| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Daniel Kolle" |
| Date: |
11 Jan 2005 06:42:02 PM |
| Object: |
OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
*sigh* Here we go again.
What is it with English teachers and that horrible, hideous
***** known as symbolism? Have they nothing better to do?
During my Honors English 11 class today, my pompous windbag of
a teacher began this elaborate lecture on some short story that we
read (the title eludes me).
"Blah poop flap THIS WAS EXACTLY WHAT THE AUTHOR MEANT blah
regurgitate foop," best described what I heard. I then asked the
teacher the following question:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
16 Jan 2005 12:32:57 AM |
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I had a very wise Creative Writing professor. He said "As for
symbolism, whenever someone asks if you meant this or that in your
writings, say 'Why, yes, I did!' They will think you are brilliant
because you meant what they perceive. Always take credit for what they
imagine."
Kermit
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
16 Jan 2005 02:06:08 PM |
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On 15 Jan 2005 22:32:57 -0800, thought
hard and said:
I had a very wise Creative Writing professor. He said "As for
symbolism, whenever someone asks if you meant this or that in your
writings, say 'Why, yes, I did!' They will think you are brilliant
because you meant what they perceive. Always take credit for what they
imagine."
Kermit
"Then there is the other secret. There isn't and symbolysm [sic]. The
sea is the sea. The old man is the old man. The boy is a boy and the
fish is a fish. The sharks are all sharks no better and no worse. All
the symbolism that people say is *****. What goes beyond is what you
see beyond when you know."
-Hemingway
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
.
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| User: "Tock" |
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| Title: Re: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 03:19:42 AM |
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I know what you mean . . . I always thought my time was being wasted in
class when they asked students to give their thoughts about symbolism in a
passage of literature and the instructor would nod approvingly to every bit
of lame bs she got in response.
I heard a wonderful interview with novelist Eudora Welty on PBS a while
back, and the interviewer made a favorable comment on her use of symbolism
in one of her stories where she wrote of an elderly southern gentleman who
put his black hat on the footpost of his bed, climbed in, and died (there
was a bit more, but you're getting the short version). Well, Eudora said,
"I'm sorry, but there is no symbolism in that passage. A southern
gentleman of that time always wore black hats, and when they went to bed
they always put it on the footpost of the bed. That's just what they did,
that's how I wrote the story, and there's no symbolism involved."
Ya, since then, she's been one of my faves . . .
--Tock
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| User: "BDK" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
11 Jan 2005 09:53:42 PM |
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In article <0jr8u0hm786tprb0kl28vsdf4se056rrhm@4ax.com>,
DKolle@hotmail.com says...
*sigh* Here we go again.
What is it with English teachers and that horrible, hideous
***** known as symbolism? Have they nothing better to do?
During my Honors English 11 class today, my pompous windbag of
a teacher began this elaborate lecture on some short story that we
read (the title eludes me).
"Blah poop flap THIS WAS EXACTLY WHAT THE AUTHOR MEANT blah
regurgitate foop," best described what I heard. I then asked the
teacher the following question:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
I had to write a book report on "Go Tell It On the Mountain", during
Junior year of HS. I ripped it big time, calling the main character,
"insane" for believing after his studly preacher daddy was busy screwing
around and not hiding it very well.
I got a D------- (7 minuses!) The teacher said she couldn't fail me,
since I had obviously read it. Then she lectured me about "gawd". I
rolled my eyes and she got pissed and said "Get Out!" She was hostile
towards me the rest of the year...I really thought it was funny.
BDK
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
11 Jan 2005 08:10:20 PM |
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On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
--
"Given that you exist and that you are aware of your situation and
surroundings, you will find yourself in a place which has conditions
exactly suitable to your being there. If the environment was
hostile or incompatible in some important way then you would not be
there in the first place. Therefore the suitability and seeming
perfection of your universe cannot be taken as evidence of anything
more than your existence in it."
- Edward Warren, "The naturalistic fallacy"
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
11 Jan 2005 08:19:05 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:pm19u0t6lthakf4egbe71fagp4jhbjhim5@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
And believe me, it's not always an easy job. I had thought myself a rather
good creative writer when I was a senior in high school. Imagine my
surprise to get a D+ on my first assignment in my first college creative
writing class. Out of curiousity, I turned in the exact same paper
(re-typed of course) to a different creative writing professor a semester or
so later. Guess what? I got an A-. That's when I learned how to "play the
game", as it were.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
11 Jan 2005 09:47:42 PM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:pm19u0t6lthakf4egbe71fagp4jhbjhim5@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
And believe me, it's not always an easy job. I had thought myself a rather
good creative writer when I was a senior in high school. Imagine my
surprise to get a D+ on my first assignment in my first college creative
writing class. Out of curiousity, I turned in the exact same paper
(re-typed of course) to a different creative writing professor a semester or
so later. Guess what? I got an A-. That's when I learned how to "play the
game", as it were.
I had to take second semester freshman English 3 times in college...I
kept dropping it because it was so hard to figure out how to write a
paper! The hard part is coming up with enough bs to fill a page...
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 03:37:07 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:47:42 GMT, J Forbes <jforbspam@fastmail.fm>
said in alt.atheism:
I had to take second semester freshman English 3 times in college...I
kept dropping it because it was so hard to figure out how to write a
paper! The hard part is coming up with enough bs to fill a page...
My problem was always the opposite. I always had to trim down to the
assigned length. Only the first paragraph was any problem - once the
words started to flow they almost never stopped.
And, when they did stop, I used Asimov's trick. I watched something
on TV that was so innocuous that my mind was almost totally unoccupied
with it. Cartoons or some stupid "here comes the BIG CLUE" mystery.
With a tape recorder at my side - my addition to his trick. An hour
or two of that and I had plenty to type. Some of it rambling and
disjointed, but it broke the log jam.
--
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an
old religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and
never has been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in
its simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of
madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 05:18:41 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 03:47:42 GMT, J Forbes <jforbspam@fastmail.fm>
said in alt.atheism:
I had to take second semester freshman English 3 times in
college...I
kept dropping it because it was so hard to figure out how to write a
paper! The hard part is coming up with enough bs to fill a page...
My problem was always the opposite. I always had to trim down to the
assigned length. Only the first paragraph was any problem - once the
words started to flow they almost never stopped.
And, when they did stop, I used Asimov's trick. I watched something
on TV that was so innocuous that my mind was almost totally
unoccupied
with it. Cartoons or some stupid "here comes the BIG CLUE" mystery.
Yeah. It was a trick. That's the ticket. Sure. Me too.
jwk
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 05:25:53 AM |
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TV's J Forbes wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:pm19u0t6lthakf4egbe71fagp4jhbjhim5@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
And believe me, it's not always an easy job. I had thought myself a
rather
good creative writer when I was a senior in high school. Imagine my
surprise to get a D+ on my first assignment in my first college creative
writing class. Out of curiousity, I turned in the exact same paper
(re-typed of course) to a different creative writing professor a semester
or
so later. Guess what? I got an A-. That's when I learned how to "play
the
game", as it were.
I had to take second semester freshman English 3 times in college...I
kept dropping it because it was so hard to figure out how to write a
paper! The hard part is coming up with enough bs to fill a page...
I agree. It seems the economical writing is frowned upon in college, but
essential in the real world.
--
"Shake says that books are from the devil, and that TV is twice as fast" -
Meatwad
"The Constitution was written on reefer by dudes with wooden teeth" - OG Loc
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 06:55:40 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 05:25:53 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
thought hard and said:
TV's J Forbes wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:pm19u0t6lthakf4egbe71fagp4jhbjhim5@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
And believe me, it's not always an easy job. I had thought myself a
rather
good creative writer when I was a senior in high school. Imagine my
surprise to get a D+ on my first assignment in my first college creative
writing class. Out of curiousity, I turned in the exact same paper
(re-typed of course) to a different creative writing professor a semester
or
so later. Guess what? I got an A-. That's when I learned how to "play
the
game", as it were.
I had to take second semester freshman English 3 times in college...I
kept dropping it because it was so hard to figure out how to write a
paper! The hard part is coming up with enough bs to fill a page...
I agree. It seems the economical writing is frowned upon in college, but
essential in the real world.
Brevity is looked down upon like some red-headed ***** step-child.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
.
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 03:27:42 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
But that's part of the fun
.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 05:23:33 AM |
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TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about the
given topic.
--
"Shake says that books are from the devil, and that TV is twice as fast" -
Meatwad
"The Constitution was written on reefer by dudes with wooden teeth" - OG Loc
aa #2133
ap #19
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 06:08:02 AM |
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"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34kflgF49lt1sU1@individual.net...
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about
the
given topic.
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 06:58:55 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:08:02 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> thought hard and said:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34kflgF49lt1sU1@individual.net...
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about
the
given topic.
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
Because they *know* better. After all, they did spend eight years in
school doing nothing at all.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
13 Jan 2005 02:10:58 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:58:55 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:08:02 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> thought hard and said:
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
Because they *know* better.
No, because you need the grade only they can give you to get your
degree.
Sometimes you have to forget idealism and be practical.
--
Zymurgist # 2
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
15 Jan 2005 07:31:55 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:08:02 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34kflgF49lt1sU1@individual.net...
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about
the
given topic.
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
/student
"SQWAK!!!!!."
/prof
"Good Polly. Here's a cracker!"
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
15 Jan 2005 07:34:48 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:31:55 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:08:02 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34kflgF49lt1sU1@individual.net...
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about
the
given topic.
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
/student
"SQWAK!!!!!."
/prof
"Good Polly. Here's a cracker!"
Polyglot - speaking parrot talk
Polygon - dead parrot
Polytheist - worships parrots
Polymath - parrot arithmetic
Polyandrous - having a parrot as spouse
Polythene - plastic parrot (see also Polystyrene)
Polymer - French simming parrot
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 09:00:08 AM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:34kflgF49lt1sU1@individual.net...
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about
the
given topic.
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
I must have been very fortunate. All of my college English teachers, and most
of my high school English teachers, asked only that we could defend our
interpretation. Two college professors were known for downgrading people who
merely parroted back what they said, with no sign of critical thinking on the
students' part.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"The President is merely the most important among a large number
of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to
the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct,
his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and
disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is
absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell
the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly
necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when
he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both
base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of
the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or
wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about
him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth,
pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
President Theodore Roosevelt, editorial to the Kansas City Star
May 7, 1918
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 09:12:16 AM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:41E53B78.6F780A9F@serv.net...
Robibnikoff wrote:
snip
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
I must have been very fortunate. All of my college English teachers, and
most
of my high school English teachers, asked only that we could defend our
interpretation. Two college professors were known for downgrading people
who
merely parroted back what they said, with no sign of critical thinking on
the
students' part.
You were extremely fortunate. I wish I'd had English professors like that
in college. It was very discouraging ;/
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
15 Jan 2005 07:32:46 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:12:16 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:41E53B78.6F780A9F@serv.net...
Robibnikoff wrote:
snip
And, in the case of most English professors, parrot back their particular
interpretation.
I must have been very fortunate. All of my college English teachers, and
most
of my high school English teachers, asked only that we could defend our
interpretation. Two college professors were known for downgrading people
who
merely parroted back what they said, with no sign of critical thinking on
the
students' part.
You were extremely fortunate. I wish I'd had English professors like that
in college. It was very discouraging ;/
/Prof
"Leggo, my Ego!"
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 09:14:04 AM |
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In our last episode <34kflgF49lt1sU1@individual.net>, towelie lept out of
the bushes shouting:
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the author? Has
she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?" She never did
bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to grade my
papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about
the given topic.
In *our schools? You know, learning about the subject is liable to get you
in hot water...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 03:39:26 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 05:23:33 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible about the
given topic.
That's assuming a teacher who has something to contribute - and those
are usually more involved with the subject than with their own egos.
Remember, even if all teachers were qualified to teach the particular
subject (or to teach, at all) - and it's been my experience that this
is FAR from the truth - half of all of them graduated in the bottom
50% of their classes.
--
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
12 Jan 2005 05:22:28 PM |
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towelie wrote:
TV's Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle
<DKolle@hotmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent
was?"
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she
begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
Your job, as a student, is NOT to show that you're smarter than
your
teacher, it's to pass courses. And you're failing at that job.
I would think his job as a student is to learn as much as possible
about the
given topic.
Wrong. That is his job once he starts working for a living. Coming
out of college all anyone will care about is his GPA. It is sad but
true. People who tell students that grades are unimportant and that
learning is the thing, are badly abusing those students.
jwk
It's been over twenty years since I was in college. I have a whole
professional life to tell employers what kind of employee I will be.
The idiots *still want to know what my GPA was. Morons.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
13 Jan 2005 02:55:26 AM |
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On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:42:02 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
wrote:
*sigh* Here we go again.
What is it with English teachers and that horrible, hideous
***** known as symbolism? Have they nothing better to do?
What could better exercise the intellect than considering ambiguities
of expression from a multitude of perspectives?
And isn't "horrible, hideous *****" a symbolic expression of the way
you feel about it?
<Or is your complaint tongue in cheek?>
How about this by A.E. Houseman:
With rue my heart is laden;
For golden friends I had,
For many a rose-lipt maiden
And many a lightfoot lad.
By streams too broad for leaping
The lightfoot boys are laid,
And the rose-lipt maids are sleeping,
In fields where roses fade.
Granted it might take an older, somewhat jaded human being to
understand the depth and breadth of the symbolism but it says a lot to
those of us who have earned the privilage.
During my Honors English 11 class today, my pompous windbag of
a teacher
More symbolism :-)
began this elaborate lecture on some short story that we
read (the title eludes me).
You may have missed something.
"Blah poop flap THIS WAS EXACTLY WHAT THE AUTHOR MEANT blah
regurgitate foop," best described what I heard. I then asked the
teacher the following question:
"And you know this how, exactly? How you talked with the
author? Has she come up to you and told exactly what her intent was?"
The author was talking to *her*
And it sounds as though she understood it.
She never did bother to reply. Score one for me... until she begins to
grade my papers! I was worth it though, I tell ya.
I disagree.
You may have had a momentary, somewhat pompous feeling of satisfaction
at your own cleverness but in the end you lose.
Not much of a trade off imo.
<No offense meant>
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
13 Jan 2005 05:56:33 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:55:26 GMT, thought hard and
said:
<snip>
My comments discussed really more on the topic that English teachers
often "find" *cough* symbolism when, almost all the time, there ain't
nothing much of substance there.
"The door is red."
"Why is the door red?"
"...Because I like red?"
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
13 Jan 2005 08:44:41 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:56:33 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:55:26 GMT, thought hard and
said:
<snip>
My comments discussed really more on the topic that English teachers
often "find" *cough* symbolism when, almost all the time, there ain't
nothing much of substance there.
"The door is red."
"Why is the door red?"
"...Because I like red?"
I think I understand.
Pretentious displays of pseudo-intellectual superiority?
I once saw a documentary on John lennon.
A young man had been discovered by Lennon's security team living in
the woods close to Lennon's house, brought him to the door and Lennon
had a conversation with him, answering the guy's questions about some
of his lyrics.
The young man asked about certain lines in certain songs and was very
confused when Lennon explained that they were meaningless but fit as
far as meter and rhyme and that in fact not only he but McCartney,
Dylan and many others used the same technique when writing.
How about this from Curt Cobain:
theres only one moment for living
I cant believe this
Well maybe,
But i dont think so
or maybe yes
i dont know
only you
theres only one moment for living
I cant believe this
I forgot,
A planted tree
or maybe not
i dont know
only you
theres only one moment for living
I cant believe this
Only you...
Is that deep or what ;-)
Or this:
I need an easy friend.
I do, with an ear to lend.
I do think you fit this shoe.
I do, won't you have a clue.
[Chorus]
I'll take advantage while.
You hang me out to dry.
But I can't see you every night, free.
The guy was a hit with a lot of people who considered him a poet.
I must be missing something.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
14 Jan 2005 06:28:09 PM |
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On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:44:41 GMT, thought hard and
said:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:56:33 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:55:26 GMT, thought hard and
said:
<snip>
My comments discussed really more on the topic that English teachers
often "find" *cough* symbolism when, almost all the time, there ain't
nothing much of substance there.
"The door is red."
"Why is the door red?"
"...Because I like red?"
I think I understand.
Pretentious displays of pseudo-intellectual superiority?
Yes.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
13 Jan 2005 05:47:14 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:55:26 GMT, thought hard and
said:
How about this by A.E. Houseman:
With rue my heart is laden;
For golden friends I had,
For many a rose-lipt maiden
And many a lightfoot lad.
By streams too broad for leaping
The lightfoot boys are laid,
And the rose-lipt maids are sleeping,
In fields where roses fade.
Oh, no, you did not! You did not just quote poetry to a WRITER. A
proser!
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: English Teachers and Symbolism |
13 Jan 2005 08:09:29 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:47:14 -0600, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:55:26 GMT, thought hard and
said:
How about this by A.E. Houseman:
With rue my heart is laden;
For golden friends I had,
For many a rose-lipt maiden
And many a lightfoot lad.
By streams too broad for leaping
The lightfoot boys are laid,
And the rose-lipt maids are sleeping,
In fields where roses fade.
Oh, no, you did not! You did not just quote poetry to a WRITER. A
proser!
Ahhh...
Post some.
I'd love to read it.
Have you read Countee Cullen?
All day long and all night through,
One thing only must I do:
Quench my pride and cool my blood,
Lest I perish in the flood,
Lest a hidden ember set
Timber that I thought was wet
Burning like the dryest fax,
Melting like the merest wax,
http://www.nku.edu/~diesmanj/cullen.html#heritage
atheist@home#1554
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