| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 04:11:08 AM |
| Object: |
OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
19 Feb 2004 07:15:40 AM |
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(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Migration OR immigration OR immigrant OR immigrants OR emigrant OR
emigrants OR migrant OR migrants
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Migration%20immigration%20immigrant%20immigrants%20emigrant%20emigrants%20migrant%20migrants&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
racial OR racially OR racism OR racist OR racists OR racial
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=racial%20racially%20racism%20racist%20racists%20racial&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
24 Feb 2004 04:42:07 AM |
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(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402190515.6d57c74d@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
Migration OR immigration OR immigrant OR immigrants OR emigrant OR
emigrants OR migrant OR migrants
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Migration%20immigration%20immigrant%20immigrants%20emigrant%20emigrants%20migrant%20migrants&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
racial OR racially OR racism OR racist OR racists OR racial
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=racial%20racially%20racism%20racist%20racists%20racial&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
.
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| User: "Marty Feldman" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
24 Feb 2004 02:17:49 PM |
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(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402240242.46b25a7f@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402190515.6d57c74d@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
further along, he goes on to say:
In the rhetoric of the modern liberal state, the glue of ethnicity
("people who look and talk like us") has been replaced with the glue
of values ("people who think and behave like us").
heh. sounds just like me.
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
24 Feb 2004 03:03:19 PM |
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(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402240242.46b25a7f@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402190515.6d57c74d@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
David Goodhart
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=David%20Goodhart&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Another rule for the Arabs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1121218,00.html
Robert Kilroy-Silk's outburst shows that there is one ethnic group
about whom it is apparently still OK to be flagrantly racist, writes
Brian Whitaker
Monday January 12, 2004
While sifting through my father's belongings after his death a few
years ago, I came across a book of autographs that he had collected as
a child. Some of the signatories had added short verses or quotations,
and on one page I found this:
God made the little ***** boys
He made them in the night
He made them in a hurry
And forgot to paint them white
In Britain during the 1930s, it was considered perfectly acceptable
(at least among white people) to write that sort of thing, and some
may even have found it amusing. In those days, of course, there were
not enough black people in Britain to challenge such attitudes, but we
have moved on and now have a multicultural society.
Migration OR immigration OR immigrant OR immigrants OR emigrant OR
emigrants OR migrant OR migrants
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Migration%20immigration%20immigrant%20immigrants%20emigrant%20emigrants%20migrant%20migrants&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
racial OR racially OR racism OR racist OR racists OR racial
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=racial%20racially%20racism%20racist%20racists%20racial&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
26 Feb 2004 05:43:04 AM |
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(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402241303.4e684a9@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402240242.46b25a7f@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402190515.6d57c74d@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
David Goodhart
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=David%20Goodhart&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
To insist on cultural integration is the exact opposite of racism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156377,00.html
Peter Hitchens
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
So there is such a thing as British society after all, and it is worth
preserving. Great thanks are due to David Goodhart, perhaps more
thanks than he wants, for grasping that a country cannot long retain
consent, freedom and order unless it defends and respects its own
culture.
Racism is our socialism of fools
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156382,00.html
Jeremy Seabrook
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
It is characteristic that the left (or progressives, as they now like
to be known) should have awakened so late from their ideological
sleep. They have only just noticed the dissolution of community, about
40 years after the reason for existence of places such as Burnley,
Smethwick or Bradford had vanished. These towns, called into being by
what they made in a national division of labour, lost their function
with the dispersal of the sites of industrialism across the globe.
'Find cohesion in human rights'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156374,00.html
Sarah Spencer
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Britain faces a challenge in developing a strong sense of common
citizenship, and migration is one dimension of that. It is easy to
overstate past uniformity, to suggest that social divisions were weak
enough to leave intact common values and a sense of mutuality only now
threatened by ethnic diversity. But did the Liverpool docker and home
counties lawyer of the class-ridden 1950s really share more life
experiences than an Indian and Scottish surgeon working in a
Birmingham hospital today?
Time to get to grips with Britishness
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156385,00.html
John Denham
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Diversity is a challenge to social solidarity, but there is nothing
inevitable or mechanical that links the scale of diversity with the
weakness of solidarity. We need to recognise that there are two rather
different problems, and we have ways of tackling both. Most of the
time, it's strangeness, the fear of the other, the unknown, that is
the problem, not diversity itself. David Goodhart mentions changing
attitudes towards homosexuality just briefly, but the change is
significant. Though the process is not complete, gays and lesbians
have moved from the excluded, feared and despised to a broad social
acceptance over a generation. The diversity has not changed, indeed,
it has become more obvious and explicit. It is the fear that has
diminished.
'We seem to have forgotten history'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156379,00.html
Saskia Sassen
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
What happens when we look at the history of immigration for clues
about what is a constraint and what is a possibility? Historical
demography shows us that all European societies have incorporated
foreign immigrant groups and that it has often taken no more than a
few generations to turn them into a community that can experience
solidarity.
'We depend on these workers'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156381,00.html
Hsiao-Hung Pai
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Have you ever had a conversation with a Nigerian NHS worker, an Asian
transport worker, a Bolivian cleaner? Have you ever looked at the face
of a "foreigner" while he pours your wine? From the welfare state to
your favourite restaurant, you depend on migrant workers. Unskilled
migrant workers are among the highest educated manual workforce in
Britain, and your wonderful country is not only unwilling to recognise
their contribution but also wants to avoid any social responsibility
while using their cheap labour.
'Migrants must buy into basics'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156380,00.html
Amitai Etzioni
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
I profoundly agree with David Goodhart's analysis of the issue and its
importance. The focus is indeed on the tension between old solidarity
and new diversity.
The multicultural approach - which prefers to abolish national
identities and replace them with a rainbow of tribes - is blind to the
lessons of multiethnic states (from Bosnia to Nigeria), in which
solidarity is too weak to sustain even a civil society. On the other
hand, the assimilation approach, which expects all immigrants to be
like the native citizens, is unnecessarily homogenising .
Another rule for the Arabs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1121218,00.html
Robert Kilroy-Silk's outburst shows that there is one ethnic group
about whom it is apparently still OK to be flagrantly racist, writes
Brian Whitaker
Monday January 12, 2004
While sifting through my father's belongings after his death a few
years ago, I came across a book of autographs that he had collected as
a child. Some of the signatories had added short verses or quotations,
and on one page I found this:
God made the little ***** boys
He made them in the night
He made them in a hurry
And forgot to paint them white
In Britain during the 1930s, it was considered perfectly acceptable
(at least among white people) to write that sort of thing, and some
may even have found it amusing. In those days, of course, there were
not enough black people in Britain to challenge such attitudes, but we
have moved on and now have a multicultural society.
Migration OR immigration OR immigrant OR immigrants OR emigrant OR
emigrants OR migrant OR migrants
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Migration+OR+immigration+OR+immigrant+OR+immigrants+OR+emigrant+OR+emigrants+OR+migrant+OR+migrants&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Migration%20immigration%20immigrant%20immigrants%20emigrant%20emigrants%20migrant%20migrants&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
racial OR racially OR racism OR racist OR racists OR racial
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+racial+OR+racially+OR+racism+OR+racist+OR+racists+OR+racial&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=racial%20racially%20racism%20racist%20racists%20racial&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
.
|
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| User: "Marty Feldman" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
26 Feb 2004 09:46:28 PM |
|
|
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402260343.5968e697@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402241303.4e684a9@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402240242.46b25a7f@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402190515.6d57c74d@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
David Goodhart
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=David%20Goodhart&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
To insist on cultural integration is the exact opposite of racism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156377,00.html
Peter Hitchens
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
So there is such a thing as British society after all, and it is worth
preserving. Great thanks are due to David Goodhart, perhaps more
thanks than he wants, for grasping that a country cannot long retain
consent, freedom and order unless it defends and respects its own
culture.
Racism is our socialism of fools
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156382,00.html
Jeremy Seabrook
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
It is characteristic that the left (or progressives, as they now like
to be known) should have awakened so late from their ideological
sleep. They have only just noticed the dissolution of community, about
40 years after the reason for existence of places such as Burnley,
Smethwick or Bradford had vanished. These towns, called into being by
what they made in a national division of labour, lost their function
with the dispersal of the sites of industrialism across the globe.
'Find cohesion in human rights'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156374,00.html
Sarah Spencer
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Britain faces a challenge in developing a strong sense of common
citizenship, and migration is one dimension of that. It is easy to
overstate past uniformity, to suggest that social divisions were weak
enough to leave intact common values and a sense of mutuality only now
threatened by ethnic diversity. But did the Liverpool docker and home
counties lawyer of the class-ridden 1950s really share more life
experiences than an Indian and Scottish surgeon working in a
Birmingham hospital today?
Time to get to grips with Britishness
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156385,00.html
John Denham
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Diversity is a challenge to social solidarity, but there is nothing
inevitable or mechanical that links the scale of diversity with the
weakness of solidarity. We need to recognise that there are two rather
different problems, and we have ways of tackling both. Most of the
time, it's strangeness, the fear of the other, the unknown, that is
the problem, not diversity itself. David Goodhart mentions changing
attitudes towards homosexuality just briefly, but the change is
significant. Though the process is not complete, gays and lesbians
have moved from the excluded, feared and despised to a broad social
acceptance over a generation. The diversity has not changed, indeed,
it has become more obvious and explicit. It is the fear that has
diminished.
'We seem to have forgotten history'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156379,00.html
Saskia Sassen
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
What happens when we look at the history of immigration for clues
about what is a constraint and what is a possibility? Historical
demography shows us that all European societies have incorporated
foreign immigrant groups and that it has often taken no more than a
few generations to turn them into a community that can experience
solidarity.
'We depend on these workers'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156381,00.html
Hsiao-Hung Pai
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Have you ever had a conversation with a Nigerian NHS worker, an Asian
transport worker, a Bolivian cleaner? Have you ever looked at the face
of a "foreigner" while he pours your wine? From the welfare state to
your favourite restaurant, you depend on migrant workers. Unskilled
migrant workers are among the highest educated manual workforce in
Britain, and your wonderful country is not only unwilling to recognise
their contribution but also wants to avoid any social responsibility
while using their cheap labour.
'Migrants must buy into basics'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156380,00.html
Amitai Etzioni
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
I profoundly agree with David Goodhart's analysis of the issue and its
importance. The focus is indeed on the tension between old solidarity
and new diversity.
The multicultural approach - which prefers to abolish national
identities and replace them with a rainbow of tribes - is blind to the
lessons of multiethnic states (from Bosnia to Nigeria), in which
solidarity is too weak to sustain even a civil society. On the other
hand, the assimilation approach, which expects all immigrants to be
like the native citizens, is unnecessarily homogenising .
i love this guy! i agree with much of what he's said. (if a dem wins
the election, they really should seek his advice before renegotiating
iraq.) sarah spencer comes next, and though i have issues with her
rationales, her sentiments are in the right direction. the rest of
the other commentaries is interesting but misguided.
it's funny. i suspected that by debating the common values (eg.
fairness and honesty) required of democracy and economic prosperity in
iraq, it would eventually boomerang back and sharpen the debate about
social fragmentation back home, with the added benefit of being able
to wield this multi-edged sword against the bush admin's dishonest
drumbeat for war. instead, leave it to the brits to pick up on it
while the american media obsesses over janet's boob, gay marriage, or
this hyper-fixation on anti-semitism. (btw, what about the
pro-semitism of neocons like perle, wolfowitz, feith, and that whole
project for a new american century, huh? perhaps this is another
reason why there's little debate about nation-building the middle
east, a debate that might greatly REDUCE anti-semitism over the long
term, because they are too busy bitching about nickel and dime
anti-semitic movies in the short-term?) i was hoping that by thinking
about iraq's democratic struggles, america might think about what's
wrong with her own democracy.
'Migrants must buy into basics'
Amitai Etzioni
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
I profoundly agree with David Goodhart's analysis of the issue and its
importance. The focus is indeed on the tension between old solidarity
and new diversity.
The multicultural approach - which prefers to abolish national
identities and replace them with a rainbow of tribes - is blind to the
lessons of multiethnic states (from Bosnia to Nigeria), in which
solidarity is too weak to sustain even a civil society. On the other
hand, the assimilation approach, which expects all immigrants to be
like the native citizens, is unnecessarily homogenising .
Hence I favour a third approach, formulated by a group of European
intellectuals (which I chaired). We called it Diversity within Unity.
Here, there are some basics which are sacrosanct, but other cultural
and social differences should be welcomed.
To the European majorities, we say: "We feel your pain." If several
families from ___ (fill in the blank) moved in next to our apartments,
they would give us pause, too. Many immigrants treat women and
children, the law, and much else in ways we find troubling. Their
conduct is not just different; it is wrong.
Immigrants who wish to become members of our communities must accept
certain basics: respect for human rights, democratic government, the
law, as well as a command of the language(s). But if immigrants buy
into the basics, there is no reason to protest if they eat and dance
differently, or pray to different gods.
At the same time, we reject the multicultural notion that we should
abolish societal identities to accommodate the sensibilities of the
newcomers. No society can flourish unless it has some shared values;
nor is there any reason to hold that the human rights which we insist
must be respected by people all over the world could be ignored in our
inner cities, or that the democratic way of life could be treated as
one option among many. Aside from being normatively unacceptable, such
concepts further inflame the majority's fears that immigrants will
destroy all that they hold dear.
.
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
27 Feb 2004 04:40:02 AM |
|
|
(Marty Feldman) wrote in message news:<e65c3393.0402261946.65feaf1a@posting.google.com>...
maff91@yahoo.com (maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402260343.5968e697@posting.google.com>...
maff91@yahoo.com (maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402241303.4e684a9@posting.google.com>...
maff91@yahoo.com (maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402240242.46b25a7f@posting.google.com>...
maff91@yahoo.com (maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402190515.6d57c74d@posting.google.com>...
maff91@yahoo.com (maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
David Goodhart
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=David%20Goodhart&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
To insist on cultural integration is the exact opposite of racism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156377,00.html
Peter Hitchens
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
So there is such a thing as British society after all, and it is worth
preserving. Great thanks are due to David Goodhart, perhaps more
thanks than he wants, for grasping that a country cannot long retain
consent, freedom and order unless it defends and respects its own
culture.
Racism is our socialism of fools
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156382,00.html
Jeremy Seabrook
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
It is characteristic that the left (or progressives, as they now like
to be known) should have awakened so late from their ideological
sleep. They have only just noticed the dissolution of community, about
40 years after the reason for existence of places such as Burnley,
Smethwick or Bradford had vanished. These towns, called into being by
what they made in a national division of labour, lost their function
with the dispersal of the sites of industrialism across the globe.
'Find cohesion in human rights'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156374,00.html
Sarah Spencer
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Britain faces a challenge in developing a strong sense of common
citizenship, and migration is one dimension of that. It is easy to
overstate past uniformity, to suggest that social divisions were weak
enough to leave intact common values and a sense of mutuality only now
threatened by ethnic diversity. But did the Liverpool docker and home
counties lawyer of the class-ridden 1950s really share more life
experiences than an Indian and Scottish surgeon working in a
Birmingham hospital today?
Time to get to grips with Britishness
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156385,00.html
John Denham
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Diversity is a challenge to social solidarity, but there is nothing
inevitable or mechanical that links the scale of diversity with the
weakness of solidarity. We need to recognise that there are two rather
different problems, and we have ways of tackling both. Most of the
time, it's strangeness, the fear of the other, the unknown, that is
the problem, not diversity itself. David Goodhart mentions changing
attitudes towards homosexuality just briefly, but the change is
significant. Though the process is not complete, gays and lesbians
have moved from the excluded, feared and despised to a broad social
acceptance over a generation. The diversity has not changed, indeed,
it has become more obvious and explicit. It is the fear that has
diminished.
'We seem to have forgotten history'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156379,00.html
Saskia Sassen
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
What happens when we look at the history of immigration for clues
about what is a constraint and what is a possibility? Historical
demography shows us that all European societies have incorporated
foreign immigrant groups and that it has often taken no more than a
few generations to turn them into a community that can experience
solidarity.
'We depend on these workers'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156381,00.html
Hsiao-Hung Pai
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Have you ever had a conversation with a Nigerian NHS worker, an Asian
transport worker, a Bolivian cleaner? Have you ever looked at the face
of a "foreigner" while he pours your wine? From the welfare state to
your favourite restaurant, you depend on migrant workers. Unskilled
migrant workers are among the highest educated manual workforce in
Britain, and your wonderful country is not only unwilling to recognise
their contribution but also wants to avoid any social responsibility
while using their cheap labour.
'Migrants must buy into basics'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156380,00.html
Amitai Etzioni
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
I profoundly agree with David Goodhart's analysis of the issue and its
importance. The focus is indeed on the tension between old solidarity
and new diversity.
The multicultural approach - which prefers to abolish national
identities and replace them with a rainbow of tribes - is blind to the
lessons of multiethnic states (from Bosnia to Nigeria), in which
solidarity is too weak to sustain even a civil society. On the other
hand, the assimilation approach, which expects all immigrants to be
like the native citizens, is unnecessarily homogenising .
i love this guy! i agree with much of what he's said. (if a dem wins
the election, they really should seek his advice before renegotiating
iraq.) sarah spencer comes next, and though i have issues with her
rationales, her sentiments are in the right direction. the rest of
the other commentaries is interesting but misguided.
it's funny. i suspected that by debating the common values (eg.
fairness and honesty) required of democracy and economic prosperity in
iraq, it would eventually boomerang back and sharpen the debate about
social fragmentation back home, with the added benefit of being able
to wield this multi-edged sword against the bush admin's dishonest
drumbeat for war. instead, leave it to the brits to pick up on it
while the american media obsesses over janet's boob, gay marriage, or
this hyper-fixation on anti-semitism. (btw, what about the
pro-semitism of neocons like perle, wolfowitz, feith, and that whole
project for a new american century, huh? perhaps this is another
reason why there's little debate about nation-building the middle
east, a debate that might greatly REDUCE anti-semitism over the long
term, because they are too busy bitching about nickel and dime
anti-semitic movies in the short-term?) i was hoping that by thinking
about iraq's democratic struggles, america might think about what's
wrong with her own democracy.
So Guantanamo and Belmarsh are part of our common values?
'Migrants must buy into basics'
Amitai Etzioni
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
I profoundly agree with David Goodhart's analysis of the issue and its
importance. The focus is indeed on the tension between old solidarity
and new diversity.
The multicultural approach - which prefers to abolish national
identities and replace them with a rainbow of tribes - is blind to the
lessons of multiethnic states (from Bosnia to Nigeria), in which
solidarity is too weak to sustain even a civil society. On the other
hand, the assimilation approach, which expects all immigrants to be
like the native citizens, is unnecessarily homogenising .
Hence I favour a third approach, formulated by a group of European
intellectuals (which I chaired). We called it Diversity within Unity.
Here, there are some basics which are sacrosanct, but other cultural
and social differences should be welcomed.
To the European majorities, we say: "We feel your pain." If several
families from ___ (fill in the blank) moved in next to our apartments,
they would give us pause, too. Many immigrants treat women and
children, the law, and much else in ways we find troubling. Their
conduct is not just different; it is wrong.
Immigrants who wish to become members of our communities must accept
certain basics: respect for human rights, democratic government, the
law, as well as a command of the language(s). But if immigrants buy
into the basics, there is no reason to protest if they eat and dance
differently, or pray to different gods.
At the same time, we reject the multicultural notion that we should
abolish societal identities to accommodate the sensibilities of the
newcomers. No society can flourish unless it has some shared values;
nor is there any reason to hold that the human rights which we insist
must be respected by people all over the world could be ignored in our
inner cities, or that the democratic way of life could be treated as
one option among many. Aside from being normatively unacceptable, such
concepts further inflame the majority's fears that immigrants will
destroy all that they hold dear.
.
|
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|
| User: "Marty Feldman" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
27 Feb 2004 10:12:04 PM |
|
|
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402270240.27c15467@posting.google.com>...
n2themiddle@aol.com (Marty Feldman) wrote in message news:<e65c3393.0402261946.65feaf1a@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402260343.5968e697@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402241303.4e684a9@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402240242.46b25a7f@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402190515.6d57c74d@posting.google.com>...
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0402160211.64c15b00@posting.google.com>...
Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1148847,00.html
Some liberals have given up on the idea of a multi-ethnic Britain
Trevor Phillips
Monday February 16, 2004
The Guardian
Nice people do racism too. Liberal commitment to a multi-ethnic
Britain is wilting. Some very nice folk have apparently decided that
the nation's real problem is too many immigrants of too many kinds.
Faced with a daily onslaught against migrants it may be understandable
to give in to populist bigotry; but it is not forgivable.
xenophobia OR ethnic OR xenophobes OR xenophobe
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+xenophobia+OR+ethnic+OR+xenophobes+OR+xenophobe&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=xenophobia%20ethnic%20xenophobes%20xenophobe&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Trevor Phillips
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Trevor+Phillips%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Trevor%20Phillips&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Close the door before it's too late
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1151091,00.html
Defensive anti-racists can't be allowed to stifle the debate on the
dangers of mass migration
David Goodhart
Thursday February 19, 2004
The Guardian
Is it possible to be a progressive and yet have reservations about
mass immigration? For labour market reasons, the left in America, and
most African-Americans, have long been opposed to mass immigration,
while the free-market right is now enthusiastically in favour.
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
David Goodhart
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22David+Goodhart%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=David%20Goodhart&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
To insist on cultural integration is the exact opposite of racism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156377,00.html
Peter Hitchens
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
So there is such a thing as British society after all, and it is worth
preserving. Great thanks are due to David Goodhart, perhaps more
thanks than he wants, for grasping that a country cannot long retain
consent, freedom and order unless it defends and respects its own
culture.
Racism is our socialism of fools
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156382,00.html
Jeremy Seabrook
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
It is characteristic that the left (or progressives, as they now like
to be known) should have awakened so late from their ideological
sleep. They have only just noticed the dissolution of community, about
40 years after the reason for existence of places such as Burnley,
Smethwick or Bradford had vanished. These towns, called into being by
what they made in a national division of labour, lost their function
with the dispersal of the sites of industrialism across the globe.
'Find cohesion in human rights'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156374,00.html
Sarah Spencer
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Britain faces a challenge in developing a strong sense of common
citizenship, and migration is one dimension of that. It is easy to
overstate past uniformity, to suggest that social divisions were weak
enough to leave intact common values and a sense of mutuality only now
threatened by ethnic diversity. But did the Liverpool docker and home
counties lawyer of the class-ridden 1950s really share more life
experiences than an Indian and Scottish surgeon working in a
Birmingham hospital today?
Time to get to grips with Britishness
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156385,00.html
John Denham
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Diversity is a challenge to social solidarity, but there is nothing
inevitable or mechanical that links the scale of diversity with the
weakness of solidarity. We need to recognise that there are two rather
different problems, and we have ways of tackling both. Most of the
time, it's strangeness, the fear of the other, the unknown, that is
the problem, not diversity itself. David Goodhart mentions changing
attitudes towards homosexuality just briefly, but the change is
significant. Though the process is not complete, gays and lesbians
have moved from the excluded, feared and despised to a broad social
acceptance over a generation. The diversity has not changed, indeed,
it has become more obvious and explicit. It is the fear that has
diminished.
'We seem to have forgotten history'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156379,00.html
Saskia Sassen
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
What happens when we look at the history of immigration for clues
about what is a constraint and what is a possibility? Historical
demography shows us that all European societies have incorporated
foreign immigrant groups and that it has often taken no more than a
few generations to turn them into a community that can experience
solidarity.
'We depend on these workers'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156381,00.html
Hsiao-Hung Pai
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
Have you ever had a conversation with a Nigerian NHS worker, an Asian
transport worker, a Bolivian cleaner? Have you ever looked at the face
of a "foreigner" while he pours your wine? From the welfare state to
your favourite restaurant, you depend on migrant workers. Unskilled
migrant workers are among the highest educated manual workforce in
Britain, and your wonderful country is not only unwilling to recognise
their contribution but also wants to avoid any social responsibility
while using their cheap labour.
'Migrants must buy into basics'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1156380,00.html
Amitai Etzioni
Thursday February 26, 2004
The Guardian
I profoundly agree with David Goodhart's analysis of the issue and its
importance. The focus is indeed on the tension between old solidarity
and new diversity.
The multicultural approach - which prefers to abolish national
identities and replace them with a rainbow of tribes - is blind to the
lessons of multiethnic states (from Bosnia to Nigeria), in which
solidarity is too weak to sustain even a civil society. On the other
hand, the assimilation approach, which expects all immigrants to be
like the native citizens, is unnecessarily homogenising .
i love this guy! i agree with much of what he's said. (if a dem wins
the election, they really should seek his advice before renegotiating
iraq.) sarah spencer comes next, and though i have issues with her
rationales, her sentiments are in the right direction. the rest of
the other commentaries is interesting but misguided.
it's funny. i suspected that by debating the common values (eg.
fairness and honesty) required of democracy and economic prosperity in
iraq, it would eventually boomerang back and sharpen the debate about
social fragmentation back home, with the added benefit of being able
to wield this multi-edged sword against the bush admin's dishonest
drumbeat for war. instead, leave it to the brits to pick up on it
while the american media obsesses over janet's boob, gay marriage, or
this hyper-fixation on anti-semitism. (btw, what about the
pro-semitism of neocons like perle, wolfowitz, feith, and that whole
project for a new american century, huh? perhaps this is another
reason why there's little debate about nation-building the middle
east, a debate that might greatly REDUCE anti-semitism over the long
term, because they are too busy bitching about nickel and dime
anti-semitic movies in the short-term?) i was hoping that by thinking
about iraq's democratic struggles, america might think about what's
wrong with her own democracy.
So Guantanamo and Belmarsh are part of our common values?
from what i've read, no it isn't.
.
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|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Marty Feldman" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Genteel xenophobia is as bad as any other kind |
24 Feb 2004 01:31:43 PM |
|
|
Discomfort of strangers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154650,00.html
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk
i'll need this for reference later on:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9115,1154687,00.html
Discomfort of strangers
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk Read the second part of David
Goodhart's essay here
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Britain in the 50s was a country stratified by class and region. But
in most of its cities, suburbs, towns and villages there was a good
chance of predicting the attitudes, even the behaviour, of the people
living in your immediate neighbourhood.
In many parts of Britain today that is no longer true. The country has
long since ceased to be Orwell's "family" (albeit with the wrong
members in charge).
To some people this is a cause of regret and disorientation - a change
that they associate with the growing incivility of modern urban life.
To others it is a sign of the inevitable, and welcome, march of
modernity. After three centuries of homogenisation through
industrialisation, urbanisation, nation-building and war, the British
have become freer and more varied. Fifty years of peace, wealth and
mobility have allowed a greater diversity in lifestyles and values. To
this "value diversity" has been added ethnic diversity through two big
waves of immigration: the mainly Commonwealth immigration from the
West Indies and Asia in the 1950s and 1960s, followed by asylum-driven
migrants from Europe, Africa and the greater Middle East in the late
1990s.
The diversity, individualism and mobility that characterise developed
economies - especially in the era of globalisation - mean that more of
our lives is spent among strangers. Ever since the invention of
agriculture 10,000 years ago, humans have been used to dealing with
people from beyond their own extended kin groups. The difference now
in a developed country such as Britain is that we not only live among
stranger citizens but we must share with them. We share public
services and parts of our income in the welfare state, we share public
spaces in towns and cities where we are squashed together on buses,
trains and tubes, and we share in a democratic conversation - filtered
by the media - about the collective choices we wish to make. All such
acts of sharing are more smoothly and generously negotiated if we can
take for granted a limited set of common values and assumptions. But
as Britain becomes more diverse that common culture is being eroded.
And therein lies one of the central dilemmas of political life in
developed societies: sharing and solidarity can conflict with
diversity. This is an especially acute dilemma for progressives who
want plenty of both solidarity (high social cohesion and generous
welfare paid out of a progressive tax system) and diversity (equal
respect for a wide range of peoples, values and ways of life). The
tension between the two values is a reminder that serious politics is
about trade-offs. It also suggests that the left's recent love affair
with diversity may come at the expense of the values and even the
people that it once championed.
It was the Conservative politician David Willetts who drew my
attention to the "progressive dilemma". Speaking at a roundtable on
welfare reform, he said: "The basis on which you can extract large
sums of money in tax and pay it out in benefits is that most people
think the recipients are people like themselves, facing difficulties
that they themselves could face. If values become more diverse, if
lifestyles become more differentiated, then it becomes more difficult
to sustain the legitimacy of a universal risk-pooling welfare state.
People ask: 'Why should I pay for them when they are doing things that
I wouldn't do?' This is America versus Sweden. You can have a Swedish
welfare state provided that you are a homogeneous society with
intensely shared values. In the United States you have a very diverse,
individualistic society where people feel fewer obligations to fellow
citizens. Progressives want diversity, but they thereby undermine part
of the moral consensus on which a large welfare state rests."
These words alerted me to how the progressive dilemma lurks beneath
many aspects of current politics: national tax and redistribution
policies; the asylum and immigration debate; development aid budgets;
European Union integration and spending on the poorer southern and
east European states; and even the tensions between America (built on
political ideals and mass immigration) and Europe (based on nation
states with core ethnic-linguistic solidarities).
Thinking about the conflict between solidarity and diversity is
another way of asking a question as old as human society itself: who
is my brother, with whom do I share mutual obligations? The
traditional conservative, Burkean view is that our affinities ripple
out from our families and localities to the nation, and not very far
beyond. That view is pitted against a liberal universalist one that
sees us in some sense equally obligated to all human beings, from
Bolton to Burundi - an idea that is associated with the universalist
aspects of Christianity and Islam, with Kantian universalism and with
left-wing internationalism. Science is neutral in this dispute, or
rather it stands on both sides of the argument. Evolutionary
psychology stresses both the universality of most human traits and -
through the notion of kin selection and reciprocal altruism - the
instinct to favour our own. Social psychologists also argue that the
tendency to perceive in-groups and out-groups, however ephemeral, is
innate. In any case, Burkeans claim to have common sense on their
side. They argue that we feel more comfortable with, and are readier
to share with and sacrifice for, those with whom we have shared
histories and similar values. To put it bluntly - most of us prefer
our own kind.
The category "own kind", or in-group, will set alarm bells ringing in
the minds of many readers. So it is worth stressing what preferring
our own kind does not mean, even for a Burkean. It does not mean that
we are necessarily hostile to other kinds or that we cannot empathise
with outsiders. (There are those who do dislike other kinds, but in
Britain they seem to be quite a small minority.) In complex societies,
most of us belong simultaneously to many in-groups - family,
profession, class, hobby, locality, nation - and an ability to move
with ease between groups is a sign of maturity. An in-group is not,
except in the case of families, a natural or biological category and
the people who are deemed to belong to it can change quickly, as we
saw so disastrously in Bosnia. Certainly, those we include in our
in-group could be a pretty diverse crowd, especially in a city such as
London.
Moreover, modern liberal societies cannot be based on a simple
assertion of group identity - the very idea of the rule of law, of
equal legal treatment for everyone regardless of religion, wealth,
gender or ethnicity, conflicts with it. On the other hand, if you deny
the assumption that humans are social, group-based primates with
constraints, however imprecise, on their willingness to share, you
find yourself having to defend some implausible positions: for
example, that we should spend as much on development aid as on the
NHS, or that Britain should have no immigration controls at all. The
implicit "calculus of affinity" in media reporting of disasters is
easily mocked - two dead Britons will get the same space as 200
Spaniards or 2,000 Somalis. Yet every day we make similar calculations
in the distribution of our own resources. Even a well-off,
liberal-minded Briton who already donates to charities will spend,
say, £200 on a child's birthday party, knowing that such money could,
in the right hands, save the life of a child in the third world. The
extent of our obligation to those to whom we are not connected through
either kinship or citizenship is in part a purely private, charitable
decision. But it also has policy implications, and not just in the
field of development aid. For example, significant NHS resources are
spent each year on foreign visitors, especially in London. Many of us
might agree in theory that the needs of desperate outsiders are often
greater than our own. But we would object if our own parent or child
received inferior treatment because of resources consumed by
non-citizens.
Is it possible to reconcile these observations about human preferences
with our increasingly open, fluid and value-diverse societies? At one
level, yes. Our liberal democracies still work fairly well; indeed it
is one of the achievements of modernity that people have learned to
tolerate and share with people very unlike themselves. (Until the 20th
century, today's welfare state would have been considered contrary to
human nature.) On the other hand, the logic of solidarity, with its
tendency to draw boundaries, and the logic of diversity, with its
tendency to cross them, do at times pull apart. Thanks to the erosion
of collective norms and identities, in particular of class and nation,
and the recent surge of immigration into Europe, this may be such a
time.
The modern idea of citizenship goes some way to accommodating the
tension between solidarity and diversity. Citizenship is not an
ethnic, blood-and-soil concept, but a more abstract political idea -
implying equal legal, political and social rights (and duties) for
people inhabiting a given national space. But citizenship is not just
an abstract idea about rights and duties; for most of us it is
something we do not choose but are born into - it arises out of a
shared history, shared experiences and, often, shared suffering; as
the American writer Alan Wolfe puts it: "Behind every citizen lies a
graveyard."
Both aspects of citizenship imply a notion of mutual obligation.
Critics have argued that this idea of national community is
anachronistic - swept away by globalisation, individualism and
migration - but it still has political resonance. When politicians
talk about the "British people" they refer not just to a set of
individuals with specific rights and duties, but to a group of people
with a special commitment to one another. Membership of such a
community implies acceptance of moral rules, however fuzzy, that
underpin the laws and welfare systems of the state.
In the rhetoric of the modern liberal state, the glue of ethnicity
("people who look and talk like us") has been replaced with the glue
of values ("people who think and behave like us"). But British values
grow, in part, out of a specific history and even geography. Too rapid
a change in the make-up of a community not only changes the present,
it also, potentially, changes our link with the past. As Bob Rowthorn
wrotein Prospect in February 2003, we may lose a sense of
responsibility for our own history - the good things as well as the
shameful things in it - if too many citizens no longer identify with
it.
Is this a problem? Surely Britain in 2004 has become too diverse and
complex to give expression to a common culture in the present, let
alone the past. Diversity in this context is usually code for ethnic
difference. But that is only one part of the diversity story, albeit
the easiest to quantify and most emotionally charged. The progressive
dilemma is also revealed in the value and generational rifts that
emerged with such force in the 1960s. At the Prospect roundtable
mentioned above, Patricia Hewitt, now secretary of state for trade and
industry, recalled an example of generational conflict from her
Leicester constituency. She was canvassing on a council estate when an
elderly white couple saw her Labour rosette and one of them said:
"We're not voting Labour - you hand taxpayers' money to our daughter."
She apparently lived on a nearby estate, with three children all by
different fathers, and her parents had cut her off (evidence that even
close genetic ties do not always produce solidarity).
Greater diversity can produce real conflicts of values and interests,
but it also generates unjustified fears. Exposure to a wider spread of
lifestyles, plus more mobility and better education, has helped to
combat some of those fears - a trend reinforced by popular culture and
the expansion of higher education (graduates are notably more tolerant
than non-graduates). There is less overt homophobia, sexism or racism
(and much more racial intermarriage) in Britain than 30 years ago and
racial discrimination is the most politically sensitive form of
unfairness. But 31% of people still admit to being racially
prejudiced. Researchers such as Isaac Marks at London's Institute of
Psychiatry warn that it is not possible to neatly divide the
population between a small group of xenophobes and the rest. Feelings
of suspicion and hostility towards outsiders are latent in most of us.
The visibility of ethnic difference means that it often overshadows
other forms of diversity. Changes in the ethnic composition of a city
or neighbourhood can come to stand for the wider changes of modern
life. Some expressions of racism, especially by old people, can be
read as declarations of dismay at the passing of old ways of life
(though this makes it no less unpleasant to be on the receiving end).
The different appearance of many immigrants is an outward reminder
that they are, at least initially, strangers. If welfare states demand
that we pay into a common fund on which we can all draw at times of
need, it is important that we feel that most people have made the same
effort to be self-supporting and will not take advantage. We need to
be reassured that strangers, especially those from other countries,
have the same idea of reciprocity as we do. Absorbing outsiders into a
community that is worthy of the name takes time.
Negotiating the tension between solidarity and diversity is at the
heart of politics. But both left and right have, for different
reasons, downplayed the issue. The left is reluctant to acknowledge a
conflict between values it cherishes; it is ready to stress the
erosion of community from "bad" forms of diversity, such as market
individualism, but not from "good" forms of diversity, such as sexual
freedom and immigration. And the right, in Britain at least, has
sidestepped the conflict, partly because it is less interested in
solidarity than the left, but also because it is still trying to prove
that it is comfortable with diversity.
But is there any hard evidence that the progressive dilemma actually
exists in the real world of political and social choices? In most EU
states the percentage of GDP taken in tax is still at historically
high levels, despite the increase in diversity of all kinds. Yet it is
also true that Scandinavian countries with the biggest welfare states
have been the most socially and ethnically homogeneous states in the
west. By the same token, the welfare state has always been weaker in
the individualistic, ethnically divided US compared with more
homogeneous Europe. And the three bursts of welfarist legislation that
the US did see - Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, Harry Truman's Fair
Deal and Lyndon Johnson's Great Society - came during the long pause
in mass immigration between the first world war and 1968. (They were
also, clearly, a response to the depression and to two world wars.)
In their 2001 Harvard Institute of Economic Research paper "Why
Doesn't the US Have a European-style Welfare State?", Alberto Alesina,
Edward Glaeser and Bruce Sacerdote argue that the answer is that too
many people at the bottom of the pile in the US are black or Hispanic.
Across the US as a whole, 70% of the population are non-Hispanic
whites - but of those in poverty only 46% are non-Hispanic whites. So
a disproportionate amount of tax income spent on welfare is going to
minorities. The paper also finds that US states that are more
ethnically fragmented than average spend less on social services. The
authors conclude that Americans think of the poor as members of a
different group, whereas Europeans still think of the poor as members
of the same group. Robert Putnam, the analyst of social capital, has
also found a link between high ethnic mix and low trust in the US.
There is some British evidence supporting this link, too. Researchers
at Mori found that the average level of satisfaction with local
authorities declines steeply as the extent of ethnic fragmentation
increases. Even allowing for the fact that areas of high ethnic mix
tend to be poorer, Mori found that ethnic fractionalisation still had
a substantial negative impact on attitudes to local government.
Finally, Sweden and Denmark may provide a social laboratory for the
solidarity/diversity trade-off in the coming years. Starting from
similar positions as homogeneous countries with high levels of
redistribution, they have taken rather different approaches to
immigration over the past few years. Although both countries place
great stress on integrating outsiders, Sweden has adopted a moderately
multicultural outlook. It has also adapted its economy somewhat,
reducing job protection for older native males in order to create more
low-wage jobs for immigrants in the public sector. About 12% of Swedes
are now foreign-born, and it is expected that by 2015 about 25% of
under-18s will be either foreign-born or the children of the
foreign-born. This is a radical change and Sweden is adapting to it
rather well. (The first clips of mourning Swedes after the murder of
the foreign minister Anna Lindh were of crying immigrants expressing
their sorrow in perfect Swedish.) But not all Swedes are happy about
it.
Denmark has a more restrictive and "nativist" approach to immigration.
Only 6% of the population is foreign-born, and native Danes enjoy
superior welfare benefits to incomers. If the solidarity/diversity
trade-off is a real one and current trends continue, then one would
expect in, say, 20 years that Sweden will have a less redistributive
welfare state than Denmark; or rather that Denmark will have a more
developed two-tier welfare state with higher benefits for insiders,
while Sweden will have a universal but less generous system.
What are the main objections, at least from the left, to this argument
about solidarity and diversity? Multiculturalists stress Britain's
multiple diversities, of class and region, that preceded recent waves
of immigration. They also argue that all humans share similar needs
and a common interest in ensuring that they are met with minimum
conflict; this, they say, can now be done through human rights laws.
And hostility to diversity, they conclude, is usually a form of "false
consciousness".
Critics of the dilemma also say, rightly, that the moral norms
underpinning a community need not be hard for outsiders to comply
with: broad common standards of right and wrong, some agreement on the
nature of marriage and the family, respect for law and some consensus
about the role of religion in public life. Moreover, they add, there
are places such as Canada (even Australia) that are happily combining
European-style welfare with an officially multicultural politics.
London, too, has American levels of ethnic diversity but is the most
leftwing part of Britain.
In the autumn 2003 issue of the US magazine Dissent, two academics,
Keith Banting and Will Kymlicka, show that there is no link between
the adoption of multiculturalist policies in countries such as Canada,
Sweden and Britain and the erosion of the welfare state.
But many of the policies they describe are either too technical
(allowing dual citizenship) or too anodyne (the existence of a
government body to consult minorities) to stimulate serious tax
resistance. They also assume too swift a reaction to growing diversity
- these are forces that take effect over decades, if not over
generations.
Similarly, two British academics, Bhikhu Parekh and Ali Rattansi, have
offered a critique of the solidarity v diversity thesis (partly in
response to Prospect articles) that also assumes an implausibly rapid
connection between social cause and effect. They argue that because
the expansion of Britain's welfare state in the late 40s coincided
with the first big wave of non-white immigration into Britain, ethnic
diversity cannot be a drag on social solidarity. But the post-1945
welfare state was the result of at least 100 years of experience and
agitation. The arrival of a small number of immigrants in the 40s and
50s was unlikely to have much bearing on that history. Parekh,
Kymlicka and others also argue that labour movement strength, not
ethnic homogeneity, is the best indicator of the size of a welfare
state. But labour movements themselves are stronger where there are no
significant religious or ethnic divisions. In any case, we are not
concerned here with the formation of welfare states so much as with
their continued flourishing today.
A further point made by the multiculturalists is more telling. They
argue that a single national story is not a sound base for a common
culture because it has always been contested by class, region and
religion. In Britain, the left traces democracy back to the peasants'
revolt, the right back to Magna Carta, and so on. But while that is
true, it is also the case that these different stories refer to a
shared history. This does not imply a single narrative or national
identity any more than a husband and wife will describe their married
life together in the same way. Nor does it mean that the stress on the
binding force of a shared history (or historical institutions such as
parliament) condemns immigrants to a second-class citizenship.
Newcomers can and should adopt the history of their new country as
well as, over time, contributing to it - moving from immigrant "them"
to citizen "us". Helpfully, Britain's story includes, through empire,
the story of many of our immigrant groups - empire soldiers, for
example, fought in many of the wars that created modern Britain.
I would add a further qualification to the progressive dilemma.
Attitudes to welfare have, for many people, become more instrumental:
I pay so much in, the state gives me this in return. As we grow
richer, the ties that used to bind workers together in a risk-pooling
welfare state (first locally, later nationally) have loosened -
"generosity" is more abstract and compulsory, a matter of enlightened
self-interest rather than mutual obligation. Moreover, welfare is less
redistributive than most people imagine - most of the tax paid out by
citizens comes back to them in one form or another so the amount of
the average person's income going to someone they might consider
undeserving is small. This, however, does little to allay anxieties
based on perceptions rather than fiscal truths. And poor whites, who
have relatively little, are more likely to resent even small transfers
compared with those on higher incomes.
Despite these qualifications, it still seems to me that those who
value solidarity should take care that it is not eroded by a refusal
to acknowledge the constraints upon it. The politician who has
recently laid most stress on those constraints, especially in relation
to immigration, is the home secretary, David Blunkett. He has spoken
about the need for more integration of some immigrant communities -
especially Muslim ones - while continuing to welcome high levels of
net immigration into Britain of over 150,000 a year.
· Read the second part of David Goodhart's essay here. This article
appeared in the February issue of Prospect.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1154693,00.html
Discomfort of strangers (part two)
David Goodhart's essay challenging liberals to rethink their attitudes
to diversity and the welfare state has provoked a bitter debate among
progressive thinkers. Here, for the first time in a national
newspaper, we publish it in full. Join the debate by emailing
unlimited@guardianunlimited.co.uk Read the first part of David
Goodhart's essay here
Tuesday February 24, 2004
The Guardian
Supporters of large-scale immigration now focus on the quantifiable
economic benefits, appealing to the self-interest rather than the
idealism of the host population. While it is true that some
immigration is beneficial - neither the NHS nor the building industry
could survive without it - many of the claimed benefits of mass
immigration are challenged by economists such as Adair Turner and
Richard Layard. It is clear, for example, that immigration is no
long-term solution to an ageing population for the simple reason that
immigrants grow old, too. Keeping the current age structure constant
over the next 50 years, and assuming today's birth rate, would require
60m immigrants. Managing an ageing society requires a package of later
retirement, rising productivity and limited immigration. Large-scale
immigration of unskilled workers does allow native workers to bypass
the dirtiest and least rewarding jobs but it also increases
inequality, does little for per capita growth, and skews benefits in
the host population to employers and the better-off.
But large-scale immigration, especially if it happens rapidly, is not
just about economics; it is about those less tangible things to do
with identity and mutual obligation - which have been eroded from
other directions, too. It can also create real - as opposed to just
imagined - conflicts of interest. One example is the
immigration-related struggles over public housing in many of Britain's
big cities in the 1970s and 1980s. In places such as London's East
End, the right to a decent council house had always been regarded as
part of the inheritance of the respectable working class.
When immigrants began to arrive in the 1960s they did not have the
contacts to get on the housing list and so often ended up in
low-quality private housing. Many people saw the injustice of this and
decided to change the rules: henceforth the criterion of universal
need came to supplant good contacts. So if a Bangladeshi couple with
children were in poor accommodation they would qualify for a certain
number of housing points, allowing them to jump ahead of young local
white couples who had been on the list for years. This was, of course,
unpopular with many whites. Similar clashes between group-based
notions of justice and universally applied human rights are
unavoidable in welfare states with increasingly diverse people.
The "thickest" solidarities are now often found among ethnic minority
groups themselves in response to real or perceived discrimination.
This can be another source of resentment for poor whites who look on
enviously from their own fragmented neighbourhoods as minorities
recreate some of the mutual support and sense of community that was
once a feature of British working-class life. Paradoxically, it may be
this erosion of feelings of mutuality among the white majority in
Britain that has made it easier to absorb minorities. The degree of
antagonism between groups is proportional to the degree of cooperation
within groups. Relative to the other big European nations, the British
sense of national culture and solidarity has arguably been rather weak
- diluted by class, empire, the four different nations within the
state, the north-south divide, and even the long shadow of American
culture. That weakness of national solidarity, exemplified by the
"stand-offishness" of suburban England, may have created a bulwark
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