On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 23:54:10 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:

In article <11n9no7abbosu6e@corp.supernews.com>,
wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

stoney wrote:

Bush Declares: 'We Do Not Torture'
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer


PANAMA CITY, Panama - President Bush on Monday defended U.S.
interrogation practices and called the treatment of terrorism
suspects lawful. "We do not torture," Bush declared in
response to reports of secret CIA prisons overseas.

Bush supported an effort spearheaded by Vice President *****
Cheney to block or modify a proposed Senate-passed ban on
torture.

....

Cheney is seeking to persuade Congress to exempt the Central
Intelligence Agency from the proposed torture ban if one is
passed by both chambers.

...

Power corrupts.

South America is a land where torture was common under
right winged generals in Brazil, the dirt war in Argentina,
El Salvador, Chile under Pinochet and we supported all
those regimes.

This is likely then a sore spot with many South Americans,
and to listen to brazen lies by Bush in face of the Buhs
campaign spearheaded by Cheney to head off a ban on torture
is sure to be noticed by rank and file South American voters.

Bush just stripped all credibilty from himself, his regime,
and the USA with this brazen lie while visiting South America,
where torture by right winged regimes has a long history and
is not at all forgotten, or a minor issue.

Bush has to be the dumbest %!$!$! we have ever had for
president. Worse yet, his handlers, the state department
and others that are supposed to advice AWOL seem to also
have tin ears on this issue.

Bush has strongly reinforced the Ugly America portrait
in South America and for the next three years, The US
is not going to have any sympathy or good will from
South America. Nobody there will trust AWOL's good
sense, good will, judgment or morality. Not his
competence for sure, and they wil all know he is a liar.

To have this man stand there and lie while his
regime threatens to kill major bills to keep
torture an option is a slap in the face of everybody
in South America who has been touched by such things
there in the past and find this an important issue
to them. While the world media reports what is being
done in Washington, AWOL lies into the faces of all,
a vast insult to the intelligence and morality of many.

I don't think most people understand any of this
and how deeply it wil hurt us, and not just in
the Middle East.

And it's not only South America. I'm wondering how these allegations of
'secret prisons' in Eastern Europe are playing out in that part of the
world. They must awaken bitter memories in many of the citizens of those
countries who suffered themselves, or had family of friends suffer in
those very same places when the Communists were in power.

Those reports you can count on as fact, based on the Shrub regimes
extensive track record of abuses.

johac wrote:

In article <11n9no7abbosu6e@corp.supernews.com>,
wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

stoney wrote:

Bush Declares: 'We Do Not Torture'
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer


PANAMA CITY, Panama - President Bush on Monday defended
U.S. interrogation practices and called the treatment of
terrorism suspects lawful. "We do not torture," Bush
declared in response to reports of secret CIA prisons
overseas.

Bush supported an effort spearheaded by Vice President *****
Cheney to block or modify a proposed Senate-passed ban on
torture.

....

Cheney is seeking to persuade Congress to exempt the
Central Intelligence Agency from the proposed torture ban
if one is passed by both chambers.

...

Power corrupts.

South America is a land where torture was common under
right winged generals in Brazil, the dirt war in Argentina,
El Salvador, Chile under Pinochet and we supported all
those regimes.

This is likely then a sore spot with many South Americans,
and to listen to brazen lies by Bush in face of the Buhs
campaign spearheaded by Cheney to head off a ban on torture
is sure to be noticed by rank and file South American voters.

Bush just stripped all credibilty from himself, his regime,
and the USA with this brazen lie while visiting South America,
where torture by right winged regimes has a long history and
is not at all forgotten, or a minor issue.

Bush has to be the dumbest %!$!$! we have ever had for
president. Worse yet, his handlers, the state department
and others that are supposed to advice AWOL seem to also
have tin ears on this issue.

Bush has strongly reinforced the Ugly America portrait
in South America and for the next three years, The US
is not going to have any sympathy or good will from
South America. Nobody there will trust AWOL's good
sense, good will, judgment or morality. Not his
competence for sure, and they wil all know he is a liar.

To have this man stand there and lie while his
regime threatens to kill major bills to keep
torture an option is a slap in the face of everybody
in South America who has been touched by such things
there in the past and find this an important issue
to them. While the world media reports what is being
done in Washington, AWOL lies into the faces of all,
a vast insult to the intelligence and morality of many.

I don't think most people understand any of this
and how deeply it wil hurt us, and not just in
the Middle East.

And it's not only South America. I'm wondering how these allegations
of 'secret prisons' in Eastern Europe are playing out in that part
of the world. They must awaken bitter memories in many of the
citizens of those countries who suffered themselves, or had family
of friends suffer in those very same places when the Communists were
in power.

Yes, the iron curtain falls and the torture chambers and prisons
are ended and we move in and set right up again. And Bush lies
in a speech "we do not tiortuire" as the GOP Senate dmenads
and investigation in to teh leaks about these prisons and Bush
threatens to vetos bill where anti-torture legislation is attached.

The GOP is stupid, and morally evil.
Everybody notices and winces but they keep posturong and lying.

In teh days of Nixon, the Greek Colonels had a coup and started
inprisoning those who could oppose them and freely tortured
people. Nixon and the GOP made little effort to speak out
and in fact, despite US law banning military aid to Greece,
was coaught sending military equipment mislabelled surplus
and other stunts.

To this day, many Greeks hate the US and mistrust us.
And why not? We never admitted to any of that and
never apologized, and never made any real reforms.
We went on to other winks and nods, East Timur, the
Phoenix program, secret bombing of Cambodia, winking
at the Brazilian and Argentinian generals. Pinochet,
and a host of other petty criminal disatators world
wide.

There will be a tipping point, and we may be there,
where we lose all trust from the world and are regarded
with all the fondness of Stalin's Soviet Union.

Its deeply frustrating to me to have 30 years of GOP
morons and 30 years of 'conservative' reactionaries who
simply do not care about any of this, have no morals,
and no sense of strategy or Tactics if they aren't
going to have morals or ethics.

Ammoral AND stupid.

And apparently no amount of logic or scorn, or
shame or rationality reaches people like that.
Its like trying to reason with rabid anti-semites.

Roedy Green wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:28:33 -0600, wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :

"We do not torture," Bush declared in

response to reports of secret CIA prisons overseas.

But at the same time wants to keep his options open to continue to
do
so. How can he possibly deny this after there are CONVICTIONS and
after the judge released the kiddie rape tapes?

Bush's can't get it up without a child torture video. There is no
way he or Libby will give that up without a fight.

The funny thing is, such tortures were one of the things
people like Bush were against when Saddam was doing it.
Though Reagan and Bush were not against it that much
when they were pro-Saddam back in the 80's

Saddam's thugs routinely practiced child rape and
torture in front of parents, a real way to keep people
silent.

So this sort of crap has resonance in Iraq and the
Middle East.

Which is a point most people seem to miss.
We are back to doing what Saddam did.
And people notice and hate it.

Bush is truely stupid.