Religions > Atheism > OT: Barbarity is the inevitable consequence of foreign rule
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
27 Jan 2005 02:44:59 AM |
| Object: |
OT: Barbarity is the inevitable consequence of foreign rule |
Barbarity is the inevitable consequence of foreign rule
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1399445,00.html
Brown has gone further than Blair in the attempt to rehabilitate empire
Seumas Milne
Thursday January 27, 2005
The Guardian
Perhaps Gordon Brown is preparing for that day after the next general
election when Tony Blair is expected to offer him the choice of the
Foreign Office or the backbenches. Or maybe he just thinks that if he
can't beat the Blairites, he might as well join them. But the
chancellor's declaration in Africa that Britain should stop apologising
for its colonial history must give an unwelcome jolt to anyone hoping
that a Brown government might step back from the liberal imperialist
swagger and wars of intervention that have marked Blair's leadership.
Far from being some heat-induced gaffe, his latest imperial turn
follows an earlier remark that we should be proud of those who built
the empire, which had been all about being "open, outward-looking and
international". Even Blair, who was prevailed on to cut an "I am proud
of the British empire" line from a speech during the 1997 election
campaign, has never gone this far.
Seumas Milne
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/0b90e3f8cb6906ef
Imperialism
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/5caa8368cb2e7b29
Colonialism
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/4949801e8849003c
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Barbarity is the inevitable consequence of foreign rule |
14 Feb 2005 03:18:25 PM |
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maff wrote:
Barbarity is the inevitable consequence of foreign rule
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1399445,00.html
Brown has gone further than Blair in the attempt to rehabilitate
empire
Seumas Milne
Thursday January 27, 2005
The Guardian
Perhaps Gordon Brown is preparing for that day after the next general
election when Tony Blair is expected to offer him the choice of the
Foreign Office or the backbenches. Or maybe he just thinks that if he
can't beat the Blairites, he might as well join them. But the
chancellor's declaration in Africa that Britain should stop
apologising
for its colonial history must give an unwelcome jolt to anyone hoping
that a Brown government might step back from the liberal imperialist
swagger and wars of intervention that have marked Blair's leadership.
Far from being some heat-induced gaffe, his latest imperial turn
follows an earlier remark that we should be proud of those who built
the empire, which had been all about being "open, outward-looking and
international". Even Blair, who was prevailed on to cut an "I am
proud
of the British empire" line from a speech during the 1997 election
campaign, has never gone this far.
Seumas Milne
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/0b90e3f8cb6906ef
Imperialism
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/5caa8368cb2e7b29
Colonialism
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/4949801e8849003c
Don't blame imperialism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,,1411283,00.html
Saturday February 12, 2005
The Guardian
It has been drawn to my attention that Seumas Milne has once again been
heaping opprobrium on the history of the British empire, not to mention
on me (Barbarity is the inevitable consequence of foreign rule, January
27). Milne makes the mistake of concluding from a small number of
familiar episodes - the Bengal famines, Mau Mau - that the history of
the British empire is nothing more than a history of "horrors". He also
implies an equivalence with "Stalin's terror and the monstrosities of
Nazism". What he fails to consider is the entire balance sheet of
British rule, as well as the counterfactual question: would British
colonies have achieved more peace and prosperity in the absence of
British rule? Certainly, in the case of many African countries, it is
clear that they would not. Many have, in fact, achieved next to no
economic progress since independence - quite a feat given the rates of
growth of the rest of the world economy. Finally, Milne leaves out of
account that foreign rule has no monopoly on "barbarity". Sadly, the
worst barbarities perpetrated against Africans in the 20th century have
been by other Africans. Compared with the genocide in Rwanda, to name
just one example, the repression of Mau Mau was a minor, if deplorable
episode. Oh, and spare me the Robert Mugabe line that everything that
goes amiss in Africa today is a legacy of colonialism.
Niall Ferguson
Professor of International History, Harvard University
Niall Ferguson
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/2f17e48812222043
An empire built on blood
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,,1412133,00.html
Monday February 14, 2005
The Guardian
From his lofty vantage point at Harvard, Niall Ferguson (Letters,
February 12) should know as well as anyone that the British empire
(like the American) was built on genocide and slavery. No amount of his
counterfactual history can obliterate the obvious reality that the
peace and prosperity provided to white settlers and their native allies
weighed little in the balance sheet of the slaves and indigenous
peoples.
Richard Gott
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/d4e7271462d0c8db
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