| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
30 Jun 2005 10:53:26 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
By Daniel Sorid Thu Jun 30,10:00 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The next road you travel -- and pay a toll
to use -- could be privately owned.
Looking for ways to finance highway projects without hitting the
public trough, the U.S. Congress appears set to pass a proposal to
encourage private ownership of new toll roads.
The provision, part of the highway spending bill now being hammered
out by a Senate and House conference committee, would allow private
companies to raise up to $15 billion for highway projects with bonds
that are exempt from federal income taxes.
While the proposal has broad support in Washington and the business
community, the idea of private highways has incited grassroots
opposition in some states, with some saying the government -- not a
profit-seeking company -- is the proper owner of the public's roads.
Toll road owners such as Spain's Cintra (CCIT.MC) and Australia's
Macquarie Infrastructure Group (MIG.AX) stand to benefit from the move
to private infrastructure bonds, since their tax-exempt status would
keep interest rates and funding costs low.
The move would also bring lucrative fees to Wall Street banks and
others for underwriting and trading tax-exempt debt.
"The time has come for this," Sen. Jim Talent (news, bio, voting
record), a Missouri Republican who co-sponsored the proposal, said in
a telephone interview. "I think we have an excellent chance of the $15
billion bond issue coming out of conference."
MAJOR SHIFT
While highway spending has traditionally been the government's
responsibility, many states faced with tight budgets have given
corporations the right to build, operate and maintain roads.
States have the right to regulate toll rates or limit profits, but
generally give operators wide latitude to run the roads as they see
fit, which concerns some commuters.
Texas, California and Virginia are among the states at the forefront
of the movement, one of the most significant changes to the interstate
highway network since its inception in the 1950s.
Companies already own projects such as the Chicago Skyway Bridge and
the 407 Express that rings Toronto, and interest in privatizing more
of the U.S. highway infrastructure is increasing. One bottleneck,
however, has been financing.
Jose Lopez De Fuentes, director of Cintra's U.S. and Latin American
operation, said private road builders currently face complex
regulations governing the issuance of tax-exempt bonds.
The provision expected to emerge from Congress would help Cintra raise
funds to finance such projects as a proposed $7 billion investment in
the Texas highway system, he said.
Cintra's proposal, which includes a new link on the congested
Dallas-San Antonio route, has triggered some opposition, but the state
transportation department is ecstatic.
"That's a pretty good deal any way you slice it," said Gaby Garcia, a
spokeswoman with the Texas department. "They'll cover the table with
$7 billion and say, 'We'll raise that money on our own without any
help from you."'
TAPPING THE TAX ROLLS
But Ellen Danning, a law professor at Wayne State University in
Detroit who has written on privatization, said private companies are
not necessarily more efficient at running roads, and their tolls
amount to a regressive tax on highway building.
A better solution to public underfunding of the road system may be to
roll back tax cuts that are squeezing the federal budget, Danning
said.
"One of the things to ask yourself is, why doesn't the government have
the money to spend on the infrastructure that we need?" she said.
And while the private-activity bonds will not require any outlay of
public funds, the government would pay for the plan in the form of
reduced tax rolls, estimated at $500 million over six years.
In a highway bill that would cost $275 billion or more in that time,
$500 million is a small price to pay for a novel financing mechanism
that could pay for dozens of projects, said Katherine Hedlund, an
Arlington, Virginia-based partner at Nossaman, Guthner, Knox & Elliott
LLP, which advises state governments on transportation issues.
"Federal funding through gas taxes and state and local taxes are no
longer sufficient to maintain our highway assets and to build the
additional assets we need to get ourselves out of congestion," Hedlund
said.
Private road builders and public-private partnerships can pay out less
interest on tax-exempt bonds, reducing the financing costs of projects
by 20 percent, she said.
Ed Mortimer, director of transportation infrastructure at the
U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said an additional $15 billion in financing
could fund 20 or 30 highway projects.
The proposal could provide a special boost to projects to expand
connections between ports or industrial sites and the highways. Such
roads are less popular -- but no less important -- than routes used by
commuters.
"Sometimes," Mortimer said, "those projects are the hardest ones to
get funded."
© 2005 Reuters
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 11:39:12 AM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:bcf9c1tjml7aq4umadud049fv2n6p8akoa@4ax.com...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
Great, I can see it now: "This toll road reserves the right to refuse
service to anyone."
Well, if they make them all toll roads, they won't be needing all those
taxes, will they?
*****.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
30 Jun 2005 11:12:35 PM |
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TV's stoney wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
By Daniel Sorid Thu Jun 30,10:00 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The next road you travel -- and pay a toll
to use -- could be privately owned.
Another front on the war on the common man. In a few years, only the rich
will be able to use the toll roads, while the rest of us will have to sit in
traffic on the old two-laners.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 12:38:53 AM |
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"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:LsOdnUfSCO4sX1nfRVn-vQ@centurytel.net:
TV's stoney wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
By Daniel Sorid Thu Jun 30,10:00 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The next road you travel -- and pay a toll
to use -- could be privately owned.
Another front on the war on the common man. In a few years, only the
rich will be able to use the toll roads, while the rest of us will have
to sit in traffic on the old two-laners.
No, the point of the toll roads is to make the rich richer, not reward them
with a private road. The idea of a private road for the rich is ludicrous.
I know of no person that would invest in that business model.
No, the whole idea is to have as many people as possible travel the toll
roads. The gas stations along the way, the shopping centers, and all the
rest are going to make a lot of people a lot of money.
Why is AOL so successful? Why is microsoft so successful? Why is Ford so
successful? They cater to the lowest denominator. The person with below
average intelligence. They offer a product that is affordable and simple
to use. So simple to use that a demented grandmother 85 years of age can
use it. Now if only the smart or rich or mandicapped can use a product,
then the market is very small and little money is to be made. Make it so
everyone can use it and billions will be made. Same with the toll road.
Your assertion that only the rich will be able to use the roads is wrong
and ridiculous.
What could be interesting is the issue of law enforcement on the proposed
toll roads. The federal goverment says that the top speed is XX, but who
is going to enforce the speed limits on a private road? Private cops?
What if that toll road charged $1.00 per mile but never issued a speeding
ticket? What would prevent someone from creating an Autobahn? What if a
private toll road had a high speed "express" lane and they charged extra
for unlimited speed? Many things to be considered.
We have enjoyed free highways for many years in the US. Maybe some private
toll roads would provide some competition and thus improve the roads
overall.
rj
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 10:16:03 AM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 01 July 2005 1:38 am
spamsucks@google.com wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:LsOdnUfSCO4sX1nfRVn-vQ@centurytel.net:
TV's stoney wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
By Daniel Sorid Thu Jun 30,10:00 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The next road you travel -- and pay a toll
to use -- could be privately owned.
Another front on the war on the common man. In a few years, only the
rich will be able to use the toll roads, while the rest of us will have
to sit in traffic on the old two-laners.
No, the point of the toll roads is to make the rich richer, not reward
them
with a private road. The idea of a private road for the rich is
ludicrous. I know of no person that would invest in that business model.
No, the whole idea is to have as many people as possible travel the toll
roads. The gas stations along the way, the shopping centers, and all the
rest are going to make a lot of people a lot of money.
Why is AOL so successful? Why is microsoft so successful? Why is Ford so
successful? They cater to the lowest denominator. The person with below
average intelligence. They offer a product that is affordable and simple
to use. So simple to use that a demented grandmother 85 years of age can
use it. Now if only the smart or rich or mandicapped can use a product,
then the market is very small and little money is to be made. Make it so
everyone can use it and billions will be made. Same with the toll road.
Your assertion that only the rich will be able to use the roads is wrong
and ridiculous.
What could be interesting is the issue of law enforcement on the proposed
toll roads. The federal goverment says that the top speed is XX, but who
is going to enforce the speed limits on a private road? Private cops?
What if that toll road charged $1.00 per mile but never issued a speeding
ticket? What would prevent someone from creating an Autobahn? What if a
private toll road had a high speed "express" lane and they charged extra
for unlimited speed? Many things to be considered.
We have enjoyed free highways for many years in the US. Maybe some
private toll roads would provide some competition and thus improve the
roads overall.
rj
There already are private toll roads in America. The East-West Expressway
in Orlando, Florida has been one for at least 20 years. As law enforcement
on that highway one has the City Police within the incorporated area, the
State Highway Patrol, and the County Sheriff's Office writing tickets.
It is a closed trust and it is difficult to prove who actually owns it. The
best guess was a consortium of Rockerfeller and friends. I haven't lived
there in 6 years so the actual ownership might be public knowledge by now.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
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| User: "Auntie Lib" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 01:12:50 PM |
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R. Pierce Butler wrote:
<snip>
We have enjoyed free highways for many years in the US.
They're by no means "free"! We pay for them through income taxes,
sales taxes, real estate taxes and gasoline taxes.
Maybe some private toll roads would provide some competition and thus
improve the roads overall.
What a fucking nightmare scenario this is. I'm getting a headache just
thinking about the maintenance, control and access problems that would
be the outcome of letting private companies own (and restrict?) what
should be public land. The only ownership of public roads should be
the public. Let the government - and by extension everyone - benefit
if they want to start charging. We already do it here in California
with the special Fast Pass lanes that you pay a monthly fee for. (Or
am I confused with Disneyland?) Just keep it in addition to - not
instead of - public roads.
The real solution is better public transportation and less ownership of
private vehicles. Yeah, I know... Hell. Brrrrr.
elizabeth
aa#2098
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"I was born with a skeptical mind. Now I ask you, is that fair?
If God gives me a skeptical nature and you an accepting one,
then you're going to be a believer and I'm not. If belief is a
ticket to eternal happiness, I'm definitely handicapped. God
gives me a mind capable of asking questions and what? I'm
damned if I use it?"
F. Paul Wilson "The Haunted Air"
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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| User: "magilla" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 10:42:23 AM |
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R. Pierce Butler wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:LsOdnUfSCO4sX1nfRVn-vQ@centurytel.net:
TV's stoney wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
By Daniel Sorid Thu Jun 30,10:00 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The next road you travel -- and pay a toll
to use -- could be privately owned.
Another front on the war on the common man. In a few years, only the
rich will be able to use the toll roads, while the rest of us will have
to sit in traffic on the old two-laners.
No, the point of the toll roads is to make the rich richer, not reward them
with a private road. The idea of a private road for the rich is ludicrous.
I know of no person that would invest in that business model.
snip
There is currently discussion in NY and NJ to make "premium lanes" in
the approaches to Manhattan- mainly the choke-points at the bridges and
tunnels. These would charge high fees via the EZ-Pass system. The idea
is to provide a super-express, non-HOV alternative to sitting in
traffic. Does that count as a private road for the rich? Or at least
the well-heeled?
Chris
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 01:38:35 AM |
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TV's R. Pierce Butler wrote:
No, the point of the toll roads is to make the rich richer, not reward
them
with a private road. The idea of a private road for the rich is
ludicrous.
I know of no person that would invest in that business model.
No, the whole idea is to have as many people as possible travel the toll
roads. The gas stations along the way, the shopping centers, and all the
rest are going to make a lot of people a lot of money.
Your assertion that only the rich will be able to use the roads is wrong
and ridiculous.
The middle class in this country is being squeezed out. If this keeps
happening, in the future the poor will simply not be able to afford to drive
on toll roads.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 09:01:04 AM |
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towelie wrote:
The middle class in this country is being squeezed out. If this keeps
happening, in the future the poor will simply not be able to afford to drive
on toll roads.
And when all the roads between point A and point B are private
toll roads?
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
30 Jun 2005 11:33:22 PM |
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On 30 Jun 2005, towelie dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
TV's stoney wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
By Daniel Sorid Thu Jun 30,10:00 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The next road you travel -- and pay a toll
to use -- could be privately owned.
Another front on the war on the common man. In a few years, only the
rich will be able to use the toll roads, while the rest of us will
have to sit in traffic on the old two-laners.
Until now, via the lane-sharing law, we Californians have the option of
buying a motorcycle and splitting lanes, leaving the droves of car drivers
far behind. It doesn't take a rich man to own a motorcycle, in fact it's
cheap as hell. I cut my gasoline bill by 60%, and my commuting time by 15
minutes each way. ***** toll roads. Take a chance with your life. You
only live once, who wants to spend it fighting traffic?
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think
there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading
around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and
praying to a rock."
[Howard Stern]
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 12:52:07 AM |
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Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote in
news:Xns9685DB7421026vicman@216.196.97.136:
On 30 Jun 2005, towelie dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
TV's stoney wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050630/ts_nm/bizhighways_dc
Congress seen paving way for private toll roads
By Daniel Sorid Thu Jun 30,10:00 AM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The next road you travel -- and pay a toll
to use -- could be privately owned.
Another front on the war on the common man. In a few years, only the
rich will be able to use the toll roads, while the rest of us will
have to sit in traffic on the old two-laners.
Until now, via the lane-sharing law, we Californians have the option of
buying a motorcycle and splitting lanes, leaving the droves of car
drivers far behind. It doesn't take a rich man to own a motorcycle, in
fact it's cheap as hell. I cut my gasoline bill by 60%, and my
commuting time by 15 minutes each way. ***** toll roads. Take a chance
with your life. You only live once, who wants to spend it fighting
traffic?
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
Sadly, not all states allow motorcycles to do that. I think motorcycles
are a great way to get around. Too bad there are so many do-gooders
sticking their noses into places where they don't belong.
I am restoring my 1981 Honda motorcycle. It was a nice ride then and it
still is. I don't think I am going to commute to work on it though.
Parts are too hard to find and securing it is an issue.
rj
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Congress seen paving way for private toll roads |
01 Jul 2005 09:50:46 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, R. Pierce Butler
(spamsucks@google.com) delivered this momentous dissertation:
Until now, via the lane-sharing law, we Californians have the option
of buying a motorcycle and splitting lanes, leaving the droves of car
drivers far behind. It doesn't take a rich man to own a motorcycle,
in fact it's cheap as hell. I cut my gasoline bill by 60%, and my
commuting time by 15 minutes each way. ***** toll roads. Take a
chance with your life. You only live once, who wants to spend it
fighting traffic?
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
Sadly, not all states allow motorcycles to do that. I think
motorcycles are a great way to get around. Too bad there are so many
do-gooders sticking their noses into places where they don't belong.
I keep forgetting about that, as I pass countless cars with out of state
plates. I almost got taken down in the rain by a guy with Florida
plates. I rapped on his window as I passed, hope I didn't give his old
wife a heart attack...
I am restoring my 1981 Honda motorcycle. It was a nice ride then and
it still is. I don't think I am going to commute to work on it
though. Parts are too hard to find and securing it is an issue.
I'm relatively new to the game, been riding a total of 2+ years. But
I've put 57,000 miles on two bikes in that span. Luckily I work the
studios in Hollywood, CA, which provide indoor security garages for a
nominal fee. Lately the garage I employ at Paramount has been lined with
chrome-coated Harleys - it's hard to find a space to slide into by 7am.
But with gas at $2.50+ a gallon and traffic the way it is, nothing else
makes sense in this crazy town, not even the Metrolink train. It took me
an hour to get home tonight. Had I driven a car, probably two hours in
the holiday traffic.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Plonked by Jason Gastrich for all eternity...
Lovingly plonked by Roger Pearse
______________
"I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't
think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and
parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face
white and praying to a rock." [Howard Stern]
.
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