Wild |
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
Booting the Bench
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42691-2005Apr10.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1791.6093
There's new ferocity in talk of firing activist judges.
By Ruth Marcus, Page A19
Railing against activist judges is nothing new in American politics.
The nation's judicial wars erupt infrequently but at times with painful
intensity, often brought on by the stress of a particularly divisive
case. Indeed, it's not surprising that the current outbreak of
judge-bashing is particularly virulent: With long-standing grievances
(abortion, school prayer) still simmering, the courts have been busying
themselves, as critics see it, with promoting same-sex marriage and
censoring the Ten Commandments. Meantime, a showdown over filibusters
is looming, and a Supreme Court nomination looks to be in the offing
after a lengthy stretch without a resignation. In that context, the
dispute over Terri Schiavo was the inevitable tipping point.
The Road to Riches
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/5ba95f4634dec9cd
and thread
The Road to Riches
http://tinyurl.com/55nzo
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59c28cd6dfe6f60f
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
11 Apr 2005 09:41:00 PM |
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maff wrote:
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders.
Our governmnt has failed in that obligation, so the citizens are taking
up the burden. We have provisions for legal entry into the United
States. Every illegal should be shot on sight, be they man, women or
child. And we really have to change the law, so that children of
illegals born in the U.S. do not become citizens legally.
Bob Kolker
.
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 12:34:54 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3c097fF6k19d9U1@individual.net...
maff wrote:
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders
....from the terrifying threat of Mexicans looking for honest work so they
can feed their families! Ohhh, how horrible!
.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 12:51:39 PM |
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Peacenik wrote:
...from the terrifying threat of Mexicans looking for honest work so they
can feed their families! Ohhh, how horrible!
How about Islamic terrorists infiltrating from the south? Or diseased
illegals comming in.
Many of the Mexicans are poor sods suffering from anti-biotic resistant
TB. Is that what you want in this country. By having a rational legal
immigration policy and influx only through properly policed ports of
entry we can check for both terrorists and diseased individuals. This
way we can have -legal- and -healthy- gast-arbeiten to come pick our
lettuce for us. My great great grandparents came in -legally- through
Ellis Island. They were checked for lice, cooties and consumption before
being admited.
We can also cut down on the demand for foreign stoop labor by
eliminating welfare and the minimum wage. Without minimum wages laws
propping up the price of labor over the supply-demand value we would
have many more home born folks to work the fields. Given a choice
between starvation and stooping down, many would stoop down.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Josh Hayes" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 08:38:34 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:3c1uivF6cunuiU1@individual.net:
We can also cut down on the demand for foreign stoop labor by
eliminating welfare and the minimum wage. Without minimum wages laws
propping up the price of labor over the supply-demand value we would
have many more home born folks to work the fields. Given a choice
between starvation and stooping down, many would stoop down.
<Lehrer>
Should Americans pick crops? George says no,
'Cuz no one but a Mexican would stoop so low
And after all, even in Egypt the Pharaohs
had to import (bum bum bum bum) Hebrew braceros..."
</Lehrer>
More seriously, I doubt this is true. Given a choice between tending my
own peasant garden and breaking my back in pesticide-laden fields, I'll
grow my own, thanks.
-JAH
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
13 Apr 2005 01:20:44 AM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3c1uivF6cunuiU1@individual.net...
Peacenik wrote:
...from the terrifying threat of Mexicans looking for honest work so
they
can feed their families! Ohhh, how horrible!
How about Islamic terrorists infiltrating from the south?
Yeah, how about them? The Minutemen are out there rounding up Mexicans, not
Muslims.
Or diseased
illegals comming in.
Now I understand what you think about foreigners. They're all "diseased" to
you.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
11 Apr 2005 11:50:46 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in news:3c097fF6k19d9U1
@individual.net:
maff wrote:
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders.
Our governmnt has failed in that obligation, so the citizens are taking
up the burden. We have provisions for legal entry into the United
States. Every illegal should be shot on sight, be they man, women or
child. And we really have to change the law, so that children of
illegals born in the U.S. do not become citizens legally.
The main reason that you have so much trouble with your border is that
you moved it an awful long way into Mexico in the 19th century. If you
withdrew to your own borders the problem probably wouldn't go away, but
it would certainly ameliorate.
(Just a little historical perspective on the whole "crisis")
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 02:43:06 AM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in news:3c097fF6k19d9U1
@individual.net:
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders.
Our governmnt has failed in that obligation, so the citizens are taking
up the burden. We have provisions for legal entry into the United
States. Every illegal should be shot on sight, be they man, women or
child. And we really have to change the law, so that children of
illegals born in the U.S. do not become citizens legally.
The main reason that you have so much trouble with your border is that
you moved it an awful long way into Mexico in the 19th century. If you
withdrew to your own borders the problem probably wouldn't go away, but
it would certainly ameliorate.
(Just a little historical perspective on the whole "crisis")
No, that would do nothing at all about the problem. Most of the folks
coming over in massive numbers (many of them just a few miles from
where I live) are long distance travellers.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 02:50:30 AM |
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J Forbes wrote:
No, that would do nothing at all about the problem. Most of the folks
coming over in massive numbers (many of them just a few miles from
where I live) are long distance travellers.
Unfortunately some are from the Middle East. I cannot comprehend how the
Bush Administration claims it is fighting Islamic Terrorism and leaving
our southron border wide open to Moslmen Terrorists.
The Mexicans, I consider a nuisance, but the terroists are a mortal
threat. I would much rather have six million illegal asian immigrants
than six million illegal hispanic immigrants. But most of all I would
prefer no illegal immigrants and only legals comming through a proper
well policed border.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "thissteve" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 03:19:43 AM |
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Funny, I was about to chastize you all for failing to realize that Bob
was kidding. Wow, my bad.
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 04:19:00 AM |
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On 11 Apr 2005 20:19:43 -0700,
thissteve <thissteve@yahoo.com> wrote:
Funny, I was about to chastize you all for failing to realize that Bob
was kidding. Wow, my bad.
Bob likes to take extreme positions. He is basically a troll that sometimes
decides he is seriously interested in a subject, and behaves himself.
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 12:38:23 PM |
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thissteve wrote:
Funny, I was about to chastize you all for failing to realize that Bob
was kidding. Wow, my bad.
I do NOT kid about things like this. I am deadly serious.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 02:26:29 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:38:23 -0400,
Robert J. Kolker <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
thissteve wrote:
Funny, I was about to chastize you all for failing to realize that Bob
was kidding. Wow, my bad.
I do NOT kid about things like this. I am deadly serious.
Bob, I know you're a troll. You've done it quite frequently on other
newsgroups. You're like the little boy that cried wolf.
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 02:57:15 PM |
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AC wrote:
Bob, I know you're a troll. You've done it quite frequently on other
newsgroups. You're like the little boy that cried wolf.
Wrong. I am like the little boy who told the Emporer he was bareass in
the middle of the street. Being unpleasant is NOT the same as being a
troll. I state the reasons I have for holding the positions I do.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 03:59:30 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:57:15 -0400,
Robert J. Kolker <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
AC wrote:
Bob, I know you're a troll. You've done it quite frequently on other
newsgroups. You're like the little boy that cried wolf.
Wrong. I am like the little boy who told the Emporer he was bareass in
the middle of the street. Being unpleasant is NOT the same as being a
troll. I state the reasons I have for holding the positions I do.
Bob, you've been busted trolling so many times now that I can't imagine why
anyone would take you seriously, particularly when you are holding an
extreme position like this. Sorry, you did this one to yourself. If you
wanted to be taken seriously, you shouldn't have been such a trolling
***** in the past.
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
13 Apr 2005 12:36:39 AM |
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AC wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:57:15 -0400,
Robert J. Kolker <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
AC wrote:
Bob, I know you're a troll. You've done it quite frequently on
other newsgroups. You're like the little boy that cried wolf.
Wrong. I am like the little boy who told the Emporer he was bareass
in the middle of the street. Being unpleasant is NOT the same as
being a troll. I state the reasons I have for holding the positions
I do.
Bob, you've been busted trolling so many times now that I can't
imagine why anyone would take you seriously, particularly when you
are holding an extreme position like this. Sorry, you did this one
to yourself. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you shouldn't have
been such a trolling ***** in the past.
Sounds like he and Earl would be good friends.
Wow, what a concert, Earl with a friend.
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| User: "r norman" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 12:57:13 PM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:50:30 -0400, "Robert J. Kolker"
<nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
J Forbes wrote:
No, that would do nothing at all about the problem. Most of the folks
coming over in massive numbers (many of them just a few miles from
where I live) are long distance travellers.
Unfortunately some are from the Middle East. I cannot comprehend how the
Bush Administration claims it is fighting Islamic Terrorism and leaving
our southron border wide open to Moslmen Terrorists.
The Mexicans, I consider a nuisance, but the terroists are a mortal
threat. I would much rather have six million illegal asian immigrants
than six million illegal hispanic immigrants. But most of all I would
prefer no illegal immigrants and only legals comming through a proper
well policed border.
An interesting leap: "some are from the Middle East" to "Moslmen
[sic] Terrorists".
Then there is "I would much rather have six million illegal asian
immigrants" rather oblivious to the fact that the Middle East is part
of Asia..
Do you have to work at it to come up with stuff like this?
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 01:53:39 PM |
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r norman wrote:
Then there is "I would much rather have six million illegal asian
immigrants" rather oblivious to the fact that the Middle East is part
of Asia..
I am talking about japs, chinks and gooks.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 02:27:21 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:53:39 -0400,
Robert J. Kolker <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
r norman wrote:
Then there is "I would much rather have six million illegal asian
immigrants" rather oblivious to the fact that the Middle East is part
of Asia..
I am talking about japs, chinks and gooks.
Why do you troll, Bob? Do you not get satisfaction in your home life?
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 03:53:49 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
J Forbes wrote:
No, that would do nothing at all about the problem. Most of the folks
coming over in massive numbers (many of them just a few miles from
where I live) are long distance travellers.
Unfortunately some are from the Middle East. I cannot comprehend how the
Bush Administration claims it is fighting Islamic Terrorism and leaving
our southron border wide open to Moslmen Terrorists.
The Mexicans, I consider a nuisance, but the terroists are a mortal
threat. I would much rather have six million illegal asian immigrants
than six million illegal hispanic immigrants. But most of all I would
prefer no illegal immigrants and only legals comming through a proper
well policed border.
I'd much rather live in a free country and put up with the slight risk
of terrorism. The Border Patrol helicopters flying over my house
don't make me feel secure, they just annoy me.
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 01:15:26 AM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:50:46 +0000 (GMT),
Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:
"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in news:3c097fF6k19d9U1
@individual.net:
maff wrote:
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders.
Our governmnt has failed in that obligation, so the citizens are taking
up the burden. We have provisions for legal entry into the United
States. Every illegal should be shot on sight, be they man, women or
child. And we really have to change the law, so that children of
illegals born in the U.S. do not become citizens legally.
The main reason that you have so much trouble with your border is that
you moved it an awful long way into Mexico in the 19th century. If you
withdrew to your own borders the problem probably wouldn't go away, but
it would certainly ameliorate.
(Just a little historical perspective on the whole "crisis")
Ah yes, that great age of American imperialism when Manifest
Destiny-advocates went around sparking wars to steal land from an unstable
nation to the south.
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
15 Apr 2005 01:55:23 PM |
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On 12 Apr 2005 01:15:26 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:50:46 +0000 (GMT),
Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:
"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in news:3c097fF6k19d9U1
@individual.net:
maff wrote:
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders.
Our governmnt has failed in that obligation, so the citizens are taking
up the burden. We have provisions for legal entry into the United
States. Every illegal should be shot on sight, be they man, women or
child. And we really have to change the law, so that children of
illegals born in the U.S. do not become citizens legally.
The main reason that you have so much trouble with your border is that
you moved it an awful long way into Mexico in the 19th century. If you
withdrew to your own borders the problem probably wouldn't go away, but
it would certainly ameliorate.
(Just a little historical perspective on the whole "crisis")
Ah yes, that great age of American imperialism when {Christian} Manifest
Destiny-advocates went around sparking wars to steal land from an unstable
nation to the south.
And that differs from the current mid-east adventures how?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "r norman" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 01:54:16 AM |
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On 12 Apr 2005 01:15:26 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:50:46 +0000 (GMT),
Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:
"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in news:3c097fF6k19d9U1
@individual.net:
maff wrote:
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders.
Our governmnt has failed in that obligation, so the citizens are taking
up the burden. We have provisions for legal entry into the United
States. Every illegal should be shot on sight, be they man, women or
child. And we really have to change the law, so that children of
illegals born in the U.S. do not become citizens legally.
The main reason that you have so much trouble with your border is that
you moved it an awful long way into Mexico in the 19th century. If you
withdrew to your own borders the problem probably wouldn't go away, but
it would certainly ameliorate.
(Just a little historical perspective on the whole "crisis")
Ah yes, that great age of American imperialism when Manifest
Destiny-advocates went around sparking wars to steal land from an unstable
nation to the south.
It seems to me that quite a few countries in Europe spent that century
plus the preceding several grabbing up everything on at least four
continents that they could seize and conquer. America learned its
imperialism from some real experts.
.
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 04:16:27 AM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:54:16 -0400,
r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote:
On 12 Apr 2005 01:15:26 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:50:46 +0000 (GMT),
Dave Oldridge <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:
"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in news:3c097fF6k19d9U1
@individual.net:
maff wrote:
A West Too Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/11/opinion/11mon1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8050
Vigilantism on our borders is an intolerable reminder that Washington
must embrace real and humane reform of our immigration policy.
It is the obligation of a government of a nation to guard its borders.
Our governmnt has failed in that obligation, so the citizens are taking
up the burden. We have provisions for legal entry into the United
States. Every illegal should be shot on sight, be they man, women or
child. And we really have to change the law, so that children of
illegals born in the U.S. do not become citizens legally.
The main reason that you have so much trouble with your border is that
you moved it an awful long way into Mexico in the 19th century. If you
withdrew to your own borders the problem probably wouldn't go away, but
it would certainly ameliorate.
(Just a little historical perspective on the whole "crisis")
Ah yes, that great age of American imperialism when Manifest
Destiny-advocates went around sparking wars to steal land from an unstable
nation to the south.
It seems to me that quite a few countries in Europe spent that century
plus the preceding several grabbing up everything on at least four
continents that they could seize and conquer. America learned its
imperialism from some real experts.
But, in fact, never really did all that well. They managed to steal
northern Mexico, but couldn't grab Canada, and even after beating the
Spanish were never able to grab Cuba or the Phillipines. Only Italy seems
to have done worse in the imperialism game.
--
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
12 Apr 2005 04:23:19 PM |
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AC wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:54:16 -0400,
r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote:
On 12 Apr 2005 01:15:26 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com>
wrote:
It seems to me that quite a few countries in Europe spent that
century
plus the preceding several grabbing up everything on at least four
continents that they could seize and conquer. America learned its
imperialism from some real experts.
But, in fact, never really did all that well. They managed to steal
northern Mexico, but couldn't grab Canada, and even after beating the
Spanish were never able to grab Cuba or the Phillipines.
Forced Spain out of Cuba and made it a US-dominated
satellite until post-WW2, took and kept the Phillipines
even longer, still has Puerto Rico.
Only Italy seems
to have done worse in the imperialism game.
When do you want to start measuring from?
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
13 Apr 2005 02:23:49 AM |
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wrote in news:1113322999.145041.185360
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
AC wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:54:16 -0400,
r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote:
On 12 Apr 2005 01:15:26 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com>
wrote:
It seems to me that quite a few countries in Europe spent that
century
plus the preceding several grabbing up everything on at least four
continents that they could seize and conquer. America learned its
imperialism from some real experts.
But, in fact, never really did all that well. They managed to steal
northern Mexico, but couldn't grab Canada, and even after beating the
Spanish were never able to grab Cuba or the Phillipines.
Forced Spain out of Cuba and made it a US-dominated
satellite until post-WW2, took and kept the Phillipines
even longer, still has Puerto Rico.
Only Italy seems
to have done worse in the imperialism game.
When do you want to start measuring from?
Well, actually, the Romans took Italy from the Etruscans and other former
owners, then proceeded to conquer the Phoenician-Greek alliance and take
Spain, France, North Africa, Greece, expanding that to Egypt and the rest
of the middle east fairly quickly as well as expanding into Germany and
Britain. What is now the Balkans, Greece and Turkey were all in the
Roman ambit.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "John S. Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
13 Apr 2005 02:32:50 AM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote in news:1113322999.145041.185360
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
AC wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:54:16 -0400,
r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote:
On 12 Apr 2005 01:15:26 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com>
wrote:
It seems to me that quite a few countries in Europe spent that
century
plus the preceding several grabbing up everything on at least four
continents that they could seize and conquer. America learned its
imperialism from some real experts.
But, in fact, never really did all that well. They managed to steal
northern Mexico, but couldn't grab Canada, and even after beating the
Spanish were never able to grab Cuba or the Phillipines.
Forced Spain out of Cuba and made it a US-dominated
satellite until post-WW2, took and kept the Phillipines
even longer, still has Puerto Rico.
Only Italy seems
to have done worse in the imperialism game.
When do you want to start measuring from?
Well, actually, the Romans took Italy from the Etruscans and other former
owners, then proceeded to conquer the Phoenician-Greek alliance and take
Spain, France, North Africa, Greece, expanding that to Egypt and the rest
of the middle east fairly quickly as well as expanding into Germany and
Britain. What is now the Balkans, Greece and Turkey were all in the
Roman ambit.
Give Eurasia back to the Neanderthals! Back to Africa Now!
--
John S. Wilkins
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
Biohumanities Project
School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
The University of Queensland
Brisbane, QLD 4072, Australia
Tel +61 7 3365 6348
Mobile 0418 543 856
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
13 Apr 2005 04:43:28 AM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote in news:1113322999.145041.185360
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
AC wrote:
Only Italy seems
to have done worse in the imperialism game.
When do you want to start measuring from?
Well, actually, the Romans took Italy from the Etruscans and other
former
owners, then proceeded to conquer the Phoenician-Greek alliance and
take
Spain, France, North Africa, Greece, expanding that to Egypt and the
rest
of the middle east fairly quickly as well as expanding into Germany
and
Britain. What is now the Balkans, Greece and Turkey were all in the
Roman ambit.
I see you've mastered addition...now try your hand at
*subtraction*. ;-) At the time when Italy was at
its height, the USA didn't even exist...and now that
the USA exists, Italy boasts about a tenth the USA's
population and holds territory about the size of the
USA's state of Arizona.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
14 Apr 2005 05:53:40 AM |
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wrote in news:1113367408.071327.58910
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
wrote in news:1113322999.145041.185360
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
AC wrote:
Only Italy seems
to have done worse in the imperialism game.
When do you want to start measuring from?
Well, actually, the Romans took Italy from the Etruscans and other
former
owners, then proceeded to conquer the Phoenician-Greek alliance and
take
Spain, France, North Africa, Greece, expanding that to Egypt and the
rest
of the middle east fairly quickly as well as expanding into Germany
and
Britain. What is now the Balkans, Greece and Turkey were all in the
Roman ambit.
I see you've mastered addition...now try your hand at
*subtraction*. ;-) At the time when Italy was at
its height, the USA didn't even exist...and now that
the USA exists, Italy boasts about a tenth the USA's
population and holds territory about the size of the
USA's state of Arizona.
Imperialism is always the same. The imperial center becomes overcrowded
with the debris of its own success and finally the infrastructure
collapses. In Italy in those days it was slave labour, constantly
replenished by war. In America today, it's oil, constantly replenished
by war.
Rome did not do so well when the expansion stopped. How the US will do
when the oil stops is still an open question.
Nothing, of course is written in stone. A lot depends on how people
react to stress.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
14 Apr 2005 12:58:34 PM |
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Dave Oldridge wrote:
by war.
Rome did not do so well when the expansion stopped. How the US will do
when the oil stops is still an open question.
There are at least a half dozen practical alternatives to oil. Among
which is coal (we have enough for a thousand years), geothermal heat,
solar energy, and the heat derived from burning ecologists.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: OT: A West Too Wild |
14 Apr 2005 01:22:14 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in news:3c77nqF6o0i1uU4
@individual.net:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
by war.
Rome did not do so well when the expansion stopped. How the US will
do
when the oil stops is still an open question.
There are at least a half dozen practical alternatives to oil. Among
which is coal (we have enough for a thousand years), geothermal heat,
solar energy, and the heat derived from burning ecologists.
Oh, I quite agree. There were practical alternatives to slave labour in
Rome, too. What brought them down was the lack of political will to
change things quickly enough to adapt to what was actually happening.
In point of fact, there is enough uranium to keep things going well into
the future, using proven, coolant-moderated reactor technology to
generate electricity and hydrogen fuel cells to power road vehicles.
But we could easily do a political number on ourselves and fail to take
advantage of our knowledge. The Romans got so lax they forgot how to
make concrete!
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
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