| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
18 May 2005 03:39:31 AM |
| Object: |
OT: Islam Karimov |
He's our sonofabitch
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1486298,00.html
The west's support for the Uzbek regime exposes its destructive
reliance on despots and tyrants
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday May 18, 2005
The Guardian
Think of it as the sonofabitch school of foreign policy. Legend has it
that when Franklin D Roosevelt was confronted with the multiple
cruelties of his ally, the Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza, he
replied: "He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch."
More than 60 years on, that serves as a pretty good expression of
American, and therefore British, attitudes to Islam Karimov, the tyrant
of Tashkent who has ruled the central Asian republic of Uzbekistan
since the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991.
Jonathan Freedland
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/dae1106a5d34b02a
Islam Karimov
http://news.google.com/news?q=Islam%20Karimov&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=Islam+Karimov&num=100&hl=en&lr=&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=Islam+Karimov&btnG=Search+Directory&hl=en&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=Islam%20Karimov&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=d&tab=wg
.
|
|
| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 04:08:32 AM |
|
|
On 18 May 2005 01:39:31 -0700 the ET form known as
maff<maff91@yahoo.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse of
deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
He's our sonofabitch
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1486298,00.html
The west's support for the Uzbek regime exposes its destructive
reliance on despots and tyrants
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday May 18, 2005
The Guardian
Think of it as the sonofabitch school of foreign policy. Legend has it
that when Franklin D Roosevelt was confronted with the multiple
cruelties of his ally, the Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza, he
replied: "He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch."
More than 60 years on, that serves as a pretty good expression of
American, and therefore British, attitudes to Islam Karimov, the tyrant
of Tashkent who has ruled the central Asian republic of Uzbekistan
since the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991.
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy. So many
similarities between Karimov and Hussein before he became a "bad boy".
An ally in the war against an abstract noun who just happens to boil
opponents alive. Just listened to an interview of Graig Murray the
British ambassador to Uzbekistan who told the truth about the west's
favourite strong man of the moment and lost his job for doing so.
I attended a talk by Taraq Ali gave last night in Adelaide. He is a
very eloquent exponent of truth.
--
Remove YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 06:30:41 AM |
|
|
Meteorite Debris <epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote in
news:MPG.1cf6df77ba12e4498a18b@news.optusnet.com.au:
On 18 May 2005 01:39:31 -0700 the ET form known as
maff<maff91@yahoo.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse of
deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
He's our sonofabitch
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1486298,00.html
The west's support for the Uzbek regime exposes its destructive
reliance on despots and tyrants
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday May 18, 2005
The Guardian
Think of it as the sonofabitch school of foreign policy. Legend has
it
that when Franklin D Roosevelt was confronted with the multiple
cruelties of his ally, the Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza, he
replied: "He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch."
More than 60 years on, that serves as a pretty good expression of
American, and therefore British, attitudes to Islam Karimov, the
tyrant
of Tashkent who has ruled the central Asian republic of Uzbekistan
since the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991.
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy.
Except for one minor problem. The US has been supporting pro-democracy
movements in Uzbekistan.
So many
similarities between Karimov and Hussein before he became a "bad boy".
An ally in the war against an abstract noun who just happens to boil
opponents alive. Just listened to an interview of Graig Murray the
British ambassador to Uzbekistan who told the truth about the west's
favourite strong man of the moment and lost his job for doing so.
Ah, another "whistle-blower" who cannot possibly have an agenda.
I attended a talk by Taraq Ali gave last night in Adelaide. He is a
very eloquent exponent of truth.
You forgot the quote marks around "truth" there.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ike" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 09:02:10 AM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:1116502243.f870bdef797454e81694cba792f5aa24@teranews...
Meteorite Debris <epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote in
news:MPG.1cf6df77ba12e4498a18b@news.optusnet.com.au:
On 18 May 2005 01:39:31 -0700 the ET form known as
maff<maff91@yahoo.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse of
deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
He's our sonofabitch
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1486298,00.html
The west's support for the Uzbek regime exposes its destructive
reliance on despots and tyrants
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday May 18, 2005
The Guardian
Think of it as the sonofabitch school of foreign policy. Legend has
it
that when Franklin D Roosevelt was confronted with the multiple
cruelties of his ally, the Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza, he
replied: "He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch."
More than 60 years on, that serves as a pretty good expression of
American, and therefore British, attitudes to Islam Karimov, the
tyrant
of Tashkent who has ruled the central Asian republic of Uzbekistan
since the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991.
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy.
Except for one minor problem. The US has been supporting pro-democracy
movements in Uzbekistan.
So many
similarities between Karimov and Hussein before he became a "bad boy".
An ally in the war against an abstract noun who just happens to boil
opponents alive. Just listened to an interview of Graig Murray the
British ambassador to Uzbekistan who told the truth about the west's
favourite strong man of the moment and lost his job for doing so.
Ah, another "whistle-blower" who cannot possibly have an agenda.
I attended a talk by Taraq Ali gave last night in Adelaide. He is a
very eloquent exponent of truth.
You forgot the quote marks around "truth" there.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
That's because there are lies in what you say, but you haven't said enough
in this post to find out what lying policy you are protecting, unless it's
the war in Iraq, which may have been a good idea on paper but was badly
executed by incompetent fascist ideologues. Such people are not fit to run
any country much less the USA and ought to be impeached or voted out of
office, and Bush may already have been voted out of office, but we'll never
know for sure.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
20 May 2005 04:20:21 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:30:41 GMT the ET form known as Fred
Stone<fstone69@earthling.com> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Meteorite Debris <epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote in
news:MPG.1cf6df77ba12e4498a18b@news.optusnet.com.au:
On 18 May 2005 01:39:31 -0700 the ET form known as
maff<maff91@yahoo.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse of
deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
He's our sonofabitch
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1486298,00.html
The west's support for the Uzbek regime exposes its destructive
reliance on despots and tyrants
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday May 18, 2005
The Guardian
Think of it as the sonofabitch school of foreign policy. Legend has
it
that when Franklin D Roosevelt was confronted with the multiple
cruelties of his ally, the Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza, he
replied: "He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch."
More than 60 years on, that serves as a pretty good expression of
American, and therefore British, attitudes to Islam Karimov, the
tyrant
of Tashkent who has ruled the central Asian republic of Uzbekistan
since the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991.
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy.
Except for one minor problem. The US has been supporting pro-democracy
movements in Uzbekistan.
Incorrect. The US has been propping up Karimov. Setting military
bases. Turning a blind eye to his human rights abuses. He has been
called him an ally in the war against an adjective.
Karimov is today what Saddam was in the 80s. A darling of US foreign
policy. Karimov is where he is is today because of US foreign policy.
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. The unofficial US State Department
mission statement. Remember that Afghan terrorists today were made by
US foreign policy back in the 80s.
--
Remove YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Guardian Pegasus" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 04:03:44 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:38:32 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy. So many
Better the devil we know and can exercise some control over. Do you
really think that without western involvement, muslim countries would
suddenly blossom into peaceful, democratic, progressive nations?
Well here's a newsflash... muslims don't want democracy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 06:27:02 AM |
|
|
Guardian Pegasus <Pope.Been-a-
*****.Adolf.Panzer.Rat.Nazinger.Torquemada.II@holysee.va> wrote in
news:iflo815omq82b0dtcj6qboklpe2ee26t6v@4ax.com:
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:38:32 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy. So many
Better the devil we know and can exercise some control over. Do you
really think that without western involvement, muslim countries would
suddenly blossom into peaceful, democratic, progressive nations?
Well here's a newsflash... muslims don't want democracy.
One small correction - muslim extremist dictators don't want democracy.
They aren't giving their people any choice in the matter.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guardian Pegasus" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 07:26:22 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:27:02 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
One small correction - muslim extremist dictators don't want democracy.
One problem with that theory... the 'moderate muslim majority' doesn't
exist. Most muslims are extremists. They're fundamentalists, opposed
to all change, they accept the use of violence to further their
religion, they support killing civilians and so on...
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 07:48:07 AM |
|
|
Guardian Pegasus
<Pope.Been-a-*****.Adolf.Panzer.Rat.Nazinger.Torquemada.II@holysee.va>
wrote in news:k21p81dego0smg4g6vd4esool2n7mqfa91@4ax.com:
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:27:02 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
One small correction - muslim extremist dictators don't want
democracy.
One problem with that theory... the 'moderate muslim majority' doesn't
exist.
How do you know this? Taken any votes lately?
Most muslims are extremists. They're fundamentalists, opposed
to all change, they accept the use of violence to further their
religion, they support killing civilians and so on...
Before the elections, we all heard the gloom-and-doom predictions of an
impending Iran-style theocratic Mullahcracy. That prediction didn't turn
out to be true. Not even close. The extremist element there is a *very*
small minority, unfortunately very well armed and supported by outside
forces.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guardian Pegasus" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
22 May 2005 12:34:54 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:48:07 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
One problem with that theory... the 'moderate muslim majority' doesn't
exist.
How do you know this? Taken any votes lately?
Actually, yes. Polls have been held many times, plus, I live among
them, and they show the same thing over and over; acceptance of the
use of terror against civilian targets against perceived enemies of
islam.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
22 May 2005 06:06:03 AM |
|
|
Guardian Pegasus
<Pope.Been-a-*****.Adolf.Panzer.Rat.Nazinger.Torquemada.II@holysee.va>
wrote in news:ud6091526d4v9i6ttjuo9svnj0vme20r9h@4ax.com:
On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:48:07 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
One problem with that theory... the 'moderate muslim majority'
doesn't exist.
How do you know this? Taken any votes lately?
Actually, yes. Polls have been held many times, plus, I live among
them, and they show the same thing over and over; acceptance of the
use of terror against civilian targets against perceived enemies of
islam.
What about Turkey? Iraq outside of the Sunni triangle? Indonesia?
Hopelessness in the face of overwhelming force isn't quite the same as
acceptance of terrorism.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
19 May 2005 03:11:06 PM |
|
|
Guardian Pegasus wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:38:32 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy. So many
Better the devil we know and can exercise some control over. Do you
really think that without western involvement, muslim countries would
suddenly blossom into peaceful, democratic, progressive nations?
Similar apologetics was also used during the Cold War/ Vietnam War.
Mahmood Mamdani
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/8a8cd2ec6c4e1f2d
Well here's a newsflash... muslims don't want democracy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guardian Pegasus" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
22 May 2005 12:38:51 AM |
|
|
On 19 May 2005 13:11:06 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Similar apologetics was also used during the Cold War/ Vietnam War.
Indeed. And the world should have stepped in the second Saddam went
out of line and started murdering innocent people as the insane
***** he is.
.
|
|
|
| User: "maff" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
22 May 2005 03:20:44 AM |
|
|
Guardian Pegasus wrote:
On 19 May 2005 13:11:06 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Similar apologetics was also used during the Cold War/ Vietnam War.
Indeed. And the world should have stepped in the second Saddam went
out of line and started murdering innocent people as the insane
***** he is.
So are you saying that Iran and China are next?
Iraq first, Iran and China next
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=Iraq%20Iran%20China%20author%3Amaff%20author%3Amaff&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&scoring=r&tab=wg
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
20 May 2005 04:41:07 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:03:44 +0200 the ET form known as Guardian
Pegasus<Pope.Been-a-
*****.Adolf.Panzer.Rat.Nazinger.Torquemada.II@holysee.va> sent a radio
signal across the vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.-
-._.
On Thu, 19 May 2005 18:38:32 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
Making tomorrow's terrorists today. Usual US policy. So many
Better the devil we know and can exercise some control over. Do you
really think that without western involvement, muslim countries would
suddenly blossom into peaceful, democratic, progressive nations?
Well here's a newsflash... muslims don't want democracy.
Here's another newsflash. The only free press in the middle east
outside Israel, al Jazeewa, is actually a target of US military ops.
Its' offices were bombed in Afghanistan and shelled in Baghdad. That's
because unembeded journalists are actually targets of the Pentagon.
The Italian journalist and her bodyguard are an example of this
policy.
Here's another newsflash. The al Howza newspaper was closed down by
Bremmer. Its' crime was to criticise US occupation of Iraq.
Here's another newsflash. Democracy imposed topdown from outside is a
contradiction in terms. But that doesn't matter because that's only
the cover story. Iraq must be made safe for Halliburton and Bectel -
not the Iraqis.
But "better the devil you know". Such a devil was once Saddam Hussein.
The US and Britain even knew about his gassing of the Kurds before
"good boy" Saddam became the US's fav "bad boy" and they said
absolutely nothing. Comes down to your "better the devil" *****.
Karimov is a hideous monster, a thug, pouring boiling water down the
throats of political prisoners, boiling others alive. He is everything
Saddam Hussein was. But what do you say but "better the devil". This
is deeply deeply deeply unethical on your part. How would you like a
member of your family to be tortured in this way. Out of sight out of
mind and it's over there, let me avert my eyes, nothing to do with me,
I'm all right Jack blah blah blah. This "better the devil" ***** is
psychopathic and cynical.
--
Remove YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guardian Pegasus" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Islam Karimov |
22 May 2005 12:37:51 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 20 May 2005 19:11:07 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<epicurus1@YOUR_SHOESoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
Here's another newsflash. The only free press in the middle east
outside Israel, al Jazeewa, is actually a target of US military ops.
That's a funny idea of 'free press' you have. Free, sure, but no more
so than say the Nazi eastern front radio broadcasting service.
Its' offices were bombed in Afghanistan and shelled in Baghdad. That's
because unembeded journalists are actually targets of the Pentagon.
They elected to put themselves in the line of fire. Potential enemy
communications are a primary target in any modern military campaign.
The Italian journalist and her bodyguard are an example of this
policy.
A preposterous and unfounded lie. Triggerhappy 19 year olds do not
automatically equate an organized campaign against foreign
journalists. Take off that tin foil hat and let your brain cool for a
minute.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
