| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JPG" |
| Date: |
27 Jul 2004 07:02:07 AM |
| Object: |
OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives - including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close contest
Sunday July 25, 2004
The Observer
'The world is watching,' chanted the anti-Vietnam war protesters at the 1968
Democratic party convention in Chicago as riot police bashed them into
submission. But it is this November's presidential election which will grip
global attention as never before.
Yet the world will not be voting. If it were, Democrat John Kerry would be
elected by an avalanche. Even in Britain, where pro-US sentiment remains strong,
voters prefer Kerry to Bush by five to one.
Instead, Kerry must take his chances with a US electorate polarised as never
before. His well-wishers around the world will be as impotent as football fans
watching a big game.
As the Democrats meet in Boston they must fear that Kerry's global support will
prove a handicap rather than a boon. President Bush wears his global notoriety
as a badge of pride - telling America that he will do what he thinks right
without any 'permission slip' from the UN. More crudely, a key argument in the
Republican armoury is that the challenger speaks French, which must surely make
him a suspect potential leader of the free world.
Can those of us outside the US who believe the world needs Kerry to win do
anything useful? The same principle that should underpin any 'humanitarian
intervention' - such as in Bosnia, Rwanda or Sudan - can apply: to ask 'what do
the people on whose behalf we would intervene want us to do, or not do, to help
them'. We should ask progressive Americans what would help.
They would probably tell us that anti-Bush sentiment which can be portrayed as
anti-American would play into the President's hands. The US public is often
stereotyped as insular and inward-looking. But the information revolution has
made the story more complex. Millions of Americans regularly use the BBC website
and other international news sources: strikingly, the Guardian and The Observer
are read, taking print and web together, by more Americans than Britons. But
these Americans are no doubt already skewed towards an internationalist and
pro-Kerry position.
To reach out further, should we not be organising more mass demos in national
capitals this autumn - not just opposing Bush, but expressing support for a
better America? The role of global public opinion should not be underestimated.
But there are probably only a handful of foreigners who could play a significant
role in the US election.
The most dangerous is Osama bin Laden. Most independent observers believe that,
if alive, Osama will be rooting for Dubya. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld have been
good for business if you are an Islamist extremist looking to make the 'clash of
civilisations' a reality. After the 'intervention' in Spain's election with the
Madrid bombing, one fear is that another atrocity would shore up Bush. We can
only hope that the democratic process will not be distorted.
Then there is President Chirac of France. He could publicly and fulsomely
endorse Bush and throw the Republican campaign into a deep strategic confusion.
Finally, there is Tony Blair's dilemma. His shoulder-to-shoulder support for
America has made him the one foreign statesman whose views could genuinely
influence voters. His official neutrality may keep open the option of being
either man's best friend when the election is over, but it risks Blair being
central to the Republican TV spots.
So how could Blair make a pro-Kerry preference known without breaching
diplomatic protocol? Where better for this staunch pro-American to find a way
out than in The West Wing ? When Martin Sheen's fictional President Bartlet
faces a similar problem, he 'accidentally' speaks to a TV interviewer after an
interview while the studio red light and microphones are still on. It can happen
so easily - remember John Major's 'bastards' comment or Ronald Reagan's 'Let's
bomb Russia'. This might be the ideal time for Teflon Tony to come unstuck.
· Sunder Katwala is general secretary of the Fabian Society
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
27 Jul 2004 07:16:32 AM |
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JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives - including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
27 Jul 2004 08:06:00 AM |
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"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:41064790$0$6451$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives -
including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close
contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
Just curious: are you using the term fascist as a hyperbole,
or do you actually believe he subscribes to the pre-WWII
beliefs of that group? I have no desire to defend those who
led the world into one of most foolish and dangerous conflicts
since Viet Nam, but I haven't heard anything that would
justify labeling him an actual fascist. It is true, of
course, that the US media has been pretty tightly controlled
by political conservatives who fear free exchange of
information for more than a decade now, and it's possible
we've been fed a sanitized version of Tony Blair, GWB's good
friend.
--
Marvin
To reply, burn off fog.
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
27 Jul 2004 02:28:21 PM |
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"Marvin" <marvin2@fogstarband.net> wrote in message news:<alsNc.902$VQ1.163@fe25.usenetserver.com>...
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:41064790$0$6451$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives -
including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close
contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
Just curious: are you using the term fascist as a hyperbole,
or do you actually believe he subscribes to the pre-WWII
beliefs of that group? I have no desire to defend those who
led the world into one of most foolish and dangerous conflicts
since Viet Nam, but I haven't heard anything that would
justify labeling him an actual fascist. It is true, of
course, that the US media has been pretty tightly controlled
by political conservatives who fear free exchange of
information for more than a decade now, and it's possible
we've been fed a sanitized version of Tony Blair, GWB's good
friend.
Try http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=693f09c6.0306251800.69aa6912%40posting.google.com
.
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
27 Jul 2004 03:15:22 PM |
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"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0407271128.6d9ed93@posting.google.com...
"Marvin" <marvin2@fogstarband.net> wrote in message
news:<alsNc.902$VQ1.163@fe25.usenetserver.com>...
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:41064790$0$6451$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which
progressives -
including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close
contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
Just curious: are you using the term fascist as a
hyperbole,
or do you actually believe he subscribes to the pre-WWII
beliefs of that group? I have no desire to defend those
who
led the world into one of most foolish and dangerous
conflicts
since Viet Nam, but I haven't heard anything that would
justify labeling him an actual fascist. It is true, of
course, that the US media has been pretty tightly
controlled
by political conservatives who fear free exchange of
information for more than a decade now, and it's possible
we've been fed a sanitized version of Tony Blair, GWB's
good
friend.
Try
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=693f09c6.0306251800.69aa6912%40posting.google.com
Interesting.
--
Marvin
To reply, burn off fog.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
28 Jul 2004 10:02:26 AM |
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maff wrote:
"Marvin" <marvin2@fogstarband.net> wrote in message news:<alsNc.902$VQ1.163@fe25.usenetserver.com>...
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:41064790$0$6451$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives -
including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close
contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
Just curious: are you using the term fascist as a hyperbole,
or do you actually believe he subscribes to the pre-WWII
beliefs of that group? I have no desire to defend those who
led the world into one of most foolish and dangerous conflicts
since Viet Nam, but I haven't heard anything that would
justify labeling him an actual fascist. It is true, of
course, that the US media has been pretty tightly controlled
by political conservatives who fear free exchange of
information for more than a decade now, and it's possible
we've been fed a sanitized version of Tony Blair, GWB's good
friend.
Try http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=693f09c6.0306251800.69aa6912%40posting.google.com
Yip that about sums it up.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
27 Jul 2004 08:39:38 AM |
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Marvin wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:41064790$0$6451$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives -
including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close
contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
Just curious: are you using the term fascist as a hyperbole,
or do you actually believe he subscribes to the pre-WWII
beliefs of that group?
Yip..
Fascism........ often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or
regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above
the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government
headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social
regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Thats Blair !
I have no desire to defend those who
led the world into one of most foolish and dangerous conflicts
since Viet Nam, but I haven't heard anything that would
justify labeling him an actual fascist. It is true, of
course, that the US media has been pretty tightly controlled
by political conservatives who fear free exchange of
information for more than a decade now, and it's possible
we've been fed a sanitized version of Tony Blair, GWB's good
friend.
try http://ww1.sundayherald.com/43594
My way or the Highway !
No democracy allowed under Blair.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
27 Jul 2004 09:45:26 AM |
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On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:39:38 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Marvin wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:41064790$0$6451$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives -
including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close
contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
Just curious: are you using the term fascist as a hyperbole,
or do you actually believe he subscribes to the pre-WWII
beliefs of that group?
Yip..
Fascism........ often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or
regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above
the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government
headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social
regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Thats Blair !
If I may say so, what you have just written is complete bollocks.
Tony Blair may be many things and I am not an apologist for him, but he is
definitely not a Fascist and New Labour is not Fascism by any definition, and
certainly not yours.
I have no desire to defend those who
led the world into one of most foolish and dangerous conflicts
since Viet Nam, but I haven't heard anything that would
justify labeling him an actual fascist. It is true, of
course, that the US media has been pretty tightly controlled
by political conservatives who fear free exchange of
information for more than a decade now, and it's possible
we've been fed a sanitized version of Tony Blair, GWB's good
friend.
try http://ww1.sundayherald.com/43594
My way or the Highway !
No democracy allowed under Blair.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
27 Jul 2004 10:13:32 AM |
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JPG wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:39:38 +0100, Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Marvin wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:41064790$0$6451$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
Sunder Katwala suggests a few ways in which progressives -
including Tony Blair
- can sway the US electorate in an increasingly close
contest
Tony Blair isn't a 'Progressive' he's a fascist.
Just curious: are you using the term fascist as a hyperbole,
or do you actually believe he subscribes to the pre-WWII
beliefs of that group?
Yip..
Fascism........ often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or
regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above
the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government
headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social
regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Thats Blair !
If I may say so, what you have just written is complete bollocks.
Tony Blair may be many things and I am not an apologist for him, but he is
definitely not a Fascist and New Labour is not Fascism by any definition, and
certainly not yours.
New Labour are a bunch of right-wing cowards.
No-one in the party has the guts to stand up to it's dictator.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: How the world can give Kerry a helping hand |
28 Jul 2004 09:09:17 PM |
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On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:02:07 +0100, JPG wrote:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1268662,00.html
How the world can give Kerry a helping hand
***** them all.
[]
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