| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
03 Oct 2006 08:10:06 AM |
| Object: |
OT: An interesting picture |
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-edit2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the
news coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets
hit.
Bob Dog
Atheist #153 = 1^3 + 5^3 + 3^3
EAC's chief cook and brainwasher
-----
"The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American
recently passed each other going in the oposite direction."
- George Carlin
"Professor Telhami's accurate depiction of America's non-
credibility in the Muslim world encapsulates the consequences
of a half century of U.S. Middle Eastern policy that moved
America from being the much admired champion of liberty and
self-government to the hated and feared advocate of a new
imperial order, one that has much the same characteristics as
nineteenth-century European imperialism: military garrisons;
economic penetration and control; support for leaders, no
matter how brutal and undemocratic, as long as they obey the
imperial power; and the exploitation and depletion of natural
resources."
- Anonymous, "Imperial Hubris" (2004)
.
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| User: "Hotel Charlie One" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 01:09:36 PM |
|
|
wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-edi
t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the
news coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets
hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice how
none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is almost
impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the Earth's
rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So, why then
did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the Northern
Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere but
rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to point out to an
environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is responsible for
everything wrong with the planet".
--
The actions of the disgraceful Clinton and Bush administrations
make it possible for me to say without shame that I deeply regret
the day I put the uniform of my country. The freedoms that I was
willing to protect with my life are being lost. The America of
our founders is dead. All we are waiting for now is rigor mortis.
HotelCharlieOne
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 01:21:08 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-edi
t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the
news coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets
hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice how
none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is almost
impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the Earth's
rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So, why then
did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the Northern
Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere but
rather in the Southern Hemisphere?
That's talking about locally rotating air masses. Do you understand
the difference? Do you also understand that also have CFCs in the
Southern Hemisphere even if your "argument" were valid? Or did the
never have refrigerators etc in Australia, South America or Southern
Africa?
Just something to point out to an
environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is responsible for
everything wrong with the planet".
Argument by derision of your own strawman.
.
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| User: "Hotel Charlie One" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 02:56:25 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2po4i2h01n30dgpc0egf57r4ntd8un5a7n@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere?
That's talking about locally rotating air masses.
Locally rotating? Look at the map. By your definition local is the
entire North Atlantic or Western Pacific.
Do you understand the difference?
Do you?
Do you also understand that also have CFCs in the Southern
Hemisphere even if your "argument" were valid? Or did the never have
refrigerators etc in Australia, South America or Southern Africa?
Of course, but look at the map again. Where are the most people.
Northern Hemisphere. Where are the most people capable of leaking CFCs
into the atmosphere. Certainly not Sub saharan Africa. The answer is
the Northern Hemisphere again. So again I ask, why the big hole in the
Southern Hemisphere and not a equal or in fact larger hole in the
North?
Just something to point out to an environmentalist whenever he or
she says "man is responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Argument by derision of your own strawman.
And considering your rebuttal, it looks like a damn strong strawman
indeed.
-- The actions of the disgraceful Clinton and Bush administrations
make it possible for me to say without shame that I deeply regret the
day I put the uniform of my country. The freedoms that I was willing
to protect with my life are being lost. The America of our founders is
dead. All we are waiting for now is rigor mortis.
HotelCharlieOne
.
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| User: "Voracious" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
04 Oct 2006 12:07:21 AM |
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Hotel Charlie One wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2po4i2h01n30dgpc0egf57r4ntd8un5a7n@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere?
That's talking about locally rotating air masses.
Locally rotating? Look at the map. By your definition local is the
entire North Atlantic or Western Pacific.
By local, one reasonably interprets Lee's comment to mean local to where
the storm tracks fall.
Do you understand the difference?
Do you?
Do you also understand that also have CFCs in the Southern
Hemisphere even if your "argument" were valid? Or did the never have
refrigerators etc in Australia, South America or Southern Africa?
Of course, but look at the map again. Where are the most people.
Northern Hemisphere. Where are the most people capable of leaking CFCs
into the atmosphere. Certainly not Sub saharan Africa. The answer is
the Northern Hemisphere again. So again I ask, why the big hole in the
Southern Hemisphere and not a equal or in fact larger hole in the
North?
Perhaps because there are larger land masses in the northern hemisphere
with more geographical features to affect (read: disrupt) weather
patterns. The southern hemisphere, with less land, has fewer features to
interfere with weather systems.
It's similar to the impact of acid rain: the polluting areas don't
directly suffer from acid rain - it falls where the winds carry the
sulfur dioxide and other pollutants.
Voracious
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 03:10:19 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:56:25 GMT, Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2po4i2h01n30dgpc0egf57r4ntd8un5a7n@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere?
That's talking about locally rotating air masses.
Locally rotating? Look at the map. By your definition local is the
entire North Atlantic or Western Pacific.
Thank you for telling me what I "really mean".
Do you understand the difference?
Do you?
Obviously. Just as obviously you are comparing chalk and cheese.
Comparatively low, comparatively local air masses aren't the same as
rarefied air way up high.
Do you also understand that also have CFCs in the Southern
Hemisphere even if your "argument" were valid? Or did the never have
refrigerators etc in Australia, South America or Southern Africa?
Of course, but look at the map again. Where are the most people.
Northern Hemisphere. Where are the most people capable of leaking CFCs
into the atmosphere. Certainly not Sub saharan Africa. The answer is
the Northern Hemisphere again. So again I ask, why the big hole in the
Southern Hemisphere and not a equal or in fact larger hole in the
North?
I don't know. But then I'm not the one comparing relatively low,
relatively low air masses with the rarified air up high.
Just something to point out to an environmentalist whenever he or
she says "man is responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Argument by derision of your own strawman.
And considering your rebuttal, it looks like a damn strong strawman
indeed.
You wish.
.
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| User: "Hotel Charlie One" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 04:53:46 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:g5v4i25lm1mek49f5ng9ct3kq1r4d6qkbn@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:56:25 GMT, Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2po4i2h01n30dgpc0egf57r4ntd8un5a7n@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks
-e di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the
news coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets
hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to
the Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated.
So, why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in
the Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the
Northern Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere?
That's talking about locally rotating air masses.
Locally rotating? Look at the map. By your definition local is the
entire North Atlantic or Western Pacific.
Thank you for telling me what I "really mean".
Fine, define locally within the confines of the map.
Do you understand the difference?
Do you?
Obviously. Just as obviously you are comparing chalk and cheese.
Comparatively low, comparatively local air masses aren't the same as
rarefied air way up high.
Not really, you need only look at the atmospheric banding of the gas
giant planets to see that the thin upper atmosphere also follows a
path parallel to the surface rotation. There are *no* bands
emanating in the Northern Hemisphere and terminating in the Southern
of any of the gas giants.
Do you also understand that also have CFCs in the Southern
Hemisphere even if your "argument" were valid? Or did the never
have refrigerators etc in Australia, South America or Southern
Africa?
Of course, but look at the map again. Where are the most people.
Northern Hemisphere. Where are the most people capable of leaking
CFCs into the atmosphere. Certainly not Sub saharan Africa. The
answer is the Northern Hemisphere again. So again I ask, why the big
hole in the Southern Hemisphere and not a equal or in fact larger
hole in the North?
I don't know. But then I'm not the one comparing relatively low,
relatively low air masses with the rarified air up high.
Just something to point out to an environmentalist whenever he or
she says "man is responsible for everything wrong with the
planet".
Argument by derision of your own strawman.
And considering your rebuttal, it looks like a damn strong strawman
indeed.
You wish.
Fine, ball is your court. Find evidence, present it for review.
-- The actions of the disgraceful Clinton and Bush administrations
make it possible for me to say without shame that I deeply regret the
day I put the uniform of my country. The freedoms that I was willing
to protect with my life are being lost. The America of our founders is
dead. All we are waiting for now is rigor mortis.
HotelCharlieOne
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 05:37:03 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-edi
t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the
news coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets
hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice how
none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is almost
impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the Earth's
rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So, why then
did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the Northern
Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere but
rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to point out to an
environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is responsible for
everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how do
they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and within the
stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a CFC molecule
released at sea level to rise high enough in the stratosphere to be
photolyzed. North-South transport, in both troposphere and
stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in the tropics (it can
take a year or two to get across the equator) but there is still
plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost uniformly as a function
of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from Northern to Southern
Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al. 1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Hotel Charlie One" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 06:16:11 PM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:qk75i2tvf1fb8nfbgvd5t44hi4fr453ug7@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to
point out to an environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is
responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how
do they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and
within the stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a
CFC molecule released at sea level to rise high enough in the
stratosphere to be photolyzed. North-South transport, in both
troposphere and stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in
the tropics (it can take a year or two to get across the equator)
but there is still plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost
uniformly as a function of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from
Northern to Southern Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al.
1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
But that still doesn't explain why the CFCs can exist in the upper
atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere for years and *not* form an
ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere.
I sure don't have all of the answers but this just doesn't pass the
smell test. It looks very much like "creation science" science. We
have an agenda, we have a conclusion, now let's find the evidence that
supports our conclusion and ignore any evidence that refutes it. And I
have to say, any explanation of a missing Northern Hemisphere ozone
hole based on CFCs migrating south just seems very dubious.
--
The actions of the disgraceful Clinton and Bush administrations
make it possible for me to say without shame that I deeply regret the
day I put the uniform of my country. The freedoms that I was willing
to protect with my life are being lost. The America of our founders is
dead. All we are waiting for now is rigor mortis.
HotelCharlieOne
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
04 Oct 2006 12:08:43 AM |
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Hotel Charlie One <hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Xns9851729F04A98cipciphc1@199.45.49.11:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:qk75i2tvf1fb8nfbgvd5t44hi4fr453ug7@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to
point out to an environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is
responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how
do they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and
within the stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a
CFC molecule released at sea level to rise high enough in the
stratosphere to be photolyzed. North-South transport, in both
troposphere and stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in
the tropics (it can take a year or two to get across the equator)
but there is still plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost
uniformly as a function of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from
Northern to Southern Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al.
1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
But that still doesn't explain why the CFCs can exist in the upper
atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere for years and *not* form an
ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere.
They do. Ozone is depleted over both poles. The extent of depletion is much
greater over Antarctica because the Antartic stratosphere is colder in the
winter than the Artic allowing a much greater build up of polar
stratospheric clouds. These clouds cause a large quantity of the
atmospheric cholrine to be released in the form of reactive free radicals.
I sure don't have all of the answers but this just doesn't pass the
smell test.
Then it would pay for you to actually find something out about it before
spouting *****.
Klazmon.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
04 Oct 2006 12:26:04 AM |
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On 4 Oct 2006 13:08:43 +1300, in alt.atheism , Llanzlan Klazmon the
15th <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> in
<Xns985285B8EFD36Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6> wrote:
Hotel Charlie One <hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Xns9851729F04A98cipciphc1@199.45.49.11:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:qk75i2tvf1fb8nfbgvd5t44hi4fr453ug7@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to
point out to an environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is
responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how
do they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and
within the stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a
CFC molecule released at sea level to rise high enough in the
stratosphere to be photolyzed. North-South transport, in both
troposphere and stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in
the tropics (it can take a year or two to get across the equator)
but there is still plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost
uniformly as a function of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from
Northern to Southern Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al.
1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
But that still doesn't explain why the CFCs can exist in the upper
atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere for years and *not* form an
ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere.
They do. Ozone is depleted over both poles. The extent of depletion is much
greater over Antarctica because the Antartic stratosphere is colder in the
winter than the Artic allowing a much greater build up of polar
stratospheric clouds. These clouds cause a large quantity of the
atmospheric cholrine to be released in the form of reactive free radicals.
I sure don't have all of the answers but this just doesn't pass the
smell test.
Then it would pay for you to actually find something out about it before
spouting *****.
And now we will see a real comparison to creationists. HC1 raised an
objection, it has been answered. Will he admit it or will he search
for new ways to support his conclusion?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
05 Oct 2006 04:02:15 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 00:26:04 GMT, in alt.atheism , Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> in
<mqv5i2ls7blj2snatn76684f4lqe39t2t8@4ax.com> wrote:
On 4 Oct 2006 13:08:43 +1300, in alt.atheism , Llanzlan Klazmon the
15th <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> in
<Xns985285B8EFD36Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6> wrote:
Hotel Charlie One <hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Xns9851729F04A98cipciphc1@199.45.49.11:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:qk75i2tvf1fb8nfbgvd5t44hi4fr453ug7@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to
point out to an environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is
responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how
do they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and
within the stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a
CFC molecule released at sea level to rise high enough in the
stratosphere to be photolyzed. North-South transport, in both
troposphere and stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in
the tropics (it can take a year or two to get across the equator)
but there is still plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost
uniformly as a function of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from
Northern to Southern Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al.
1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
But that still doesn't explain why the CFCs can exist in the upper
atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere for years and *not* form an
ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere.
They do. Ozone is depleted over both poles. The extent of depletion is much
greater over Antarctica because the Antartic stratosphere is colder in the
winter than the Artic allowing a much greater build up of polar
stratospheric clouds. These clouds cause a large quantity of the
atmospheric cholrine to be released in the form of reactive free radicals.
I sure don't have all of the answers but this just doesn't pass the
smell test.
Then it would pay for you to actually find something out about it before
spouting *****.
And now we will see a real comparison to creationists. HC1 raised an
objection, it has been answered. Will he admit it or will he search
for new ways to support his conclusion?
Well, two days and not response. If more is needed here are some FAQs
to read:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
04 Oct 2006 12:35:33 AM |
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Hotel Charlie One wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:qk75i2tvf1fb8nfbgvd5t44hi4fr453ug7@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to
point out to an environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is
responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how
do they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and
within the stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a
CFC molecule released at sea level to rise high enough in the
stratosphere to be photolyzed. North-South transport, in both
troposphere and stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in
the tropics (it can take a year or two to get across the equator)
but there is still plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost
uniformly as a function of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from
Northern to Southern Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al.
1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
But that still doesn't explain why the CFCs can exist in the upper
atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere for years and *not* form an
ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere.
The explanation of that is fairly straightforward.
In antactica there is a highly symmetric and stable air circulation -
basicly circumpolar - just goes endlessly round n round.
This leaves a mass of air permanently siitting above a large high cold
continent. ( The North pole in contrast is mostly Sea - and wind is
moving air every which way - the air above the north pole never gets as
cold - and never *stays* cold for long.)
So the result of all this is that the air above antarctica is much
colder than anywhere else on earth - and this results in the formation
of high ice clouds - and it is the surface of these ice crystals which
catalyze the ozone destroying reactions.
(people have replicated this in laboratory cloud chambers - the ice
crystals speed up the rate of the reaction hundreds of times -
everything else kept equal.)
There *is* an Arctic ozone hole - but it is less intense (less "deep")
and less stable - because of all of the above reasons.
It's real science backed by plenty of observations - and its been known
for a long time.
Now ya know. 8-)
Mark.
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| User: "Voracious" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
04 Oct 2006 12:11:17 AM |
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Hotel Charlie One wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:qk75i2tvf1fb8nfbgvd5t44hi4fr453ug7@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to
point out to an environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is
responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how
do they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and
within the stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a
CFC molecule released at sea level to rise high enough in the
stratosphere to be photolyzed. North-South transport, in both
troposphere and stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in
the tropics (it can take a year or two to get across the equator)
but there is still plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost
uniformly as a function of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from
Northern to Southern Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al.
1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
But that still doesn't explain why the CFCs can exist in the upper
atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere for years and *not* form an
ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere.
I sure don't have all of the answers but this just doesn't pass the
smell test. It looks very much like "creation science" science. We
have an agenda, we have a conclusion, now let's find the evidence that
supports our conclusion and ignore any evidence that refutes it. And I
have to say, any explanation of a missing Northern Hemisphere ozone
hole based on CFCs migrating south just seems very dubious.
The conveyor belts of winds is conductive to sending Northern
Hemisphere-produced pollution toward the south. Conditions aren't as
favorable for ozone hole formation in the northern latitudes! Likewise,
nothing has been presented here to indicate any sort of South-North
transfer to compensate.
Voracious
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 06:40:39 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:16:11 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns9851729F04A98cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:qk75i2tvf1fb8nfbgvd5t44hi4fr453ug7@4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:09:36 GMT, in alt.atheism , Hotel Charlie One
<hotel_charlie_one@yahoo.com> in
<Xns98513EA52DD78cipciphc1@199.45.49.11> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in
news:1159863005.894028.66030@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-e
di t2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the news
coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets hit.
Neat photo and it points out another fact ignored by many. Notice
how none of these storm tracks cross the Equator. Actually it is
almost impossible for large air mass to cross the Equator due to the
Earth's rotation and the subsequent Coriolis Force generated. So,
why then did the production of chloroflourocarbons created in the
Northern Hemisphere not cause a great ozone hole in the Northern
Hemisphere but rather in the Southern Hemisphere? Just something to
point out to an environmentalist whenever he or she says "man is
responsible for everything wrong with the planet".
Ozone Depletion FAQ Part II: Stratospheric Chlorine and Bromine
"Subject: 4.2) CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, so how
do they get down to the Antarctic? Vertical transport into and
within the stratosphere is slow. It takes more than 5 years for a
CFC molecule released at sea level to rise high enough in the
stratosphere to be photolyzed. North-South transport, in both
troposphere and stratosphere, is faster - there is a bottleneck in
the tropics (it can take a year or two to get across the equator)
but there is still plenty of time. CFC's are distributed almost
uniformly as a function of latitude, with a gradient of ~10% from
Northern to Southern Hemispheres. [Singh et al. 1979] [Elkins et al.
1993]"
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/stratcl/
But that still doesn't explain why the CFCs can exist in the upper
atmosphere of the Northern Hemisphere for years and *not* form an
ozone hole in the Northern Hemisphere.
Ozone has decrease in the *entire* upper atmosphere, not just at the
poles. The area of severe depletion is large in the south than north,
but "holes" exist at both.
I sure don't have all of the answers but this just doesn't pass the
smell test.
Have you read enough of the real science to know?
It looks very much like "creation science" science.
Which aspect? The lack of peer review? Nope. Use of a text as
evidence? Nope. Lack of experiment? Nope.
We
have an agenda,
What agenda *prior* to the discovery of something damaging to people?
we have a conclusion, now let's find the evidence that
supports our conclusion and ignore any evidence that refutes it.
So show you don't fit that description, where is your evidence? Do you
read the atmospheric science literature?
And I
have to say, any explanation of a missing Northern Hemisphere ozone
hole based on CFCs migrating south just seems very dubious.
Has anyone tried that? According to what I found in about 5 minutes is
that the air above the Arctic is warmer than that above the Antarctic
and that is why the hole is larger in the south.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0925ozonehole.html
also http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20020930solve.html
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
03 Oct 2006 08:16:42 AM |
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wrote:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-edit2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the
news coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets
hit.
Nice find, Bob! I think I've sat under a few of those..and Doc & Mark
probably a few more.
And you're right. Look how they pound Asia. Now I know why the local
"news" program is so fond of showing :15sec of typhoon footage every
week. People actually get killed over there.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man Sept 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: OT: An interesting picture |
04 Oct 2006 01:07:42 AM |
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wrote in
news:1159863402.621235.280040@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
bg12...@apexmail.com wrote:
Posted for the "coolness" factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_tropical_cyclone_tracks-edit
2.jpg
One interesting point: Look how comparatively few storms hit
the Carribean and the southeast US, yet if you judged by the
news coverage, one would think it's the only place that gets
hit.
Nice find, Bob! I think I've sat under a few of those..and Doc & Mark
probably a few more.
And you're right. Look how they pound Asia. Now I know why the local
"news" program is so fond of showing :15sec of typhoon footage every
week. People actually get killed over there.
I'm digging this season--so far, nothing more than a few hours' rain and
some wind coming from the wrong direction, but no power loss, no damage.
and no standing in line for MRE's and bottled water.
--
Doc Smartass
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of
words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the
people who must use the words. - Philip K. *****
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